Help! women's fiction

I am embarrassed to say I don't know those books. Woman's fic isn't used to shelve books--in my experience it is a term that covers romance, chick lit and mainstream books with empowered heroines. see: http://www.writing-world.com/romance/craig.shtml

"Women's fiction" is kind of broad I think. I've head the new LBF book "Current Wisdom" classified as such. It's about a woman's journey to self-discovery (wow, doesn't that sound generic?). I've also read some "chick-lit" - not romance, more of literary fiction aimed at women.

Personally, I like Jennifer Weiner - I think she's fabulous. Try "Good in Bed"; couldn't put it down.

BellaSignora said:

Hi.
I need help in understanding women's fiction, because we don't have such a classification in Italian bookstores.
I would really appreciate if you could suggest me the best novels in this genre.

Some novels *I* think are WF:
Janet Fitch, White Oleander
Ann Tyler, Breathing lessons
Joyce Carol Oates, We were the Mulvaneys
Nick Hornby: How to be good.
Am I correct?

Thanks!

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Probably correct, but I hope not. I loved these books. I consider them more mainstream/literary than woman's fiction.

Jamesaritchie said:

Probably correct, but I hope not. I loved these books. I consider them more mainstream/literary than woman's fiction.

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Man, that sure comes across as arrogant and sexist.

God forbid you be caught dead reading something called Women's Fiction, huh, James? As long as it's not called that, it's okay to read it. But if, by some quirk of fate, it IS Women's Fiction, ooooo, look out. Tainted. Boy, you sure HOPE that wasn't what you were reading, and worse yet, enjoying. EEEEK!

I don't get it.

Is this like "real men don't wear pink?"

Instead of "don't judge a book by its cover," do we need "don't judge a book by its marketing label?"

What happend to "a rose by any other name...?"

Belle, def. go read that article veinglory posted - it's a good one about Women's Fiction and defining it.

Women's Fiction is a broad term, and some people do lump romance as one of the subcategories of it. Others use the term Women's Fiction to describe stories that aren't romance, but are meant to be stories about women's journeys in life. One great example that I recently read was Angry Housewives Eating Bon Bons by Lorna Landvik. (And her other books, too, I'd imagine, although I haven't had the pleasure of reading those yet.)

Kristen Hannah is an excellent writer whose books I would classify as more Women's Fiction. Stephanie Gertler, too, although I don't know exactly how Stephanie would classify her stuff.

I'd go so far as to say Nicholas Spark's books are Women's Fiction. (So does that article posted.) And James Patterson recently joined RWA (in 2004) -- make of that what you will.

Even some of the new stories coming out of Harlequin are more Women's Fiction than romance. The new Next line, for example. Not centered on a romance, although there might be a romantic subplot in the story. Those books are more about the NEXT thing that happens in a woman's life. I've heard good things about some of these new books. Again, I haven't had a chance to try any of them yet.

This is why the RWA group added a new category to the RITA contest. The new category is called Mainstream with Romantic Elements. That allows a whole host of other possibilities into the contest.

Hope that helps some!

Susan G.

Susan Gable said:

Man, that sure comes across as arrogant and sexist.

God forbid you be caught dead reading something called Women's Fiction, huh, James? As long as it's not called that, it's okay to read it. But if, by some quirk of fate, it IS Women's Fiction, ooooo, look out. Tainted. Boy, you sure HOPE that wasn't what you were reading, and worse yet, enjoying. EEEEK!

I don't get it.

Is this like "real men don't wear pink?"

Susan G.

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That's because it is arrogant and sexist. And as for pink, real men wear whatever they like and dare anyone to tell them not to. I used to love putting on a hot pink shirt and walking past a construction site.

Seriously, though, that wasn't what I meant, though I can see how it came across that way. Need to be more careful with my wording. I meant the opposite of how it came across. I used to belong to the RWA, as well, and still would if I could justify the expense. Membership comes with what I think is one of the best writing magazines out there. I also routinely read Nora Roberts, Heather Graham Pozzessere, Marsha Canham, (No one in any genre writes description as well as Canham. Talk about being able to visualize a setting!), and a couple of other romance writers, and do so in public. Anyone who doesn't like it can say so.

But there is a kind of fiction out there now that's often called "Women's fiction" that is intended to be read almost exclusively by women, and it would be very sad to think that a lot of men aren't reading the books BellaSignora listed. Books like that, as well as books by such good writers as Nicholas Sparks, should be people fiction, not women's fiction or men's fiction, and should be read by men and women alike.

Well I'd rather have my book classified as Mainstream/Literary fiction rather than Woman's fiction... so I knew what James meant.

jsando said:

Well I'd rather have my book classified as Mainstream/Literary fiction rather than Woman's fiction... so I knew what James meant.

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So would I, and I knew what he meant, too.

However, if someone asked me if P.K. Dick was sci-fi, and I said, "I sure hope not! I LOVE P.K. Dick!" it might sound like I, as a reader, didn't want to be associated with those icky people who read sci-fi. (I DO read sci-fi, so this is totally hypothetical.) Now, substitute "sci-fi" with a different genre. And pretend for a minute that the genre, by name, was associated with a certain group of people. You can understand why someone in that group might be bothered by me saying that.

He clarified what he meant, and it turned out to be exactly what I thought it was. But I just wanted to say that I can understand why Susan reacted the way she did.

Authors like Rosamunde Pilcher and Maeve Binchy immediately spring to mind. Their books have female heroines and are about life journeys with the rites of passage women go through, marriage and children and female friendships playing a prominent role. They arn't necessarily romances, but they are romantic; with strong love stories and high emotion. Some are three-handkerchief tales.
They are targeted for the female market. Their covers and titles reflect this, and expecially the blurbs and jacket copy, which will emphasize love, romance, relationships.

And it's attitudes like that, James, that keep authors off of Oprah, LOL.

Jamesaritchie said:

That's because it is arrogant and sexist. And as for pink, real men wear whatever they like and dare anyone to tell them not to. I used to love putting on a hot pink shirt and walking past a construction site.

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My husband looks great in a pink shirt.

Books like that, as well as books by such good writers as Nicholas Sparks, should be people fiction, not women's fiction or men's fiction, and should be read by men and women alike.

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I agree, and I'd take that arguement to the point that I think ALL fiction should be "people fiction" and read by whomever wants to read it.

Taking the pink shirt analogy, real men read whatever they want to read and they don't care about what people think. Or what label is on the spine. There are even men who write romance. (True HEA romance.) My dad loves romantic suspense books. (And he even reads my books. In fact, he was complaining yesterday because my mom wouldn't let him read the signed copy I'd given them because Dad is a spine-breaker and tends to eat when he reads, making a mess of the books.)

If you look at reading statistics, you'll see that women overwhelm the number of men who read fiction. Hence the fact that appealing to women is a good marketing decision. I kind of think that might be one of the factors that led James Patterson to join RWA.

Marketing plays a huge role these days.

Susan G.

Susan Gable said:

If you look at reading statistics, you'll see that women overwhelm the number of men who read fiction. Hence the fact that appealing to women is a good marketing decision. I kind of think that might be one of the factors that led James Patterson to join RWA.

Marketing plays a huge role these days.

Susan G.

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Well, if you take romance novels out of the mix, women really don't read much more, if any more, than men. Romance is a huge, huge genre, and 90% of the readers in it are women. The percentage is also befuddled by the fact that if a women buys a book, she's counted as the reader. Trouble is, about twenty percent of the books men read are bought by women specifically for a man.

Marketing to women may be a good idea. Marketing exclusively to women is a dumb idea.

As for men who write romance, I know. I wrote one once myself.

Celia Cyanide said:

He clarified what he meant, and it turned out to be exactly what I thought it was. But I just wanted to say that I can understand why Susan reacted the way she did.

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So can I. Very poor wording. Though at the same time, I don't react that way when someone takes a crack at westerns. People have every right to dislike westerns, or to think "women's fiction" bites, or to think fantasy stinks, or to think romance novels are formulaic, or to think mysteries are for clowns. You don't have to agree, but you aren't going to change anything by arguing about it.

I tend to go along with Sturgeon's Law: "Ninety percent of everything is crud."

This applies to women's fiction, romance novels, westerns, mysteries, fantasy, and you name it.

But the top ten percent of all novels and all writers in any genre are wonderful.

Christine N. said:

And it's attitudes like that, James, that keep authors off of Oprah, LOL.

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Rats. I'd love to be on Oprah. Even without a book. Am I the only one who thinks she's hot?

Christine N. said:

"Women's fiction" is kind of broad I think. I've head the new LBF book "Current Wisdom" classified as such. It's about a woman's journey to self-discovery (wow, doesn't that sound generic?). I've also read some "chick-lit" - not romance, more of literary fiction aimed at women.

Personally, I like Jennifer Weiner - I think she's fabulous. Try "Good in Bed"; couldn't put it down.

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I think there's a line of difference between women' fic and chick-lit. Jennifer Weiner is considered chick-lit -- usually lighter, contemporary, and about topics such as relationship, career, etc.

Women's fic, I believe, can be contemporary or historical or whatever, and are more serious/dramatic and deals with deeper issues such as family, abortion, aging, illness, marriage, raising children, parental issues, etc. Something like Beloved might be considered women's fic. The protagonist is almost always female. So, even though my book is about family, relationship, death, etc. since my protagonist is a male, it's not considered "women's fic."

p.s. real men wear pink and look good in it. Also, real men cry.

Jamesaritchie said:

So can I. Very poor wording. Though at the same time, I don't react that way when someone takes a crack at westerns.

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Yes, but westerns are not, by their name alone, connected with a certain group of people. I would not react that way if someone were to take a crack at Sci-Fi, either, but there is a difference. Anyone is allowed to say they don't like Women's Fiction. They should just maybe be a little careful how they say it. I hope that makes sense.

Celia Cyanide said:

Anyone is allowed to say they don't like Women's Fiction. They should just maybe be a little careful how they say it. I hope that makes sense.

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It makes perfect sense to me, Celia. <G>

James, darling, I don't always react "that way" when someone slams a genre. (My genre. <G>) I did give you a big smoochie the other day when you did it. (Your comment was something to the effect that the reason is was easy to get published in romance was because there was so much crap writing in romance.) You basically called me a lazy writer for saying I switch POV mid-scene sometimes. Remember that?

But, after a while, it gets old, and it gets under my skin. Being merely human, I can only ignore being prodded with a stick so many times. It wasn't so much what you said - it was the arrogance (which you admitted to) with which you said it. You did come across as someone who didn't want the books he'd enjoyed to "get cooties" by being associated with women's fiction.

I apologize if you feel I was arguing about your totally allowable opinion that women's fiction is 90% crap, like 90% of all other writing. Please feel free to continue on with your arrogance. I shall, in the future, attempt to do a better job of respecting your right to be arrogant.

I hope you, in the future, will overlook my tendency to sometimes get defensive after being prodded one too many times. Thanks!

Okay?

Have a productive day!

Susan G.

For anyone who's interested, there's an interesting blog article about the issue of women feeling freer to read more widely than men might sometimes dare.

It happens to be at a website called Smart Bi*ches Who Love Trashy Novels, so, be forewarned about that. They do have some very interesting, no-holds-barred discussions about things, including the fact that they're very vocal about the things they HATE in the "trashy novels" that they love. (Bad writing is def. one thing they hate.)

Be sure to read the comments, since they are a major portion of the actual discussion.

http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/you_read_like_a_girl/
Susan G.

My husband looks great in a pink shirt.

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At first, I thought that read "My husband looks great in a pink skirt."

Then I thought, that's interesting...

Not that guys wearing pink skirts is wrong...

I hate pink and never wear it.

Bella, if you go to the Romance board, Aunt Cathy has an excellent lecture series on Romance and various genres/subgenres that may be of some use to you.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=37

You might also want to check out any of Anita Shreve's books.