PDA

View Full Version : I Hate Duotrope


MattJ
03-24-2011, 03:19 AM
I know a lot of us here use Duotrope. Heck, I even donated money to them. But let me tell you why I hate Duotrope:

1. Wasted time. One day, I spent a few hours writing, editing, and rewriting a small flash piece. Then I spent two days straight on Duotrope looking for the perfect market. Oh, what's this editor's preference? Click here to find out? Certainly.

2. A new way to obsess. Before Duotrope, I could only obsess about my stories and how long they were out. Now, I can easily obsess over whether my stories are in the average acceptance range or average rejection range. I can obsess whether I'll get a rejection, a personalized rejection, or fall into that 2% non responsive category.

3. Under-reporting. I thought a 0.00003% acceptance rate was disheartening. Then I discovered that was considered "high for the market."

4. Weekly fiction digest. God forbid I go a day without checking Duotrope. Now they're invading my emails?

Oh, Duotrope.

Damian_Rucci
03-24-2011, 03:27 AM
yeah, duotrope is quite a calamity for free-time occasionally. I find myself doing what you said just reading over the markets for hours and hours on end.

Izz
03-24-2011, 03:32 AM
And don't forget: you can subscribe to an RSS feed that'll send reports of each response for the markets you currently have stories out to directly to your feed reader...

(i love duotrope so much--probably because i'm a stats man)

Nathaniel Katz
03-24-2011, 03:39 AM
I started submitted using duotrope. I honestly cannot imagine doing this without it, and I've donated twice.

Before I came here, I wasn't aware of the stats about how recent responses went out and stuff. Before that, I only checked every three or four days. Now I'm every day.

MJNL
03-24-2011, 03:45 AM
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Websites don't make people obsess, people make themselves obsess.

:)

Nathaniel Katz
03-24-2011, 03:47 AM
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Websites don't make people obsess, people make themselves obsess.

:)

So true.

*refreshes the Strange Horizons duotrope page*

*refreshes it again*

Aidan Watson-Morris
03-24-2011, 04:53 AM
The only time work of mine has been published, it's been because of Duotrope. But yeah, it's kind of incredibly addicting.

MattJ
03-24-2011, 05:23 AM
They say that if everyone only ponied up 5 dollars A YEAR they'd meet all their operating expenses. Crazy.

I started submitted using duotrope. I honestly cannot imagine doing this without it, and I've donated twice.

MattJ
03-24-2011, 05:25 AM
Strange Horizons was supposed to be down until 27 Mar. You know why they're back online? That's right. Duotrope said they were open, now they're open. :evil


*refreshes the Strange Horizons duotrope page*

Gray Rose
03-24-2011, 05:58 AM
So true.

*refreshes the Strange Horizons duotrope page*

*refreshes it again*

I'm doing that too right now. They are very much behind. I've never had such a long wait with them before, including on shortlisted "we almost bought this" and sold material.

Good luck to you!

Re: guns, etc. I love Duotrope but I would recommend against subscribing to the RSS and the digest. I don't get the digest. The refreshing is enough of a time sink imho. Your mileage may vary, obviously!

Gray Rose
03-24-2011, 06:00 AM
Strange Horizons was supposed to be down until 27 Mar. You know why they're back online? That's right. Duotrope said they were open, now they're open. :evil

Just saw this. They said "we'll reopen on or before March 27th." This is the before.

I don't understand this, considering the backlog.

russetpomme
03-24-2011, 06:31 AM
One of the main fiction editors at SH has been doing a lot of traveling recently, and I think they may be short-staffed on first readers (not entirely sure) but I know those guys work hard. I was a first reader for SH for two months last year and I just could NOT keep up and work at the same time. I loved it though, and the staff is just amazing.

I also have a Duotrope obsession and their RSS feed of responses to markets I'm currently submitted to is now one of my hourly web stops. It's kind of sick.

Gray Rose
03-24-2011, 06:39 AM
One of the main fiction editors at SH has been doing a lot of traveling recently, and I think they may be short-staffed on first readers (not entirely sure) but I know those guys work hard.

Oh, I'm not saying they're not working hard! They do an amazing job! I am just a bit perplexed as to why they reopened to submissions when they are still so much behind; I thought it would make sense to use these days to clear up the slush as much as possible. But that is, of course, their call.

The first reader situation does not really apply to me; I don't think I've been rejected by a first reader in the last two years (or gotten a form from SH, for that matter).

And yes, reading slush is intense. I could never read prose slush. Now, poetry slush is another matter :D

NicoleMD
03-24-2011, 06:43 AM
I totally hear you. When I get to obsessed with Doutrope, I change my password to something like N0wi3j20soi523, write it down and leave it in my desk at work. So it's safe, but I can't check it at home. If there's an emergency you can click the forgot my password option, so not a total fix, but it does make it a lot less easy to get distracted by response times.

Hmmm...speaking of which, I think it might be time for me to change my password again...

Nicole

Nathaniel Katz
03-24-2011, 06:57 AM
I've actually been meaning to apply to be a Strange Horizons slush reader, I've just been delaying because they might frown on doing so while under consideration.

MattJ
03-24-2011, 07:03 AM
20 stories a week? Wow, that's a lot.

I've actually been meaning to apply to be a Strange Horizons slush reader, I've just been delaying because they might frown on doing so while under consideration.

Nathaniel Katz
03-24-2011, 07:07 AM
20 stories a week? Wow, that's a lot.

It does sound like a lot of reading, but I think it'd be worth it for the experience. Besides, I read fast (about one to two hundred pages a day without stressing myself).

Damian_Rucci
03-24-2011, 07:07 AM
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Websites don't make people obsess, people make themselves obsess.

:)

haah too true

Gray Rose
03-24-2011, 07:34 AM
I totally hear you. When I get to obsessed with Doutrope, I change my password to something like N0wi3j20soi523, write it down and leave it in my desk at work. So it's safe, but I can't check it at home. If there's an emergency you can click the forgot my password option, so not a total fix, but it does make it a lot less easy to get distracted by response times.

Hmmm...speaking of which, I think it might be time for me to change my password again...

Nicole

but, but... you don't need to be logged in, in order to check the latest responses page... *shifty eyes*

alexshvartsman
03-24-2011, 08:20 AM
Rose,

I don't think they are that far behind, except maybe on the short-listed material. I just had a 30-day rejection from them (which did not get past the slush reader, sadly).

Izz
03-24-2011, 08:23 AM
I used to get past SH's slush readers. Not anymore, it seems. Won't stop me from trying, though.

Gray Rose
03-24-2011, 09:22 AM
Rose,
I don't think they are that far behind, except maybe on the short-listed material. I just had a 30-day rejection from them (which did not get past the slush reader, sadly).

Thank you. And better luck next time!

BTW, Alex, did you ever hear back from Apex? Cat was clearing her slush recently...

I am checking the SH submission status page and I note that their oldest story was submitted 79 days ago (http://www.strangehorizons.com/guidelines/fiction-status.shtml). I submitted later than that, although not by much. Which is to say, crickets.

I really like this story of mine, and if SH doesn't want it, I have other places in mind. It's a new one!

I used to get past SH's slush readers. Not anymore, it seems. Won't stop me from trying, though.

Heh. I wonder what happened.

See, in my case I just don't think it's merit; simply I am a contributor, and I suspect contributors bypass the slush at SH? No idea.

NicoleMD
03-24-2011, 10:53 AM
but, but... you don't need to be logged in, in order to check the latest responses page... *shifty eyes*

You're right. I'd better go check if SH posted any more responses since four hours ago!

Nicole

Regan Leigh
03-24-2011, 11:04 AM
And don't forget: you can subscribe to an RSS feed that'll send reports of each response for the markets you currently have stories out to directly to your feed reader...

(i love duotrope so much--probably because i'm a stats man)

1) I love this thread.
2) *jawdrops* RSS feed?

I better run away now before you guys make my addiction worse. ;)

scottVee
03-24-2011, 12:42 PM
Funny thread. I'll second the "Websites don't make people obsess" note. I've used duotrope (and ralan) to find markets for years. I couldn't care less where I stack up against anyone, or how the numbers fall out, though I do care slightly about reported response times and don't bother with notoriously slow responders. I certainly wouldn't waste time entering all of my 1,000+ stories and poems in their database. I just check for markets when I have a specific piece that doesn't fit my usual targets. Done.

Polenth
03-24-2011, 01:15 PM
I used to get past SH's slush readers. Not anymore, it seems. Won't stop me from trying, though.

How do you know? I've always assumed forms meant it didn't get through the first reader, but maybe that's not how they do it.

I've had one personal rejection from SH. I get the feeling my writing isn't literary enough for their tastes, as I'm much more plain spoken than most of the stories they publish. I still send them stuff though, on the off-chance.

Izz
03-24-2011, 01:22 PM
How do you know? I've always assumed forms meant it didn't get through the first reader, but maybe that's not how they do it.My latest rejections have had slush reader signatures rather than editor signatures, though it's possible slushies signing an R is relatively new.

Manuel Royal
03-24-2011, 08:58 PM
I've found Duotrope very useful. Give 'em a few bucks each month.

Polenth
03-24-2011, 09:06 PM
My latest rejections have had slush reader signatures rather than editor signatures, though it's possible slushies signing an R is relatively new.

Interesting. I looked through my rejections. From the ones I still have, they all have an editor name on them. Including one I got yesterday. I didn't think that was significant, because it'd be odd for all the stories to get past the first readers.

Maybe it was a recent change and the last story happened to be one that got a bit further. Or maybe slushers have always been signing and I never knew. Now I'm going to go all rejectomancy on it.

MatthewWuertz
03-25-2011, 05:11 AM
One of my favorite parts of having a story accepted somewhere is to report it on duotrope. I think, "Huzzah! I have raised your magazine's acceptance rate by some non-zero amount!" I've never taken a zero acceptance rate magazine out of the hole, but that would be even more entertaining.

alexshvartsman
03-25-2011, 06:20 AM
BTW, Alex, did you ever hear back from Apex? Cat was clearing her slush recently...


She cleared me out with that slush :) A form rejection after 125 days or so.

Gray Rose
03-25-2011, 09:10 AM
She cleared me out with that slush :) A form rejection after 125 days or so.

Ack, I'm sorry :(

MattJ
03-25-2011, 07:31 PM
Thanks. Now checking Duotrope is a four part process:

1. Check sub days (no, I can't just plus 1 in my head)
2. Check the market for avg times
3. Check the RSS feed for up to the minute avg times
4. Run a market search for giggles
(5) Wake up four hours later, alone in a seedy motel in Mexico, with a bottle of tequila in my hand and no idea how I got there.

And don't forget: you can subscribe to an RSS feed that'll send reports of each response for the markets you currently have stories out to directly to your feed reader...

(i love duotrope so much--probably because i'm a stats man)

alexshvartsman
03-25-2011, 08:38 PM
(5) Wake up four hours later, alone in a seedy motel in Mexico, with a bottle of tequila in my hand and no idea how I got there.

Don't forget to perform the obligatory "are both my kidneys still there" check :)

Shadow_Ferret
03-25-2011, 10:26 PM
Maybe I'm the weird one, but I use Duotrope as a tool for submitting my writing and nothing else. I didn't even realize there were other time wasters on there.

I do a search for my story's genre. Start at highest paying magazine, click on it, click on the magazine's link, read the submission guidelines, prepare the email, hit submit, then log that in to Duotrope, and I'm done. I submit it then forget it, on to the next story.

What else is there to do there?

Chris P
03-25-2011, 10:33 PM
I'm with the joker rodent (and this won't make any sense once the avatar gets changed). I use it as a tool to find markets and nothing else.

I love Duotrope just as much as any other tool that increases my efficiency. Googling prospective markets goes nowhere fast.

MattJ
03-25-2011, 11:46 PM
Obsess about your submissions. It's fun if you're an obsesser. Duotrope can give you editors preferences, response times, all sorts of stuff.

Maybe I'm the weird one, but I use Duotrope as a tool for submitting my writing and nothing else. I didn't even realize there were other time wasters on there.
[snip]
What else is there to do there?

Chris P
03-25-2011, 11:51 PM
Does it count as obsessing if I constantly relive sections of a story I've already subbed? Or is that narcissism?

Jamesaritchie
03-26-2011, 12:36 AM
Duotrope is good, but unless you're actually reading the magazines you find there, chances are Duotrope really is just a time waster.

Chris P
03-26-2011, 12:51 AM
Duotrope is good, but unless you're actually reading the magazines you find there, chances are Duotrope really is just a time waster.

James, I've wanted to ask you this for a while. Don't I lose money reading past issues from the current editor if I have to order back issues or subscribe to see the content? By the time I research two or three markets I've spent more than the $75 I'm going to get for a 1500-word short. Aren't I behind even before I send the story anywhere? And what about my time spent reading? Don't get me wrong, I understand and wholly agree with the approach, but when does it cross the line into all research and no action? New writers are prone to analysis paralysis enough as it is.

Nathaniel Katz
03-26-2011, 01:13 AM
James, I've wanted to ask you this for a while. Don't I lose money reading past issues from the current editor if I have to order back issues or subscribe to see the content? By the time I research two or three markets I've spent more than the $75 I'm going to get for a 1500-word short. Aren't I behind even before I send the story anywhere? And what about my time spent reading? Don't get me wrong, I understand and wholly agree with the approach, but when does it cross the line into all research and no action? New writers are prone to analysis paralysis enough as it is.

I'm not James, but I can take a shot at answering: presumably, you're going to be writing more than one story. So while I'm spending more reading F&SF, Asimov's, Analog, DSF, SH, etc, than I could possibly make from one story, it's not just helping me sell that one story but every other SF/F story that I write, and there will presumably be dozens of those so that the cost isn't even comparable with the gain. As for when to read the magazines, don't most writers read? Why would you be driven to write if you don't like to read as much as possible?

Chris P
03-26-2011, 01:45 AM
I'm not James, but I can take a shot at answering: presumably, you're going to be writing more than one story. So while I'm spending more reading F&SF, Asimov's, Analog, DSF, SH, etc, than I could possibly make from one story, it's not just helping me sell that one story but every other SF/F story that I write, and there will presumably be dozens of those so that the cost isn't even comparable with the gain. As for when to read the magazines, don't most writers read? Why would you be driven to write if you don't like to read as much as possible?

I suspected this was the case, in that I would have a number of stories ready to be sent, and I could choose which story to send to which market. The research I do for Story A will help find a market for Story B. Or, I can tailor an existing story to the market or write a new one entirely. As for the reading, there's "study reading," in which I make note of the POV, tense, theme, etc. the market seems to prefer, and then "pleasure reading," where I read for the love of it. The first one sounds like work but fun in its own way. :D

Nathaniel Katz
03-26-2011, 01:50 AM
Well, the first of those isn't necessarily needed, depending on how deep you want to go. I just read the issues like I'd read any short stories, and then I spend five minutes afterwards just flipping back to each story opening to see how fast the author gets into the meat of the plot, the rough length of the stories, that kind of thing.

Izz
03-26-2011, 02:05 AM
I tend to read sample fiction (around awards time it's pretty easy to find entire sample stories online that've been previously published in pro-mags), rather than entire issues. I'll also shell out for a Year's Best-of Anthology or two, and make note of where the stories were published.

That being said, if i like what a zine typically puts out, and it's not free to read, i'll buy copies (generally a digital copy if possible; shipping physical stuff to NZ is an expensive PITA--yay for Asimov's now offering digital).

Though, that being said, even if i don't think a story's a good fit for a venue but all the good fit options are taken i'll sub it there anyway. :D

Gray Rose
03-26-2011, 04:30 AM
I send stuff to magazines I like to read. In my case this means Strange Horizons, Weird Tales, Fantasy, Lightspeed, GUD, LCRW, Clockwork Phoenix, Apex, and Jabberwocky. I also submit to anthologies edited by people I like, especially if they pay pro. I submit to other pro markets occasionally if their response times are reasonable and if the material is appropriate.

juniper
03-31-2011, 11:00 AM
So, I must be doing something wrong. I just checked Duotrope for the first time and used these parameters:
Genre: mystery/crime
Subgenre: cozy
Style: any
Length: novel (yeah, I know this is the SS forum, sorry)
Theme: any
Payscale: any
Royalties: any
Medium: any
Sub type: any
Sub details: left all unchecked
Pub frequency: left unchecked
Exclude: temp closed checked, restricted unchecked

So, that seemed pretty open to me as for possibilities. But for primary markets, only 3 matches found! Bell Bridge Books, Five Star/Tekno Books, MuseItUp Publishing.

Really? That's all the publishers who want cozy mysteries? Then why are they all over the New Fiction shelves at the bookstores?

Granted, for the secondary markets the list was much longer. But still discouraging.

(should I post this in M/T/S instead? not sure)

Polenth
03-31-2011, 11:15 AM
Really? That's all the publishers who want cozy mysteries? Then why are they all over the New Fiction shelves at the bookstores?

Duotrope only lists places taking unsolicited and unagented submissions. Most of the publishers putting books in the bookstore only take agented submissions. Your best bet is to look for an agent, which Duotrope can't help you with.

juniper
03-31-2011, 11:19 AM
Oooohhhh - I didn't understand that bit. (I should have looked at the fine print.) Thx for clearing it up for me.

Where's the "embarrassed" smiley?:e2hammer:

Izz
03-31-2011, 04:08 PM
Oooohhhh - I didn't understand that bit. (I should have looked at the fine print.) Thx for clearing it up for me.

Where's the "embarrassed" smiley?:e2hammer:Never anything silly about asking a question if you don't know the answer. Much more silly to not ask the question, imo. :)

juniper
03-31-2011, 11:33 PM
I've got some short stories I'm reworking (why I'm hanging out here) so maybe I'll get up the nerve to send them off. Good info.

Nathaniel Katz
04-01-2011, 12:51 AM
For duotrope, I wouldn't use the subgenre feature too much; it limits things too far for me. You can get more accurate readings by just doing genre and doing the rest yourself.

shelleyo
04-08-2011, 07:33 PM
I planned to make some submissions today. Duotrope makes it so simple to compare markets, so I headed there first thing this morning only to find that the site's down.

You'll be able to get other things done today besides checking stats! ;)

ETA: 11:20. It's back up; I just posted a response there. I do rely on it a lot for market comparisons, more than I realized. I'd planned to look at markets this morning, and while the site was down and I was ploddingly going from site to site I fervently wished it would come back up. :)

Shelley

Regan Leigh
04-11-2011, 04:31 AM
Got a rejection today on one of my first subs. (Only subbed about five now, I think.)

I should be editing -- don't tell the other Mods cause they'll kick me out -- but I've played on Duotrope for an hour now.

It's crack rock, I tell ya...

icenine
06-23-2011, 09:35 PM
I love duotrope

areteus
06-23-2011, 10:28 PM
I can give it up anytime I want to...

It is very useful and I have got very good over the years at ignoring annoying things...

JC Romel
06-23-2011, 10:50 PM
I've been using Duotrope for almost two years now, and I've only just now discovered the "check recent responses" feature. It really is way better than the average response time stats, because it gives you actual response times. Go check Lightspeed's listing. They have a 7-day response this month, and it's considered an outlier. That's how efficient JJA is at getting back to folks.

And I've also just recently noticed that they tell you when their last response was, and how recently subbed the piece they responded to was.

Henri Bauholz
06-25-2011, 07:43 AM
I enjoy the way Duotrope is organized. I have gotten som e nice responses by submitting to obscure markets through them, but nothing solid. Here's a blog I sometimes visit that does interviews with fiction editors. It's called SixQuestionsFor (http://http://sixquestionsfor.blogspot.com/) and the author does interviews with current editors.

squeaky pram
07-23-2011, 04:22 PM
My name is Squeaky Pram, and I'm a Duotrolic.

It does feel better! Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

So, what's the first of the twelve steps?
:D

Raphee
08-18-2011, 11:32 AM
I would have wasted more time finding journals to submit to without Duotrope. The info there is quite good.
I don't use RSS or the digest. Just use Duotrope when I have something to submit, or to find info on markets. Not more than 2 hrs a week. I guess once I understand the market (I'm new to shorts) I'll cut down on time.
I don't waste much time there. Spend more on AW actually.

turtledinosaur
08-31-2011, 04:54 AM
Wow! I'm so glad I'm not the only one addicted to Duotrope! I feel guilty though because I haven't donated anything to them. :(

fourlittlebees
06-02-2014, 08:17 PM
This thread looks seriously dead since Duotrope went to a subscription model. Anyone think it's worth the money to find paying markets?

veinglory
06-02-2014, 08:25 PM
I used it more for the response time data, which with a shuttered membership I presume is greatly reduced in quantity.

Calla Lily
06-02-2014, 08:50 PM
I use it as a convenient Costco-like warehouse of markets. Also, like veinglory, for response times.

fourlittlebees
06-02-2014, 09:04 PM
I use it as a convenient Costco-like warehouse of markets. Also, like veinglory, for response times.


HEY LILY! So you think it's worth the subscription fee? I'm tired of trying to track down all the calls, so I was hoping for something more streamlined.

How is it for romance/erotica, since I do that mostly other than the occasional ghost story.

JustSarah
06-02-2014, 09:58 PM
I actually primarily use the grinder, so I'm unaware of all the going on at duo trope. (I can't afford the payed subscription service.)

It would be nice to know the current market acceptance rate though.

(I'd be leery of anybody that has a 0.1 acceptance rate.)

fourlittlebees
06-02-2014, 10:04 PM
I actually primarily use the grinder, so I'm unaware of all the going on at duo trope. (I can't afford the payed subscription service.)

It would be nice to know the current market acceptance rate though.

(I'd be leery of anybody that has a 0.1 acceptance rate.)

I've been EXTREMELY lucky so far with acceptance rate. EXTREMELY. I've even had one say "Not right for this, but can I hold it for this other?"

Of course! ;)

JustSarah
06-02-2014, 10:07 PM
Well like my uncertainty is still going.

Of course rejections is fine, I'm still a beginner. Or at least have no way of knowing otherwise. I hardly ever submit.

Plus sometimes you have to find the best market for it, as its not always going to be a perfect match.

(I do adult fiction with middle grade protagonists.)

fourlittlebees
06-02-2014, 10:10 PM
Well like my uncertainty is still going.

Of course rejections is fine, I'm still a beginner. Or at least have no way of knowing otherwise. I hardly ever submit.

Plus sometimes you have to find the best market for it, as its not always going to be a perfect match.

(I do adult fiction with middle grade protagonists.)

I also do things backward, for the most part: I write TO the call in a lot of cases. Or I'll edit to a call. I think one time I had a flash rejected (that was assigned) and rather than retool it for the assignment, I wrote a new one, and expanded the flash to a full-length short for a call I felt might fit it better than the assignment.

It definitely helps to get in at a certain place, especially if you do anthos, because editors will also rec you/trust each others' judgement.

JustSarah
06-02-2014, 10:20 PM
Submitting to anthologies I found tricky. If I were just serious (as suppose to comedy) fiction, and didn't have spec elements this would be much easier.

Anthologies that are Near future, but with a slice of life are hard to find. Plotted plotlessness.

I hate saying theme-driven, it always make me feel arrogant.XD

Jamesaritchie
06-02-2014, 11:14 PM
I actually primarily use the grinder, so I'm unaware of all the going on at duo trope. (I can't afford the payed subscription service.)

It would be nice to know the current market acceptance rate though.

(I'd be leery of anybody that has a 0.1 acceptance rate.)

Some of the very best markets out there have a 0.1 acceptance rate. Sometimes lower.

I think the silliest thing a writer can do is even think about the acceptance rate at a magazine. If the magazine does reject your story, so what? The next market down is still waiting.

You break into big, tough, name-making market by submitting to those markets until you start getting feedback.

Limiting yourself to high acceptance rate magazines can seriously harm your chance sat big,m really good magazines. Two o rthree smaller sales are fine, but there comes a point when you have nothing but small sales that you start giving top editors the idea that you simply aren't good enough for their magazines.

Just submit to the best magazines, and don't even think about such stats as acceptance rates. Most often, when comparing magazine type to similar type, the higher the acceptance rate, the worse the magazine.

The magazines that really help you are most often the ones with very low acceptance rates.

Shadow_Ferret
06-04-2014, 02:01 AM
At first I balked when duotrope went subscription, but then I thought about it. For $5 I get an up-to-date short story fiction market search engine that saves me a ton of time versus trying to search for markets using Google or an outdated library copy of Fiction Market. Plus it keeps track of my submissions. To me, $5 is a bargain in aggravation-free submitting.

Haggis
06-04-2014, 02:09 AM
At first I balked when duotrope went subscription, but then I thought about it. For $5 I get an up-to-date short story fiction market search engine that saves me a ton of time versus trying to search for markets using Google or an outdated library copy of Fiction Market. Plus it keeps track of my submissions. To me, $5 is a bargain in aggravation-free submitting.
Have you looked at the Grinder (http://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/thegrinder/Default.aspx)? It's free.

Calla Lily
06-04-2014, 02:56 AM
Thanks, Haggis. I'm going to check that out.

JustSarah
06-04-2014, 03:10 AM
To clarify: I meant I'm skeptical of anything with an acceptance rate of 0.1 or higher. Lower is absolutely fine.XD

I wouldn't be proud of myself if I sent and got accepted to a zine that had say, ... a 0.5 acceptance rate.

I wouldn't have found Cricket without the grinder, its a life saver.

Ken
06-04-2014, 03:47 AM
When the site was free I found it very helpful. It's a good place to seek out pubs. There are some really interesting ones. Many that pay little if anything, not that that's bad or anything. And yeah, the stats for the ones that do can be intimidating. Just remember though. If your stories are good you'll always have a chance no matter how great the odds b/c ultimately there are very few writers who write good stories. The majority of us are just so-so at best. Rise above that and you've got a real chance.

Jamesaritchie
06-04-2014, 05:26 AM
To clarify: I meant I'm skeptical of anything with an acceptance rate of 0.1 or higher. Lower is absolutely fine.XD

I wouldn't be proud of myself if I sent and got accepted to a zine that had say, ... a 0.5 acceptance rate.

I wouldn't have found Cricket without the grinder, its a life saver.

Except that Cricket buys all rights. I sold them one story that was already at the end of its life cycle, but most of the money in short stories is in reprints and subsidiary rights. I think I've sold all right to a story only three or four times in thirty-five years, and the stories were always end of the life cycle.

I had a friend who sold all rights to a story for a couple of hundred dollars, and the buyer then optioned movie rights for a heck of a lot more. If the story is made into a movie, my friend may drink himself to death.

Lady MacBeth
06-04-2014, 05:30 AM
Have you looked at the Grinder (http://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/thegrinder/Default.aspx)? It's free.

I agree. The Grinder just keeps getting better.

Liosse de Velishaf
06-04-2014, 05:34 AM
The Grinder is awesome. I really think a free market listing is important to a healthy short fiction/poetry/non-fic market.

To be fair to duotrope, though, upkeep and maintenance on such a listing is incredibly high.

JustSarah
06-04-2014, 05:54 AM
I actually don't even know their acceptance rate. It might end up being something I look into, as that is important.

What might later pose a problem, is I started having a larger arc that ties into age 1,000 word short stories with their own mini-arc.

While OK for larger work, it would be hard to explain how each story isn't really its own separate thing. (I find eight thousand word stories that are a single story almost impossible, as usually I top at 2,000 to 3,000 words.)

Haggis
06-04-2014, 06:58 AM
The Grinder is awesome. I really think a free market listing is important to a healthy short fiction/poetry/non-fic market.

To be fair to duotrope, though, upkeep and maintenance on such a listing is incredibly high.
It is, which is why I did donate to them and promote their site when it was free. When they decided to charge for their services, I looked at their fees and decided it would cost more than I felt the service was worth. For me. There was concern, too, about the validity of their data, considering the smaller sample they'd be working with. I switched over the the Grinder so have no way of validating whether or not Duotrope's data is as good as it used to be. I'd love to hear from those who are still using it.

I backed out of short stories for a bit but am now starting to crawl back in. If I keep it up, I will surely be donating to the Grinder folks and be doing all the promotion for them I can.

Calla Lily
06-04-2014, 07:06 AM
I've been using Duotrope for a couple of years. I like its database, its ease of cataloging my own subs, and especially the way it indicates when it might be time to nudge.

However, I'm not married to it and if the Grinder is almost as good, I'll ditch Duotrope. I simply want an accessible list of markets and ease of tracking my work. Shorts are how I relax between full-length novels, so anything that doesn't make more work for me is a winner.

blacbird
06-04-2014, 12:13 PM
$5 is a bargain in aggravation-free submitting.


aggravation-free submitting. gerund modified by compound adj. Fantasized to express a fictional concept supposed to exist in the world of publishing, unconnected with observable reality. See also unicorn, Santa Claus, tooth fairy.

-- Blacbird's Unabridged Dictionary, 2014 ed.

caw

Jamesaritchie
06-04-2014, 05:30 PM
I tend to use Writer's Market more than anything. I also find a lot of brand new markets in writing magazines, usually before they hit such places as Duotrope or The Grinder. Getting there first is always a big advantage.

Duotrope is, I think, ridiculously cheap, and an investment in your business. It seems odd to me that so many refuse to invest such a tiny, tiny amount of money in what is a business. I suspect The Grinder will also learn over time that nothing is free, and donations are, at best, spotty.

But all such databases should just be a starting point.

JustSarah
06-04-2014, 08:29 PM
There are of course other ways to find out about magazine that are currently taking submissions.

Scbwi forums has a list of different children's and middle grade magazines to submit to, though a lot of times they do tend to be themed. I will never write for a themed magazine, no matter how loosely the theme may be applied.

When I'm employed, I may consider Duotrope.

Manuel Royal
06-04-2014, 09:00 PM
When Duotrope was free, I was happy to voluntarily donate $2 a month. When they switched to demanding $5, it was a bit much.

I like Grinder, but haven't been doing my part lately. Need to finish putting my submission history in there.

JustSarah
06-04-2014, 09:36 PM
$5 wouldn't be so expensive, if I had the same job I used to work for. Despite it's problems. Otherwise I'd donate $10 dollars a month. (No, that's not an invitation to raise the price.)

Coop720
06-07-2014, 09:12 PM
I've just gotten into submitting to magazines/journals 'properly' and I used The Grinder to have a look for a few suitable publications. It was good, but how does everyone swear by these databases? Do you not, after a while, you just remember certain publications to submit to or am I missing something?

Why such a concentration on who gets accepted and rejected? Surely if the story fits with an issue, it fits and has little to do with the rejection/acceptance trends?

Outofcontext
06-07-2014, 10:03 PM
The acceptance / rejection rate for either The Grinder or Duotrope is interesting information, but doesn't influence whether or not I submit to a given publication. The response data is more valuable, but only in that it gives me a general idea of how long I may have to wait for a response. Both sites are helpful in finding suitable publications, but then again, there are plenty of online literary directories that do the same with more detail.

OoC

Little Ming
06-07-2014, 11:29 PM
I've just gotten into submitting to magazines/journals 'properly' and I used The Grinder to have a look for a few suitable publications. It was good, but how does everyone swear by these databases? Do you not, after a while, you just remember certain publications to submit to or am I missing something?

I use the Grinder to look for new publications and anthologies. Check the "Recently Added Markets" tab. There's usually a handful of new markets every week.

Why such a concentration on who gets accepted and rejected? Surely if the story fits with an issue, it fits and has little to do with the rejection/acceptance trends?

I don't care as much about acceptation/rejection rates, as response time. All else being equal I will submit to a ~10 day market first before a 100+ day market.

imjustj
06-08-2014, 03:24 AM
I am new to Duotrope and I LOVE IT!

I had four submissions last week and three were discovered through Duotrope. I have also created a healthy list of upcoming deadlines to work towards.

Their submission tracker is just grand. :-)

IMHO, it is well worth the subscription price.

Coop720
06-08-2014, 05:21 PM
I use the Grinder to look for new publications and anthologies. Check the "Recently Added Markets" tab. There's usually a handful of new markets every week.



I don't care as much about acceptation/rejection rates, as response time. All else being equal I will submit to a ~10 day market first before a 100+ day market.

Ah, I see. I guess that makes sense. I'll try it out again some other time, looking at that feature. I guess you don't really fully know until you send off to the publication yourself! I guess I'll learn when I start getting into it :)

Shadow_Ferret
06-09-2014, 09:06 PM
Have you looked at the Grinder (http://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/thegrinder/Default.aspx)? It's free.
I'd never heard of it until now. I'll have to check it out and do some comparisons between the two.
aggravation-free submitting. gerund modified by compound adj. Fantasized to express a fictional concept supposed to exist in the world of publishing, unconnected with observable reality. See also unicorn, Santa Claus, tooth fairy.

-- Blacbird's Unabridged Dictionary, 2014 ed.

caw
You remind me of the L'il Abner character that walked around with a perpetual dark cloud hanging over his head.

Haggis
06-09-2014, 09:10 PM
I'd never heard of it until now. I'll have to check it out and do some comparisons between the two.

You remind me of the L'il Abner character that walked around with a perpetual dark cloud hanging over his head.
Joe Btfsplk.

Batspan
06-09-2014, 11:19 PM
The guys doing The Grinder are responsive to feedback and keep making improvements. A few weeks ago they added a tab where you can check recent response times from markets you have work at with one click. It also gives automatic updates on opened and closed status for markets you're watching.

Shadow_Ferret
06-10-2014, 12:50 AM
Joe Btfsplk.
Wasn't that the leprechaun character that was Superman's nemesis and to defeat him you had to say his name backwards or something?

dachshund
06-12-2014, 09:08 AM
Mr. Mxyzptlk.

I still use Duotrope and like it pretty well. I guess I could switch to the Grinder, but it feels like a hassle to dump hundreds of submissions over there. Unless there's some mass uploader tool. That and I'm just comfortable with it.

grayworld
06-28-2014, 11:16 AM
Thanks all for the info regarding The Grinder. When Duotrope started charging, I died a little inside. But I get it. They have bills to pay.

Bartholomew
06-28-2014, 03:58 PM
Joe Btfsplk.

I like to think it was pronounced "Smith," but I think Al Capp voiced it with the Bronx cheer.

Steve Coate
08-10-2014, 09:25 AM
Mr. Mxyzptlk.

I still use Duotrope and like it pretty well. I guess I could switch to the Grinder, but it feels like a hassle to dump hundreds of submissions over there. Unless there's some mass uploader tool. That and I'm just comfortable with it.


They have an import function that will move your list into their system for you.

snowpea
08-16-2014, 03:29 PM
Grinder is better for my needs... And research through various sources. But I tried Duotrope the other day and after finding Grinder closed my free trial.
However one mag description was incorrect. Rookiemag takes fiction from writers of all ages, not just teenage girls. I asked them personally.