PublishAmerica and the Amazon Studios contest

[Gillhoughly]

This FaceBook playwright is not amused by PA's grab for writer money:

http://www.facebook.com/vintageplayhouse#!/profile.php?id=1457877981&v=wall

Watch out for Publish America's latest scam. They will list your book on Amazon Studios for $99.00 when you can do it yourself by going directly to Amazon Studios. Plus they (PA) will take 1/2 of your winnings.....there's a sucker born every (minute)"

I have just listed a script on Amazonstudios.com PA is playing everyone for a fool....can't believe how desperate people can be to fall for the obvious BS they put out. Lawrence, stay away from those crooks...wish I had...

[PVish]

This FaceBook playwright is not amused by PA's grab for writer money:

http://www.facebook.com/vintageplayhouse#!/profile.php?id=1457877981&v=wall

Since his 137-page PA book ($24.95 and "temporarily out of stock" at Amazon.com.) has been out for a year, he no doubt is aware by now that PA isn't a reputable publisher.

[amergina]

I searched for Amazon at the PA bookstore and found these two items:

http://www.publishamerica.net/product37376.html 99.00

http://www.publishamerica.net/product37377.html 119.00

Same product description:
Amazon, Warner Bros want your story for Hollywood!
Product Description
Click Add to cart, choose a shipping option to start the activation. In the Ordering Instructions box be sure to mention the title of your book. If your book has not yet been released, add "Pre-release!" By activating your book's submission to Amazon Studios you authorize PublishAmerica to act on your behalf and you agree that this constitutes your consent in writing.

Valid for one book at a time only. No coupons allowed. After we have received your activation you will be contacted about how to add your book's list of characters and a film synopsis.

Ugh. I hope there aren't too many folks who fall for this crap.

[Gillhoughly]

Hmmm--where have we seen a similar "offer?"

Usually they're those tiny ads in the backs of magazines and they read like this:

Get paid to read books!!


You love to read, so why not get paid to do it? Publishers need discerning readers to help them sort through hundreds of books. Your choices can influence thousands and put money in the bank!

Just send Gillhoughly a one-time check for 99.95 and you'll get the insider's secret on how to make barrels of cash from reading books!

The secret being a list of publishers with slush piles--which are read by whatever assistant editors, already underpaid and wearing a dozen hats in their understaffed office, are doing anyway.

But, hey--I get to keep that 99.95! I did say it would put money in the bank.

My bank, that is.

Wonder where PA is stowing their checks from this farce--or is Willie flying it all out of the country?

[James D. Macdonald]

Amazon Studios (http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/11/amazon-studios-democratises-moviemaking/), ladies and gentlemen!

You can submit your work yourself (http://studios.amazon.com/) for free, or you can pay PublishAmerica to submit it, and give them a half-share in everything. (That's what folks call a win-win situation, at least if you're Miranda and Larry.)

I wonder if they noticed that Amazon Studios isn't looking for books at all? They want screenplays or films.

Oh, I get it! You pay PublishAmerica $99 for the chance to write a screenplay yourself based on your own book!

[CatSlave]

Or you pay a ridiculous amount to PA to have one of their Professional Experienced Editors to reformat your book into a screenplay first.

Then pay another fee to have PA submit it to Amazon Studios.

Nice, that.

[TheTinCat]

Since his 137-page PA book ($24.95 and "temporarily out of stock" at Amazon.com.) has been out for a year, he no doubt is aware by now that PA isn't a reputable publisher.

I have to say, I have deep respect and admiration for any PA-author who - once they realize what's really going on - decides to speak out about it. If it were me I'm quite certain I would be too horrified and stupidly proud to admit what had happened to anyone but myself.

[Queen of Swords]

Just seen on a PA author's Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/notes.php?id=143230842379585&notes_tab=app_2347471856#!/pages/The-Offical-Patrick-D-House-Page/143230842379585) :

I dont have a credit card or debit card to pay $100.00 to my publish on getting on board with Warner Brothers. This sucks.

Well, at least without a credit card he won't lose a lot of money.

[ctripp]

I'm assuming the WB offer is PA sending the writers books to the studio?
The writers don't stop to wonder WHY that would cost $100!

[James D. Macdonald]

I'm assuming the WB offer is PA sending the writers books to the studio?
The writers don't stop to wonder WHY that would cost $100!

No, I believe that it's Amazon Studios
(http://studios.amazon.com/)
That's a contest where if you send your screen play to Amazon, they offer prizes, and:

Amazon Studios has a first-look deal with Warner Bros. Pictures, which means we'll be presenting our top projects to Hollywood's biggest studio for consideration as theatrical feature films. And winners of the Amazon Studios Annual Awards won't just get money—they'll also get a meeting with Warner Bros. development executives.

Essentially, PA is asking their authors to pay $100 and half of any winnings to enter a contest that they could enter themselves for free. We're seeing the PA authors who pay the money being told to write their own screenplays anyway.

[JulieB]

Essentially, PA is asking their authors to pay $100 and half of any winnings to enter a contest that they could enter themselves for free. We're seeing the PA authors who pay the money being told to write their own screenplays anyway.

At least they didn't pay to get published, eh?

Seriously, I do feel for these authors. This isn't how the publishing business is supposed to work.

[Gillhoughly]

A friend sent me a copy of the mail PA sent out.

I hardly need mention that Amazon isn't charging a fee that I can see, but PA is gouging their writers, as usual.

Bolding is mine--indicating how PA justifies that 99.00 fee. I expect the "reworking" means they run it through spell check and accept all changes.

--------------------------------------------------------

Dear author:

Amazon.com has done it again. Now they have started Amazon Studios, and they want to see if your book's manuscript is their (and Warner Bros. Pictures'!) next movie.

Basically, Amazon is now also entering the movie business, and they are crowdsourcing it, shopping among original story tellers like yourself. They have given Warner Bros. the right of first refusal.

(I'm sure the WB is thrilled to bits about that and have their fingers hovering over the delete key even as I write. IF they even bother to go to Amazon for a look-see. - Gill)

From Tuesday's Amazon Studios announcement:

"We are excited to introduce writers, filmmakers and movie lovers to Amazon Studios [...] It is the goal of Amazon Studios to produce new, full-budget theatrical films based on the best projects and it will give Warner Bros. Pictures first access to the projects Amazon Studios wishes to produce in cooperation with an outside studio."

The Amazon Studio deals include rights payments of $200,000 for winning submissions, and a $400,000 bonus "if the movie makes over $60 million at the U.S. box office".

(WHAT A RIPOFF!!!)

It also awards prizes of $20,000 for the two best scripts in a month even if they don't become a movie. See for all details http://studios.amazon.com/.

Here's how it works:

Together with you we'll rework your manuscript a little, then we submit it to Amazon Studios for their contest, following their guidelines. They award prizes monthly.

Activate your entry for Amazon Studios today: go to http://www.publishamerica.net/AmazonWarnerBros1.html, click Add to cart, choose a shipping option to start the activation. In the Ordering Instructions box be sure to mention the title of your book. If your book has not yet been released, add "Pre-release!"

By activating your book's submission to Amazon Studios you authorize PublishAmerica to act on your behalf and you agree that this constitutes your consent in writing.

(How about putting THAT in writing in a proper contract? You won't do it, though. That would cost PA postage money, and besides, you're likely confident that no script from any of your writers has a snowball's chance in hell of winning. - Gill)

After we have received your activation you will be contacted about adding your book's list of characters and a film synopsis.

(And how much will THAT cost?-- Gill)

See you in Hollywood! (Sometime after hell freezes over.-- Gill)

--PublishAmerica Bookstore

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear PA Writer,

PA is NOT being altruistic--they want 99.00 from you for something you can do yourself for free.

If they thought you had the remotest chance of winning, they would want a piece of that pie, at least half of it, and would tie you up with another contract.

Sorry, mate, but you're out 99.00 of Christmas present money and PA will be laughing all the way to the bank for putting another one over on you.

I don't know how they can sleep at night. Must be freeing to be such bald-faced sociopaths.

[ctripp]

>PA is asking their authors to pay $100 and half of any winnings to enter a contest that they could enter themselves for free. We're seeing the PA authors who pay the money being told to write their own screenplays anyway.<

James, that's so much worse then I expected from them. They never cease to amaze and discust!

[darkprincealain]

It seems to me they've done this sort of thing before, adding to an entry fee to enter a contest or adding an entry fee where there wasn't one, with a contest an author could have entered by themselves. I could very well be wrong, but I don't think so.

The new wrinkle is, of course, telling them to write their own screenplays. That seems to me like a whole bunch of effort that will amount to nothing, in the end. No film will be produced from it. In the end, they'll have a trunk screenplay, and have maybe done some homework about how to write in a format they may never wish to write in again. It just smacks of wasted effort, to me.

So much of PA is about lying and unethical practices, though. They just seem to sink to new lows all the time.

[Gillhoughly]

So much of PA is about lying and unethical practices, though. They just seem to sink to new lows all the time.

ALL of PA is about getting as much money from the writers before the writers wise up.

What next PA? Please do surprise the folk here who have what you don't: a moral compass.

Hm. It occurs to me the Stooges are unfamiliar with the term.

Here's a picture for you guys--and hey--if you decide you want to get one, these things are FREE!

http://topnews.in/files/moral_compass.gif

[CatSlave]

Together with you we'll rework your manuscript a little,...
What is the definition of "a little?"

[DreamWeaver]

What is the definition of "a little?"
"We'll run the spell-checker again."

[James D. Macdonald]

[/B][/COLOR]What is the definition of "a little?"


"We'll tell you 'rewrite your book in screenplay format.'"

[Jill Karg]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatSlave http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5558692#post5558692)
What is the definition of "a little?"

"We'll run the spell-checker again."


Well after they run spell-checker again and changes words like Herr to her or heir. I had 3 errors in my manuscript when I sent it to them (that I caught after the fact). After I caught 36 errors in formating, they still added 23 more errors like Herr to Heir.

Real good editing staff. :ROFL:

[Unimportant]

This one will either get cornfielded or a tone-letter response, since the thread title is "PA please tell me you did not mislead me (http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=33317)!!!!"
I just want to know if anyone else paid to have their book to be turned into a screenplay / Movie Script. I saw my book on Amazon Studios and selected the scripts so I could view my movie script only to see my book was uploaded as one. Now I find this unfair because it is not what I paid for. I have emailed the person several times about this and have yet to get a response. Now you fellow authors what you would you do? Ask for a refund? Or hope that PA would be honest since they stated they would follow Amazons contest guidelines. All submissions should be script formatted. and characters centered. As if an actor was reading it to audition for a movie. Unfortunately mine is not. I don't know about any others that was sent but I am sure PA sent them the same way. Come on PA I know what a script looks like. Before my agent sends me on an audition they send me the movie script so I can rehearse my lines. So I can know the part I am auditioning for. If they sent me a book that would confuse me. I believe we should get what we pay for.
Oh, dear.

[ctripp]

Following a link from SD's blog led to this very interesting post.

http://theauditorz.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/scams-and-flams/

Seems after a number of complaints about only books being uploaded by PA, rather then original scripts, Amazon had to take some sort of action and has banned PA from submitting further. At least, that's what I am understanding from the info.

[Scribble10]

Quote:...I hope these writers get their $99 dollars back...

I'm guessing that will be a NO!

[ctripp]

For sure it will be a big NO. PA will have to on PAMB guard though, many of those that did pay for the script contest will be searching, seeing their work gone from the contest and posting to ask why.
What I do see now though on Amazon Studio's Script Contest is a new profile called "Publish America Acquisitions", created Mar 14 and with no scripts posted yet.
Not sure if PA has created another name in order to try posting the books again or what. They may fear that this sort of thing could really look like a scam. It's either post the stuff again and hope nobody squeals on them that they are books, not scripts, or refund the money.

[Terie]

Following a link from SD's blog led to this very interesting post.

http://theauditorz.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/scams-and-flams/

Hey! If I'm not mistaken, our very own Don Davidson's website was linked to in that blog post. Cool.

[Gillhoughly]

Quote:...I hope these writers get their $99 dollars back...

I'm guessing that will be a NO!

It can be a big YES, if they file a charge back with the credit card company.

I hope they do.

[ctripp]

Your right Terie, the name didn't click with me... "Christianityforthinkers" IS Don's site!
Don, hope your proud of being quoted. To me that is far better then that old, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" thing:)

[CaoPaux]

(I've broken this out from the PAMB thread because its such an wonderfully egregious example of PA fleecing their authors. Carry on.)

[ctripp]

CaoPaux, didn't even know this thread was here, excellent! I had intended this morning for my post to go in the "new, never ending" thread but messed up:)
So long as PA writers, or new writers considering PA see this example, it's great with me.

[CaoPaux]

It's a whole new thread made just for you. :D The original discussion was sunk back on page 179 of PAMB, and your news was the excuse I needed to wade in and pull it ashore.

[PVish]

Let's hope that PA doesn't get ideas from Author House:
Hollywood Treatment $3,499. (http://www.authorhouse.com/Servicestore/ServiceDetail.aspx?ServiceId=BS-1285)
Hollywood Screenplay $14,999 (http://www.authorhouse.com/Services/Marketing/HollywoodBook-to-Screen/HollywoodScreenplay.aspx)

[DreamWeaver]

Let's hope that PA doesn't get ideas from Author House:
Hollywood Treatment $3,499. (http://www.authorhouse.com/Servicestore/ServiceDetail.aspx?ServiceId=BS-1285)
Hollywood Screenplay $14,999 (http://www.authorhouse.com/Services/Marketing/HollywoodBook-to-Screen/HollywoodScreenplay.aspx):eek:

[ctripp]

It's a whole new thread made just for you.

Well don't I feel special now:)
I'll certainly follow this newest turn of events with Amazon terminating PA's Studio account but I am sure others will uncover far more then I. It will be rewarding if all of our time results in many of these writers GET their money back but more then that, see what PA really is.

[christwriter]

It seems to me they've done this sort of thing before, adding to an entry fee to enter a contest or adding an entry fee where there wasn't one, with a contest an author could have entered by themselves. I could very well be wrong, but I don't think so.

The new wrinkle is, of course, telling them to write their own screenplays. That seems to me like a whole bunch of effort that will amount to nothing, in the end. No film will be produced from it. In the end, they'll have a trunk screenplay, and have maybe done some homework about how to write in a format they may never wish to write in again. It just smacks of wasted effort, to me.

So much of PA is about lying and unethical practices, though. They just seem to sink to new lows all the time.

I thought it'd be worth adding how rare it is for a genuinely unique screenplay to get turned into a movie. It's a really heady idea, having YOUR BOOK be a movie, and it's really easy for somebody to get lost in the concept-high of MY BOOK=MOVIE and not understand what you;re really talking about here. Not only is it a waste of time and effort because the quality is probably not up to snuff, it's a waste of time and effort because even if it was up to snuff, it's not likely to go anywhere.

Unique stories get turned into movies when the story itself is in the public eye, like Twilight or Lord of the Rings, or when the screenplay can piggy-back on another, better known concept, such as how an original script hid under the dress of I, Robot, or when the people behind the movie couldn't afford to licence something people already knew about (Skyline)

When books and/or screenplays DO get picked up, it's far more likely the studio bought it to make sure that no one ELSE could buy it and make it a hit. They have no intention whatsoever of using it. Their whole intention in purchasing the option is to sit on it for as long as their contract will allow. If something similar catches on fire, they'll use it maybe. But as far as I know, Hollywood is not looking for a unique and original script and/or concept to be the next Star Wars (which they didn't want at the time it was made.) They want something the public already knows really well that hasn't been made into a different movie in the last couple of years. They don't want to have to explain your unique plot to movie going audiences. They don't want the risk of the unknown. They want you to already know what this is before they start production. This is why I, Robot had nothing to do with Asimov's work, but was still named I, Robot. This is why we've had four Oceans Eleven movies and why they're rebooting the Spiderman Franchise instead of doing something new.

Original ideas DO get picked up and used. Usually when a big name director and/or producer and/or movie star comes along, likes what they see, and puts their heft (and the marketing potential of their name) behind the movie. This is why District 9 was marketed as "Produced by Peter Jackson". He was the only big name attached to the project. But it's rare enough for a successful movie based on a unique idea to be a newsworthy event.

My point here? The odds of ANYTHING coming out of this contest that is more substantial than kudos and bragging rights is really, really slim. Knowing nothing about the contest, I have absolute confidence making that statement. Due to these facts alone, ignoring the fact that this contest is free, ignoring every other single aspect of PA's history, paying PA to enter your book into this contest is like paying PA to walk away with your money. You give them money, and then you give them extra money to make sure they don't bring any of it back.

When you think Hollywood, don't think about your book being a movie. Think about how they passed up every wonderful book that ought to be a movie, right now, so that they could make a movie about Mel Gibson talking to his family through a beaver hand puppet. That's your competition. That's what Hollywood would rather film.

(goes back to lurking)

[DeadlyAccurate]

Another thing to think about. Not even every James Patterson or Stephen King book gets made into a movie. For all the books Nora Roberts has, IMDB only shows 10 of them have been turned into films. Janet Evanovich has something like sixteen Stephanie Plum books, but other than a TV movie nine years ago, the one coming out this year (supposedly) will be her first one.

[ctripp]

to me, writing a proper screen play is a million miles away from writing a book manuscript. It is as if saying "oh, you can hammer nails into wood so if you can frame a house, you must be able to do the Electrical and Plumbing." No, every job/talent is different.
PA of course, disagrees:)

[ctripp]

http://theauditorz.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/scams-and-flams/
seems this "watch dog" group has backed down. Their post is still up, though dumbed down and lacking any comments. So, most likely, Amazon has told them to cut the crap (crap meaning anything that would make Amazon look bad)
I don't know how else to explain the change in their blog from this morning to now. If someone else can, please do.

[CaoPaux]

Looks the same to me, complete with 20 comments.

[DreamWeaver]

http://theauditorz.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/scams-and-flams/
seems this "watch dog" group has backed down. Their post is still up, though dumbed down and lacking any comments. So, most likely, Amazon has told them to cut the crap (crap meaning anything that would make Amazon look bad)
I don't know how else to explain the change in their blog from this morning to now. If someone else can, please do.
It was all there when I just went and looked at it right now, including comments starting from 14 March. Wonder what happened? Or maybe the version I originally read this morning *is* the new version.

[ctripp]

Was all well and good for me too, when I checked on it yesterday morning (on my computer, not the iPad)
I've noticed the iPad occasionally has a mind of it's own on what parts of a site it will show, what bits it will not:)
The entire blog and comments show up on the iPad right now, who knows about tomorrow.

[Gillhoughly]

Bottom line in movie making: MONEY.

Studios want to make lots of it.

Movies are insanely expensive to make. Even low budget efforts with one guy, a camera, and a couple friends doing the acting needs equipment and lunches.

Producers are not looking for books with a good story, but for books with tons of sales. That means a built-in audience who will go to see the film.

Good writing may have nothing to do with it. The Da Vinci Code is a prime example. Brown is a hack. A rich hack now, god knows why, his writing sucks. Ditto for Twilight. Sorry Twifans, but the woman can't write a grocery list. However, sales are over the moon for both and that means ticket sales at the box office and merchandising moolah. Ker-ching!

Production companies are after money making properties. If a good story happens to be attached, all the better, but it's not a requirement.

But as has been pointed out by Uncle Jim, total how just how many books (commercial titles, we'll leave out vanities & indie writers) are published in a year vs how many movies are made.

Out of those movies, just how many are based on a book? (Leave out comic book heroes.)

Not a lot. Some producers don't want to bother with authors, sticking to original screenplays. We might kick up a fuss if they cast Tom Cruise in the lead instead of Rutger Hauer. Ann Rice put on her crazy hat and rallied her fans to boycott the film. The studio told her to shut the hell up or they'd sue. She finally had to take out a fullpage ad to tell people she didn't mean it, go see the film. Heh-heh. What a moron.

(Just for the record--if a studio paid ME 2 million for my film rights, they could cast Ryan Seacrest (or worse, Adam Sandler) clog dancing in a tutu as the lead and I'd cheer them on...from my new home in Fiji.)

So the optimistic hope of sell book = make a movie, while possible, is unlikely.

Get that book on the NYTimes bestseller list and the odds improve. Heck, you might even pick up a hundred bucks if someone options the property.

But keep writing in case they don't. There's dozens of bestsellers ahead of you in the line.

[James D. Macdonald]

Bottom line in movie making: MONEY.


Heck yeah, and right now, today, Atlanta Nights--the Movie (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1603898280/atlanta-nights-the-movie) needs backers. Come on, everyone, pledge ten bucks. Right now, right this minute.

Your credit card won't even be charged if they don't make their pledge goal.

Better still, pledge $24.95 (the price of a typical PA book). Miranda hasn't read Atlanta Nights; she's waiting for the movie. You don't want to disappoint her, do you?

[BenPanced]

I am one of the “dumbasses” who paid $99 to have PA submit my novel to Amazon. Hope springs eternal, right? The difference is that I did go on the Amazon Studios website and read the rules sometime after submitting my payment, as I had not yet heard from PA. I saw that they were only accepting screenplays, so I contacted PA about it. In their reply, PA said they would make “cosmetic changes” to the novel and shorten it to make it eligible, then they intimated that AS would format it as a script. Alternatively, they noted that I could make the changes myself. I chose the second alternative and have been hard at work converting the novel to a screenplay. So, my book has not been submitted to AS, which explains why I am not on the list. I will contact PA and demand a refund. I will come back and post the response, if any!
Anybody care to guess what this response might be? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[Cyia]

Anybody care to guess what this response might be? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

What is...

"You can't respond to a post that doesn't exist?"

(And by that, I mean never existed, one which you only think existed, one you imagined reading, and one you should apologize for never making this instant!)

[circlexranch]

Not a lot. Some producers don't want to bother with authors, sticking to original screenplays. We might kick up a fuss if they cast Tom Cruise in the lead instead of Rutger Hauer. Ann Rice put on her crazy hat and rallied her fans to boycott the film. The studio told her to shut the hell up or they'd sue. She finally had to take out a fullpage ad to tell people she didn't mean it, go see the film. Heh-heh. What a moron.


Yup, there's nothing a movie studio loves more than a prima donna diva novelist.

Some epically bad movies have been made from Stephen King books. Not just bad, but fancy bad with raisins on top. His has the right attitude, as long as the check clears, go for it. He knows his true fans will have read the book.

There is a PAMB post up now where the FB guy who says "leave me the hell alone about my publisher, I don't want to hear it . . . " has posted a cast list for when his book is made into cinematic history.

[Ink-Stained Wretch]

Semi off-topic -- not sure if this should be a separate thread or not -- but: has anyone tried suing PA for the return of their money and book rights? I'm not a lawyer by any means, but much of this sounds like legally unenforceable contracts. I forget the official legal term for such contracts, but they DO exist: for example, if I loan you money, and you agree in writing "If I don't pay back the money with interest by X date I agree to be your personal slave for life" -- uh, no. If I took you to court in hope of getting them to enforce the "You are now my slave" provision, there is no chance in hell I would win, and depending on the judge, you might not even have to pay back the money I originally loaned you.

Basically, you have certain legal rights which you cannot give away even if you want to. Of course, what PA is doing is considerably less sleazy than "forcing you to become an unpaid slave for life," but I still wonder how the courts would view those contracts if they were challenged.

[BenPanced]

The contract specifically states the author is bound by arbitration in the state of Maryland, so they cannot sue.

[benbradley]

The contract specifically states the author is bound by arbitration in the state of Maryland, so they cannot sue.
And also (I've read it in these threads many times) that it's a "business to business transaction" so consumer protection laws don't apply. Few who submit to PA (just as few in the general public) have any real business experience, much less knowledge about the publishing industry (it's obvious that PA aims its business toward those who do NOT know much about business and are star-struck by the idea of being published). The State Attorney General apparently sees the "business to business" part and refuses to act on complaints. I see this as a travesty (yes, Travis Tea) of justice.

Perhaps the Maryland Attorney General's office should be picketed. Get the arguments against PA on the TV News. It's obvious to anyone who studoes what PA does that it's a sham, and if consumer laws were appled. Getting the story out to the public where more and more people (such as well-known TV and newspaper opinion writers) learn about the problem and ask "Why isn't anything being done?" can put pressure on officials.

[amergina]

IANAL nor am I am expert.

But as I understand, authors are generally considered personal businesses. That is, if you're commercially published (say with Random House), the contract you have with them to publish your book is business to business. Random House customers are those who buy books from them. (Granted, there's a whole layer of distributes and bookstores et al in there to make that more complex.)

Heck, even if you sell a short story, you'll have to fill out a schedule C on your taxes. Which is you acting as a business. (In the US).

Nominally, PA is contracting with the author to publish his/her book that they will then sell to others. The people who buy the books are considered customers, not the author.

Of course, in reality, pretty much the only people who buy a book by a particular author is that author, and PA works very hard to make sure that authors buy their own books. But since they have them for sale (nominally) to other people... the authors aren't the consumers.

Or rather, the grievances the authors have about the publishing of their books are not consumer complaints. If they buy books and they never arrive, or they're missing pages or something like that, that's a consumer complain.

[ResearchGuy]

. . . Get the arguments against PA on the TV News. . . ..
And hear the response PA will line up from authors who swear by (not at) PA and wonder why you are picking on their publisher. Some of my local writing-group friends would line up in support of PA. Weird, but true.

--Ken

[benbradley]

Yeah, people line up to defend Scientology too...

[spike]

It can be a big YES, if they file a charge back with the credit card company.

I hope they do.

If PA is ever taken down, I think it will be by Visa. If the authors would do this, not just for the slimy amazon studios thing, but every order that is late, or the books are in bad condition, PA would be in trouble.

[ctripp]

If PA is ever taken down, I think it will be by Visa.

And/Or the IRS. A full audit may disclose that a company willing to mislead the elderly, the ill, the poor and the naive may very well be trying to save a few tax dollars as well:)

[ctripp]

http://studios.amazon.com/users/20981

Just checked PA's newer Amazon Studio's Profile "Publish America Acquisitions" and it's been taken down by Amazon. Good!!
It had been created March 14 but with no books (scripts) listed. Perhaps PA tried uploaded the books over the weekend and someone complained that they were back doing it again.
Whatever the case, PA writers will not be seeing their paid for "scripts" in the contest.
I just hope more then a few of them kick up a stink and contact their credit card companies and get their money back.

[ctripp]

"Thank you for your email. All orders are considered to be final and non refundable. Have a good day."

Above is PA's reply to a writer who asked for his money back from the Script scam.

[CatSlave]

...and contact their credit card companies and get their money back.

The BBB may be a weenie, but the credit card companies frown on chicanery, especially repeat offenders.

[ctripp]

Just today I see a writer is asking on PA's Facebook page about her " script". PA's ban by amazon Studio's is old history and here this writer still hasn't been told (or looked into it)
These are the times I wish I could contact these poor people:(