Modern Vampire Genre [Archive] - Absolute Write Water Cooler

Grant Rhoades

10-19-2005, 11:44 PM

Hey guys.

I was wondering what you thought about the Vampire genre? TV shows like Buffy and movies like Underworld have sparked my interest in this style of genre. I love the mix of martial arts, weapons and storytelling. I’ve been thinking about creating my own version but I wanted to mix it up just a bit. As an alternative to Vampires and Werewolves, I wanted to use Demons and Vampires. Also, instead of having a human lead, I wanted to create a Vampire that was a hybrid: Demon and Vampire. Make it a dark gothic story that has some religious themes and action. So, do you think this would be a pointless venture?

kristin724

10-20-2005, 12:05 AM

I don't think any vampire venture is pointless! Although some are better than others.

:popcorn:

I like these modern takes like Buffy, Blade, and Underworld, but I grow tired of them after awhile. I prefer old world gothic vampires, but that is just me. I like internal conflicts, emotions, that kind of stuff. Effects and cool action are no good without realistic people-even vampires- to back it up. Dark Shadows, Forever Knight, some aspects of Buffy. Many fans seem to prefer Angel's mature take. I just like Spike.

The genre itself is fascinating! The confederacy of what ties vampire fiction together is little, "They drink blood, sometimes!"
:ROFL:

One thing I don't totally care for is the mix of vampire romance. IF it's in the romance section, it's not for me.

I'm more curious to know what the vampire publishing trends are. Who is publishing and what exactly do they want?
:flag:

Grant Rhoades

10-20-2005, 12:25 AM

For me, I have to write character and story driven scripts or stories. When I was in my teens and Buffy first came out, I was hooked. I watched Angel religiously and man, let me tell, when they ended it... Boy was I mad.

Action sequences are entertaining for me to write, I love just closing my eyes and visualizing then putting it down on Word. Description is my problem. I am way too descriptive. I'm thinking about venturing into to comic book industry just because description is key there. As for romance, I can write it, but the idea I have right now doesn’t call for it. As I develope it, I'll keep you posted for sure!

scfirenice

10-20-2005, 01:30 AM

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16547&highlight=vampire+fiction+dead

Check out that thread for more. I write vampire fiction with a human lead I put several twists on it. I have two completed novels anf a third almost done. Every agent that has requested my stuff says "I love it" BUT vampire fiction id dead.... I don't know, I don't want to believe this but I still haven't sold my stuff. Will I keep writing it? Yeah, I love to but I will branch out to something salable too.

Sheryl Nantus

10-20-2005, 01:57 AM

well, I HOPE vampire fiction isn't dead 'cause I just sold my first novel based on it!

however, I'm going away from the "we love vampires and they're just misunderstood!" line that's permeated the genre for a bit - it just doesn't work for me anymore, tho I loved and enjoyed Buffy and Angel when they were on the air. So my novel's something like "Romancing The Stone" with a vampire bad guy.

*points at sig*

have hope!!!

kristin724

10-20-2005, 07:45 AM

:Shrug:

I've had trouble selling my vampire work also. Every publisher I check out says yes horror, no vampires. I've written and published other works but my vampire stories have turned into a series for me. I return to them often and
write with their characters in mind, not their vampirism.

The first book I just sent to Brutarian. I was wearing of saying vampires, because simply in that story there are a lot of serious murders and abuses before my characters even become vampires. The thing I love about genre fiction is not the outstanding elements, its that there are regular people behind those extras.

Like Kirk says, "I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space." :)

I also enjoy action scenes. I see things in my head like a movie, but when I write them, it doesn't come out like award winning cinemotagraphy. Go fig

About 10 years ago Pinnacle and Zebra seemed to have a whole line devote to vampire books. I have a few like The Vampire Princess and Night Life, and I personally didn't think they were that good.

Maybe the market got over saturated and soured. Lucky for us, things happen in cycles!

aspiringwriter

10-20-2005, 07:51 AM

I like the Vampire genre myself--just can't write it, i've tried. I think it's a really cool genre and find it fascinating.

Grant Rhoades

10-20-2005, 08:46 AM

I wonder why publishers don't want to publish Vampire novels? Have you thought about graphic novels? I'm not sure how those work or the format in which you write them, but it could work.

emeraldcite

10-20-2005, 08:58 AM

If you do it well, there is a market for it. There are still a few bastions of vampire lit out there. Dreams of Decadence comes to mind and bloodlust-uk.com as well (I've got a piece there :) ), so it's around. The pop vampirism has cycled out, I think, drained dry by Blade and Buffy. (bad pun. I take full responsibility).

It's out there and I'm sure there will be a resurgence as soon as something new and trendy (more emphasis on the latter) comes about. Have you struck it? time will tell...

Grant Rhoades

10-20-2005, 09:42 PM

Very wise words I say!

preyer

10-21-2005, 04:28 AM

i'd love to comment on vampire stories, but i don't feel like getting banned today. suffice it to say i list them under 'stories that don't need to be written.'

scfirenice

10-21-2005, 06:23 AM

You would never be banned for that, Preyer. WHere's my Romance? I still think vampire stories can be sold, but due to the surplus of them, the bar is higher.

williemeikle

10-21-2005, 06:34 PM

Hey guys.
... Make it a dark gothic story that has some religious themes and action. So, do you think this would be a pointless venture?

Grant

Before you start, you might want to check out the work of Karen Koehler.... she writes very much the same kind of thing you're proposing
http://www.khpindustries.com/covenhouse2.html

I'll declare an interest here, Karen and I share the same publisher, Black Death Books, who you might also want to check out, as their raison d'etre is precisely the genre you're interested in.

Willie
http://www.willie.meikle.btinternet.co.uk (http://www.willie.meikle.btinternet.co.uk/)

Grant Rhoades

10-21-2005, 07:38 PM

Thanks for the heads up williemeikle. I'll check it out ASAP.

pickman

10-22-2005, 02:29 AM

Personally, I am not that big on the vampire genre as it is nowadays. The films are too "pretty" and unscary, while the fiction has become incredibly cliched.

I once watched an episode of Buffy, where the characters enter an alternate universe in which Willow and Xander are vampires. The fact that Willow had become a vamp meant that she automatically had to dress like a PVC-clad dominatrix, as if a change in wardrobe was a biological necessity for being one of the undead. As much as I like seeing Alysson Hannigan in tight-fitting PVC, I just thought it was a ridiculous idea. And it is one I see in most vampire movies since 1990. It seems that being a vampire means dressing like a Goth/bondage enthusiast and looking sexy for the cameras. Before seeing your look replicated in every Goth nightclub around the country.

I would not even call most vampire movies nowadays "horror", despite how the TV guides classify them. Blade, although a good film, is not what I call horror. Nor is Underworld, etc. I think "dark fantasy" would be a more accurate term.

As for the fiction, it has already been done very well by the likes of Poppy Z Brite and (very early) Anne Rice (before she lost the plot completely). But relgious themes and dark gothic stories are not so popular now, because everyone seems to be doing them. The genre has become littered with cliches, and I personally would not even consider trying to sell a book or script about vampires for a long time yet, simply because it is difficult to come up with anything original.

I don't want to put a dampener on your enthusiasm - if you are that fired up about your idea, then go ahead and do it and get it out of your system. I have already written two vampire novels, neither if which are published. Both were my attempts at doing something original with the story by returning to the original folkloric vampires and sidestepping hollywood's style over substance. My main character from my first novel is one who I am very proud of, and has cropped up in my short fiction since then. My character was simply a walking corpse with fangs. He has more in common with Jason Vorhees than Lestat or Louis. The difficulties of leading a normal life when you have to drink blood has realistically led him to a life on the run from the police as a serial killer. Thanks to him, I sold my first piece of short fiction.

emeraldcite

10-22-2005, 03:15 AM

James Patterson did an interesting thing with vampires in Violets are Blue. Yeah, that James Patterson.

Like I said before, if it works, it works. You'll sell it and be happy. If it doesn't quite work, well, you can always move on and come back to it later.

Of course, if you wait to sell your vamp fiction, then you might miss the next wagon when it comes around instead of driving it. Write what you are inspired to write, then try to sell it as you work on your next piece. No one can predict the next trend or bestseller. If they could, they would be enormously rich and powerful...

BlueTexas

10-22-2005, 07:34 AM

I think the challenge would be to come up with vampire fiction that hasn't been done before. Find a new angle, a new slant on it--as far away from Anne Rice and Buffy as you can get.

emeraldcite

10-22-2005, 07:45 AM

I think it's important to either follow the mythology or create a new mythology around the idea of vampires. Of course, when speaking of vampires there are numerous kinds.

You have the uber-text, Stoker's Dracula (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0451523377/002-0377141-1308850?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance)
There is Anne Rice's world (http://www.annerice.com/)
Stephen King's version (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671039741/002-0377141-1308850?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance)
There are emotional vampires (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0071381678/002-0377141-1308850?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance), which I'm not sure if it's turned up in a novel yet...
Also, as I mentioned before, Patterson deals with real vampire subculture (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0446611212/002-0377141-1308850?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance)

Then there is vampirism in film. Buffy, Blade, Underworld, etc.

Yet, I think there is still room. These books span quite a number of years, so I think the possibilities are there. Can you do something, not necessarily new, but neat? That is the real question.

Ask yourself, what can you add to the mythology? Whatever it is that you add, that is how you sell it...

pickman

10-23-2005, 12:39 AM

Like I said before, if it works, it works. You'll sell it and be happy. If it doesn't quite work, well, you can always move on and come back to it later.

Of course, if you wait to sell your vamp fiction, then you might miss the next wagon when it comes around instead of driving it. Write what you are inspired to write, then try to sell it as you work on your next piece. No one can predict the next trend or bestseller. If they could, they would be enormously rich and powerful...

I think that the only way to get a vampire story published nowadays is through (mostly) small press horror zines. Short fiction seems to be the only way to go for this genre right now. The amount of book publishers with "No vampires" in their editorial guidelines is enough to ut me off the idea of writing another vampire novel. The same goes for writing a vamp screenplay I would imagine.

preyer

10-23-2005, 12:44 AM

and yet too many vampire authors still think dracula explodes in the sunlight. nope, he just loses a lot of his powers, but it doesn't kill him.

Grant Rhoades

10-23-2005, 12:57 AM

Hey guys, I finally figured out my route in doing this. Thanks for all the feed back, you made me think, doubt then made me want to go through with this even more. Now, to figure out the medium on which to write it...

veinglory

10-23-2005, 01:11 AM

One place that vampire books are stoill in demand is romance--other than that iot is a flooded market. As an avid reader of vampire fiction even I am very tired of Buffy-esque clones. I suggest you include at least one very original twist. So vampires and demons has rather been done (Angel etc). It could still be great but what woudl get my attention more is a new mythos. I don't kn0w, vampires and lephrecauns, selkies or dryads...

Grant Rhoades

10-23-2005, 05:06 AM

I'm thinking Vampires and Fallen Angels now.

pickman

10-23-2005, 05:00 PM

I'm thinking Vampires and Fallen Angels now.

Sorry to be a smartass, but demons and fallen angels are the same thing in many mythologies. Satan for example, was originally an angel of God, as were the rest of the denizens of Hell.

vipersmile

10-24-2005, 02:44 AM

I'm thinking of writing a vampire novel based on a magazine subscription that turns people into vampires. The publisher being Dracula.

Or perhaps a vampire who is the head shrink of an insane asylum, whereas, the people are not insane but under the curse.

preyer

10-24-2005, 03:38 AM

emeraldcite

10-24-2005, 05:23 AM

one of the most cliche parts of a lot of vampire stories is being a vamp is a 'curse,' as being immortal is some kind of hollow, empty feeling and only evil vampires revel in their 'condition.'

really want to cheese people off? make jesus a vampire.

actually, something close appeared in Dracula 2000. The movie is mediocre, but the twist almost makes it worthwhile. I won't spoil the ending.

Carole

10-24-2005, 01:54 PM

I think vampire fiction is much like that delicious unusual something you had for dinner while on vacation: You loved it. Mass produced knockoffs don't cut it. If you ever found something that tasty again you would jump at the chance.

Just because there is an abundance of so-so vampire novels that dance all around the same regurgitated stuff doesn't mean people wouldn't love to sink their *teeth* into a good one!

Hubby and I still rent every vampire movie that we find. We have watched an awful lot of pitiful efforts, but we never stop looking for the next great one.

preyer

10-25-2005, 01:29 AM

that's why i mention doing a screenplay. sure, i watch just about every awful vampire flick that heads my way, but reading is altogether different. for example, i think it was called 'underworld' that was a decent movie, but i doubt i could have actually read it as a book without gouging out my eyes. even most vampire movies aren't fun to watch, as if they have to take themselves oh-so-seriously.

Grant Rhoades

10-26-2005, 04:12 AM

Doing a screenplay is a good idea if your story is 120 pages long and that's IF it stays intact. The thing about scripts is that you cannot be overly descriptive. If you are that kind of person, then you’re better of writing a novel. If you can't let go of your idea then don't sell it cause I'm telling you, it will be mutilated. If you have no problems with the producer and director making your baby into what their vision is, then by all means. From what I've seen so far, you guys have written your ideas, you made something out of nothing. Its still hasn't been sold but if you have faith it will be. In the end, it's what's best for you as an individual.

sthrnwriter

10-26-2005, 01:50 PM

Did anyone think about taking a more reality based approach to the vampire concept? I'm not talking about a HLV (Humans living as Vampires) type scenerio. I'm not sure if there are any CSI buffs here but they did an episode in like season one or two about a woman with a disease called Porphyria. I looked up this disease and the symptoms and one treatment method are very similiar to vampire characteristics. Just a thought.

preyer

10-26-2005, 09:13 PM

unfortunately, grant, i don't buy into the notion that 'if you believe in yourself, good things will happen.' preachers and evangelists sell faith, publishers sell good stories. all the self-confidence in the world is a poor substitute for talent, if you ask me.

you're right in that script writing is a lot different from fiction writing. although i think it's wrong to make the leap from a 120 page story equalling a movie-length script, i'll grant that a 400 page novel most likely has to be have some major alterations to make it fit into even a two hour movie. and you're right, your script will be changed along the way unless you make the movie yourself, which is totally common. next time you're watching a low-budget movie, pay attention to who wrote it and who produced and/or directed and/or did the score (thanks, john carpenter, for making every talentless director out there think they can writer their own music, too).

what i think would be cute would be to make a whole online vampire newspaper. current events, op-ed, comics, obituaries, local news, lifestyle, etc.. hell, i'd probably even read the want ads. just something different instead of every third writer out there trying to re-invent vampire culture and practices and history.

Jaycinth

10-27-2005, 01:31 AM

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16547&highlight=vampire+fiction+dead

. . . vampire fiction is dead.... I don't know, I don't want to believe this but I still haven't sold my stuff. Will I keep writing it? Yeah, I love to but I will branch out to something salable too.
I don't mean to pick on you SC, but speaking from a purely technical monster/non monster standpoint... well, vampires ARE dead. Kinda.( un-dead..heh heh heh!)

Grant:I personally try to read vampire novels and hope that I find something new that sparks my imagination and interest. I treat ALL horror that way. I find vampires facinating creatures. I mean, mummies stink and are somewhat pointless.( Yeah yeah. we woke you up we plundered your tomb, no reason to stink up our coffee shop is there?) Werewolves are just tortured creatures, Just big dogs...perpetually the minion, never the master. Aliens can be interesting, but really they are just "THE CREATURE WITH NO NAME", Swamp creatures are just smelly misguided products of bent evolution, usually resulting from tampering with the environment ( can you say New-CUE-Ler?) Oh yes, and the monsters that are put together by scientists......CHILD ABUSE!!!! ( If it isn't pretty and if it doesn't behave the way the designer intended then they want to destroy it. The fiends)

But Vampires. Well they've been the subject of human tales since..... well every culture has stories of blood drinkers, don't they? Vampires are just human enough to be reasonable. They are of passing to high intellegence, and they don't want to be seen as monsters.

There is a lot of bad vampire fiction out there. And a lot more is being written everyday ( I know at least one 13 year old who writes a bad vampire story every other week.) But I believe there are good vampire stories being written, and the same goes for those that haven't been written yet.

Don't decide 'all of the vampire stories have been written'. They haven't been. You just need to take a new twist. Skirt the silly romance ( I say silly because although a vampire will have romantic entanglements he/she is NOT going to go all flowers and fuzzy wuzzy.) and the obvious bleeding gore. Put your vampire in a different place. Maybe she wakes up in a chinese tomb after being awakened by archaeologists. Maybe she's married to the candidate for the President of the US? Maybe she was living up the road form the Unibomber. Take your vampires and pump them full of 21st century (I think the Historical fiction market is flush with vampires so maybe it is time to branch away from that).

Write youself up a new vampire reality and us vamp stalkers will buy your books and sing your praises.

And a special hug to everyone who loves a good scare.

Gusk

10-27-2005, 10:21 PM

My very first crack at a short story was a vampyre story. No, that is not a typo, just my preference for spelling the word.
The problem is that it is almost 9000 words. Too lnog for a short story, and too short for a novel or novella. I've had trouble trying to get it published.

Anyone interested in reading it is more than welcome, even for a critique. I'm new to this writing thing, and could use all the wisdom people on this forum could provide.
Send me a note would love to hear from you. http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

gkatsars@yahoo.com

Sorry, 1 more thing, this is not a traditional vampyre storyline. It is a completely unique angle.

emeraldcite

10-28-2005, 12:33 AM

Take your vampires and pump them full of 21st century

Cyberpunk vampires? That could be interesting. Anyone up for a challenge?

Ankh

10-28-2005, 03:29 PM

Cyberpunk vampires? That could be interesting. Anyone up for a challenge?

That sounds pretty cool! ^_^

I think if you're gonna write a vampire story, you need to be original, but don't be afraid of taking some other ideas. As long as it isn't outright blatant copying, readers can deal with it. Hell, if it's good enough, they may even like it!

williemeikle

10-28-2005, 05:06 PM

williemeikle

10-28-2005, 05:09 PM

sthrnwriter

10-29-2005, 09:55 AM

Shaun Huston already did the Porphyria concept it. Can't remember the name of the book though....

Like I said before, it was just a thought. It doesn't really suprise me that someone has done that.

By the way, did anyone watch the A&E special tonight called "The Secret Life of Vampires"?

pickman

10-29-2005, 01:17 PM

I've written vampire novels, but mine are usually evil bloodthirsty b*stards with few redeeming features.

I like doing with that with my vampires as well. "Seductive" vamps bore me.

In fact, alot of my vamps don't even have fangs, as I like to take them closer to the original folkloric vampires. It also adds to the horror element of the story I think, because having fangs makes extracting blood from people too easy. My vamps often come up with new and interesting ways of making people bleed.

I watched an interesting vamp movie last night actually - 'Nadja'. Another weird David Lynch film, but it wasn't bad. I have certainly seen worse.

Sad to hear that Bite Me magazine is now defunct. I used to like that mag.

Emeraldcite - do you mean 'cyberpunk' in the original William Gibson sense of the word? Because that would be interesting. If you just mean straight Sci-fi, I think it has been done by Matheson in I Am Legend.

emeraldcite

10-29-2005, 03:27 PM

do you mean 'cyberpunk' in the original William Gibson sense of the word

Yes. The whole Gibson thing with fangs (or without). It would be a nice twist and would also show how vamps fit into that worldviews.

No vampires in space...lol

although....

"This is the Starship Type A. Please respond warm-blooded planet in our scopes. Ahh. Your lack of response is pleasing. We shall beam down shortly and suck your planet dry. Thank you and please enjoy the last waking moments you have."

Ankh

10-30-2005, 12:03 AM

I've written vampire novels, but mine are usually evil bloodthirsty b*stards with few redeeming features. They don't wear Armani, they're not big on chat, they spend no time at all bemoaning their lot in life, and they don't get to snog teenage blondes.

They do however get to bite people. A lot. :)

My favourite quote from one of my reviews, in the sadly defunct Glasgwegian "Bite Me" magazine said: "Essential reading.... if you are literate, and if you want the vampire genre to grow beyond the stagnant velvet clad fops that perpetuate [modern] fiction."

I knew my job was done :)

Willie
http://www.willie.meikle.btinternet.co.uk

Truely evil vampires, I see. They are perfectly fine antagontists, but I think sometime or another, we'll need to throw out more stories with protagontist vampires. We can still have them as the enemies, but now and then we need a vampiric good guy. One that'll stand up to his own, another clan, or perhaps an evil humanity.

Mike Coombes

10-30-2005, 02:27 AM

In my stint working as an editor for NFG magazine I'd say 50% or more of all the horror genre subs I read were vampire based. Of those, 90% were buffy rip-offs/inspired and the other 10% were cliche unremittingly poor.

There is a place for vampire fiction, I guess (although the Rice woman is trying hard to prove otherwise) but for god's sake, people, find a new slant!

For instance - my nomination for best vampire novel of the last 50 years - Silence of the lambs.

Vampires don't HAVE to be stereotype undead automata.

emeraldcite

10-30-2005, 02:46 AM

my nomination for best vampire novel of the last 50 years - Silence of the lambs.

Vampires don't HAVE to be stereotype undead automata.

I enjoyed applied vampirism the most. It's fun to deal with it on a concept level rather than straight up rice or stoker.

My wife is a manager at a book store and when I told her about this conversation she said that the few people who still put out vampire books (like that woman who writes the humorous ones) can't keep up with the demand of "gothic readers" because no one's really publishes this genre en masse.

She said that people come in all the time looking for "new" vampire novels and can't find anything. It's out there.

I'm not even reallly a fan of vampires. I'm more a zombie person (so vampires are a sub-category of my likings, although I prefer zombie hoards over cultured zombies).