What's wrong with Gay Politicians?

It is the height of hypocrisy. Did I spell hypocrisy right?

Being gay is not a sickness. Lust for power, OTOH, is apparently a more powerful addiction than anything Owsley ever cooked up. Some people just can't resist it, even though they know that if their lying and stealing and prostituting themselves to obtain another fix gets found out, it may completely destroy their lives.

Give me a heroin addict over a politician any day.

Don said:

Give me a heroin addict over a politician any day.

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Not me. I've been friends with people who became heroin addicts, and I never want to see that happen to anyone again.

As for the OP: Harvey Milk. He went into politics because he wanted to help gay people. The movie had me bawling like a baby.

Don Allen said:

Roy Ashbury, the latest in the long line of Gay bashers and lawmakers comes out of whatever closet still exists.

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I just spent some time with some americans that were visiting. Wonderful folks, compassionate, dedicated, professional. One was from the midwest and the other was from Atlanta. They were in Sweden to possibly be recruited by a games company in town, and were staying at a friend of mine who works there.

Of course we talked politics. The situation in the middle east came up. And these people kept talking about how terrible the old regimes were and that the people of the middle east deserved democracy and freedom and tolerance, because what they had now "was so gay."

Don Allen said:

Roy Ashbury, the latest in the long line of Gay bashers and lawmakers comes out of whatever closet still exists.

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The lady doth protest too much.

Don Allen said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8556852.stm.

<snip>

Roy Ashburn, the latest in the long line of Gay bashers and lawmakers comes out of whatever closet still exists.

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This is very old news--it's from last March.

http://thatgayblog.com/news/anti-gay-calif-politician-cited-dui-after-leaving-gay-bar

http://thatgayblog.com/news/roy-ashburn-im-gay

http://thatgayblog.com/news/roy-ashburn-says-hes-sorry-sort

We have a thread on AW here:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173411&highlight=Ashburn

Devil Ledbetter said:

The lady doth protest too much.

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That's probably not as witty as you mean it to be.

Maxinquaye said:

because what they had now "was so gay."

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That is common American slang and doesn't necessarily equate into anything to do with homosexuality, either negatively or positively. Insensitive, possibly, but calling something "gay" is rarely meant to deride homosexuals. I'm not sure what word the younger generation here uses to express the some idea. Might be the same, but I don't recall hearing any of my kids friends using it.

Right. A gay person sits at a table with other people and hear that "gay" is bad and inferior, and an adequate descriptor for a bad and inferior state. S/he is oversensitive for taking that personally.

I suppose then that I as a middle aged white guy can use the word "niggered" with impunity, or "kiked", because I won't mean anything bad with the word, since I'm not racist or antisemitic.

Medievalist said:

That's probably not as witty as you mean it to be.

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Sorry.

Maxinquaye said:

Right. A gay person sits at a table with other people and hear that "gay" is bad and inferior, and an adequate descriptor for a bad and inferior state. S/he is oversensitive for taking that personally.

I suppose then that I as a middle aged white guy can use the word "niggered" with impunity, or "kiked", because I won't mean anything bad with the word, since I'm not racist or antisemitic.

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Never said it was right or wrong, but please, continue to judge. You are quite good at it.

Of course you do realize that the word "fag" is highly insulting in America. Maybe those damn Brits should stop using it so much.

Maxinquaye said:

Right. A gay person sits at a table with other people and hear that "gay" is bad and inferior, and an adequate descriptor for a bad and inferior state. S/he is oversensitive for taking that personally.

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Users may not intend or be aware of the freight the word carries, but it does in fact carry that freight.

Maxinquaye said:

I suppose then that I as a middle aged white guy can use the word "niggered" with impunity, or "kiked", because I won't mean anything bad with the word, since I'm not racist or antisemitic.

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Obviously, those aren't OK either, but I do want to point out that niggardly is a real word that has no relationship, etymologically or semantically with nigger or negro. It's used not only by Chaucer, but before Chaucer, and is likely derived from Old Norse hnoggr, meaning small, or thin.

Prozyan said:

That is common American slang and doesn't necessarily equate into anything to do with homosexuality, either negatively or positively. Insensitive, possibly, but calling something "gay" is rarely meant to deride homosexuals. I'm not sure what word the younger generation here uses to express the some idea. Might be the same, but I don't recall hearing any of my kids friends using it.

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Actually, it does equate with gay = homosexual, and it's easily demonstrable in context.

"That's so gay" is directly derived from the heteronormative association of gay with effeminate behavior and the larger cultural assumptions that being gay is a a negative.

Medievalist said:

Users may not intend or be aware of the freight the word carries, but it does in fact carry that freight.

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Which is all I was trying to convey. It is a common word and few people who use it consider the possible negative aspect of it. In other words, when used, it isn't used to hurt intentionally.

Medievalist said:

Obviously, those aren't OK either, but I do want to point out that niggardly is a real word that has no relationship, etymologically or semantically with nigger or negro. It's used not only by Chaucer, but before Chaucer, and is likely derived from Old Norse hnoggr, meaning small, or thin.

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But of course, using the correct and appropriate english word "Niggardly" can land you into trouble.

http://old.nationalreview.com/derbyshire/derbyshire091702.asp

That link goes to National Review, which lampoons the PC of our modern days, but it does contain some examples of how the word has landed people in some trouble.

Maxinquaye said:

But of course, using the correct and appropriate english word "Niggardly" can land you into trouble.

http://old.nationalreview.com/derbyshire/derbyshire091702.asp

That link goes to National Review, which lampoons the PC of our modern days, but it does contain some examples of how the word has landed people in some trouble.

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Yes. Because the people higher up were idiots.

Prozyan said:

Which is all I was trying to convey. It is a common word and few people who use it consider the possible negative aspect of it. In other words, when used, it isn't used to hurt intentionally.

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Kind of like using the word nutjob. People use these sorts of words all the time but until they're standing on the other side of the fence sometimes it's hard to see why others get upset. But on that side of the fence it's hard to see how they don't understand why it's a derogatory word. Hard to win.

Indeed. Retard or retarded is another one. There are tons of such words.

However, the fact they are widely used with little thought given to the feelings of others is in no way indicative of larger cultural values. Someone who uses the term nutjob doesn't necessarily go around abusing or looking down on people with mental illness. Someone who uses the word retarded doesn't necessarily go around bullying the handicapped. And, someone who uses the phrase gay isn't necessarily homophobic or anti-gay.

As I said, use of such words might be insensitive or thoughtless, but it is rarely malicious.

This ties into the OP. Not that this particular politician is a good example, since afaik he's a pernicious blight upon creation as far as equal rights come. If all you ever hear is that you're bad, inferior, and when your surrounding throw around reinforcements of the inferiority - is it any wonder your self worth gets so skewed and twisted that all you can do is to hide that side of your nature? Even to the point of actually working against that nature, because if you work against that nature, then you might overcome it?

It's sad and sick, in a way. Earlier there were the teen suicides that are now swept under the rug because there's more "pressing" matters do discuss, although as we speak lgbt teens are fingering the rope or the gun or the pill bottle because everyone around them is reinforcing that "gay" is bad and inferior and contemptible. And adults that should know better don't take that seriously "because everyone uses those words, and it doesn't mean anything". Let me tell you, it means the fucking world to the boy or the girl that always hears it and relates it to his or her place in the world, and relates it to his or her value as a human being.

As one of the profoundly lucky people who have a family that loves and supports me even if I turned out to be a bisexual transhuman anarchist libertarian furry (Pretty much the single worst combination of things in the history of ever), I can still say that hearing people call something "totally gay" still makes my teeth gnash and grind.

And I have stability and love. I hate to imagine what people who don't have that support feel.

MacAllister said:

Actually, the opposite is true.

The "fact that they are widely used with little thought given to the feelings of others" is precisely and emphatically indicative of larger cultural values, even though such expressions may not indicate the individual's values or beliefs.

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Of course, such words entered the mainstream through cultural acceptance of the words. However, that does not necessarily equate to current cultural values and drawing such comparisons is a risky proposition. We all know that once something enters the mainstream its meaning, context and intent can and does often change. Assuming continued use of a word that has been in the mainstream for sometime indicates some sort of current cultural belief is sketchy at best.

As even you admitted, most people use such words without thought to the negative connotations. I would argue the use of such words is simply because it is what they have heard used in the past and what they have learned to associate with a given action. And, as you said, the use of such words are not indicative of an individuals values or beliefs. If this is true, it must also hold true that a cultures use of such words are not indicative of larger current cultural values.

I can still say that hearing people call something "totally gay" still makes my teeth gnash and grind.

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I'm sure it does and it should. I hear words all the time that annoy me. However, I don't make assumptions of a person's beliefs or values based on the use of a common word, especially if it is in a common context. Doing so is a dangerous practice. The simple fact is most people open their mouths and say shit without a thought of the deeper meaning of their words. They call something gay because that's what they've heard their whole lives. They call something retarded because that is what they've heard their whole lives. Not necessarily because they look down on homosexuals or the handicapped.

Prozyan said:

Of course you do realize that the word "fag" is highly insulting in America. Maybe those damn Brits should stop using it so much.

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But in Britain fag has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality at all. It's slang for cigarette. I'm not sure how me saying I'm dying for a ciggie offends anyone. Except anti-smokers, and then only if I actually light it up where I'm not supposed to.

Or will you stop saying fanny for arse, because it means something quite different over here....

Or do we have to limit our slang because of what it might mean several thousand miles away, when here it means nothing like what it means to you? I wouldn't use it in the US, but why not use it here?

Gay is the same, UK and US, and has the same connotations, and really should not be used in such a way as Max had to hear.


PS I may be British but I'm not damned, thanks.