Death with Dignity

JayD

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I Am A. It's where someone creates a post then sticks around and answers questions for a while, also known as an AMA (Ask Me Anything). They've had celebrities, politicians, everyday people... and in this case a cancer patient with more courage and dignity in his left toenail than I'll ever have.

They've got a google map and a thread going with well over a thousand people checking in to say hi from all over the world.
 

GeorgeK

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How would someone be able to say that they have 51 hours to live? Is this an assisted suicide situation? The beginning of the thread at the link had no useful information that I could find. I have not the energy to wade through the 9000 or so posts.
 

Invincibility

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How would someone be able to say that they have 51 hours to live? Is this an assisted suicide situation? The beginning of the thread at the link had no useful information that I could find. I have not the energy to wade through the 9000 or so posts.
From the post that was linked to:

"On Tuesday I'll finally end my battle with cancer thanks to Oregon's Death with dignity act. As part of my preparations I've ended my pain medication and am trying to regain what little dignity and clarity I can."
 

GeorgeK

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From the post that was linked to:

"On Tuesday I'll finally end my battle with cancer thanks to Oregon's Death with dignity act. As part of my preparations I've ended my pain medication and am trying to regain what little dignity and clarity I can."

That doesn't explain if they are simply witholding treatment or if euthenasia will be employed. It could mean either. Specifying a countdown of 51 hours with such a vague statement suggests one of three things
1. euthenasia
2. total lack of understanding of medicine
3. a hoax
 

Mr Flibble

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I think the Oregon Death with dignity act' part gives it away

On October 27, 1997 Oregon enacted the Death with Dignity Act which allows terminally-ill Oregonians to end their lives through the voluntary self-administration of lethal medications, expressly prescribed by a physician for that purpose.
Could still be a hoax, but I like to think not.

If that were me, I'd have the biggest damn party - and that's just what he's doing. A party online.


Excuse me while I go and have a small sniffle.
 

Gretad08

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I read through a lot of posts on the link. The OP said that tomorrow, doctors will give him a lethal cocktail of drugs, but he has to administer them himself through his IV.

This is tremendously sad and bittersweet. He's only 39. I don't blame him one single bit. A cancer death is horribly painful and undignified. At least the one I recently had the horror of watching.
 

GeorgeK

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I wonder what they'll use. That's one of the times that pharmacy grade heroin might be a good choice, but I doubt they could get it.
 

GeorgeK

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... tomorrow, doctors will give him a lethal cocktail of drugs, but he has to administer them himself through his IV.
....

Just to be picky since this is a case where definitions and alternate meanings could be hazardous, the doctors will "provide," not "give," the cocktail, since that could be construed as administering it.
 

Gretad08

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Just to be picky since this is a case where definitions and alternate meanings could be hazardous, the doctors will "provide," not "give," the cocktail, since that could be construed as administering it.

:rulez Nit picker LOL.

You're right, my apologies.
 

CACTUSWENDY

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http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207090


We already have a thread with this topic.
 

Dommo

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I was first :p

But in all seriousness, having seen my mom die of cancer so drugged up she couldn't recognize me, I'd take the option of utilizing a death by dignity type of program.

The thing I've wondered, is that there is a real conflict of interest between what is best for the patient, and what is best for the hospital/doctor. When my mom was in the home stretch, it was costing our insurance on the order of 2-3 grand a DAY for her treatment. That kind of money does make me wonder if hospitals just try to keep people alive for the sake of milking more money from them.
 

rugcat

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That kind of money does make me wonder if hospitals just try to keep people alive for the sake of milking more money from them.
Hospitals are staffed by people. Do you know any doctors, personally? Or nurses? Or even administrators?

If you do, ask them. I'm sure they won't be offended.

There's cynical, and then there's just nonsensical.
 

Dommo

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As someone who works in hospitals and clinics on a regular basis, I can assure you that the staff are humans, but the system isn't (in fact I know dozens of doctors and administrators).

The billing systems in a hospitals are designed to try to maximize the revenue they make off of patients that come into the facility (Yay for paying 40 bucks for a bandage). There's nothing nonsensical at all about wondering if some hospitals/doctors are putting their checkbooks ahead of patients, when there is an obvious incentive for doing so. Don't get me wrong, I met some great doctors during my mom's cancer treatment, but I also saw the way that charges were grossly inflated on materials and medicines that weren't that expensive.

Even for us in public health care, it's still a business to an extent, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise (that by no means suggests we don't care about our patients, in fact I go to great lengths to ensure their safety). The point is that everything has a price, and when someone's life is on the line, prices start to stop being issues, because people will pay because they have to pay.
 
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rugcat

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Even for us in public health care, it's still a business to an extent, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise (that by no means suggests we don't care about our patients, in fact I go to great lengths to ensure their safety). The point is that everything has a price, and when someone's life is on the line, prices start to stop being issues, because people will pay because they have to pay.
The entire healthcare system for profit is a terrible model and affects health care, no doubt of that. On the most basic level, people without money are less likely to receive aggressive, and especially pricey treatment than those with money,

But that's a far cry from suggesting that there are doctors sitting around thinking, "that woman only has a few days to live -- but if we discontinue her morphine drip, maybe she'll last as much as a week and we can rake in some extra dough" and using that as a basis for their therapeutic decisions.
 

Dommo

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I'm not saying that most doctors do that, but I'm saying that having a huge financial incentive to do that kind of thing, creates an environment where the temptation is always there.

I know for a fact that the business aspect of healthcare does impact the availability of services, and the cost of healthcare. For example, one of the reasons we're expanding our diagnostic imaging facilities (not the sole reason, but it's one of the big ones), is because it can generate a lot of revenue relative to the cost. Think about it. You can charge people 500-1000 bucks a pop, there's very little risk to the patient's health, you reduce the cost of the medical liability insurance, you can do a patient every 30 minutes, and you only need a few staff.

I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying that the business realities of health care have a HUGE impact on the end result patient care. Call me paranoid, but when we're talking of cancer bills that are running into the 1+ million dollar range like my mom's, you can't help but wonder.
 

GeorgeK

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Most of the running up of the bills that I've seen was due to estranged family members Who treated Uncle Edgar like crud his entire life, never visited or called or showed up to reunions. They were never there to help him through the chemo sessions or radiation, never helped in his stoma care. Then after the prolonged battle that Edgar had decided was finally not worth fighting anymore and was on his deathbed with one true friend at his side, the "family" shows up wanting "everything to be done", so they can assuage their own guilt and be able to name drop caretakers at the probate hearing.

If you have estranged family, don't tell them that you are dying. Tell those that you do care about to not tell them. They were assholes to you your whole life. They will not actually comfort you and they will stress out the nurses and doctors with their harassment lowering your remaining quality of life.

AS has also been said, the hospitals don't want you to take home meds or use your own equipment. Part of that is to be sure that you are actually getting what you are supposed to and not something else, because a LOT of patients don't use their meds appropropriately at home and their unlabelled pills might be something other than what they claim. Part of it is a way to inflate the bill. The way around that is have the Doctor write an order, "OK for patient to use glucometer and meds from home, Nurse to witness and document." Afterwards, do not pay the bill until you have an itemized bill and make sure that they did not tack on stuff you didn't use. They are legally required to provide an itemized bill if you ask for it.
 
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kayleamay

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I wonder what they'll use. That's one of the times that pharmacy grade heroin might be a good choice, but I doubt they could get it.

They usually prescribe a lethal dose of oral barbituates, but utlimately it's up to the prescribing doc.

Death with Dignity FAQ

ETA: Regarding the derail, I have seen many a family insist that ninety-four-year old grandma remain a full code and stay on life support in the ICU indefinitely, but I have yet to find a doctor who wants to milk a death for more money. Our culture views death in an unhealthy manner. I also am fairly certain that an unconsented circumcision would result in a lawsuit faster than an OB/GYN could say "foreskin", and aside from a possible error (yes, they do happen) can't see this as realistic.

As far as hospital policies regarding blood sugar checks and using personal medications, it has more to do with patient compliance and our cultural love of lawsuits than anything else. If Uncle Pete goes into the hospital for hypertension and is left to take his own medications to control his blood pressure, but doesn't and has a stroke, who do they blame? Uncle Pete or the hospital that was supposed to be caring for him?
 
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