History of Repetition Being Bad in English?

Rachel Udin · Mar 4, 2011

Anyone know if English always saw repetition as a bad attribute? Or if it came with the later development.

I'm curious considering that the other languages I know don't regard repetition in their languages as a bad thing and it's often used as a modifier to emphasize the information, though in English it seems to be considered less potent to repeat.

Linguists or sources preferred.

Deleted member 42 · Mar 4, 2011

Repetition describes an entire class of rhetorical figures.

Repetition in and of itself is not bad, and can be an asset.

Consider this speech of Winston Churchill:

We Shall Fight on the Beaches said:
We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

Lil · Mar 4, 2011

I have been told that after speaking that passage Churchill turned to the side and said, "And we shall hit them over the head with beer bottles because that is all we have."

Chase · Mar 4, 2011

Churchill's speech is an excellent example.

Inspired by William James’s teachings involving the psychology of learning, Gertrude Stein experimented with repetition in literature, parallel to the art of her life-long friend, Pablo Picasso.

They inspired and encouraged others at the forefront of a modernist movement, part of which made bold use of old and new repetitive forms.

William Carlos Williams, Virginia Woolf, Ernest Hemingway, James Joyce, T.S. Eliot, e.e. cummings, Ezra Pound, and F. Scot Fitzgerald were only a few in that movement.

Sarah Madara · Mar 4, 2011

Rachel Udin said:
Anyone know if English always saw repetition as a bad attribute? Or if it came with the later development.

Not a linguist, just curious where you got the idea that repetition was bad? It can be very powerful when used correctly, and was one of the styles of writing that we had to study and imitate in my writing class. The instructor called it "To be Read and Sung." I've never seen the use of repetition criticized except when overdone or done poorly.

Ferret · Mar 4, 2011

As others have stated, repetition can be used effectively.

Redundant phrasing is generally considered bad, though. Maybe that's what you mean? I'm not sure about the history of it, but redundancy makes a sentence less concise, and this seems to be the main problem. I've always hated the phrase "In my opinion, I think" which makes it sound as if the speaker isn't even sure of his own brain function. "ATM machine" is problematic, too, although I heard "ATM 'achine" once and loved it. "Big and large" adds words without adding meaning.

Here's a link on redundancies. http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/avoiding-redundancy.aspx

Rachel Udin · Mar 5, 2011

I'm not asking for cases where it is used effectively... I know such cases, but some of the cases where it's used badly isn't seen as bad in other languages. So I'm wondering if someone knows why that is the case from a historical perspective.

It's not the cases of specific redundancy, but for example the wisdom of something like:

I really really really like you.

Most conventional wisdom would say you only need one really, but in some languages that's a sign of emphasis, not devalue.

Or even using the same noun, some people say to switch it.

So if you are talking about a switch, people say to change the switch to something else. (This particular style thing I never got.)

So for example,
I turned the switch off, grabbed a screwdriver and flipped the switch over.

In most cases, people say look for a synonym for the second switch.

Also the convention to "change up" the sentences.

So I went to the park and saw Dan. I met Lucy there.

In some languages that's fine. In English too much of it and people say that the sentence structure is "boring."

So I wanted to know if it was built into the Germanic or the French or just inherited from both or if it came later.

Speeches are a different animal as are poetry. Repetition in both is honored and encouraged. I'm mostly interested in the convention of prose.

I have a few loose theories about *why* this is, but I'm curious to see if anyone has studied the history of it.

RobJ · Mar 5, 2011

Rachel Udin said:
So for example,
I turned the switch off, grabbed a screwdriver and flipped the switch over.

In most cases, people say look for a synonym for the second switch.

Could you be more specific? Which people say this? Where have you heard it said?

Thanks.

LynnKHollander · Mar 5, 2011

The offered examples are too ambigious. Try longer samples, with more context.

Deleted member 42 · Mar 5, 2011

Rachel Udin said:
In some languages that's fine. In English too much of it and people say that the sentence structure is "boring."

I think you're talking to the wrong people.

English is rich with synonyms; few of them are identical in connotation.

Parallelism, among other rhetorical tropes seen as beneficial to prose, relies on patterned repetition.

Rachel Udin · Mar 6, 2011

A better example:

"Light of the heart were replaced by the light of the streetlights."

In this sentence no one feels that "Light" could be switched for a synonym or that the sentence should be condensed?

That type of repetition. Strictly speaking, "Light" in the first instance is a different meaning than the other two.

But anyway, I'm more interested in the history of the usage of repetition in comparison to other languages where in English it might seem like a redundancy, but in other languages it's not... but it doesn't seem like there are linguists around to answer the historical aspect.

I have no disputes with when and where, just when in time.

Sarah Madara · Mar 6, 2011

Rachel Udin said:
A better example:

"Light of the heart were replaced by the light of the streetlights."

In this sentence no one feels that "Light" could be switched for a synonym or that the sentence should be condensed?

No, it's clear the word choice has a purpose. It highlights the metaphor.

PeterL · Mar 6, 2011

I don't know where you got the idea that repetition is "bad" in English. It can be boring, but more often it has a reasonable meaning of use. The use of reprtition in English has more history than the idea that such repetition might be bad. If you want references for that, then you might start with your post that started this thread.

maestrowork · Mar 6, 2011

Repetition is a wonderful tool as rhetorics or emphasis. It's a stylistic choice. Everything overused is bad, but not bad by itself. Usually, though, you should avoid redundancy or repetition unless you're aiming for an effect. For example, "she's a gorgeous, beautiful woman" is just dumb.

History of Repetition Being Bad in English?

Rachel Udin

Deleted member 42

Lil

Chase

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Sarah Madara

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Ferret

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Rachel Udin

RobJ

LynnKHollander

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Deleted member 42

Rachel Udin

Sarah Madara

Freeway stomper extraordinaire

PeterL

maestrowork

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