Fetus to testify

According to From Conception to Birth by Alexander Tsiaras, there is technically a heart--and a heartbeat--at 21-23 days after conception, well within the first month. At this point, many women still don't even know they're pregnant, and miscarriages are incredibly common. The fetus is smaller than the type on this post.

It's a stunt and nothing more...

The heartbeat of the fetus will be visible in color.

Click to expand...

Spiders also have heartbeats.

So are ultrasounds that detect a heartbeat some kind of breaking news to these people? I thought we'd all seen these a million times.

I've seen it with my own kid and remained unmoved, because I was so sick from pregnancy that I had actually hoped he would turn out to be some kind of horrible tumor and then I burst into tears when I got proof this was an actual baby and this was my actual reaction to being pregnant. In retrospect, I'm grateful for that heartbeat because he's a pretty cool little guy. In the moment, though... eh.

I had enough support that I never had to consider it, but women abort PLANNED and WANTED babies every year because of intractable hyperemesis (vomiting). It is a torture beyond imagination, and only one of many, many pregnancy situations you can't comprehend until you live it.

Okay, I will step off soapbox. My not-a-tumor kid needs something.

According to Genesis 2:7 life begins with the first breath.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Click to expand...

I wonder if a woman were to suffer a spontaneous abortion because of industrial pollution, like at Love Canal or Three Mile Island, CEOs and managers would be charged under the proposed law.

thothguard51 said:

It's a stunt and nothing more...

Click to expand...

It's a stunt, sure, but in the current anti-abortion climate, will it gain traction? Even if you assume it has no chance of passing, is it possible that it could help shape the debate?

Stunt, yes. Nothing more? I wouldn't be so quick to say that.

If a "medically detectable heartbeat" becomes a standard by which the legality of abortions are judged, by the time most women realized they were pregnant and scheduled the abortion, the abortion would be illegal.

There are plenty of pro-lifers who would love to see that be the case, and the current crop of Republicans are pushing for it...hard.

This is about the so-called heartbeat bill, HB 125, with 50 co-sponsors.

Section 2919.19, C(1) seems to be the key passage here.

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=129_HB_125


I seriously doubt this would withstand the courts. My understanding of Roe is that states can regulate the procedure, but can't de facto or de jure outlaw the procedure.

breaking news: a navy veteran in the courtroom noticed that the baby's heartbeat was actually in morse code and translated it as, "please don't kill me, mommy. i'll be good."

"Please place your right upper limb bud on the Bible and repeat after me."

Charlie Sheen was once a fetus with a heartbeat.

From the above link:

(2) "Fetal heartbeat" means cardiac activity or the steady and repetitive rhythmic contraction of the fetal heart within the gestational sac.

(3) "Fetus" means the human offspring developing during pregnancy from the moment of conception and includes the embryonic stage of development.

Click to expand...

That's 21-23 days.

(E)(1) Except as provided in division (E)(2) or (3) of this section, no person shall knowingly perform an abortion on a pregnant woman with the specific intent of causing or abetting the termination of the life of the unborn human individual that the pregnant woman is carrying and whose fetal heartbeat has been detected according to the requirements of division (C) of this section.

Click to expand...

Anyone else notice how the writers of the bill had no problem writing "fetal heartbeat" but avoided the word "fetus", even though it meant writing out "unborn human individual that the pregnant woman is carrying" every single time? For that matter, anyone notice how directly that particular wording works to separate the mother from the fetus in the readers' mind?

Faith2Action, the anti-abortion group that has targeted Ohio to pilot the measure, called the in-utero witness the youngest to ever come before the House Health Committee at 9 weeks old.

Click to expand...

So now we're counting our ages starting at gestation rather than birth? Crap...my birthday's come and gone. Oh, wait, no it hasn't. I guess my conceptionday has come and gone. No one even bought me cake.

It's okay, though. I'd feel weird celebrating my parents getting it on in the back of their car...

Thanks to that court hearing, I am now officially creeped out by unborn babies.

Seriously though, wtf?

Shadow Dragon said:

According to pro-life groups, fetuses are individual people, correct? So to testify, wouldn't it have to be able to put its hand on a bible and swear to tell the truth?

Click to expand...

But what if it chooses to be an atheist?

Also, what's the point? As an individual, the fetus could only speak for itself, not for fetuskind. Can't base a legislation on that, can you?

I was listening to the news on the way home last night. In Texas, the leg is trying to pass a bill (like in other places) requiring a woman to have a sonogram 24-72 hours before an abortion. The sponsor was an old dude. A female rep from Houston took the floor and, I paraphrase, this exchange happened:

She: "I think people should know, we're not talking about gel on the belly sonograms here, you're forcing women to have an intrusive procedure."

He, pausing, thinking of something to say: "Well, it's... it's less intrusive than the abortion itself."

She: "How would you know?"

Brilliant.

So, can anything with a heartbeat testify at this hearing?

I've got this goat...

(only about half facetiously...)

What's it's name? Fester? Cletus? Yikes, I hope it's not a girl.