Wrestler Refuses to Fight Girl at State

I think he knew the girl was going to kick his ass.

Noah Body said:

I think he knew the girl was going to kick his ass.

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Same here. Though yeah, it is bs for him to back out like that. It shows a lot of disrespect to her as a fellow competitor.

If I am remembering right, the boy lost in the second round after the forfeit. There were two girls in the match. The two girls also both lost with the girl who refused to fight going 1-2. I would have to look up the follow-up story.

The guy stood up for his beliefs. The girls weren't really that deprived since they fought against other guys. But there was a very valid point, there is no girl's team in wrestling.

The problem with chauvinism is that it's a philosophy rooted in the concept of women as weaker to men and thus needing their protection. Shoving women into the 'weak box' is...well, bad.

Now, that doesn't mean you can't open a door for a girl or be polite to her. The difference is the headspace behind your actions: Are you opening the door for a weak girl as a sign of your manly alpha malness, or are you doing that for an equal?

I'm fairly confident that most people fall firmly in the latter.

Refusing to fight a woman in a tournament based around physical prowess is, in my opinion, just as good as saying, "You're too weak, I won't fight you because I might hurt you, so I'm just going to surrender and invalidate everything you win after this point."

Not only did he feel it was inappropriate to engage a girl in a physical fight, but he felt their bodily contact would be inappropriate according to his religious beliefs. That doesn't bother me a bit. If he's trying to live his life a certain way, like avoiding close physical contact with a girl, good for him for making a mature decision to bow out of the match.

The quotes from both sets of parents involved show class and poise IMO. Both parents spoke highly of the other competitor, and the girl's dad said that not only did he respect the decision of the boy to forfeit the match, but he'd also heard of the great reputation of the boy and his family.

I side with the boy. Call me old fashioned. I don't think I'm comfortable with co-ed wrestling.

Shadow_Ferret said:

I don't think I'm comfortable with co-ed wrestling.

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Where I'm from, we call that "sex".

charlotte820 said:

No, me neither, but the thing with self-defense is that the only way to learn it is through that kind of practical application. Every self-defense workshop I can think of has co-ed demonstrations. But if everyone thought like he did, then women wouldn't have any experience fending off male attackers until a crisis was upon them. There are religious people who understand that, surely, that's the worse of two evils.

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That's an improbable, impossible hypothetical...one of those "If Grandma had a moustache she'd be Grandpa" sort of things.

I agree that self defense classes are useful, but there will always be people willing to teach them and engage a woman in this sort of contact. If it makes him uncomfortable, well, good for him for saying so.

Okay. I spent a number of years in MMA. I've wrestled co-ed, I've wrestled female only. Without details, I'll say teenage boys may have... a specific reason to not want to wrestle a female. I learned this very quickly while teaching and the poor kid never looked me in the eye again.

He doesn't feel comfortable. He's allowed. I don't honestly fault him.

After watching a clip on ABC about this incident, I feel more comfortable with these boys wrestling the girls. However I'd also give the boy a break for pulling out.

It's after all a very physical sport, and even though they've separated the athletes by weight groups, males still should have the advantage. It's not exactly a fair sport. It's also a bigger ego catastrophe when the girls win. Furthermore, what will happen when a boy slaps the girl on her chest as a tactical combat move? Is that a foul? Can she sue the hell out of him? There are lots of possibilities. But I don't know their rules. Maybe everything is covered.

As for a guy opening the door for women. I do it all the time, because it's the best chance of adoring their cleavages. Chivalry? What is it?

tiny said:

Without details, I'll say teenage boys may have... a specific reason to not want to wrestle a female.

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B00biez!

1. This story is a few days old.

2. The girl wrestler involved is from my home town, went to my old high school, so I have a minor local amusement connection.

3. I have no problem with the boy's decision. It was forthright, based on his beliefs, it cost him a significant athletic opportunity, and he carried out his decision straightforwardly and honorably. Nobody has the right to criticize him, or that decision. I applaud him. So should everyone else.

4. The girl involved also acted with complete honor, and she and one other girl who made it to this state tournament are to be applauded as well for their athletic accomplishment.

In the state of Iowa, the sport of amateur wrestling has long been a major event for high school and college. The three state universities have all been powers in this sport nationally. The University of Iowa, in particular, won a long stretch of national championships in wrestling in the 1980s-1990s. For the state, this is a non-trivial event. Kudos to all involved, nothing bad about this story in any respect.

blacbird said:

Kudos to all involved, nothing bad about this story in any respect.

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I like agreeing with blacbird, it happens so seldom.

Ayep... no villains in this one.

I'm a female martial artist. In well over fifteen years of experience, almost every man I've fought has fallen into one of three categories:

1) refusal or attempted refusal. The last one, when placed against me in full-contact fighting by a sensei who would not take "no" for an answer, made little slappy motions while laughing and saying, "ooh, stop it." I gave him three hard knees to the crotch, and he never pulled that crap again.

2) an attempt to hurt me. The logic goes like this: I'm going to hurt you now, just enough to give you a taste of what can happen, so that you'll stop this nonsense and go back to...whatever it is girls are supposed to do. My usual response is to step up the violence until the match is called, even if it results in consequences.

3) fighting me harder than they'd fight a guy of my rank and size. They don't want to lose. I can deal with that.

The majority of men fall in category three, in my experience. Even if they don't think they will, most of the guys I've fought start to get a little embarrassed and step it up...and if that don't work, they step it up again. And again.

This is a sore spot for me. I don't like the assumption that many men (and some women) have that I'm automatically going to be a lesser opponent than a guy my size. Sure, I have less muscle fibers in my arms...but I can throw every single pound I have behind every single hit I make, and it's not going to matter how strong I am once you're in a T-lock.

And of course, there's the training aspect. I haven't seriously fought a female since before junior high. I've fought more than my share of men, sometimes in some pretty damned desperate situations. If I'm training to prevent rape or abduction, I had best be training to fight men...and the best way for me to do that is to actually fight men.

I now teach an Okinawan Kenpo class, and I tell my students, "You don't get to choose who you fight in a dark alley." Every single student has to spar me competently before they're allowed to spar anyone else--I don't care what their views are, how big or small they are, what their previous training is, if they're "scared they're going to hurt me," or if they're scared OF me. I don't care. We train without pads, and I'm not going to turn an unknown on the class, or put someone in the ring who's not ready for it. My husband is my co-instructor, but he's not the bar they have to pass. I am.

The fifteen-year-old me would have resented the hell out of the guy in the OP's decision. Today, he wouldn't be allowed to do any groundwork in my class. If he were okay with standing up and fighting toe-to-toe (which has a LOT less physical contact) then he could spar in my class in a more limited fashion.

But even at that, it's his decision. He's willing to pay the price for it. I can even see how the sheer closeness of the contact could have felt like a violation of his religious views and I can respect that. Kudos to him for standing by his beliefs.

This just touches a sore spot for me as a female fighter.

It is his decision. But

It's also a bigger ego catastrophe when the girls win.

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come on.

There are medical reasons to consider separating teenagers by gender and possibly by sexual orientation as well. Tiny alluded to this, namely erections. Having wrestled in High School and having been a practicing Urologist, follow this line of thinking...

Teenage boys get erections with little to no physical stimulus even when they don't want one. I often heard others complain about weighing in in the nude (did they make the girl weigh in in the nude along with everyone else? Those were the rules then, but I don't know about now,) and the fear of getting an erection because of a slight breeze and therefore being labelled as gay for having had an erection.

Teenage boys, when wrestling girls have a risk of getting an erection. An erection plus significant physical activity is the prime risk for a fracture of the penis. There are significant risks to a fracture including but not limited to painful erections, angulation of the erection from scarring and impotence. The treatment is surgical and would end the season as a minimum. So it's mainly because I'd fear my son getting injured that I would have couselled him not to wrestle the girl, had it been my family. Teenage years are stressful enough. That's too big of a monkey wrench to toss in the mix.

Okay, I'm willing to wrestle a female. Just to be fair and modern.

But...wait a minute...NO! Not her! Keep her away from me. Come on, now. Monkey, please! No, no. Not the knee...not the knee...

Owwwwww

He had his reasons. He stated them politely. He accepted the consequences. Really, more people should act like this.

charlotte820 said:

No, me neither, but the thing with self-defense is that the only way to learn it is through that kind of practical application. Every self-defense workshop I can think of has co-ed demonstrations. But if everyone thought like he did, then women wouldn't have any experience fending off male attackers until a crisis was upon them. There are religious people who understand that, surely, that's the worse of two evils.

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If everyone thought like he did, women wouldn't need self-defence classes.

tiny said:

Okay. I spent a number of years in MMA. I've wrestled co-ed, I've wrestled female only. Without details, I'll say teenage boys may have... a specific reason to not want to wrestle a female. I learned this very quickly while teaching and the poor kid never looked me in the eye again.

He doesn't feel comfortable. He's allowed. I don't honestly fault him.

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I can't argue with this. As females, we completely understand this "specific reason" and yet that makes it no less embarassing for the boys.