Four American hostages slain by pirates

How should the U.S. respond to the killing of the hostages?

  • A swift, sure and punishing military response.

    Votes: 22 59.5%
  • Start negotiations with the pirates for safe passage in the future.

    Votes: 2 5.4%
  • Do nothing. It's an assumed risk by anyone who sails into that area.

    Votes: 7 18.9%
  • Other response.

    Votes: 6 16.2%

  • Total voters
    37

nighttimer

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Let's see if we can try this again without the religious whizzing matches.

NAIROBI, Kenya – Four Americans taken hostage by Somali pirates off East Africa were shot and killed by their captors Monday, the U.S. military said, marking the first time U.S. citizens have been killed in a wave of pirate attacks plaguing the Gulf of Aden and the Indian Ocean for years.

U.S. naval forces, who were trailing the Americans' captured yacht with four warships, quickly boarded the vessel after hearing the gunfire and tried to provide lifesaving care to the Americans, but they died of their wounds, the U.S. Central Command said in a statement.

Two pirates died during the confrontation and 13 were captured and detained, the U.S. Central Command said in a statement from Tampa, Fla. The remains of two other pirates who were already dead for some time were also found. The U.S. military didn't state how those two might have died.

Negotiations had been under way to try to win the release of the two couples on the pirated vessel Quest when the gunfire was heard, the U.S. military said.

The Quest was the home of Jean and Scott Adam, a couple from California who had been sailing around the world since December 2004 with a yacht full of Bibles. The two other Americans on board were Phyllis Macay and Bob Riggle, of Seattle, Washington.


Only minutes before the military said the four Americans had died, a Somali pirate told The Associated Press by phone that if the yacht was attacked, "the hostages will be the first to go."

"Some pirates have even suggested rigging the yacht with land mines and explosives so as the whole yacht explodes with the first gunshot," said the pirate, who gave his name as Abdullahi Mohamed, who claimed to be a friend of the pirates holding the four Americans.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/piracy
 

icerose

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1. No ransoms should have ever been paid from the beginning. That has greatly extended the problem IMO.

2. If possible new shipping lanes should be established to avoid this area. I realize shipping lanes are established with the currents and for good reason, but if there is any way to avoid further bloodshed by simply switching where the boats flow, I think that should be a top option. (Not a professional so my suggestion might be pointless. There might not be an alternative.)

3. We've dealt with pirates before. Granted it was over a hundred years ago, but pirates are not new. I think the international community should get together and establish rules as well as escort military ships from numerous nations and perhaps have an escort in groups through the most dangerous areas. The longer pirates are allowed to operate the more dangerous they will become. They will continue to switch tactics to keep it profitable and I don't think as an international community we can afford to tiptoe around this.
 

PinkAmy

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Yikes- I'm amazed at how many people are ready to go to start bombing--aren't we in enough wars already?
 

Kaiser-Kun

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If I were President I would declare a War on Pirates.

I'm pretty sure "pirates" aren't a nation or a cohesive group. They're worldwide criminals, present in every country, in many forms, that are already prosecuted for their crimes. It'd be just a stupid, pointless, and abusive laws-enforcer excuse, like declaring war on drugs or war on terror. Wait...
 

Cranky

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Yikes- I'm amazed at how many people are ready to go to start bombing--aren't we in enough wars already?

Who is saying anything about bombing here, let alone a nebulous "many"?

As Kaiser points out, any "war" on piracy is, by it's nature, bound to be more of a "war on drugs" sort of proposition, rather than a bombing campaign. And would require international cooperation.
 
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Tiger

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1. No ransoms should have ever been paid from the beginning. That has greatly extended the problem IMO.

2. If possible new shipping lanes should be established to avoid this area. I realize shipping lanes are established with the currents and for good reason, but if there is any way to avoid further bloodshed by simply switching where the boats flow, I think that should be a top option. (Not a professional so my suggestion might be pointless. There might not be an alternative.)

3. We've dealt with pirates before. Granted it was over a hundred years ago, but pirates are not new. I think the international community should get together and establish rules as well as escort military ships from numerous nations and perhaps have an escort in groups through the most dangerous areas. The longer pirates are allowed to operate the more dangerous they will become. They will continue to switch tactics to keep it profitable and I don't think as an international community we can afford to tiptoe around this.

Not sure about the escort idea... That's bound to cost more than whatever a given shipper would be carrying.
 

Prozyan

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Doing nothing and accepting the fact those are dangerous waters is a tempting, if not misguided idea. Pretending to ignore them is a form of appeasement, much like paying a ransom is. Unfortunately, appeasement only makes the aggressors more aggressive.

On the other hand, I'm not sure a military response is the answer either, as the US Navy isn't exactly manned or staffed for that kind of wide spread patrol operation. The military has a bad track record when engaging in police actions, which is all the would really be.

In the end, something would have to be done on the international level to accomplish anything of meaning. Too bad international undertakings of this sort usually fail to accomplish anything of meaning.
 

Kaiser-Kun

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Not sure about the escort idea... That's bound to cost more than whatever a given shipper would be carrying.

Well, ships follow pre-established routes, right? And I'm pretty sure patrol ships go over those routes, ready to speed towards an emergency.

Methinks the problem here is distance. As vast as the sea is, and with all current technology, a rescue operation could still be too late.

There's nothing that could be done about that, until teleportation becomes a reality, I'm afraid.
 

Sarpedon

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I've been saying for years: Blockade Somalia. This tragedy is only a punctuation mark to an enormous and ongoing problem that simply can't be solved by following these ridiculous, unrealistic, and antiquated rules we've saddled ourselves with.

With Iraq winding down and Afganistan landlocked, our navy is available.

To those who complain that this will hurt legitimate somali coastal traffic, I should say that if a town or city or other port can demonstrate that it has effective law enforcement and is not used by pirates, as some towns in Puntland have indeed done, they will be exempt from the blockade.
 

Noah Body

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Piracy is the new economy for a large portion of Somalia. The ransoms that have been paid have probably exceeded that failed nation's GDP by a substantial margin.

That being said, the "pirate" attacks are obviously going to continue. If the Somalis were afraid of the US Navy, they would have stuck to building sand castles on the beach after those SEALs took out several of them last year.

If legit shipping needs to transit the area, then the responsible owner is going to ensure his vessel has sufficient means to repel boarders, up to and including firearms. I know one yacht owner in Asia whose people killed three boarders in the dead of night in the South China Sea, and once the bodies were in the water, they raised the hooks and relocated. If someone is going to come aboard your vessel without permission and under force of arms, they are not going to do nice things to you.
 

tiny

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With Iraq winding down and Afganistan landlocked, our navy is available.


Our Navy is involved in both those conflicts. In fact, the Navy Corpsmen are on the ground in both Iraq and Afghanistan with the Marines. They are most certainly not merely 'available' for whatever.
 

nighttimer

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There are no good options here.

Sure, the U.S. can bomb Somalia back to the stone age. It's not as if they're that far removed from it.

The problem is the pirates don't have a fixed address. They live among the rest of the population. Any shelling from Navy ships or airstrikes will kill a lot of pirates and a lot more civilians. Anyone want to see a ton of You Tube videos of dead kids in the arms of their weeping mothers? Not me.

Send in Delta Force or Navy SEALS? Doable, but if you're ever seen Black Hawk Down that's easier said than done. The same problem as bombing the country flat exists for sending in troops or a strike force.

Negotiation is the same thing as capitulation. Besides, who is the U.S. supposed to negotiate with? There is no government in Somalia.

There is a certain amount of risk involved in going through the Gulf of Aden where the pirates prey. Shipping vessels can hire their own security or escorts though the cost of doing so will eventually be passed on to consumers. I don't care what the people on the Quest were carrying. They might have been reckless but they didn't deserve to be hijacked, terrorized and murdered.

Doing nothing will only embolden the marauders. The Somali pirates have shown no reluctance to go after any ship they can get their hands on despite being paid millions in ransom.

I have no idea how President Obama will respond. He'll probably sit down with his generals and say, "Okay, what are our options?" If he dithers too long or punts on this one, the Republicans will blast Obama for being weak, timid and ineffectual.

And they'll be right. Obama isn't the type of guy who will do something just to flex his muscles, but he knows its moments like this where that seat in the Oval Office gets a little warm.
 

Michael Wolfe

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One of the things that really makes me wonder is what impact the presence of the warship may have had in this case. The preference of the pirates is generally to keep the hostages alive so that they can collect a ransom. Perhaps the pirates believed they wouldn't be able to take the hostages back to shore.

It's hard to say at this point, but that's definitely a general concern I have with bringing in warships into this type of situation.
 

Maxx

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Send in Delta Force or Navy SEALS? Doable, but if you're ever seen Black Hawk Down that's easier said than done. The same problem as bombing the country flat exists for sending in troops or a strike force.

Clearly step one is to make at least a dozen up-beat movies where the US Navy teaches better interpersonal skills to up-and-coming pirates.
 

blacbird

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I've been saying for years: Blockade Somalia.

Probably unrealistic. Somalia has an immense coastline, and these people use small armed speedboats that can land almost anywhere. I can understand the visceral appeal of the "swift, sure military response" answer, but the "sure" part is the big problem. Sure about what? About whom? About where? This problem has no center of control, and operates out of a territory (I hesitate to call it a nation anymore) that has no center of control, and is brutally poor with very little valuable infrastructure.
 
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Vince524

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I'm not expert on what should be done, but something has to be done. Too many people are being killed. We have to stop just reacting and act. Find the strong holds and put them down. Who has authority in the region?
 

Maxx

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One of the things that really makes me wonder is what impact the presence of the warship may have had in this case. The preference of the pirates is generally to keep the hostages alive so that they can collect a ransom. Perhaps the pirates believed they wouldn't be able to take the hostages back to shore.

It's hard to say at this point, but that's definitely a general concern I have with bringing in warships into this type of situation.

It seems likely that the pirates would not have killed the hostages if a warship had not been busy negotiating with them. The pirates probably were well aware that negotiating with warships around can be a lose-lose situation.

On the other hand, naval forces have been successful at such things as capturing the mother ships that support the smaller skiffs the pirates use for finding and sneaking up on ships.
 

Michael Wolfe

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1. No ransoms should have ever been paid from the beginning. That has greatly extended the problem IMO.

I agree it's extended the problem, but I disagree that no ransoms should have been paid. In the cases where the ransoms were paid, the employers and families of the hostages really had no better option, if they wanted the hostages to be freed.

Another point I wanted to make is about the escort idea that's been brought up. Some have suggested that escorts be used for commercial ships, but what about this particular case? It was a private yacht that was being used for pleasure rather than business.

If I decide to go on a pleasure cruise around Somalia, do I get my own military escort?
 

Torrance

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Merchant vessels will need to employ security. The navy is going to be much too busy dealing with keeping the oil flowing... which also has a lot to do with what we're talking about. If the Suez Canal or the Gulf of Oman are threatened in any way, oil might have to traverse the area that is littered with these pirates. As I see it, the Blackwater guys are going to need something to do in the next few years... it might be time for them to start their "nautical" division.
 

Maxx

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. As I see it, the Blackwater guys are going to need something to do in the next few years... it might be time for them to start their "nautical" division.

Sure. What could be better than adding trigger-happy mercenaries (sailing under what flag and with what salvage rules and paid by whom?)
to a part of the ocean full of pirates and commercial ships and naval patrols?