Georgia's Bobby Franklin wants police to investigate miscarriages

Godalmighty, what has been unleashed in this country??????????????? Where do these people come from?

The worst part of this is that this bill isn't the only utterly insane thing this man has proposed.

A Georgia state lawmaker with a history of operating on the political fringe has filed a bill stripping the term "victim" from rape, stalking and domestic violence cases.

Rep. Bobby Franklin, a Republican from the Atlanta suburb of Cobb County, filed the bill in November but it only recently came to public attention.

Franklin's bill would eliminate the word "victim" from statutes dealing with stalking, rape, obscene telephone contact with a child and family violence and replace it with "accuser."

Click to expand...

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-07/...victims-word-victim-burglary-victims?_s=PM:US

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with this guy? He seems to have major issues with women. Or better yet, what is wrong with the people that vote this guy into office?

Shadow Dragon said:

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with this guy? He seems to have major issues with women. Or better yet, what is wrong with the people that vote this guy into office?

Click to expand...

A lack of young women in the constituency?

Oh, wow. Dude is all kinds of crazy.

http://www.ginandtacos.com/2011/02/03/bobby-franklin-american-hero/

^^^ The whole article. Man!

And a comment on that article:

1. Matt Says:
   February 3rd, 2011 at 11:39 am HB4 is worth checking out, as it's straight outta Idiocracy:
   http://www1.legis.ga.gov/legis/2011_12/fulltext/hb4.htm
   In short, the legislative leadership will pick 3 members from each house to "review" all the laws to see if they're "constitutional". The gotcha? NONE OF THEM CAN EVER HAVE GONE TO LAW SCHOOL. Rabid anti-intellecutalism at its finest.
   Also, a million bonus points for having the ONLY example of "civil government exceeding its mandate" be from the Old Testament; nothing like a good dose of mythology to improve the government!

Click to expand...

So I read some of the bill. *gobsmacked* Just a crazy snippet here:

(3) God has instituted four, not one, spheres of government;
(4) The first and primary sphere of government is individual self-government where everyone is to take personal responsibility for himself and his actions. The second sphere of government is family government where children are trained by their parents or guardians to be productive and responsible citizens. The third sphere of government is church government where there is a more public form of discipline for the unrepentant. The church is given the keys of the kingdom to help in the discipline of her members and to punish sins. The fourth, and least, sphere of government is the civil government which has been given the sword to punish those who infringe upon the life, liberty, or property of others;
(5) Unfortunately, over time people have looked to the civil government to right all wrongs and to even punish sins;
(6) When the proper governmental jurisdiction is perceived to not be doing its job, all too often the civil government steps in and usurps a jurisdiction not granted to it by God in order to meet that perceived need;
(7) An example of such usurpation can be found in the thirteenth chapter of the book of First Samuel. There, King Saul was all dressed up for battle against the Philistines but Samuel the prophet had not shown up to offer the required sacrifice. While waiting for Samuel, the troops grew restless and some had even begun to desert and return to their homes. Saul, perceiving the unmet need, offered the sacrifice himself, which was something that God had not authorized the civil government to do. As a result of this unauthorized, though needed, action, Saul lost his kingdom;
(8) Looking to the civil government to right a wrong in a way that God has not permitted is in reality a form of idolatry because the civil government is looked to for salvation in that particular area;
(9) Whenever the civil government assumes to itself an area that God has assigned to one of the other governmental jurisdictions, it is blasphemously asserting itself to be God;

Click to expand...

http://www1.legis.ga.gov/legis/2011_12/fulltext/hb4.htm

He ran unopposed.

Wow. He's fascinating. Let's not let him put his ideas into practice, but as a source of wtf and as voice to some of the vast voiceless batshits out there (so we can hear them and know what they're thinking,) he's invaluable.

Well, I gotta mount my favorite hobbyhorse again and point out what a sterling case this bozo makes for a severely limited government.

Franklin has a B.S. from Covenant College, which lists its mission as:

Covenant College is a Christian liberal arts college that exists to explore and express the preeminence of Jesus Christ in all things.

I'd post a link, but it seems superfluous. Anybody interested in learning more about this place can groooooooogle.

Women who suffer a miscarriage will simply avoid seeking medical care after the fact. And then those who can afford to travel out of state for needed medical care after a miscarriage will do so. Those who cannot afford it will remain silent and risk all kinds of complications.

As for me, if I lived in that state and found out I was pregnant, I would seek an out-of-state ob/gyn from the get-go so that in the event of a miscarriage that out-of-state doctor would already know me.

blacbird said:

I'd post a link, but it seems superfluous. Anybody interested in learning more about this place can groooooooogle.

Click to expand...

I never groogle on Mondays. It's too close to Sundays.

Don said:

Well, I gotta mount my favorite hobbyhorse again and point out what a sterling case this bozo makes for a severely limited government.

Click to expand...

You also gotta admit, Don, that he's pretty limited.

I am a native Georgian and I am so ashamed.

Kitty27 said:

I am a native Georgian and I am so ashamed.

Click to expand...

Same.

Don said:

Well, I gotta mount my favorite hobbyhorse again and point out what a sterling case this bozo makes for a severely limited government.

Click to expand...

With or without government, people will find a way to put an idiot in charge of their district.

blacbird said:

Godalmighty, what has been unleashed in this country??????????????? Where do these people come from?

Click to expand...

My experience is that the RABID and MILITANT anti-abortion folks believe that the entire nation stands guilty before the eyes of God for legally allowing a sanctioned form of genocide to take place within its borders. They believe they are averting hellfire and brimstone from raining down upon our nation by their faithful championing of this cause.

They further believe that if someone is in a position to do something yet fails to act, they are EXTRA guilty of said genocide. Therefore, any Christian who is in public office who doesn't act agaist abortion will be judged by God with a far more crushing measure of judgement than the average citizen.

Ultimately, they believe the law of the land is itself something to be judged by God. If our nation can maintain a body of laws which God finds acceptable then the nation as a whole is deemed acceptable -- in spite of those INDIVIDUAL citizens who defy the law such as drug dealers and human traffickers, etc. We can't help it if people break the laws of our land, we can only try to deal with those law-breakers after the fact (and pray for them and visit them in prison with our Bibles and tell them about the love of Jesus). But if the law itself is deemed to be a COLLECTIVE and CORPORATE representation of our nation before the throne of Heaven, and if the law is corrupt and grants a free license for sin (such as abortion and gay marriage), then we have COLLECTIVELY imperilled ourselves on a national level and tempted the hand of God to smite the entire nation with unspeakable grief.

THIS is why abortion and gay rights (especially gay marriage) are so inflamatory for many Christians. And folks like this lawmaker in Georgia actually believe they are averting the wholesale destruction of America by working to outlaw abortion and prevent gay marriage. That is how deeply they feel about this, and those are the stakes that they truly believe are on the table.

They want abortion outlawed and gay marriage to never be considered again. And from there onward, any young lady who gets a back-alley abortion and then survives to tell about it, they will gladly visit her in prison to share with her the love of Jesus, reassured in their hearts that we are a Godly nation with righteous laws, blessed with amber waves of grain and destined to remain the leaders of the free world.



::ETA::

Not all Christians think about it in such dire all-or-nothing terms. I won't even go so far as to say that the majority of Christians think this way -- but enough of them do. Sounds like Bobby Frank is one of them.

As for the quote that Backslashbaby included up above in Post #5, that sounds to me like something he might have written for one of his theology classes back when he was in Bible College, and that he merely copy-pasted it into the text of this bill.

Since when did religion become clinical insanity for some people?

...the dawn of time.

Damn it.

Seriously, though, this guy is peanut banana crazy.

Zoombie said:

peanut banana crazy.

Click to expand...

Can I use this?

Plot Device said:

They want abortion outlawed and gay marriage to never be considered again. And from there onward, any young lady who gets a back-alley abortion and then survives to tell about it, they will gladly visit her in prison to share with her the love of Jesus, reassured in their hearts that we are a Godly nation with righteous laws, blessed with amber waves of grain and destined to remain the leaders of the free world.

Click to expand...

I'm well aware. I grew up in this environment. My initial questions were purely rhetorical.

But this impulse differs in no respect from the one that justified the Inquisition in the Middle Ages, when they burned heretics at the stake in order to save their souls. Only a few years ago Paul Hill went smiling to his execution, completely justified for murdering an abortion clinic doctor and his driver, and convinced he had his ticket to paradise.

blacbird said:

I'm well aware. I grew up in this environment. My initial questions were purely rhetorical.

Click to expand...

Yeah but you provided me with the most perfect opportunity for me to say it.

blacbird said:

But this impulse differs in no respect from the one that justified the Inquisition in the Middle Ages, when they burned heretics at the stake in order to save their souls. Only a few years ago Paul Hill went smiling to his execution, completely justified for murdering an abortion clinic doctor and his driver, and convinced he had his ticket to paradise.

Click to expand...

This to me, invoking this sort of past history is needed to correctly draw distictions between the following groups of present-day Christians:

Mainstream Christians
Liberal Christians
Traditional Christains
Evangelical Christians
Conservative Christians
Fundamentalist Christains
Radical Fundamentalist Christains


Admittedly, all of the above have confusing overlaps and blurry lines, but it IS nonetheless a sliding scale, imperfect though it may be. The press pisses me off when they do not know even the most basic differences between even the two most extreme ends of this scale, and I frequently see the press incorrectly use many of these terms interchangeably with glaring ignorance.

In my estimation, this Bobby Frank dude falls comfortably into the bottom two categories (somewhere in Fundamenetalist and Radical Fundamentalist). Meanwhile, I self-identify as an Evangelical Christian and I will not allow anyone to lump me into the same group as the likes of him.

This is fucking disgusting.

Plot Device said:

Can I use this?

Click to expand...

I stole it from Yahtzee.

okay, let's look at this for a second, the key phrase here I think is 'proper investigating official'. That doesn't necessarily mean police, it could mean a doctor, your doctor.

While I don't necessarily agree with this proposal, I do think that we should take a deep breath and read what is really being written. There's a huge amount of sensationalism associated with this, but let's not add to the drama.

No where have I read that a mother who miscarriages will be treated a murder suspect, that conclusion appears to be one made up and exaggerated by the media and opposers. Looking at it simply, if abortion is illegal in the state and there is a high level of miscarriages, or miscarriages in strange circumstances, then the logic follows that someone will want to look at that to see if the two are related.

Now, this isn't an argument about abortion, so let's not go there. And as we don't know the full ins and outs of how the report will be made or by who or for what purpose, let's consider for a moment that when you have a miscarriage, in the UK and Ireland at least, you may be admitted to hospital for checks to make sure you haven't retained, you may need a D&C. Additionally if there are any other issues surrounding it or which may have contributed to it, such as an infection or injury, then this will be noted on your medical records.

I don't necessarily think this is a bad proposal, despite being pro choice, but I think it depends on the execution of it. It's not intended, I don't feel, to belittle women, or scare them, or make them feel guilty or accuse them of murder. In all probability, if you are unfortunate enough to suffer a misscarriage under this policy, then chances are you will never even know you were being 'investigated'



EDIT - This however

Franklin's bill would eliminate the word "victim" from statutes dealing with stalking, rape, obscene telephone contact with a child and family violence and replace it with "accuser."

Click to expand...

is crazy and makes me want to punch that guy in the face.

And just what is it that this inspection will turn up? Perhaps that the "killer" was seen at the local bar with a beer in her hand sometime in the last nine months? That she was caught sneaking a smoke outside her office one day? That she worked too many hours and didn't get the rest her baby needed? That she didn't eat the right fruits and veggies, and thereby drove her child from her womb? That she didn't pray to the right god, nor often enough?

This has all sortsa batshit crazy written all over it.

Absolutely ridiculous and more than a little frightening.

First off spontaneous miscarriage is very common - according to this article 50% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage.
http://www.emcom.ca/health/abortion.shtml
Exactly how much money does the state have to investigate a completely natural and private matter??

2ndly involving the law in a private matter not only is intrusive but assumes guilt. Many woman wonder what they did wrong, having the law investigate something that is so devastating to many women who feel guilty in the first place, is incredible.

3rdly most miscarriages don't have an easily recognizable cause especially in the early weeks. If women miscarry later in pregnancy it is most often a pregnancy that is loved, wanted and accepted and they will be the first to want to know why this happened and they will be grieving the loss. Involving the law in this makes my head want to explode.

Btw I had one pregnancy that ended in early miscarriage, as did half the women I know, my own mother included. I didn't bother to go to the doctor - I just told her the next time I saw her.

This political idiot is attempting to turn an unfortunate, but completely common act of nature, into something criminal.