The Retirement Age

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It has to be raised!!!

That's it!

Everyone needs to get on the same page here.

People are living longer.

The system can't handle it. It's undeniable math.

Sorry, you have to work a couple more years.

I, you, all of us. Except people who are like 60 now or whatever.

Pick an age that gives everyone plenty of time.

It HAS to be done.

Get some backbone, politicians. Get in a room and agree that ALL OF YOU will agree on this and that way, there is no political fallout.

Thank you.
 

Kate Thornton

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I would still be working now if I had not been suddenly (and unexpectedly) disabled in my 50s. My DH still works although we prepared for the future and are in good shape financially. (We are in our 60s)

It is good to work at a job you love. The best advice I could give a younger person would be to get an education in the field that gives you the most satisfactory work - then enjoy your life and work as long as you are able.

There is deep pleasure in working at something you love. I know a phycicist who is in his late 80s, but healthy still and working at a well known university research lab. He looks forward to his work every day. It is truly a gift.



But asking politicians to grow backbone is just not going to make it happen.
 

Magdalen

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. . . snip. . .


But asking politicians to grow backbone is just not going to make it happen.

Good points, all, Kate.

Seems like raising the ret age would best be headed off at the pass by increasing the employer/employee perception of value in things like experience, non-traditional education, loyalty and other fancy words that mean "old" now. Instead of firing the old guys, which has been happening alot lately. Maybe I should dig up some stats on employment rates for over-60, eh?

ETA:http://economics.about.com/od/helpforeconomicsstudents/f/employmentratio.htm

Also, maybe we could start tracking Employment rates instead of UNemployment rates, since the term already has a specific definition/data.
 
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shawkins

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As a certified workaholic, I'm fine with this.

However, I think it's fair to point out that your position is not supported by numbers. What economic factors make this necessary? Assuming there is in fact a shortfall in the social security budget, why is it better to make up the deficit by forcing (for instance) my Mom to work an extra two years? Wouldn't it be better for the country as a whole to make up that difference by raising the tax rates on the top two income brackets to pre-Reagan levels?

If not, why not?
 
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As a certified workaholic, I'm fine with this.

However, I think it's fair to point out that your position is not supported by numbers. What economic factors make this necessary? Assuming there is in fact a shortfall in the social security budget, why is it better to make up the deficit by forcing (for instance) my Mom to work an extra two years? Wouldn't it be better for the country as a whole to make up that difference by raising the tax rates on the top two income brackets to pre-Reagan levels?

If not, why not?

No. Why?

Read the other ten threads we have about taxes. If you disagree, that's fine. Raise taxes AND Still raise the retirement age.

NO ONE IS FORCING YOUR MOTHER, Shawkster.

I said people at a certain age don't have to worry. Is your mom 45?

If someone who is 45 and younger is going to get pissed off that the age will be raised from 65 to 68 too bad.

You have 20 years advance notice to work it out. I think that's fair enough. I'm 41. 65 or 68. Makes no difference. It's a miserable amount of mondays in my future.
 

blacbird

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It has to be raised!!!

That's it!

Everyone needs to get on the same page here.

People are living longer.

The system can't handle it

What system?

Sorry, you have to work a couple more years.

Terrific idea, Trilz. Unless you work somewhere that figures out a way to skirt age-discrimination rules and you don't get an option to work beyond age X. The major corporation I worked for did an outstanding job of jettisoning anyone who reached age 50.

Thank you. Carry on.
 

Mara

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So your solution is to keep older workers on longer so that younger workers have less opportunities for employment? I don't know if that would help anything.
 

Tom from UK

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I am in my fifties. I was a self-employed (and successful) consultant for many years - partly so that I could be at home to bring up my son. The market means that my area of consultancy doesn't really offer much of an income any more but the chances of me getting employment now are absolutely zero. Of course, I could take a McJob. But are you seriously suggesting that older people should all now stock shelves in Tesco (or Walmart) because employers don't want to take on people over 50 in proper jobs?

My wife earns well (hence my doing the child care) so we're financially fine. But for most people, living off earned income in old age will only be possible if age discrimination laws are properly enforced.
 

shadowwalker

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One way to keep people who have already worked hard for decades from having to wait (possibly too late) to retire is to get rid of SS death benefits paid to children. Spouse gets it - fine. But why do the kids? I know of one family whose income increased almost 400% after the death of the father because each one of the kids got an ungodly amount each month, right along with the widow. It wasn't meant to be a life insurance policy - it was supposed to ensure that the elderly didn't end up on the poor farm.
 

Alpha Echo

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I'm sorry. I'm not for this at all. I'm working hard. I like working hard. My husband has 20 years of hard labor and running his own business already behind him. Once we hit retirement age, so long as we can afford it, we want to stop working. We'll have earned the right to finally do what we really want to do without worrying about a day job, stressing over it, etc.
 

Cranky

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What brought this on, Thrillzy? Anything in particular? I'm curious. I'm also against raising the retirement age too much higher -- the people most impacted by such a decision would be least likely to be able to continue working in the first place. We'd shift the "burden" so to speak, from one social program to another, anyway, so I'm not sure what gains would be made, tax-wise.
 

PinkAmy

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It has to be raised!!!

That's it!

Everyone needs to get on the same page here.

People are living longer.

The system can't handle it. It's undeniable math.

Sorry, you have to work a couple more years.

I, you, all of us. Except people who are like 60 now or whatever.

Pick an age that gives everyone plenty of time.

It HAS to be done.

Get some backbone, politicians. Get in a room and agree that ALL OF YOU will agree on this and that way, there is no political fallout.

Thank you.

On some level, i agree with you. People are living longer than when the retirement age was envisioned. I agree the retirement age should be raised for most people. The issue I have with a blanket number is that people who do physical labor, like miners, have lower life expectancies and simply cannot do the physical work at a later age than pencil pushers and other white collar workers. There needs to be a way to prorate retirement age based on the type of work people do. I am quite comfortable with most people retiring at age 70, if we can also allow for miners and other similar laborers to retire at a younger age. I can already hear the white-collar workers whining about such a prospect.
 

Prozyan

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Our social security system was modeled virtually directly from Clausewitz's "social programs". The way he modeled it was to find the average age of mortality, then set the "retirement" age, where one could begin obtaining benefits, a few years above that. When this was adopted, no concession were made (or as far as I know have been made since) to rising life expectancy numbers.

Social Security in this country is the biggest Ponzi scheme ever created and it works exactly the same: ultimately unsustainable.
 

Alpha Echo

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On some level, i agree with you. People are living longer than when the retirement age was envisioned. I agree the retirement age should be raised for most people. The issue I have with a blanket number is that people who do physical labor, like miners, have lower life expectancies and simply cannot do the physical work at a later age than pencil pushers and other white collar workers. There needs to be a way to prorate retirement age based on the type of work people do. I am quite comfortable with most people retiring at age 70, if we can also allow for miners and other similar laborers to retire at a younger age. I can already hear the white-collar workers whining about such a prospect.

Good point, and that's part of what I said in my post. My husband has been doing manual labor for nearly 20 years, and though he's only almost 37, his knees are shot, and his back bothers him. His hearing will be the first thing to go, not to mention all the drywall dust and sawdust that enters his nose and eyes and ears, even with protection. And the constant being on his feet.

He's still in good shape...but he can't get on his knees much anymore. He's lucky he's in a place where he can now pay his subs to do most of the physical work for him, but there are still some days he comes home, barely able to move. He'll need to retire before me, and not just because he's 7 years older.
 

mscelina

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^^ This.

I had to quit work at 43 for the exact same reasons. That's what happens when you can't sit or stand for longer than half an hour at a time without serious medication. Granted, I still run my own businesses from home. But I think since I started work in my parents' store at the age of TEN that after FIFTY-plus years of paying taxes on my pay, I'll have deserved the right to retire when I want to.

*shrug*
 

blacbird

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Social Security in this country is the biggest Ponzi scheme ever created and it works exactly the same: ultimately unsustainable.

When Social Security was created, it was completely sustainable. And it worked.

What has made it unsustainable in its current form is the major shift in demographics and increased life expectancy that occurred after World War II. That was unanticipated, and pretty much unanticipatable. Alterations should have been made much earlier, once these trends became recognized, but nothing has been done. Now, it's far more difficult, maybe impossible, to fix.
 

MattW

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So your solution is to keep older workers on longer so that younger workers have less opportunities for employment? I don't know if that would help anything.
That's an important point, even without raising legal retirement age. People are working longer to be able to retire comfortably, and younger people have a harder time getting started or established but with higher education costs to get there. At the same time, many employers want to drop high wage earners. Even before unemployment hit 10%, there was building pressure in many areas of the job market.

Tack on the stagnation of wages and the impact of the down market on retirement investments, and it seems like everyone will be screwed in some way for at least the next 45 years.
 

veinglory

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A start would be to do away with all compulsary retirement as now enforced in some areas of employment, so that those capable and willing can continue. Anything else is just age-ism. No one os owed a job due to being old or being young. They deserve the job they can get and hold at any age.
 

PinkAmy

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A start would be to do away with all compulsary retirement as now enforced in some areas of employment, so that those capable and willing can continue. Anything else is just age-ism. No one os owed a job due to being old or being young. They deserve the job they can get and hold at any age.

Not sure I want a 90 year old pilot flying me overseas or a 90 year old doctor working on me in I go into the ER or a 90 year old bus driver sharing the road with me etc. Depends on the job, I think.
 

MattW

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When Social Security was created, it was completely sustainable. And it worked.

What has made it unsustainable in its current form is the major shift in demographics and increased life expectancy that occurred after World War II.
I would agree, but with the addendum that the misinterpretation/misrepresentation of what SS would/could do also changed the expectations of 2 or more generations on what would sustain them in retirement.

For sure, it needs fixing, and needed it long ago.
 
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What brought this on, Thrillzy?.

The news. And our deficit. And knowing that no one is doing anything. And knowing that the retirement age needs to be raised.

And the great governor of New Jersey. Christie.
 

Alpha Echo

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Not sure I want a 90 year old pilot flying me overseas or a 90 year old doctor working on me in I go into the ER or a 90 year old bus driver sharing the road with me etc. Depends on the job, I think.

Pilots as well as Air Traffic Controllers - as well as others, I'm sure - have mandatory retirement ages.

Of course, they can get a waiver for a year.
 

waylander

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Not sure I want a 90 year old pilot flying me overseas or a 90 year old doctor working on me in I go into the ER or a 90 year old bus driver sharing the road with me etc. Depends on the job, I think.

You might find a 90 y.o. doctor knows way more than a guy fresh out of med school when it comes to diagnosing what's troubling you.