Six year-old taken from school to psych ward

And people talk about "from the frying pan into the fire" like it happened at all before this. That kid will be drawing worse stuff from here on, unless they're willing to provide some real assistance. If he were my child, he'd be changing schools pronto.

I hate to tell them, but a 72 hour stay against your will hangs with you for the rest of your life. This child now has an even more difficult climb ahead.

That is just shocking. There are a lot of reasons a 6 year old child might draw something like than, and none of the ones I can think of will be made any better by removing him from a loving home and sticking him into a psych ward.

BunnyMaz said:

That is just shocking. There are a lot of reasons a 6 year old child might draw something like than, and none of the ones I can think of will be made any better by removing him from a loving home and sticking him into a psych ward.

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This, times a billion.

This makes me really afraid to send my kid to school.*

*ETA: Because I have a very physical boy whom I have no intention of sheltering and he IS going to do things like draw pictures of people being decapitated and he IS going to challenge his teachers and he IS going to get into fights because that is what children need to do to grow up.

You know what? After catching up on the current events that have made it onto this forum in the last couple of days, I'm ready for a 72 hour committal.

The whole world's gone crazy.

Wow. I understand the idea that if you have a suspicion, you have to act. But this is beyond mad. However, it wasn't just the school that was wrong here. Why did the psych ward admit the kid based on just that alone.

More dinosaur thrashing. Stay away from the dinosaurs, they'll be collapsing for the next few years, and having one land on you or those you love would be a lousy way to go.

he IS going to challenge his teachers and he IS going to get into fights because that is what children need to do to grow up

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YES. THIS.

I worry more about the children that are coddled and comforted away from any of this, because one day they are going to be adults and the world will expect them to man up and deal. Kids needs to be able to blow off steam, to fight and challenge and question authority and to draw and write to express themselves, even if that means drawing violence when you feel angry.

I never understood this whole thing of there being issues when children draw scenes of violence. It is as though we expect them never to have anything other than pure, innocent and happy thoughts in their heads. Like they aren't really supposed to be human at all.

Don said:

More dinosaur thrashing. Stay away from the dinosaurs, they'll be collapsing for the next few years, and having one land on you or those you love would be a lousy way to go.

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??????????????

Dude, I know I'm not the brightest bulb out there, but what in the name of Barney the dino (Pardon my french) are you talking about??????

Vince524 said:

??????????????

Dude, I know I'm not the brightest bulb out there, but what in the name of Barney the dino (Pardon my french) are you talking about??????

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Massive authoritarian institutions are trying to protect their authority in the only way they know how; by becoming even more authoritarian, which to the average person is starting to look a lot like insanity. It's happening in the middle east, in Europe, in the US, both federal and state. The education system isn't immune. It seems like nearly every thread lately is the result of someone in authority beating their chest and declaring their authority to push their subjects around. It wouldn't take long to look through the last few pages of thread titles and make a laundry list.

The free flow of information is the modern equivalent of the dinosaur-killer asteroid. Most people just don't realize it's hit yet.

Don said:

Massive authoritarian instititions are trying to protect their authority in the only way they know how; by becoming even more authoritarian, which to the average person is starting to look a lot like insanity. It's happening in the middle east, in Europe, in the US, both federal and state. The education system isn't immune. It seems like nearly every thread lately is the result of someone in authority beating their chest and declaring their authority to push their subjects around. It wouldn't take long to look through the last few pages of thread titles and make a laundry list.

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Well, why didn't you just say so!!!!

I think this, at least on the schools part wasn't as much sabre rattling as much as it was overreaction, but I could be wrong.

Sounds like a terrifying mess for the parents and the child. I sure hope he gets good follow-up.

On Monday, her 6-year-old son Jack was committed to a psychiatric ward against her wishes after he drew a violent drawing at school and wrote that he wanted to die.

"They said they were concerned about a picture he drew. I said he plays video games and it's a picture from a video game."

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I also hope there's good reason why a 6-year-old who's already been placed under the care of a therapist--and whose father has gone off to war--is playing violent video games.

If he were under the care of a therapist for prior suicidality or suicide attempts, this would make a lot more sense. Hopefully we'll never know, though, because that's his business, and if the professionals involved are indeed professionals, that wouldn't be disclosed anyway. I wish his name hadn't been released in the mass media, actually, as it can only make it harder for him in the future.

Vince524 said:

Well, why didn't you just say so!!!!

I think this, at least on the schools part wasn't as much sabre rattling as much as it was overreaction, but I could be wrong.

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In an age of zero tolerance, which is safer, overreaction that strictly follows the rules or reasoned compromise that might mean bending them, and requires an independent judgement rather than following orders?

Here are some books to read, because they're all predictive.

Brave New World--Huxley
1984--Orwell
The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire--Gibbons

Don said:

In an age of zero tolerance, which is safer, overreaction that strictly follows the rules or reasoned compromise that might mean bending them, and requires an independent judgement rather than following orders?

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Both.

with zero tolorance common sense flies out the window.

Without it, it never seems to get in the room.

With zero tolorance, you hear horror stories where bad things happen because those in charge keep yelling about the gotta follow the rules.

When you leave it up to individual judgement, you get people who don't care and just .

You hear horror stories both ways.
There is no perfect solution, is there?

Plot Device raises her portable tape recorder into the air, preses the "Playback" button and turns the volume up for everyone to hear the same brief 6-word message she has played a hundred times here in the past: "I am a former school teacher..........." Plot Device turns off tape recorder.


In my Junior year at college (the year 1994 if anyone cares to know how long ago), one of my professors went to a weekend workshop conference for school teachers that concentrated on the legalities of being a school teacher. She read aloud to us from one of the workbooks she was given in one of lecture-workshops she attended there. The workbook was full of annecdotes about different teachers and principals having to deal with very difficult and troublesomes scenarios from various students, and some of the compelling legal minefields that needed to be navigated with each scenario.

One of those annecdotes was a scenario about a 6-year-old girl who showed up at school on a Monday morning with signs of having been physically and/or sexually abused. The scenario goes on to explain that the concerned teacher took the little girl to the nurse, they gently questioned the little girl about her weekend, then they determied that the child was describing actual sexual acts. And so they next took her to the local hospital to have a physician perform a gynocological exam on her to determine if she had indeed been sexually assaulted. The exam indicated that the child had had sex in the past 48 hours with evidence of tearing and brusing and semen. And that's when the sherrif got called in.

So the workbook asked, "What happens next?"

My classmates and I assumed that the parents would be arrested. Or else SOMEONE in the child's household (a brother, a visiting uncle, a next door neighbor, etc) would be arrested.

But the correct asnwer was that the school was now facing a mutli-milion dollar lawsuit from the parents because they performed medical procedures upon their child (a gynocological exam) without their knowledge or permission. Oh, and the proncipal got fired.



Now, after having explained all of that, this situation in the OP floors me beyond words.



.

You know, I love the smell of righteous outrage as much as anyone but I would bet cash money that there is much more to this story than we are hearing,that this mom has already hired an attorney, and that her media statements have been coached.

And I can hear the outrage when, in ten years or so, a similar young man who wasn't evaluated and never got any help walks into his school and opens fire on his classmates. When people are interviewed, more than one says, "He used to draw such horrible pictures and say he wanted to die! There's always been something just 'wrong' with that boy... why didn't anyone DO anything about it?"

The tragedy here is the media, the release of private information and parents who don't do their jobs.

It was what we call a 'suicide watch' stay at the psych ward. I know quite a few folks who have had them (teenage years, mostly). I'm actually glad that they do it for younger kids, too, but someone should be on hand to help the parent see that it might be helpful. The kid didn't have to be traumatized by it.

Granted, the actual therapy there is rarely very helpful, at least around here. Still, it keeps you safe and secure in a place for a couple of days to begin sorting things out.

I would be afraid that a parent might not take suicidal talk seriously enough. The therapy given may not be top-notch, but it beats what a lot of parents would do, or what a lot of adults seek for themselves (nothing, drugs, etc).

It's freaky any time the state can force anything like this, but I think the mom did a disservice to her kid freaking out about it in front of him

eta: I didn't mean to make it sound like it's just about teenage angst, although that kind of depression is important, too. I know two bipolar folks who have had these as adults, and one friend with HIV&cancer who had a particularly down night who got a stay. Makes sense, I think. I wish they had better docs for them, is all.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/topics?topic=Los+Angeles+Unified+School+District

Los Angeles Unified School District Superintendent Ramon Cortines released a statement, saying in part, "When any student indicates a desire to take his or her own life, the LAUSD is required to follow strict protocols to ensure the safety of the student ... The safety of LAUSD students is paramount. We did the right thing here."

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Zero tolerance policies in action, folks. This little dipshit believes that he "did the right thing" by abducting a child and telling his mother that he has this power. School officials have, in the last few years, decided that they're above constitutional rights. I hope this bastard goes to prison for a very long time.

When I was about six or seven I was extremely bullied and said to my Mum that I wanted to die once. The next day at school she asked me to point out the kids who had been bullying me and she marched right up to them waving a finger in their faces and shouted at them to leave me alone. LOL. If she did that today, she'll probably get in a heck of alot of trouble, but back then all she did was scare the crap out of them and make me think she was cool. The reason I said what I did was because I was miserable and depressed. But I got over it. I wasn't going to kill myself. I doubt I would've known how at that age. I said it for attention. This kid probably feels the same way. He said it because he felt sad, missed his dad, whatever. Putting him in a psych ward is over kill. The school should've called his parents and asked for them to take him home or come in for chat.

It sounds outrageous right now, but...

A first-grade teacher is with her children about six hours a day, every weekday. She is in the perfect position to see the full range of the child's behaviors and moods. In many cases, she spends more waking hours with these kids than any other adult in their life. Day in, day out, month after month. This isn't the case of some stranger seeing a disturbing drawing and the words "I want to die" and freaking out. This is someone closely involved with the child, who sees their other behaviors, who actually works on and with their behavior daily, and who is a mandatory reporter.

If a kid who is otherwise happy-go-lucky did this, the teacher may well have asked about it, heard "Oh, it's from a game" and let it go. If a kid who is seriously stressed and upset because they have a parent in a war zone does it, especially if that kid has been showing other warning behaviors, it can mean something else, entirely.

Teachers don't act on their own. The admin has to approve of what they're doing, especially with something like this. I'm absolutely certain that this child wasn't the first at his school to draw something disturbing...there was something else here that caused the teacher to go to the admin, and the admin to say yes, this is definitely something we should report. Then those that got the call found it compelling enough to come out right away, rather than set up a time later, and after talking to the kid, to actually commit him.

The mother's reaction shows, to me, that she was taking the "It's no big deal! He's 6!" attitude...which is okay in many situations, but not when a group of professionals who do nothing but deal with 6 year-olds all day say, "Hey, your son's not acting like a normal 6-year-old, and we're scared that he's suicidally depressed." The article said he'd gone to therapy "in the past." Why was he not still in therapy, if he was still having serious problems? And the mom was at the school when the psych team said that yes, this child did need to be committed. She was there because she was called in by the school. I wonder how many times she's been called in to the school before about her son's problems, and how she reacts. There may be good reason why the school said, "It's not in your hands now."

What would have happened if this kid got his mother's gun and shot himself...then it came out that he'd let his teacher know he wanted to die? What if it came out that he had showed a whole range of behaviors indicating stress and/or depression (which, considering the references to past therapy, are almost definitely in play?)

I'm sure the school would be found to blame. Why am I sure? Look at the ADULT who shot Rep. Giffords. His college booted him out and refused him re-entry until he got a psych eval...and we all heard over and over how they should have done more.

I'm glad he school took proactive steps to insure the safety of the child. As a child psychologist, I saw many more parents who denied their child's need for treatment and minimized the seriousness of their child's issues. One mother of an 8-year-old who tried to kill herself laying on a busy street didn't understand why her kid needed to be hospitalized. Parents are not always best equipped to differentiate between normal childhood behavior and pathological behavior ranging from depression to psychosis.
We don't know the school's history with the parent or the child and what, if any, other symptoms the child showed. I side with the school on this one.