Stupid question about apostrophe use

frisco · Feb 9, 2011

I want to show possession of an object, but I'm not sure how to use the apostraphy.

Would it be

Mr. Smith's office
Mr. Smiths' office
Mr. Smiths office

Yeah, dumb question but I always make mistakes when I write this.

monkey see monkey do · Feb 9, 2011

Mr. Smith's office

CaroGirl · Feb 9, 2011

frisco said:
I want to show possession of an object, but I'm not sure how to use the apostraphy.

Would it be

Mr. Smith's office
Mr. Smiths' office
Mr. Smiths office

Yeah, dumb question but I always make mistakes when I write this.

Apostrophe.

And the monkey is right. It's "Mr. Smith's office."

Libbie · Feb 9, 2011

If the person's last name is Smiths, with the S at the end, it would be Mr. Smiths's office. If the person's last name is Smith, it would be Mr. Smith's office.

Here's all you need to know about apostrophe use:

1) You ALWAYS use an apostrophe to show a possessive (who owns something). It is never correct to leave off an apostrophe in a possessive, with the single exception of the word "its," as in "the dog wagged its tail."

2) You NEVER use an apostrophe to show a plural (when a noun refers to more than one.) It is always "there are lots of girls at the school," NEVER "there are lots of girl's at the school."

3) It is always correct to use an apostrophe to indicate a contraction (the merging of two words into one). "There's" is the contraction for "there is." "What's" is the contraction for "what is." "It's" is the contraction for "it is."

That's it! That's all you need to know about apostrophes. They're pretty simple to master.

Stijn Hommes · Feb 9, 2011

By the way, that's not a stupid question. If you hadn't asked you'd still be guessing. Now someone gave you the rules in a nice clear format. I sent you some rep points for that, Libbie. The only stupid question is one you don't ask. I know it sounds cliche, but it's true.

Chase · Feb 9, 2011

Bravo, Libbie.

Libbie said:
If the person's last name is Smiths, with the S at the end, it would be Mr. Smiths's office. If the person's last name is Smith, it would be Mr. Smith's office.

Here's all you need to know about apostrophe use:

1) You ALWAYS use an apostrophe to show a possessive (who owns something). It is never correct to leave off an apostrophe in a possessive, with the single exception of the word "its," as in "the dog wagged its tail."

Also the other possessive pronouns, including hers, ours, yours, theirs, his. Yeah, "hi's" will really make a writer look less-than-knowledgeable.

2) You NEVER use an apostrophe to show a plural (when a noun refers to more than one.) It is always "there are lots of girls at the school," NEVER "there are lots of girl's at the school."

3) It is always correct to use an apostrophe to indicate a contraction (the merging of two words into one). "There's" is the contraction for "there is." "What's" is the contraction for "what is." "It's" is the contraction for "it is."

Yep. Worse to my old eyes is: I lived through the 60's. Instead of indicating where 19 is missing by the proper apostrophe, many writers misplace it to confuse the plural.

That's it! That's all you need to know about apostrophes. They're pretty simple to master.

LynnKHollander · Feb 9, 2011

Libbie said:
If the person's last name is Smiths, with the S at the end, it would be Mr. Smiths's office. If the person's last name is Smith, it would be Mr. Smith's office.

Here's all you need to know about apostrophe use:

1) You ALWAYS use an apostrophe to show a possessive (who owns something). It is never correct to leave off an apostrophe in a possessive, with the single exception of the word "its," as in "the dog wagged its tail."

2) You NEVER use an apostrophe to show a plural (when a noun refers to more than one.) It is always "there are lots of girls at the school," NEVER "there are lots of girl's at the school."

3) It is always correct to use an apostrophe to indicate a contraction (the merging of two words into one). "There's" is the contraction for "there is." "What's" is the contraction for "what is." "It's" is the contraction for "it is."

That's it! That's all you need to know about apostrophes. They're pretty simple to master.

~~his. Also, hers and theirs.

acaciaawai · Feb 9, 2011

Libbie said:
If the person's last name is Smiths, with the S at the end, it would be Mr. Smiths's office. If the person's last name is Smith, it would be Mr. Smith's office.

Here's all you need to know about apostrophe use:

1) You ALWAYS use an apostrophe to show a possessive (who owns something). It is never correct to leave off an apostrophe in a possessive, with the single exception of the word "its," as in "the dog wagged its tail."

2) You NEVER use an apostrophe to show a plural (when a noun refers to more than one.) It is always "there are lots of girls at the school," NEVER "there are lots of girl's at the school."

3) It is always correct to use an apostrophe to indicate a contraction (the merging of two words into one). "There's" is the contraction for "there is." "What's" is the contraction for "what is." "It's" is the contraction for "it is."

That's it! That's all you need to know about apostrophes. They're pretty simple to master.

I'm going to paste this to my "things I always do wrong file" It was sooo helpful.

acaciaawai · Feb 9, 2011

When is it Smiths'

Chase · Feb 9, 2011

acaciaawai said:
When is it Smiths'

When two or more people named Smith own something:

The Smiths' new truck is a Ford.

And the ever-popular Jones crew:

The Joneses' cat is a Siamese.

OneWriter · Feb 10, 2011

Chase said:
When two or more people named Smith own something:

The Smiths' new truck is a Ford.

And the ever-popular Jones crew:

The Joneses' cat is a Siamese.

Chase, now I'm curious: why is Joneses' but Smiths' (as opposed to Smithses')? Is it the silent "e" in Jones that makes the difference?

Maryn · Feb 10, 2011

The family on Holbrook road is the Smiths. The couple on Arlington Drive is the Smiths, parents of the husband whose family lives on Holbrook.

Both the Smiths [not the Smithses, IMO] bought new trucks. The Smiths' new trucks are Fords. Oh, wait, they're sharing one truck because they're all related? The Smiths' new truck is a Ford.

Maryn, who won't be sharing a vehicle with her parents, thanks

LaceWing · Feb 10, 2011

One Smith, two Smiths, the Smiths' truck.

One Jones, two Joneses, the Joneses' truck.

LynnKHollander · Feb 10, 2011

OneWriter said:
Chase, now I'm curious: why is Joneses' but Smiths' (as opposed to Smithses')? Is it the silent "e" in Jones that makes the difference?

Because, while the plural of Smith is Smiths, the plural of Jones is Joneses: two Joneses; also, two Jameses or two Charleses.

Plurals ending in S take an apostrophe after the S as the possessive: Joneses' cat ~~belongs to two or more people named Jones. The girls' cat ~~belongs to two or more girls. If the girls are both named Smith, it is, in fact, the Smiths' cat.

OneWriter · Feb 10, 2011

Okay, I get that. My question is: suppose you have a Mr. Smiths, with a final "s". When I refer to Mr. and Mrs. Smiths, do I say the Smithses or do I say the Smiths?

Chase · Feb 10, 2011

OneWriter said:
Okay, I get that. My question is: suppose you have a Mr. Smiths, with a final "s". When I refer to Mr. and Mrs. Smiths, do I say the Smithses or do I say the Smiths?

If the family name is Smiths, then you do make the regular plural by adding "es." Collectively, they are the Smithses (who most likely are trying to keep up with the Joneses). Co-ownership may be shown thus:

Mr. Smiths bought a Cadillac. The Smithses can now ride in style, if only the Smithses' new car had wheels.

mtrenteseau · Feb 10, 2011

Let's not forget plural words that don't end in "s."

The children's shoes were scattered around the room.

blacbird · Feb 10, 2011

OneWriter said:
Chase, now I'm curious: why is Joneses' but Smiths' (as opposed to Smithses')? Is it the silent "e" in Jones that makes the difference?

Because Jones is a single name, and Smith is a single name. To pluralize a name that ends in -s, practice is to add -es. You don't need to do that with Smith.

Fallen · Feb 10, 2011

acaciaawai said:
When is it Smiths'

*grumbles*

The rule always to use an 's to show singular possesion, even with nouns that in end an 's' (Jesus, Smiths etc) is debatable, and I get nervous when people set it in stone and say 'don't' ever use it that way because...'.

Take a look at: 'Pass me the coat belonging to Mr Smiths'.

Most wouldn't say 'Pass me Mr Smiths's coat.', they'd opt for the 'Pass me Mr Smiths' coat.'

They sound only one 's', not two.

But -- a similar proper noun ending in an 's' sound, would be different:

'pass me Mr Sanchez's coat'

You naturally sound both the 'z (s sound in SanchEZ), and the possessive 's' that comes after it -- you'd need to add the extra 's in this case.

Some people will be guided by what looks grammatically correct, some will be guided by how language is spoken. I think writing narrative and dialogue best uses both: ear and sight.

Duncan J Macdonald · Feb 10, 2011

Fallen said:
*grumbles*

The rule always to use an 's to show singular possesion, even with nouns that in end an 's' (Jesus, Smiths etc) is debatable, and I get nervous when people set it in stone and say 'don't' ever use it that way because...'.

And gladly will I debate it. I follow the U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual, 30th Edition, 2008, which says (in part):

USGPO Style Manual said:
Apostrophes and possessives
8.3. The possessive case of a singular or plural noun not ending in s is
formed by adding an apostrophe and s. The possessive case of a singular
or plural noun ending in s or with an s sound is formed by adding an apostrophe only. Some irregular plurals require both an apostrophe and an s.

The manual goes on for an additional 16 paragraphs giving examples for different uses.

I find the Manual invaluable because 1) It is comprehensive, and 2) I'm required to use it in my day-to-day work.

Fallen · Feb 11, 2011

Duncan J Macdonald said:
And gladly will I debate it. I follow the U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual, 30th Edition, 2008,

It's caused many bloody nose this one

. I don't know about you, but it amazes me how many different style/usage guides branch in different ways over this:

http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki...nouns_ending_with_an_.22s.22_or_.22z.22_sound

This covers some, but the Concise Oxford Companion sums it up:

There is widespread inconsistency and uncertainty in the use of the apostrophe when a singular noun already ends in -s. Traditional usage adds the apostrophe s if it is pronounced: the boss's explanation. With names of classical origin, a second s is not usually added, especially when the end sound of a word is /z/ rather than /s/: Xerxes' battle, Socrates' pupils. In speaking, a further syllable is less likely with such names as Xerxes', where the last syllable already has two sibilant sounds, but might or might not be pronounced with Socrates'. With non-classical names ending in -s, again spoken and written forms may or may not have the same number of syllables. With short names, an extra syllable is generally pronounced, although the possessive can be written either way: Mr Harris's job, Mr Harris's job; Keats' poetry, Keats's poetry. The extra syllable for Jesus is optional in both writing and speech: in Jesus' name, in Jesus's name. The possessive plural of a singular name ending in -s (Jones) may be written either 's or s': the Jones's house, the Jones' house. The tendency seems to be towards simplification and omitting the apostrophe: a century ago, Chambers English Dictionary was Chambers's English Dictionary.

TOM McARTHUR. "APOSTROPHE." Concise Oxford Companion to the English Language. 1998. Encyclopedia.com. 11 Feb. 2011 <http://www.encyclopedia.com>.

Stupid question about apostrophe use

frisco

practical experience, FTW

monkey see monkey do

Recklessly Pessimistic

CaroGirl

Living the dream

Libbie

Worst song played on ugliest guitar

Stijn Hommes

Know what you write...

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

LynnKHollander

This space intentionally left blank

acaciaawai

acaciaawai

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

OneWriter

Ubi dubium ibi libertas

Maryn

At Sea

LaceWing

LynnKHollander

This space intentionally left blank

OneWriter

Ubi dubium ibi libertas

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

mtrenteseau

Mild-mannered accountant by day...

blacbird

Fallen

Stood at the coalface

Duncan J Macdonald

Plotting! Not Plodding!

Fallen

Stood at the coalface