strict definition of "between"

tko · Feb 3, 2011

I'm going through reviews from a beta reader. I've got a person sitting at one side of a round table, another person sitting across from the 1st (180 degrees), with my character described as "sitting between" the 1st two (at 90 degrees from each.)

My reviewer thought that this was wrong, because technically sitting between them (at a round table) would mean my character is sitting ON the table. Funny.

I think this is being a little picky, I'm using "between" in a very general sense, while the reviewing is using a more geometrical definition (middle of two points.)

Am I wrong, and if so, what would be an alternate description?

thanks

maestrowork · Feb 3, 2011

If more than two people, the correct term is "among."

But if you're talking about two people, then you can say, "he sat between the first two people."

In your case, since it's around table, it's understood that you mean around the circumference of the table, not a straight like. The reviewer is nitpicking by saying "it must mean he's ON the table if he's between them."

ResearchGuy · Feb 3, 2011

tko said:
. . . Am I wrong, and if so, what would be an alternate description?

thanks

Nah, you are fine.

It might be expressed something like, "Bob sat to Tom's left and Mabel to his right, facing Bob, at the round conference table." But I don't see that as an improvement.

--Ken

Maryn · Feb 3, 2011

Does the reader need to know where each person is seated? That's the important question.

Maryn, recommending twixt because it makes her laugh

FennelGiraffe · Feb 3, 2011

If you really need to go into as much detail as you did here about the shape of the table and the precise position of each person, I'd suggest finding a more accurate way to say it. But if it's a quick mention in one sentence, don't worry about it.

blacbird · Feb 4, 2011

If you're a Brit, you could use "betwixt".

PeterL · Feb 4, 2011

You're fine the reader doesn't understand. You might rephrase it, if you want to please the reader.

Jamesaritchie · Feb 4, 2011

Well, the problem is that if you have three people sitting at a round table, each of them would be sitting "between" the other two, so it's a meaningless way to say it. Your reviewer makes a very good point.

boron · Feb 4, 2011

I believe "between" can be used only when someone appears in the line between two persons in the way where either he is affected by a process happening between the other two, or he affects the process between the two.

Deleted member 42 · Feb 4, 2011

Once again, the dictionary is your friend.

American Heritage Dictionary Usage Note said:
According to a widely repeated but unjustified tradition, "between is used for two, and among for more than two." It is true that between is the only choice when exactly two entities are specified: the choice between (not among) good and evil, the rivalry between (not among) Great Britain and France. When more than two entities are involved, however, or when the number of entities is unspecified, the choice of one or the other word depends on the intended sense. Between is used when the entities are considered as distinct individuals; among, when they are considered as a mass or collectivity. Thus in the sentence The bomb landed between the houses, the houses are seen as points that define the boundaries of the area of impact (so that we presume that none of the individual houses was hit). In The bomb landed among the houses, the area of impact is considered to be the general location of the houses, taken together (in which case it is left open whether any houses were hit). By the same token, we may speak of a series of wars between the Greek cities, which suggests that each city was an independent participant in the hostilities, or of a series of wars among the Greek cities, which allows for the possibility that the participants were shifting alliances of cities. For this reason, among is used to indicate inclusion in a group: She is among the best of our young sculptors. There is a spy among you. Use between when the entities are seen as determining the limits or endpoints of a range: They searched the area between the river, the farmhouse, and the woods. The truck driver had obviously been drinking between stops.

Kenn · Feb 4, 2011

I think you probably mean at 45 degrees from each. I would use between when your person was closer to each of the other two than they were to one other.

PeterL · Feb 4, 2011

It's also a matter of frame of reference. In a row between means with one on either side. in a circle it also means with one on either side, but the line is curved.

Jamesaritchie · Feb 4, 2011

Medievalist said:
Once again, the dictionary is your friend.

Not that dictionary. I pretty much agree with what it says, or what I think it says, but that's the most unintelligible passage I've read in years. American Heritage needs to hire a writer.

Deleted member 42 · Feb 4, 2011

Jamesaritchie said:
Not that dictionary. I pretty much agree with what it says, or what I think it says, but that's the most unintelligible passage I've read in years. American Heritage needs to hire a writer.

Tell you what James--Why don't you present your credentials and apply to be a member of the Usage Panel?

VTwriter · Feb 4, 2011

Tom and Dick sat on opposite sides of Harry.

Sarah Madara · Feb 4, 2011

Your reviewer is probably nitpicking, but it's hard to say without reading the passage.

You can say it differently but

For example:
Jane sat at the round table, her back to the door. To her right was Max; to her left, Ashley.

They occupied three of the four chairs at the small round table. Jane sat across from the empty seat, with Max and Ashley on either side.

Max and Ashley were already seated directly across from each other, leaving Jane no choice but to sit between them. (Okay that uses between but you get that it's a half-circle at least.)

The question is, does it matter enough to bother?

strict definition of "between"

tko

just thanks fore everything

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

ResearchGuy

Resident Curmudgeon

Maryn

Baaa!

FennelGiraffe

It's green they say

blacbird

PeterL

Jamesaritchie

boron

Health writer

Deleted member 42

Kenn

New kid, be gentle!

PeterL

Jamesaritchie

Deleted member 42

VTwriter

Hair today, gone tomorrow

Sarah Madara

Freeway stomper extraordinaire