"Off the Reservation" current trendy derogatory term

HistorySleuth · Jan 5, 2011

If this is in the wrong place, mods please move.

I've noticed over the last couple of years seeming intelligent people using the term "off the reservation." I hear it a lot by news reporters, and even writers here.

Now maybe I'm sensitive to it because I have several NA friends who live on reservations, and get inside scoop on a lot of how they feel about the phrase, living conditions, etc..

Have you ever stopped to think what that sounds like? What if I said:

"I don't know Bob, I think he's gone too far off the plantation on that one."

OR

"I can't believe she did that. Seems a bit outside the concentration camp to me."

Can you imagine the backlash if someone said that on cable TV news?

All three cases you are talking about people who were forcefully put somewhere they didn't want to be. As if it's a bad thing to want to leave.

When someone uses the term "off the reservation" it implies they did something out of control, or not within bounds of where we expect them to be with their decision. It's just a modern way of saying, "I think he's acting like a wild Indian," which is equally derogatory.

Cyia · Jan 5, 2011

Apparently, it's only offensive if it's done by Mark Twain.

Williebee · Jan 5, 2011

Been going on a lot longer than the last couple years, but yeah.

For me, "off the reservation" is up there with "drank the koolaid".

HistorySleuth · Jan 5, 2011

I don't mean it as being the word police, that we should edit the classics if that's what you mean, Cyia. I expect to see words like that in the time frame it was written it was no big deal. I see a lot of things reading old newspapers. It just surprises me when the phrase is used today in general conversation.

I guess my real point is, would someone be offended if we all started saying "off the plantation." I bet there would be quite the media slam. I find it interesting how some offensive things are OK, and others are not. I guess it depends who its directed at. I think the three examples target specific ethnic groups.

Another good example Williebee, when you think about what it really means.

Cyia · Jan 5, 2011

I knew what you meant. What I mean is that TPTB pick and choose what is and isn't offensive with little to know sense to their reasoning.

It should be obvious that one is as bad as the other, but somehow it doesn't register that way with certain phrases.

HistorySleuth · Jan 5, 2011

Exactly. I just don't get that at all.

SPMiller · Jan 5, 2011

Never heard this one before, but I don't like it.

Zoombie · Jan 5, 2011

I too have never heard about it, actually. But yeah, not only does it sound kinda offensive, but it's also downright confusing to me.

HistorySleuth · Jan 5, 2011

I admit, I just read it twice in the same thread on a post here at AW and I guess it put me over the edge. They're both good people too. I think really, people are getting used to using it and just haven't given it a thought as to what it really implies.

Cyia · Jan 5, 2011

Zoombie said:
I too have never heard about it, actually. But yeah, not only does it sound kinda offensive, but it's also downright confusing to me.

It's a holdover from the days when Native Americans were forcibly kept (as in at gun point by the army) on the Res. When a person went off the reservation, it meant they were out of military control and a threat to society that needed to be stopped. It gets used in the same context as "loose cannon" except that a loose cannon on a ship is actually likely to do damage.

Vespertilion · Jan 5, 2011

I'm familiar with it from spy/military novels and movies (when an agent goes rogue or their brainwashing goes haywire), but haven't heard it spoken in casual conversation before.

singsebastian · Jan 5, 2011

There are better ways to say that someone is crazy.

"He's just gone off the deep end," - "She's off her rocker," -

I think this is more about which wording is better.

I know I shant use this. It does sound rather harsh and utterly uninteligent.

Vespertilion · Jan 5, 2011

As an illustration of my ability to make my own sense, before it clicked (or maybe someone explained it, I was still a kid) that's not where the phrase came from, I thought "Off the Reservation" meant this kind:

ETA: Crap, let me go find a smaller pic. Sorry.

ETAA: Can't find a smaller one, so here's a military reservation sign in someone's flickr stream.

Williebee · Jan 5, 2011

Off the reservation didn't necessarily mean crazy. It also was a synonym for going "rogue", or not keeping with a plan.

wiktionary

Xelebes · Jan 5, 2011

"Drank the Kool-aid" does not mean crazy to me, but rather misled in a superlative sense.

Williebee · Jan 5, 2011

Sometimes it is "misled", sometimes it is "willingly went down that path".

Gale Haut · Jan 5, 2011

Yeah, "drank the koolaid" is like making a bad decision when there are big neon warning signs pointing at the punch bowl. All signs point to NO.

I've never thought about "off the reservation" being derogatory. I heard it often growing up and I'm glad you brought it up here. I don't like it either.

LOG · Jan 5, 2011

I have never heard this phrase used in a real conversation... *shrug*

backslashbaby · Jan 6, 2011

I've heard it on the news a lot, and I did notice that it's a cruel thing to say. I also hate 'drink the Kool-aid'.

Another, imho, is 'beyond the pale'. I think I would have preferred the folks who lived beyond the pale, thankyouverymuch.

Huh, 2 out of 3 above nearly cover my complete ethnicity too

Gretad08 · Jan 6, 2011

I'm wearing my stupid hat today. Someone please explain the problem with 'drink the kool-aid'. I get off the reservation, but can't for the life of me find the offense in the former.

Gale Haut · Jan 6, 2011

Because almost a thousand people had to die for that punchline to make any sense.

ETA: "Punchline" was not an intentional pun, fyi.

backslashbaby · Jan 6, 2011

Yep, Jonestown. I didn't hear the term until much more recently, or didn't notice it as much before. Was it Rush Limbaugh who made it popular again? So many kids died. Ugh.

not_HarryS · Jan 6, 2011

Gale Haut said:
Because almost a thousand people had to die for that punchline to make any sense.

ETA: "Punchline" was not an intentional pun, fyi.

Yeah, but they willingly submitted themselves to death. I think the phrase is appropriate for someone who blindly jumps on a ridiculous bandwagon.

In fact, I don't find it any more offensive than I find 9/11 offensive. It's sad more than anything else.

Cyia · Jan 6, 2011

not_HarryS said:
Yeah, but they willingly submitted themselves to death. I think the phrase is appropriate for someone who blindly jumps on a ridiculous bandwagon.

"Willing's" a bit strong considering it was drink the kool aid or take a bullet to the brain once the real poison was involved. However, up to that point, it was a willing thing - a test of loyalty for people who probably, on some level knew better, but didn't know how to get out.

In that case, the phrase is unpleasant, but it's meant to be. Go through the PA threads and see how many times it's referenced, but in context of a group dynamic that's eerily cult-like. If you're talking about a cultish clique, then it's a valid comment.

kikazaru · Jan 6, 2011

backslashbaby said:
Another, imho, is 'beyond the pale'. I think I would have preferred the folks who lived beyond the pale, thankyouverymuch.

I think many people just don't think about the origins of the word before they use them, while "off the reservation" is clearly offensive, other words especially if they are in common usage are just not given any scrutiny. I used to use the word "gypped" and I was appalled to find out it was a slur against Gypsies. It simply didn't occur to me.

As for "beyond the pale" I had to look that one up, to find out that it's origins are 14th century. A pale is a stake and a series of them were used to separate and fence off part of Ireland which was under English rule, from the part which was not. To travel beyond the pale for the English, meant leaving civilization behind.
http://www.word-detective.com/back-q.html#pale

So thanks to you Backslashbaby, I found a great new site - and learned something - thanks!

"Off the Reservation" current trendy derogatory term

Researching History's Mysteries

Rewriting My Destiny

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.

Researching History's Mysteries

Rewriting My Destiny

Researching History's Mysteries

Prodigiously Hanged

Dragon of the Multiverse

Researching History's Mysteries

Rewriting My Destiny

Flying blind on a rocket cycle.

New kid, be gentle!

Flying blind on a rocket cycle.

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.

Delerium ex Ennui

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.

waxing digital artistic

Lagrangian

~~~~*~~~~

waxing digital artistic

~~~~*~~~~

Peen Copter Aficionado

Rewriting My Destiny

Benefactor Member

*

*