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Undercover
11-27-2010, 09:28 PM
Who in the world are these people that hate authors that promote their books on Amazon? For Christ Sake it is a buy/sell store. Authors should have every right to promote their work. Geez, I got my hair done the other day and the girl asked what I do for a living...I of course told her about my up and coming book...umm so was that bad too?

What do you guys think?

I read about 20 minutes of this and I found it funny...that people out there have nothing better to do then bash writer's and artists. They sit there and feed off of struggling artists umm perhaps they themselves are jealous and can't make it. There were a few good people in the thread standing up for what I also believe in.



http://www.amazon.com/tag/romance/forum/ref=cm_cd_pg_pg5?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=FxM42D5QN2YZ1D&cdPage=5&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=Tx1KEXQJ9H020OA&displayType=tagsDetail

Cella
11-27-2010, 09:38 PM
I'm not understanding what's going on here. In that link someone's going on about authors promoting their work outside of Amazon...?

I know there are some who have issues with purchasing from Amazon for various reasons, but this seems separate...

:Huh:

Undercover
11-27-2010, 09:42 PM
The thread title says: Amazon-Please Stop Self Promoters.

This just scares me being new to promoting. I wouldn't want to get bashed for promoting my book there. If you read over some of the thread there is some "cyberbullying" going on.

brainstorm77
11-27-2010, 10:22 PM
It read to me like they want people to stop spamming threads that are not meant for self promotion?

veinglory
11-27-2010, 10:29 PM
Indeed. As a person who uses the Amazon forums I find the authors who spam thread to be an embarrassment. Just because it is a store doesn't mean you can spam forums, post fake book reviews, bad mouth the competition and do anything to try to get a sale. There is an ettiquette in place and authors should respect it.

Cella
11-27-2010, 10:37 PM
So Amazon has a set aside place for their authors to promote their own work and still, some go about acting like trolls, giving everyone a bad name in the process... ?

thothguard51
11-27-2010, 10:39 PM
LMC,

Its not about hating authors, its about authors who spam their books in places they should not.

This spamming (self propomtion as many authors call it), is everywhere these days and is even giving good authors a bad name. They remind me of info commercial pitch men, no matter how good their books are.

This is not new or only found on Amazon. Myspace and Facebook are loaded with drive by authors hawking their latest CreateSpace and Kindle books. I belong to a Chess forum and we get Romance and Erotic authors spamming our group all the time. Thank the gods we have a good moderator who gets rid of that crap asap.

I used to go searching for samples of the books these authors spammed. After about a year, I stopped, they were all the same, and the quality was just not there...

Undercover
11-28-2010, 01:10 AM
Well, to me it was bothersome to read that some people were being bashed for promoting in the wrong place or something. But spam I can see it being removed, that makes sense.

I just wouldn't want to do or say anything wrong if I mentioned my book in any of the threads. It just seemed like that was taboo. I am all too new at this and I want to build a readership the right way.

Someone said in one of the forums that when you have a book coming out, Amazon suggests that you promote it in a thread or something. Then I read all that and was concerned and confused.

I am not even sure I know the full particulars on trolling.

Oh well, like I said, just looking for avenues to promote in the proper manner. But it seems like you're throwing bait to the sharks in those forums.

Cella
11-28-2010, 01:15 AM
I think the best thing to do is just what you're doing here; getting to know people & being part of the community. :)

Undercover
11-28-2010, 01:21 AM
I think the best thing to do is just what you're doing here; getting to know people & being part of the community. :)

Absolutely, this is definitely a better place to share and promote and even work on future projects.

When I went to Amazon it was to get some books on promoting and also to treat myself to a new novel, which I did. Then I stumbled into that mess.

Thanks again for the clarification Thothguard.

Cella
11-28-2010, 01:26 AM
lol--a mess, indeed. Amazon as a whole reminds me of a store with too narrow aisles & signs all over the place. I have a hard time focusing once I'm there.

:)

brainstorm77
11-28-2010, 01:27 AM
Promoting in the wrong place is spamming. If you do it here at AW and are warned and continue to do so, chances are you will get banned.

Undercover
11-28-2010, 01:32 AM
lol--a mess, indeed. Amazon as a whole reminds me of a store with too narrow aisles & signs all over the place. I have a hard time focusing once I'm there.

:)


Hahaha...you know you are so right. That place is like a maze, it took me 20 minutes to figure out how to even buy the books. LOL

Oh well, at least I accomplished that even though I got distracted by the drama. Not for me, no thanks. I'll leave all the drama to my novels.

Thanks again for consoling the worried here, I appreciate that!

Undercover
11-28-2010, 01:36 AM
Promoting in the wrong place is spamming. If you do it here at AW and are warned and continue to do so, chances are you will get banned.

Okay...but isn't the signature line you have promoting your book? You have it in every post connected to you. Same goes for me. I have a link and the avator is my book cover, so isn't that a type of promoting?

So what you are saying is a catch 22.

I could be wrong....

brainstorm77
11-28-2010, 01:43 AM
It's allowed in sigs here. There is also the option to turn off sigs and avatars on AW.


There is a huge difference in having something in your sig then going into a thread and asking people to buy your book(think telemarketer or door to door salesmen).

I don't and never will frequent Amazon forums. The few times I have looked in, the trolls have turned me from ever wanting to participate. I will agree however that if you are chatting about a certain topic and people wander in just to say buy my book and flash a link, it gets old fast. And from what I know there are threads on Amazon for promotions, so I don't know what all the fuss is about.

Cella
11-28-2010, 01:46 AM
I will agree however that if you are chatting about a certain topic and people wander in just to say buy my book and flash a link, it gets old fast. like getting hit in the face with a snowball. it's not even fun the one time...


:)

brainstorm77
11-28-2010, 01:50 AM
like getting hit in the face with a snowball. it's not even fun the one time...


:)


Yes. It's totally annoying.

thothguard51
11-28-2010, 01:54 AM
I have been a member of many writing and book forums and I can tell you, after a couple thousand of these, the moderators can't keep up. It can cause people to agrue and otherwise leave good forums...

The way I look at it, authors doing this type of self promoting (anywhere and everywhere) are the same things as the idiots sending spam on how to get Viagra through the mail. You never know what you are going to get...

Undercover
11-28-2010, 01:58 AM
Brainstorm thank you,

Okay, I got it. I just wanted clarification, because first and foremost I wouldn't want to turn people off from reading my work. I find it interesting the signature lines and avators here and I approve of that. It is a great display of art work and a great way to promote your book/ and /or books. I mean that is what we are all here for.

I just wanted to make sure my sig and avator are okay (would be devastated if I was ever banned here) But I don't think sigs are okay on Amazon though. But you bring up a good point, I don't know what all the fuss is about either.

I still don't know if I would ever post after my book comes out, not in those forums at least. I wouldn't want to be linked to any drama like that.

Okay...enough said. Man o man, this is going to be harder then I thought, What a headache. Good to know what I should and shouldn't do for the promoting aspects.

Just worries me to think people would bash you or your book for promoting it. It is how to promote it, not so much as where to promote.

Thanks again.

brainstorm77
11-28-2010, 02:08 AM
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34 And you can promote in this thread :)

Undercover
11-28-2010, 02:25 AM
Yes, I often read through those threads too. It's like a bookstore there and I think better then Amazon itself. I rather research books there then whats promoted on Amazon.

It's the same as in indie films too. It's refreshing to read an up and coming author rather than the best sellers all the time or watch a blockbuster hit.

AlexPiper
11-28-2010, 07:28 AM
Just worries me to think people would bash you or your book for promoting it. It is how to promote it, not so much as where to promote.

Honestly, I don't think it's too hard to figure out where's a good place to promote and where isn't. As a general rule, imagine any given thread like a conversation at a party, and your post as what you're saying in that conversation.

If the conversation is about chess and someone butted in to go "HEY so you like chess, but have you considered reading my paranormal romance novel??" you would probably think them rude. Unless their book involves chess in some integral way, anyway. If it's a romance novel about ghosts playing chess, that's at least somewhat on-topic! Butting into a thread and derailing it to advertise -- "self-promote" -- your own books is basically the same thing.

Similarly, if you poke into one conversation and go "Buy my book!" and then zip out to another conversation and go, "And YOU should buy my book!" and so on around the room, people are quickly going to get somewhat cheesed off.

The signature line is more like your nametag at a gathering. Sure, you're self-promoting, but people can ignore the nametag (turn off signatures) and focus on the conversation if they want. But if you run through the conversation waving your arms and shouting, "MY BOOK! YOU MUST BUY IT! YOU WILL LIKE IT! I WROTE IT! BUY IT NOW! IT IS MY BOOK! OVER HERE! FOR SALE NOW!" when they're trying to discuss, say, which the best variety of local apple cider is? Then that's much harder to ignore, and considerably more obnoxious.

veinglory
11-28-2010, 07:39 AM
The same forum users also make threads specifically for promoting books of certain types. So there is carrot as well as stick.

Terie
11-28-2010, 01:40 PM
This is a huge problem with Yahoo groups, too. I'm the moderator of an almost-3,000 member group for children's writers and illustrators, and we've had to institute big restrictions on self-promotion. There are people who, if allowed, will post every day regarding their book or their blog. These people join every Yahoo group they possibly can and spam-spam-spam.

In my group, active members are allowed one self-promotional post per month. To make it easy on themselves, quite a few of those who like to avail themselves of this have chosen 'the first' as their day to do it, so we get a lot of self-promo posts on the first, but as long as they stick to once a month, it's fine.

Also, in my Yahoo group, 'announcements' don't count as self-promotion. That is, if you've just made a sale or a book has just been released, given an award, had foreign rights sold, and so on, you can announce that at any time, regardless of your monthly alloted self-promo post.

Also, if something about your book is relevant to an actual discussion, that doesn't count as self-promo, either. For example, if someone asks about, say, whether it's all right to write occult-oriented books for middle-graders, it's fine for members who've published this kind of book to mention them, since it's an actual answer to an actual question.

But folks who come in and never participate in threads but just post messages to try to drive traffic to their blog or get members to buy their books? They're asked to stop, and if they don't, they're banned. The group is there to talk about writing and illustrating for children, not to be a captive audience to someone trying to sell something.

veinglory
11-28-2010, 09:39 PM
It is still a problem if you have a yahoogroup specifically for promoting books. Then you get people who promote the wrong genre, flood the group with two many posts and generally just don't bother to read how the group is being run. And don't get me started on some of those so-called promotion professionals. I used to email people when they crossed a line even though we have only three rules and they are not complicated, but after several nasty email replies now I just ban them. Sorry. But people get in a negative frame of mind for a reason.

Terie
11-29-2010, 12:40 AM
I've long suspected that there's some 'Book Self-Promotion for Dummies' type book out there that advises joining massive numbers of online forums to actively self-promote. There are just SOOOOO many people who do it.

The ones that amuse me are the ones who argue about why THEY are different from all the rest and should be granted an exemption. Ha!

Nuklear1
11-29-2010, 05:11 AM
Indeed. As a person who uses the Amazon forums I find the authors who spam thread to be an embarrassment. Just because it is a store doesn't mean you can spam forums, post fake book reviews, bad mouth the competition and do anything to try to get a sale. There is an ettiquette in place and authors should respect it.

I agree. As one who will soon have my first novel available on Amazon, the last thing I want to do is spam. That is no way to build a reputation.

vsrenard
11-30-2010, 08:00 PM
A lot of what I've seen on the Amazon threads is people asking for a book recommendation based on what people have read and authors will swoop in and recommend their own work. There are threads for self-promotion and no one complains if you self-promote there.

Splendad
02-07-2011, 10:16 AM
One cannot help but wonder if spamming could ever work for an author. Readers are an intelligent lot, for the most part, yes? Can you imagine being force-fed a book and saying to yourself, "Wow, I'm glad that one got through, because I'm going straight to the advertised site to buy it right away!" Don't spam. Honorable authors endure. Spammers choke on squid-stained mushroom logs.

Marian Perera
02-07-2011, 03:44 PM
On another discussion board I frequent, an author is spamming the claim that she has cancer and needs money for treatment, therefore please buy her (overpriced) book.

When I saw her first post, I felt sorry for her, but that wore off by the time I saw the sixth or seventh post saying the same thing, on threads that were about completely different subjects. I feel pretty skeptical about her claim now.

fireluxlou
02-07-2011, 04:28 PM
I think you're misunderstanding the thread I posted in that complaining, because I used to be a regular reader and commenter on the Amazon forums. These people are complaining about Authors who spam EVERY thread with a just one line relating to discussion of the topic then turning the thread into an advertisement for their books. It's like they don't even make an effort to become friendly with their readers on Amazon, get to know the community, participate in discussions when they turn every thread into their book discussion.

This happens on every single thread on Amazon and it is seriously irritating when the book doesn't even relate to the thread or the thread isn't even talking about books at all, regular Amazoners are just a bit tired of it, that is all. It's not bashing authors just bad promoters who in fact alienate their audience by promoting their work this way. Some authors on Amazon just need to take a class in the proper way to self promote. People will not look at your work if you spam all the threads up without even reading the topic. In fact this brings you a bad reputation amongst your readers and the people on Amazon, they will most likely avoid your work if you do this.

DrZoidberg
02-07-2011, 04:46 PM
I think it's good that people regularly make these anti-spam complaints. Just as a reminder to authors on how "it works". We all need to get the just-because-you-spent-over-a-year-writing-this-doesn't-mean-everybody-should-give-a-rats-ass-and-will-love-it reminder occasionally. It's just healthy.

Smaddux
02-22-2011, 05:54 PM
Kind of off subject, I agree that the amazon boards are a bit confusing, but I seem the think that B&N boards are the most confusing to me and I can never find books that I want to buy easily. Is it just me not knowing my way around or do other people find it hard over there too?