Rewrites and edits

[Honey Nut Loop]

Hidey ho everyone. I was just wondering how you all did your edits and rewrites. I imagine everyone has a different tactic. Anyone willing to part with their gold dust methods?

[Mike Martyn]

There are some great tips on the UNcle Jim thread. The suggestion is to chuck it in the drawer for a month so you forget it and start writing another novel. Then take it out and read it all the way through without doing any rewriting to get a sense of the whole story.

Get a sense of where it works and where it dosn't. Are there holes in the plot? Where does the book really begin? Are ther flashbacks that would be better of told in straight linear fashion? Do you want to flesh out some of he characters better, maybe add POV to a previously minor charqacter. Do you want to give them flaws so they seem more like real people? What about teh charqacters' diologue? Make sure you can tell each character apart by teh way they talk. Do you describe stuff to death and leave nothing to your reader's imagination?

That pretty much describes most of my flaws although my beta readers think the first one's very good after the partial re write.

Having said all that, bear in mind I've only written one novel which I am half way through re writes while working on the second novel.

[veinglory]

I pretty much start at the beginning and work through making any changes that seem required--no special method.

[Robin]

I'd like to say that I use Holly Lisle's One Pass Revision technique ( http://hollylisle.com/fm/Workshops/one-pass-revision.html ), after letting a story percolate for some time. But usually I just stare at the ms hopelessly and wonder how much a book doctor would cost. I hate revisions. It kills me to take out paragraphs even when I know they aren't working. But I do like Holly's approach.

(Sigh)
Robin

[MarkPettus]

I love revisions.

I always start my rewrites with a red pen, a blue pen, and a hard copy of the ms. I read outloud as I go, and correct for grammar, spelling, and punctuation. I look for holes in the story line, but I write without a plot, so I'm usually aware of the necessary additions well in advance of the rewrite. I look for the logical place to add scenes, and I subtract the dead ends and blind alleys that I had abandoned by book end. Then I put the very untidy stack of papers next to the keyboard and rekey the whole thing. I call that one rewrite, but because I change almost as much while rekeying as I did on the hard copy, I get two for the price of one.

Then I get a new red pen...

It's much harder for me to stop revising that it is to start.

[cwfgal]

I edit a lot as I go. Each time I sit down to write I begin by reading over the previous day's work and editing it. Sometimes I read back more than a day's worth, particularly when I'm starting a new novel. For the first 30 pages or so of a new novel, I generally read from the beginning. Sometimes when I hit the midbook slump, I'll start back at the beginning and read the whole thing--often that gives me the direction I need to continue.

One I've finished the ms, I print it all out and read it through with pen in hand, making corrections, tracking plot points, noting threads I may have left hanging, etc. Then, as someone else said, I rekey all that in and in the process of doing that, I generally edit some more.

Then I set the whole thing aside for a few weeks and forget about it. When I come back to it, I do another print out and read through. By the time I finish this second edit, I'm where I want to be most of the time.

Beth

[victoriastrauss]

I'd like to say that I use Holly Lisle's One Pass Revision technique ( http://hollylisle.com/fm/Workshops/one-pass-revision.html Let me second this recommendation--IMO, it's is a terrific technique for people who write straight through to the end.

For people who edit and revise as they go, it doesn't work as well. What I usually do:

- Read and edit the previous day's work before I get started on today's writing. This gets my brain into the writing groove.

- Re-read and re-edit each chapter as it's completed. If I think of something that needs to be changed in earlier chapters, or make a plot change that means I have to make adjustments to what I've already written, I do them when I think of them (rather than making a note and waiting till I'm finished).

- Re-read and re-edit each section as it's completed (my books are usually divided up into four or five parts).

- Set the ms. aside for a month or two, then do a complete read-through, revising as I go (mostly polishing at this point, but I usually have a list of specific issues I want to address as a result of suggestions from my beta readers). If it's a pre-sold book, deadlines may force me to skip this read-through, but I don't like to.

- If it's a book I haven't pre-sold, I'll do a second read-through-and-polish after another month or so, and at that point it'll be ready to submit. If it is a pre-sold book, it'll come back to me from my editor with suggestions for revisions, and I'll revise for her and do a final read-through-and-polish for myself.

- Victoria

[Cathy C]

My method is quite simple. I start with one question: "Why?"


Every single chapter, each scene, and every word out of a character's mouth should have a reason. It should do two of the following four things:

1) Advance the plot; or

2) Advance the character's development; or

3) Braid in a subplot; or

4) Follow logical necessity for the world.

If Martha goes to the grocery, there should be more than one reason. If she just has a sudden hankering for a candy bar, fine. That advances the character. She's impulsive, and likes chocolate. But she should meet someone there that's critical to the plot or a subplot, or having her there should cause a chain reaction of events that's useful. She might meet someone because a car hits her bumper in the parking lot, or a kidnapping was foiled because she left home unexpectedly, etc., etc.

Logic gaps and plot holes are the hardest things to catch. I do a lot of sample critiques, and the "Why?" is often the most overlooked element of a novel. The conversation usually goes something like this:

Me: "Okay, you have the hero arriving to save the heroine from the bad guy. Why?"

Author: "Well, because he's the hero, of course."

Me: "But, why does he save her? Why doesn't she call the police? Why doesn't she bolt out the back door and go to the neighbor's? You made her a martial artist, so why doesn't she kick his butt? Why does the hero just happen to stop by to save her? Just two pages ago, he was on the other end of town buying hardware."

Author: "Well, how else are they going to get to the romance scene? He has to be there!"

Sigh... Unfortunately, it isn't logical, but probably wound up this way because transitions from scene to scene are difficult and it was easier than rewriting the previous ten pages to set it up to flow better. But it doesn't advance the heroine's character, because it makes her stupid and weak. It doesn't advance the hero properly because it's awkward. It doesn't advance the plot properly, because it's illogical for the characters created, and the size of the town, and the traffic at the time of day and the realities of standing in line in a check-out at the hardware store. Etc., etc.

My best advice is to think like a reporter:

1) Who does the scene serve?
2) What does the scene accomplish?
3) When do the elements of the scene braid back in?
4) Where does the scene take you next?
5) Why does it make sense?

That's my "gold dust." :)

[scarletpeaches]

I used to edit as I went. Which is why I have so much unfinished crap lying about. Now I write straight through until the story says, "Stop." Then I edit in one. The first draft is either hand written or typed. I print (or write) it all out, edit and correct in a different coloured biro, then type it all out again with corrections, onto my laptop. Job done.

[LightShadow]

And isn't it amazing how the finished product often winds up quite differently from the original idea?

[Jamesaritchie]

No real tricks at all. I write fairly slowly and try to make the first draft as good as it can possibly be. Then, since I write first drafts in longhand, I type it all into the computer. This is my chance to do a mini second draft. I edit for clunky sentences and the like.

Once into the computer I let it sit for a couple of weeks. Up to a month, if there's time. There isn't always. I never miss deadlines, but I do tend to come down to the wire on a regular basis.

After the novel has rested, I start reading on page one, and read straght through, fixing whatever I find wrong.

[LightShadow]

No real tricks at all. I write fairly slowly and try to make the first draft as good as it can possibly be. Then, since I write first drafts in longhand, I type it all into the computer. This is my chance to do a mini second draft. I edit for clunky sentences and the like.

Once into the computer I let it sit for a couple of weeks. Up to a month, if there's time. There isn't always. I never miss deadlines, but I do tend to come down to the wire on a regular basis.

After the novel has rested, I start reading on page one, and read straght through, fixing whatever I find wrong.I used to longhand, but that was in the days before computers. I would write the first draft in spiral binders, then type them, retype them, retype them, etc etc. I did that too many years. My computer is now the most important (and used) appliance in the house. All drafts all the time on the computer. However, I do print, spread it out my house, move things around, cut and paste, my wife thinks I'm insane.

[Jamesaritchie]

I used to longhand, but that was in the days before computers. I would write the first draft in spiral binders, then type them, retype them, retype them, etc etc. I did that too many years. My computer is now the most important (and used) appliance in the house. All drafts all the time on the computer. However, I do print, spread it out my house, move things around, cut and paste, my wife thinks I'm insane.

I've tried the computer for first drafts. I produce crap. Pure codswallop. Takes way too much work to get the thing in submission shape. My longhandd first drafts are nearly ready to submit the moment I finish them. My computer first drafts make me want to give up writing.

As for being insane, I suspect that's a distinct advantage for any writer. Would a sane person even consider this line of work?

[LightShadow]

True, true, and true. But my hands are too old to maintain longhand for hours on end. Thank God for computers. However, whatever the methods are, it all depends on what works best for the writer. Correct? Using methods that work best will produce the best work. Preferences are owned and operated by the individuals. Damn, I love individuality.

[Julie Worth]

I've tried the computer for first drafts. I produce crap. Pure codswallop.

Damn Luddite!



I write in the morning, burn out, then edit what I’ve written. Sometimes I’ll read other writers to get me in the mood, and for cross-pollination. When I’m finished with the first draft, I read through from first to last, editing as I go. Mostly I work directly on the screen, because that’s so much faster, but I also get a book printed POD, and edit that. I read silently; I read aloud; sometimes I use a computer reader. And when it’s as good as I can make it, I get more books printed and give them out to a dozen or so beta readers. I’ve found that the more eyes I employ, the more methods I use, the more technologies, the better.

[LightShadow]

Damn Luddite!



I write in the morning, burn out, then edit what I’ve written. Sometimes I’ll read other writers to get me in the mood, and for cross-pollination. When I’m finished with the first draft, I read through from first to last, editing as I go. Mostly I work directly on the screen, because that’s so much faster, but I also get a book printed POD, and edit that. I read silently; I read aloud; sometimes I use a computer reader. And when it’s as good as I can make it, I get more books printed and give them out to a dozen or so beta readers. I’ve found that the more eyes I employ, the more methods I use, the more technologies, the better.





Isn't technology grand? I remember when...naw, we won't go there.

[scarletpeaches]

I remember when I used to write with *gasp* pen and paper! And keep it all in a ring binder!

[LightShadow]

Oh! We are ancient! Sometimes, however, it is nice to pull out the old pen and pencil for rewrites and edits. Most often, however, I prefer reading out loud as I gaze into my screen and fixing what doesn't flow and adding what needs to be added. (oh, and slashing what needs to be slashed).

[scarletpeaches]

God bless cut 'n' paste...:D (Saves me a fortune on tippex)!

[Jamesaritchie]

Damn Luddite!







That's just about the nicest thing anyone ever called me. Brings a tear to my eye, it does. You like me. You really like me!

[My-Immortal]

I remember when I used to write with *gasp* pen and paper! And keep it all in a ring binder!

I still take notes with pen and paper. I have thirty or forty notebooks in a filing cabinet just waiting for me to poke through. I used to write everything longhand, but fortunately for me, in recent years, I was able to shift gears and start composing on the computer. Now I have computer discs with rough drafts of novels, short stories, poetry and even a couple of scripts that all need major work.

Of course, what prompted me to post was the memory of writing on an old-fashioned typewriter when I was only seven or eight years old. I would struggle with some of the keys (especially A,Q,W,Z,X,P and O since I had to use my fourth or pinky fingers to strike them) and so the print varied in darkness depending on which fingers I used to strike the keys. I can't even imagine trying to compose on one of those now! LOL

Anyone else ever use an old manual typewriter...?

(and no, I'm not really THAT old!!) :)

[Pencilone]

One day I'll buy one of These Beauties (http://staff.xu.edu/~polt/typewriters/index.html) and go for a month or two to a recluse location to "just write"...
:cool: :Thumbs:

[Honey Nut Loop]

he he he. I'm so proud of my thread. Its funny and informative. What more could you want?

[scarletpeaches]

I used to use a manual typewriter, My-Immortal (love your song, by the way).

My mother ordered it from a catalogue, God knows why, she never wrote a story in her life; I think she just used it for letters back home. This was in the early 80s, by the way. I ended up using it more than she did, and as the keyboard was split-level, I used to tear the skin round my fingers jamming them between letters, as my fingers were just the right size to get caught in the gaps. I was about 7 years old then.

So I've been typing for over 20 years, hence my ballistic typing speed when I get going. Average, 50wpm. Highest, about 75wpm. Thank heavens for 'flat' keyboard! No more typing with sticky plasters round my fingers to protect them!

Anyone remember tippex paper, having to backspace, type the mistaken letter, backspace again, then type over it?

Ah, the 1980s...

[Nicholas S.H.J.M Woodhouse]

last year i had to edit this piece from 6k to 4k.
I just limited myself to one dodgy metaphor every paragraph, no rhetorical questions and hey presto, there i was.
sometimes taking out every third sentence helps. just to get you in an economical mindset.

[My-Immortal]

I used to use a manual typewriter, My-Immortal (love your song, by the way).

My mother ordered it from a catalogue, God knows why, she never wrote a story in her life; I think she just used it for letters back home. This was in the early 80s, by the way. I ended up using it more than she did, and as the keyboard was split-level, I used to tear the skin round my fingers jamming them between letters, as my fingers were just the right size to get caught in the gaps. I was about 7 years old then.

So I've been typing for over 20 years, hence my ballistic typing speed when I get going. Average, 50wpm. Highest, about 75wpm. Thank heavens for 'flat' keyboard! No more typing with sticky plasters round my fingers to protect them!

Anyone remember tippex paper, having to backspace, type the mistaken letter, backspace again, then type over it?

Ah, the 1980s...

Ah yes, the 80s! LOL. It's funny how you can have something in common with a total stranger, isn't it? I was using the manual typewriter in the very late 70s/early 80s and I was around the same age (and yes, you could quite easily get your fingers caught between the keys if they slipped off). The correction paper was horrid and if you even touched the typed page before you noticed the mistake forget trying to line it back up again!

As for the name/song...My-Immortal...yes, I do like the song very much and pretty much the entire CD. I basically wrote an entire fantasy novel while listening to that CD on repeat (over the span of many, many months).

Anyone else listen to certain music while they write? (sorry if this question is a little off topic...)

Take care all... :)

[victoriastrauss]

Anyone else ever use an old manual typewriter...?
(and no, I'm not really THAT old!!) :)Me either. But yes, I used a manual most of the way through college. Didn't switch to electric till after I graduated, and was supporting myself partly by typing student papers.

I jumped on the computer bandwagon early on, and never looked back. Writing in longhand...composing on the typewriter and having to handwrite corrections and use whiteout for mistakes...shudder.

- Victoria

[cwfgal]

My method is quite simple. I start with one question: "Why?"


Every single chapter, each scene, and every word out of a character's mouth should have a reason. It should do two of the following four things:

1) Advance the plot; or

2) Advance the character's development; or

3) Braid in a subplot; or

4) Follow logical necessity for the world.

:)


I like this (though I don't know why!http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif ) It's good advice. All too often writers try to increase their word or page count by adding unnecessary filler that bogs down the flow.

Beth

[Jamesaritchie]

I would struggle with some of the keys (especially A,Q,W,Z,X,P and O since I had to use my fourth or pinky fingers to strike them) and so the print varied in darkness depending on which fingers I used to strike the keys. I can't even imagine trying to compose on one of those now! LOL

Anyone else ever use an old manual typewriter...?

(and no, I'm not really THAT old!!) :)

I love manual typewriters to death, and I've done a bunch of writing on them. I'd still be using one if I could find extra bolack cottons ribbons to fit mine.

As for the keys, it's a shame no one ever taught you to type newspaper style. It's done using only the index fingers, but it isn't hunt and peck, and it's almost as fast as touch typing. Faster than the average touch typist. You can see it being done in some of those really old B&W movies about reporters. Some of those early manuals had keys you just could hit hard enough with ring and pinky fingers, especially if the ribbon was a bit worn. Reporters had to type fast and legibaly, so newspaper style was the natural choice.

I still type modified newspaper style, which means using just four fingers and my right thumb.

The first short story I sold was typed on a manual typewriter. In journalism classes, we had both electric typewriters and early computers, but we also had portable manuals for use in the field. I love 'em. I even have Noisy Keyboard install on my computer so it sounds like a manual typewriter.

[azbikergirl]

I started typing on my dad's manual typewriter as a kid. I still sort of type that way, too, but I do use my ring fingers (but never the pinkies). I just adjust my hand position. And I use an ergo keyboard.

[carley]

Speaking of typewriters and things . . . How many of you hunt and peck at the computer keyboard? I'd never taken any typing classes in school so I've always been of the hunt and peck variety. Since I've been writing a couple thousand words a day (okay, a couple hundred as of the last few days; I'm in a bit of a slump) I can hunt and peck without looking at the keyboard. My husband thinks it funny, he of the typing school alumni, but I personally think it's pretty neat. But maybe I just need a life . . . :idea:

UUHHH . . . I just read Jamesaritchie's post. I guess that's what I'm doing. Newspaper Style. (Slinks off, not feeling so special anymore :) )

[scarletpeaches]

I touch type. It's just a natural consequence of having typed for so long. And of now having a flat keyboard!

[Honey Nut Loop]

Urgh. It's half three in the morning and i didn't know where to post. Thought i'd hiack my hijacked thread. Can't sleep. What's the time in the USA?

[scarletpeaches]

God knows, but here in Jolly Old Scotland it's too f***in' late o'clock!

[Honey Nut Loop]

So i'm not the only insomniac then. Hi scarletpeaches :hi:

[AncientEagle]

Anyone else ever use an old manual typewriter...?

(and no, I'm not really THAT old!!) :)

Yes, the very first short story I sent out - and it sold - was composed and finalized on a manual Smith-Corona Clipper portable. I bought it on time and paid for it out of the check I received for the story. Carried it all over the world until it was stolen from me fifteen years later. Broke my heart.

Years after that, when I came upon an IBM Correcting Selectric, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. At that point I couldn't conceive of writing with a computer. Now I can hardly conceive of not doing so. Still, the manuals were great inventions; I could type pretty fast on one when I was in practice, but the occasional mistake was a real pain.

And I AM that old.

[AncientEagle]

The correction paper was horrid and if you even touched the typed page before you noticed the mistake forget trying to line it back up again! :)

Correction paper? Correction fluid? All that new-fangled stuff? The original way I was taught to correct an error was to move the carriage, erase the error carefully with a typing eraser (holding a cut-out index card beneath to catch the bits of rubber and paper fibers), brush all the garbage off the page, then re-type - quite often nervously making the same mistake again. Correction paper and correction fluid were sort of like the beginnings of the jet age after the prop plane era in aviation.

But you young folks wouldn't understand all that.

[Jamesaritchie]

Speaking of typewriters and things . . . How many of you hunt and peck at the computer keyboard? I'd never taken any typing classes in school so I've always been of the hunt and peck variety. Since I've been writing a couple thousand words a day (okay, a couple hundred as of the last few days; I'm in a bit of a slump) I can hunt and peck without looking at the keyboard. My husband thinks it funny, he of the typing school alumni, but I personally think it's pretty neat. But maybe I just need a life . . . :idea:

UUHHH . . . I just read Jamesaritchie's post. I guess that's what I'm doing. Newspaper Style. (Slinks off, not feeling so special anymore :) )

Well, newspaper style really isn't hunt and peck. It's actually two-fingered touch typing, and 70-80 words per minute is easy enough. A really good newspapr style typist can hit 100 words per minute.

[Jamesaritchie]

Corrextion fluid? What's that? Mistakes? With a manual typewriter, a mistake is merely an excuse to see how well the X key works.

[My-Immortal]

So i'm not the only insomniac then. Hi scarletpeaches :hi:

It's pushing 12:30am here in the US now (atleast in the midwest), and lately I've found myself not being able to sleep either. I'm recovering from a couple of surgeries (doing much better now), but the doc says I'm still anemic. Anyway, hello to all you "nightowls". :)

As for typing style...I taught myself the standard keyboard back when I was eight or so, then was required to take a typing class in high school so I've never been one to 'hunt and peck'. I have seen the newspaper style but I don't think I could (or would want to try) to switch now.

Sorry, this is starting to get a bit off topic, isn't it? LOL

As for editing style - I usually try to just get the first draft out of my head as quickly as possible and then I print out what I have and start marking it up with a red pen. I then write a second draft and have others read that version. A couple of my readers are great at editing so after they are done I usually write a third and final draft.

Good night all - I'm going to try and get some sleep. :)

[reph]

a cut-out index card beneath to catch the bits of rubber and paper fibers
That was the low-tech version. One could upgrade by buying a plastic card with a die-cut hole in it for the same purpose, sort of an Index Card 2.0.

[MichaelSt]

I am rewriting a manuscript right now and using a series of survey forms or questionnaires designed to put the whole thing in perspective for me. I have created a series of simple one-page "fill-in-the-blank" forms that I use to survey such things as chapter content and structure, character development, emotional portrayal, and even one for epigraphic listings. The forms are still works in progress themselves and I make changes to them as I see needful but they have already been a great help to me.

The idea seemed natural to me when I realized that I was rewriting the same bits over and over again without really coming to understand what I was accomplishing on each successive pass except for making myself crazy by reason of repetitive stress (on my brain).

So now I can map each story element from start to finish and can show relationships between all my characters and plot threads, (as they are in the manuscript and not just as I have imagined them to be in my head)

This difference is crucial for the act of surveying the manuscript and recording what things actually exist in ink on paper instead of what things exist in my head and outline has allowed me to address more issues in the last three months than I had previously been able to approach in the previous year and a half.

I've added two samples of these forms to show what kind of things I am surveying. The "Manuscript Questionnaire" doubles as an outline creation form and may be used to survey manuscripts of any length be they short stories, novels, or simply chapters within a novel (my own reason for creating them).

The "Expressions Questionnaire" came into being as I sought a means to catalogue my observations of people or to "Borrow" stylistic ideas from other authors while preventing any personal misadventures in plagiarism.

Michael, that’s just ME, in Seattle.

[Thekherham]

First, I write straight through. I have everything in my head, the characters, the setting, the plot... It just sits there, waitin g for me to get to the computer and start typing. The I forget about it for a while... like a month or two or... When the time is right (whenever that might be) I read it... aloud. I found that's the best way to catch mistakes, bad dialogue etc... And I cut and slash and kill lots of flowery language and cliches that should have been buried a long time ago. Then I put it away again... Next time I read it, I know it will sound better than the first time, but it might need still more editing.
Yeah, I know. I'm really really picky.