TERMINOLOGY QUESTION--YA NOVEL

[rhymegirl]

I was asking my daughter, who just graduated from high school last year, to name off some slang words kids use nowadays to describe someone who is "different", "weird" or just plain "unpopular" in their eyes. She could only think of one.

I need to know this because of the book I'm writing. I want to make sure it rings true.

My question is: If I use a term that my kids can identify, how do I know if teens in other parts of the country will know what it means?

[Niesta]

Google it and see what you find.

Also: tell us here. We're curious now, if nothing else!

[Tish Davidson]

Dweeb or Loser seem to be popular as in What a dweeb.

[Inspired]

Not all kids will identify with the term you choose, for a couple of reasons. One, as you mentioned, is that there are regional differences. Another important reason is timing. By the time you've gotten the book you're writing published, it will be years down the road. Who knows what will work then?

I see you having a few choices:

1. Don't use anything that may fade from popularity. Avoid it.
2. Use something trendy. It will add flavor to your piece.
3. Try to choose something universal. Jerry Spinelli has a book named Loser. It worked for him (but he is a prolific, famous author, so it may not work for you.)

[Stephanie]

We had this discussion (or one similar, anyway) not that long ago, but I can't put my hands on the thread.

The best bit of advice I recall was one writer who said to make up your own words or phrases. Personally, I think a character spewing Shakespearian insults (http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/Shaker/) would be brilliant, but then that's just me.

"Hence rotten thing! Or I shall shake thy bones out of thy garments."

[alleycat]

I know a writing website with a separate teen forum; teens from all over. If you want to send me the word by PM, I'll post it these and see what they say. I could also ask if they know of other common terms for what you're describing.

ac

[Onlymike]

Hi. First time poster to the children's forum. As a junior high English teacher, I recommend avoiding what you think are currently 'hip' words, as you're most likely to embarrass yourself. Stick with the tried and true.

1. Don't use anything that may fade from popularity. Avoid it.

[Niesta]

Good point Mike. There's no better way to date yourself, too.

I still wanna know what it IS!

[Honey Nut Loop]

Such is the advantage of being a teenager writing from 1st person POV of a teenager(i.e. I'm 18)

I would agree with others. Avoid this hip words. If you don't know them then you'll be hard pressed to make them sound natural. I would suggest reading the Louise Rennison 'Confessions of Georgia Nicholson' books though. That'll give you insight into teenagehood.

[KTC]

I think Tish had good ones. Dweeb and loser have been around for a while...especially loser. I remember dweeb from at least the early 80s. I think it gained popularity when Jud Nelson's character used it in Breakfast Club? I agree with the others who said not to use words that might only be passing fads.

[rhymegirl]

Also: tell us here. We're curious now, if nothing else!

You asked what was the word my daughter gave me to describe someone who is unfashionable. She said the kids say someone is a "scrub."

I did google it and I didn't find it as a slang word.

I worked on that chapter already and I did use her word but now I might go back and change it. I really wanted to use a contemporary slang word. But I do realize that by the time my novel is published (positive thinking here), that word may be out of style.

[alleycat]

Scrub is a slang term.

You might reconsider and use "loser" instead; I would think "loser" might be more universally understood, now and in the future.

Just a thought.

ac

[Solatium]

You might reconsider and use "loser" instead; I would think "loser" might be more universally understood, now and in the future.

I agree. Speaking as a recent ex-teenager, I believe "dweeb" is terribly dated. "Loser" will never go away.

Also, in case you haven't seen it yet, Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/) is a great source for recent slang. Tread carefully, because there are a lot of joke entries and other stupid things -- but still, it's nothing if not comprehensive.

Incidentally, here are three of the Urban Dictionary definitions of "scrub."

Someone who is moked and picked on by his/her peers as if they were a lower lifeform.
1.commonly used in middle school or high school, originating from the practice of using a Freshman's (or underclassman's) head to "scrub" the inside of a toilet.
2.simply a new comer or underling
A dude who act like a playa or like he sumthin but really got nothin. A broke guy with no job, no car, no girl..etc

A loser with nothing to offer a woman.

[Valona]

Something else to think about when writing any kind of novel. Will the slang date the work? Does it matter that the story is set in 2005, or will anyone 30, 40, 50 years from now still want to read it? A lot of current slang will assure the book is forever set in the current era.

[rhymegirl]

Thanks everybody!

I really do appreciate all your input. It has given me a lot to think about. I probably should go with "loser". My daughter doesn't think it's as good a word to use as scrub, but then she is young and doesn't understand this whole notion of wanting a book to still be relevant in years to come.

I was having the same problem when I was trying to figure out what kinds of clothes my main character could be wearing that might make her subject to ridicule. Back when I went to high school, the girls sometimes wore dresses and skirts, in addition to jeans. So I could easily make her wear a dress that's too long or something. But now most kids wear jeans to school. How do you make fun of that? My kids said that maybe if the girl doesn't wear the latest fashions, the designer labels, she would be make fun of.

Any thoughts on that?

[alleycat]

You could use scrub, but use "loser" nearby.
Girl1: "Jason is such a scrub."
Girl2: "I know, what a loser." (something like that anyway...that's an awful example, I know).

Clothes? Something too cute or girlish (jeans with cute little teddy bears on the pockets); big sister's hand-me-downs that don't quite fit; western clothes (if set in the east--"hick"), eastern clothes (if set in the west--"dude"); dressed like a "young Republican" (a little too preppie in other words); around here, I think ANYTHING from the Gap or Old Navy is now OUT (you could have an imaginary store..."Pu-ee. Did you see Jennifer? She's wearing a blouse from The Sunshine Shoppe!"); shoes that are not IN (whatever those are nowadays); a strange mis-match of clothes; anything from Lane Bryant? :-")

Oh, and don't forget...ugly, "granny" undies, or a bra like buxom older women wear (uh, no offense to any buxom older women in the audience...we're talking about teens here...)

ac

[trumancoyote]

Dweeb is way too dated. You can always go w/ freak, loser's good, or a timeless classic: dingleberry.

[Zolah]

Freak, loser, wierdo and geek are all pretty timeless. Anyone who uses the word dweeb is instantly going to mark THEMSELVES out as one.

Clothes that might make someone the object of ridicule would be...obviously cheap, generic clothes (back in my day there was a shop called Primark and if someone thought you were wearing clothes from there, you were done for) 'goth' clothes, that is, black or dark clothes that have a witchy look about them, or, if everyone else is wearing jeans and T-shirts, a neat skirt and blouse might get you unwanted attention (fell foul of that one myself).

[Grey Malkin]

Invent new ones.

Example:
Anne: "You're a glibbet. You wear glibbet clothes, you've got glibbet hair and you're friends are all class 'A' glibbets."
Bill "What's a glibbet?'
Anne: "Look in the mirror and find out."

Either way, Bill is going to feel that being a Glibbet, whether he knows what it is or not, is not the best thing to be.

Colin M

[RubyRoo]

In England, not that that will help, minger (pronounced ming-er not minge-er) means that.

[RubyRoo]

And neek is a good one too for a nerdy guy.

[Bufty]

'Wheel' and 'chocolate' are a couple of others my kids use.:Shrug:

[RubyRoo]

Oh and lots of people say chav even though thats not what it means! Chav is a burberry adorner, fish suit wearing, just do it bag swinging teenager!:D

[Kida Adelyne]

We make up our words! Seriously, my friend will call me a 'schmoo', as an affectionate term if I've done somthing stupid. This is the reason that all the slang pretty much gets dated quickly. Either make up words, or use timeless ones such as Loser or wierdo.

[Grey Malkin]

My point about "glibbet" is that they all tend to mean the same: minger, loser, waster, spanner, geek, nerd, lacky, slacker, chaver, chav, weed, hack, beck or even (possibly the most unfortunate) a "Gordon" (sorry to any Gordons out there). Mike Levy hit the nail on the head; if you use a fashionable term, then at some point, it will no longer be in fashion (we all hope our books have longevity), so the word itself doesn't matter, it's how you use it within the text, how you make it clear that this term is an insult that gives it power. To use a fashionable term without making it clear is lazy writing because you're relying on the audience to fill in the gaps and realise that you mean to be insulting. But if you make it clear that the term is derogitory from the outset, you can call them a "daffodil" if you want to, and still make the reader know we're talking about a geek.

but for the record, I quite like "spanner" and "dweeb".

Colin M

[September skies]

out in Central California, my daughters (13, 15) say that Dweeb is out. And the big names are Loser, Geek and L7 is really big. (I guess L7 signifying a square, because when they say it, they simultaneously make a square shape with thumb and forefinger of both hands)

But also out here, if any of the kids are caught saying any of the words above, it is an automatic one-day suspension. (Even if they say it in fun to each other or about themselves)

[alisonbruce]

We make up our words! Seriously, my friend will call me a 'schmoo', as an affectionate term if I've done somthing stupid. This is the reason that all the slang pretty much gets dated quickly. Either make up words, or use timeless ones such as Loser or wierdo.

That what I did as a teen (long ago in a galaxy far far away). I also remember pulling on other languages. (Less likely to get in trouble with the teachers that way.) My daughter has taken to going around and calling people "scunners" ever since reading Wee Free Men by Terry Pratchett. Come to think of it, so have I.

[Grey Malkin]

...and how many kids have used the term "mudblood" and "muggle" in passing conversation.
Mostly dweebs, like, but there you go... :hooray:

[RubyRoo]

out in Central California, my daughters (13, 15) say that Dweeb is out. And the big names are Loser, Geek and L7 is really big. (I guess L7 signifying a square, because when they say it, they simultaneously make a square shape with thumb and forefinger of both hands)

But also out here, if any of the kids are caught saying any of the words above, it is an automatic one-day suspension. (Even if they say it in fun to each other or about themselves)

Yep on the nail, and also for looser cause of the L shape...(well I never!):D