View Full Version : Attn: Grammar Police - Help!
Unique
09-26-2005, 08:31 AM
OK, Ok, ok, and okay. Which is better? Does it matter? Formal/informal. Transcribing conversations. Pick one and stay with it throughout the document, of course - But - are there standards?
Anyone?
"O.K.," "OK," or "okay." To my eye, the last is more formal, though all are low on the formality ladder. The American Heritage Dictionary discusses usage for this term but doesn't say which spellings are preferred in which contexts.
Unique
09-26-2005, 04:55 PM
OK, thanks, reph. I knew I could count on you.
I find that I usually use OK if it comes at the opening of a sentence, but I use okay if it is in the middle. I just wondered if one were preferred over the other because I want to stay consistent throughout the document.
:Shrug:Guess, I'll let my 'fingers do the talking' and sort it out in proof.
alleycat
09-26-2005, 05:32 PM
Just an opinion...I would go with "okay" unless it was a humorous or very informal piece of writing.
Have you checked The Chicago Manual of Style? I have a copy but I don't have it handy at the moment. I'm sure the usage of "okay" would be in it.
ac
Julie Worth
09-26-2005, 06:01 PM
I tend to use ok sometimes, but when I'm done, I find and replace them with okay. You can't go wrong that way.
MarkPettus
09-26-2005, 07:49 PM
You're writing dialogue?
How does the character spell it? I use okay, but some of my characters use OK, and one uses just plain 'k.
three seven
09-26-2005, 11:08 PM
Have you checked The Chicago Manual of Style?Before doing this, first check whether you're American.
To answer the question, I say 'Ok' at the beginning of a sentence, and 'ok' in the middle. Or at the end, obviously.
Cathy C
09-26-2005, 11:31 PM
You indicated that you're transcribing the conversation --- I presume from a tape of two (or more) people talking? In that case, I would make certain that there is no possible misunderstanding. Use the spelled out "okay."
Okay? ;)
Unique
09-26-2005, 11:41 PM
Thanks all! I am transcribing conversations. I think I'll use the 'Find' function and change my OK's to okay. Sometimes it comes up quite a lot; other times not at all. This time it came up often enough for me to say, 'Hmmm...'
I only transcribe from English into English, but not all of my clients are American. It makes life interesting.
three seven
09-27-2005, 12:08 AM
I would make certain that there is no possible misunderstanding. Use the spelled out "okay."I'm not trying to be contentious here, but how can you possibly misunderstand 'ok'?
katiemac
09-27-2005, 12:49 AM
A non-native English speaker may not necessarily misunderstand "ok," just think it's a different word from "okay." Especially if they're used to seeing the latter.
My two cents on the matter: I can't stand reading "OK" or "O.K." I suppose it might work for young adult and children's novels, but I lean on the side of full spelling.
alleycat
09-27-2005, 02:20 AM
Before doing this, first check whether you're American.
Good point, but was it necessary?
three seven
09-27-2005, 02:59 AM
If it was a good point, why are you challenging it? Never mind. Give me one good reason why it wasn't and I'll tell you exactly why it was.
Unique
09-27-2005, 04:00 AM
Wait! Don't go hijacking my thread! (LOL - go ahead, I probably do it, too)
But seriously, I understand Three's point that the Chicago Manual of Style wouldn't be 'the' source to check if I weren't American, and especially if my clients weren't American.
Good grief! Who do you call when the grammar police are starting the riot?
I'm not trying to be contentious here, but how can you possibly misunderstand 'ok'?
Investigator: So, where did you find the body?
Suspect: (garbled) Ok.
Investigator: Oh kay? You mean, Oklahoma?
Suspect: No, no, check it dogg, straight up it was like this, okay?
Investigator: Ok? The OK Corral?
Suspect: You straight frontin fool?
Investigator: Okay, not the OK Corrall. Okey Street?
Suspect: Man, you straight up whack, shnizzle! I said it 'ohtay'
Investigator: Oh, Tay? Taye Diggs?
Suspect: Yeah dogg, it was Taye, he done told me where I could find the body. He came to me, like y'know, in one of them visions. I axed him where to find the girl and he told me.
Investigator: Taye Diggs told you where to find the body. I think we're going by here a long time.
Suspect: Whack dogg, whack!
Nope, can't understand where ANYBODY could POSSIBLY misunderstand Ok when it's being read on the page. Or being heard. Since, y'know, transcripts are usually written documents of verbal communication. And should one person actually misunderstand, for whatever reason, what was actually said, then the transcriber needs to understand that as well. Though with "okay" there is less confusion as to what is actually meant when it could be ambigious.
But hey, I like your point. Nobody could ever confuse the two.
Rabe...
Unique
09-27-2005, 01:42 PM
Oh, Rabe -
You gave me a good giggle early in the morning. Thanks. <snort>
alleycat
09-27-2005, 02:10 PM
If it was a good point, why are you challenging it? Never mind. Give me one good reason why it wasn't and I'll tell you exactly why it was.
Because it was Unique's question and I knew she was American. I assumed any one else interested in the question would disregard my comment if it didn't apply to where they hoped to publish.
However, you did bring up a valid point, so I'll change my original post to:
Have you checked The Chicago Manual of Style or other standard reference applicable to your locale and your type of writing?*
*Since even in the US, the Chicago Manual is often considered more applicable to fiction and the AP Guide to non-fiction.
I hope that clears up any mis-understanding. Sorry, Unique if I helped hijack your thread. :-")
ac
Unique
09-27-2005, 02:22 PM
No problemo, Alleycat. I like to see where the threads end up....
Most of my work is non-fiction. The AP Manual is available at the library, so I use that when I need to -
I don't have the time to do much fiction (time to let the imagination run free) so that horse stays in the barn most of the time. sad, very sad.
alleycat
09-27-2005, 02:29 PM
Most of mine is fiction which is why I jumped to the idea of checking the Chicago Manual. Actually, I take the thing off the shelf only as a last resort since I know it'll probably refer me to 18 different pages ("Okay, OK, O.K., 43, 56, 87, 123, 222, 459...") and I'll probably end up more confused than when I started.
It was an interesting question, Unique. I'd never really given it much thought.
ac
The Chicago manual pertains to academic nonfiction primarily, because that's what the University of Chicago Press publishes.
Jamesaritchie
09-30-2005, 04:13 PM
Technically, any form of Okay is fine, and may even be different words that mean the same thing.
The only problem with Ok is that some people may have a brief mental flash of Oklahoma, which is breviated OK.
O.K. is the one that seems to confuse most people. It confuses me. What does the "O" stand for?
The one that never seems to confuse readers is "Okay," but use the one you like. You'll be correct.
three seven
09-30-2005, 05:52 PM
"Dave, can you hear me? Are you alright? Are you hurt?"
"Calm down Judy, I'm small, dry and dusty and shaped a like a foam finger. I'm bordered by Kansas and Texas to the North and South, and Arkansas to the East. I have a population of 3.45 million and am best-known as the eponymous setting of a Rodgers & Hammerstein musical."
"Oh, thank God..."
;)
Perks
09-30-2005, 06:33 PM
"Dave, can you hear me? Are you alright? Are you hurt?"
"Calm down Judy, I'm small, dry and dusty and shaped a like a foam finger. I'm bordered by Kansas and Texas to the North and South, and Arkansas to the East. I have a population of 3.45 million and am best-known as the eponymous setting of a Rodgers & Hammerstein musical."
"Oh, thank God..."
OK, ok, okay, that may be the funniest thing I've read since 'The Gun Seller.' Having been born in Oklahoma, I may just have to print that out and hang it on the wall.
The only problem with Ok is that some people may have a brief mental flash of Oklahoma, which is breviated OK.
Believe me when I say that very few people outside of the Great State of Oklahoma ever give it a thought. So, according to Three Seven, you're only jeopardizing three and half million potential readers. Out of six billion, a mere pittance.
three seven
09-30-2005, 07:49 PM
And indeed, Oklahoma has an 18% level-1 illiteracy rate, so you would in fact be confusing a maximum of 2.829 million readers.
maestrowork
10-01-2005, 01:52 AM
I think it's either OK (all caps) or okay. Personally, I'd use "okay."
arrowqueen
10-01-2005, 03:12 AM
I, on the other hand, would go for 'OK' since it's a phonetic rendering of the abbreviation of 'All correct' from WW2 (I think) - rather in the same way that 'jeep' comes from the phonetic version of the abbreviation 'GP' for 'general purpose vehicles.'
Aren't you glad I shared that with you?
arrowqueen
10-01-2005, 03:24 AM
Mind you, going by the 'jeep' analogy, that would make 'okay' correct.
Bugger!
Och, please yourself. Your reader's not going to care either way.
Jamesaritchie
10-01-2005, 06:42 AM
I, on the other hand, would go for 'OK' since it's a phonetic rendering of the abbreviation of 'All correct' from WW2 (I think) - rather in the same way that 'jeep' comes from the phonetic version of the abbreviation 'GP' for 'general purpose vehicles.'
Aren't you glad I shared that with you?
That used to be the story, but it's been show not to be true. Okay and Ok were both around long before WWII.
Jamesaritchie
10-01-2005, 06:45 AM
OK, ok, okay, that may be the funniest thing I've read since 'The Gun Seller.' Having been born in Oklahoma, I may just have to print that out and hang it on the wall.
Believe me when I say that very few people outside of the Great State of Oklahoma ever give it a thought. So, according to Three Seven, you're only jeopardizing three and half million potential readers. Out of six billion, a mere pittance.
Well, Ok always flashes Oklahoma into my mind, and I don't live there. There's also postal workers, and all those who mail letters to Oklahoma. And funny or not, it's something I saw in a poll a few years back. It is never wise to assume that all six billion people on earth are completely literate.
And, hey, when you're living in a country where the postal service refuses to mail a letter to New Mexico unless it has foriegn postage attached, which has happened several times, never assume anything.
Jamesaritchie
10-01-2005, 06:49 AM
And indeed, Oklahoma has an 18% level-1 illiteracy rate, so you would in fact be confusing a maximum of 2.829 million readers.
Want to bet on how many writers ever have 2.829 million readers to confuse. In all likelihood, you'll be confusing three readers, all told. But I did see that in a poll once, and it's never wise to assume people don't sometimes get jolted like this.
From now on, I bet you will, as well. Once the thought is in your head, getting it out again is nearly impossible. Before I saw that poll, "Ok" never flashed Oklahoma in my head. Now it does so each and every time.
three seven
10-01-2005, 06:53 AM
It is never wise to assume that all six billion people on earth are completely literate.That's very true, as indeed I pointed out previously. But the illiterate ones aren't going to be reading your book, are they? So who gives a sh*t?
three seven
10-01-2005, 06:55 AM
From now on, I bet you will, as well. Once the thought is in your head, getting it out again is nearly impossible. Before I saw that poll, "Ok" never flashed Oklahoma in my head. Now it does so each and every time.If it does, James, I shall hold you personally responsible. And this time, I will be buying a rifle.
Ever notice that "US" is spelled the same as "us," but bigger?
I bet you will now.
arrowqueen
10-03-2005, 12:37 AM
Don't think about a unicorn.
Unique
10-03-2005, 03:13 AM
Don't think about a unicorn.
Or that pink elephant in the corner...
Okay - so we won't say OK because we don't want to remind folks of Oklahoma; and we won't say Ok, because it looks like an oak with the 'a' missing; and we won't say O.K. because we don't want to start a gunfight....so - we'll agree on okay, OK?
Just use the word, you know, the real word. . .okay. . . then no one back up the way there will have to think about us poor dumb okies or anything else for that matter.
Without going into a lot of details for the story, we also won't think about that "outsider" who moved in here a few years back and took it upon himself to speak for the illiterates of our area without consulting them (as a matter of his job - as he saw it). He ended up explaining to the guys in Washington why it was appropriate that he be able to speak for the consensus without consulting them. . .because "everybody down there is illiterate." He went home with his tail tucked between his legs when one panel member, after listening to his spiel, advised him that he was born and reared in that same part of Oklahoma.
Ignorance comes in many shapes and forms.
three seven
10-03-2005, 06:20 AM
Sorry Fern, I'm confused. Who are you calling ignorant?
I'm not calling anyone ignorant. Who are you calling illiterate?
three seven
10-03-2005, 04:36 PM
18% of the population of Oklahoma. And if you wish to take issue with that, I suggest you take it up with the board of education, not me.
Shwebb
10-05-2005, 05:22 AM
Sing along w/ me, please. (You know you want to!)
OKLAHOMA! WHERE THE WIND COMES SWEEPING DOWN THE PLAINS!
I don't know the rest of the song, but what I do know is now stuck there, thanks to reading this thread a few days ago.
(Where the corn's as high as an elephant's eye. . .)
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