What are the odds? Really?

[stace001]

I'm disappointed about the number of unpublished writers yet to get their shot at the big time. (or even to just have their writing noticed by someone is the industry)
I'm currently editing my third novel, and while i didn't put too much effort in getting the first one represented, I'd really like to see the second one find an agent. it was during the editing process of my second that i fell across this site. The number of amazing writers still searching for agents and publishers is frustrating. What hope do we all have of getting our work out there?
For the most part, I'm positive and confident about my writing abilities, but when thoughts like this occur to me, it almost seems pointless. I get great joy out of writing, but its not always enough. I want others to enjoy reading my stories as much as i enjoy writing them. Do we have much of a chance? Really?

[HConn]

New writers get published all the time. If you have a manuscript that people think will garner an audience, you will get published. Just keep at it.

This new writer just signed a two-book deal. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/affinity8/77914.html)

This guy's new book came out this year. (http://stephan-zielinski.com/)

Good luck,



HConn, just dropping back in for a bit.

[Jamesaritchie]

There are no odds, except the odds of how well you write, and how dedicated you are. Or maybe a better way of saying it is "how well you tell a story and build characters."

If you can do this, and have the dedication, you're in. If you can't do this, you're probably out.

Just make up your mind that you can do it.

[Garpy]

the odds are pretty tall. There's a lotta writers out there, hawking around their manuscripts. If there's one suggestion I can make....it worked for me...make your script stand out from the get-go.

Don't write yet another YA novel featuring a dragon of any kind.

Don't write yet another crimer thriller, featuring a PI or cop with some neurosis , drink problem or debilatating emotional hang-up

Don't write about an early 30's professional woman, juggling a career, and motherhood in lightly whimsical way.

Do look for an area/genre that has been neglected for a while, isn't crowded with me-too writers, and find a refreshing new way to 'paint' the genre.

[Cathy C]

Now, see --- I disagree. I think that really fresh, clever books with dragons will ALWAYS sell, and thrillers/PI novels from newbie authors hit the stands every day. I wish I could tell you the secret, but I can't. If it helps though, I've only been at this writing thing since 1999, when I joined forces my co-author. Our first book came out in 2003, then one in 2004, one this year and three next year. So yes, Virginia (well, okay, stace001), it happens every day. Keep an eye on these forums, and nearly every week you'll find someone who found a real agent or was offered a new contract.

The one thing they have in common is perseverance. Every one of us kept pushing and pushing to become a better writer and searching for just the right agent and house to fit the book.

Good luck!

[James D. Macdonald]

If you've written a book that surprises and delights, a strong story strongly told, your odds are excellent.

If you haven't, your odds are abysmal.

[victoriastrauss]

the odds are pretty tall. There's a lotta writers out there, hawking around their manuscripts.This is true, but it's also kind of misleading. Yes, there are a lot of writers hustling to get published. Yes, only a small fraction of them succeed. But the hard truth is that of all those vast numbers of manuscripts, very few even approach publishability--10% or less. If your work is marketable, you're not in competition with every other writer out there--just with that 10%.

- Victoria

[Nateskate]

Now, see --- I disagree. I think that really fresh, clever books with dragons will ALWAYS sell, and thrillers/PI novels from newbie authors hit the stands every day. I wish I could tell you the secret, but I can't. If it helps though, I've only been at this writing thing since 1999, when I joined forces my co-author. Our first book came out in 2003, then one in 2004, one this year and three next year. So yes, Virginia (well, okay, stace001), it happens every day. Keep an eye on these forums, and nearly every week you'll find someone who found a real agent or was offered a new contract.

The one thing they have in common is perseverance. Every one of us kept pushing and pushing to become a better writer and searching for just the right agent and house to fit the book.

Good luck!

I agree. I think Formulas dumb down the industry, but tried and true formulas sell. And that's what some Genres bank on. Perhaps it is different from Genre to Genre. Some are hot, and have so many copycats they turn off agents. Yet, I think even then it depends on a hook and not saying, "I'm the next Mike Brown" or whoever is hot, and I've written the next version of their best-seller.

Since so many writers make similar boasts, no one takes them serious. A few years ago I met Norman Mahler's agent, and a conversation led to her asking me a question that floored me, "What's your book about?" Heck, I spent so much time writing it, and having no clue what I was going to be up against, I was dumbstruck and couldn't give a coherant answer. Perhaps in my magical thinking, agent spidey-senses would just start tingling when my book was ready, and they'd come knocking at my door and begging me to show them my book?

Now, the book wasn't ready yet, but I realized next time someone asked that question, I'd better have an answer that could fit in the size of a paragraph. And I took that very seriously. I think more people pass or fail the publishing grade due to a poorly written paragraph than a poorly written book.

[maestrowork]

My book is coming out in a few months.

Yes, it happens.

Write a good book. And market the hell out of it.... like Uncle Jim said, until Hell won't have it.

[MadScientistMatt]

Stacie,

Have you read Slushkiller (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html)? I know it's referenced a lot around here, but it is a pretty interesting look from an editor's point of view about the odds of getting published. The odds are definitely not like a roulette wheel where the ball has an equal chance of landing on each book.

[zcooper]

There are two kinds of people, those who think they can aand those who think they can't. Both are right.

[Julie Worth]

Do we have much of a chance? Really?

It doesn’t matter how original you are, or how beautiful your writing, breaking in is impossible. It just can’t be done. The best thing for you is to give up and seek employment at the nearest factory or fast food restaurant. Yes, do this now. Go!

<Cackles to herself at moving up one in the slushpile.>

[aspiringwriter]

Maybe there is hope for me after all...I am currently working on a PI novel now... :) I started one a few months ago and actually finished it, but I am working on a new one now...

[stace001]

Aaaahhhhhhh.:) I've had my little dummy spit, and you all pulled me from it pretty damn quickly. Most of the time I feel as you do. Keep pushing and I'll get there. My story is a good one. Could even be a great one. (i'm still doing a final edit, but comments so far are very good. And no, I don't mean from Mum who thinks its the greatest book ever written.;) ) And after my little kick up the pootootie, I'm back on track to pound those pavements (so to speak) and get my ms to as many people as i can. We all have our crappy days, and that was one of mine. Thanks to all who added a boot to my rear. I appreciate it.

[stace001]

Oh and Maestro and Cathy C, CONGRATULATIONS :Clap: on the new books. You've renewed my faith.

[reni]

My very first book was accepted by the very first publisher I submitted to.

Of course, then the company became defunct. But the point is, sometimes we just submit to the right place at the right time, and we luck out. Every published author I know looks at it that way. He or she beat the "odds" and got in somewhere.

There's no formula, no magic wand, no sure thing. Great books get passed over all the time. Crappy books get published all the time. Editors and agents have bad days, get pissy, and scribble "NO" on everything that comes past that day. It's all a game of chance, and you can't win if you stop playing.

[Christine N.]

Ok, me too. I got rejected by a bunch of agents, then sent to publishers directly and had lots of positive response. <shrug> I also think it depends on the right place at the right time. My publisher happened to be pretty new when I subbed. Not that that means one thing or another, except that their slush pile was much smaller than it is now.

I just subbed to an agent who left her agency and started her own, three weeks ago. She's looking to fill out her client list with what I happen to write. Lucky me. Even luckier if she sends me a contract (ohpleaseohpleaseohplease).

So.. do all the normal stuff - get Writer's market, cruise P&E. BUT keep your eyes and ears open. I found out about the agent through a children's writers board, from one of her clients. It wasn't announced anywhere, I don't think, and I never would have known otherwise.

Just make sure you have a great story. Yes, there's a dragon in my upcoming book, but it's not a main character. He's a nice guy - I like him.

[watcher]

If you've written a book that surprises and delights, a strong story strongly told, your odds are excellent.



Right on again, Jim!
I like that; I'm gonna put that on my wall.

[Diana Hignutt]

Recently, a succesful writer I know told me that it is a myth that every great book will be published. Lots of great books don't get published. It happens all the time. Maybe had the authors submitted to just one more place...

IN the end...I believe that if you never give up, you can never fail...

[Bufty]

Yes, there's a dragon in my upcoming book, but it's not a main character. He's a nice guy - I like him.

Whaddayaknow. I have a dragon, too. A wise-cracking, thieving, bluffing know-it-all confidence trickster and guess what - he's not the main protagonist either but pretty darned close and he's probably the character folks will attach to and remember if (Oooops - when) the novel gets published.

I wrote one of my query letters from his perspective and received a very kind rejection addressed to him.:)

I persevere.

[Torin]

If you keep trying, polishing, sending out to agents and publishers, your chances might be 1 in a billion (I'm exaggerating). If you DON'T try at all and let your manuscript sit in a drawer, your chances are zero (no exaggeration). 1 in a billion is better odds. :)

[azbikergirl]

I get the Publisher's Lunch in my emailbox, from Publisher's Marketplace, and about once a week, it lists some debut novels. Sometimes it's one or two, sometimes four or five. I find that encouraging. If you look for it, you can find a lot of discouraging info on being a novelist, and for some it may be enough to hang up the keyboard/pen. Some may not want to read those articles. I read them so I can go in with my eyes open to the issues in the world of publishing fiction, but I'll be damned if I let anyone's nay-saying stop me from pursuing my lifelong dream. <takes keyboard into teeth and gives it a good shake>

[victoriastrauss]

Lots of great books don't get published. It happens all the time.You know, I just don't really believe that. Some, certainly. But not lots (at least, if the writer is actively submitting). Subjectively, there are millions of great books. Objectively...not so many.

- Victoria

[Liam Jackson]

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, however, I'm reasonably sure of a few things.

1. Some unpublished members on this forum will sell a novel (or novels) in the coming year(s). These are the folk that possess some degree of talent, a good story, and the gall to actually submit. (and submit, and submit, and submit...)

2. Some unpublished members on this forum will NOT sell novels this year, next year, or any other year. These are the folk that possess some degree of talent, possess a good story and do NOT have to the gall to submit.(and submit, and submit, and submit...)

3. Some unpublished members on this forum will sell NOT sell a novel in the coming year(s) because they have no knack for writing or storytelling. (the latter being more important to a novelist, in my humble opinion.)

4. Some unpublished members on this forum will write amazing novels, submit one time, and strike out. The "strike out" will be because of poor timing, wrong target publisher, or more likely, a debilitating lack of confidence.(this one-strike-and-I'm-outta-here attitude has probably deprived me of some great reading material over the years.)

[maestrowork]

You know, I just don't really believe that. Some, certainly. But not lots (at least, if the writer is actively submitting). Subjectively, there are millions of great books. Objectively...not so many.

- Victoria

Great books don't get published because the authors don't care enough to push for it. I'd say, if you spend 5 years writing a great book, you should spend AT LEAST 5 years marketing it, until HELL won't have it. Most authors, however, give up too quickly and easily. They'd think, "Well, I just wrote a great book. Now everyone should just knock on my door and ask for it." That's a common mistake to think that way.

[MarkPettus]

I have no ill will toward any of you fine folks, but only three books need to be published this year to make me happy.

1. Transit Gloria, by Mark Pettus.

2. Knife of Dreams, by Robert Jordan.

3. Stories of Strength, An Anthology, including stories by Orson Scott Card and Mark Pettus (A lot of people are going to get this one for Christmas).

The second two will be on shelves in October. The odds are pretty good that even if I have to bribe a janitor to sneak the ms into someone's inbox, Transit Gloria is going to find a publisher...

[Diana Hignutt]

You know, I just don't really believe that. Some, certainly. But not lots (at least, if the writer is actively submitting). Subjectively, there are millions of great books. Objectively...not so many.

- Victoria

Victoria, that was my point. If you give up on actively submitting, you don't have a chance. I'm sure we've lost some great novels because the authors gave up on trying to get published.

diana

[stace001]

Thanks to everyone for the great words of encouragement. My faith is restored. There were a few quotes from people that I wrote down and stuck on the wall, just to give me a boot next time I fall into a well of self-pity and negativity. Thanks again.:Thumbs:

[blacbird]

I don't subscribe to the "if your book is good enough, it will get published" school of thought, mainly because that "logic" is so impenetrably circular. If your book gets published, obviously it is "good enough." If it doesn't (assuming you've submitted a fair amount), obviously it isn't.

Unless I missed it, no comment in this thread has touched upon the issue of subject matter. Some novels are simply not going to achieve publication, owing to topic. This may relate to issues of timing and trendiness, but it may be permanent, at least in the context of a writer's lifespan. I've been trying for some years to market a certain novel that has won legitimate prizes and money in several contests, and in the increasingly rare event of comments from agents rejecting it, it always gets some degree of praise, but numerous agents have also said explicitly that they don't believe they can sell it owing to its topic. I still think it's "good", by the subjective standard of writing and storytelling, and I have a standard of judgment based on the fact that I've written another novel that is truly horrible and not submittable anywhere, along with a lot of equally bad short fiction and novel starts. But for the "good" one I'm pretty much out of agency options for it at this point.

I have two other works in progress which I'm fairly pleased with so far, but both of which strike me as inevitably suffering the same fate, which dampens my enthusiasm for the "process". I'm becoming convinced that the only satisfactory writing I am capable of is simply too offbeat, too out-of-the-mainstream, too untrendy ever to break through the publication blockade. And I've tried my hand at more formulaic work, too. Bad bad bad stuff, those attempts, ugly clichéd crap, can't do that at all.

I also don't subscribe to the "every rejection gets you closer to acceptance" school of thought. Every rejection simply means one less possible place for acceptance.

bird

[maestrowork]

Wow, someone's glass is half-empty today.

[victoriastrauss]

I've been trying for some years to market a certain novel that has won legitimate prizes and money in several contests, and in the increasingly rare event of comments from agents rejecting it, it always gets some degree of praise, but numerous agents have also said explicitly that they don't believe they can sell it owing to its topic.What's the topic?

You mention agents. You do need an agent to approach the large publishing houses, but often not to approach smaller ones, which are willing to accept submissions direct from authors. Have you tried independent publishers? There are some (Soft Skull Press, (http://www.softskull.com/) for instance) that specialize in edgy, offbeat books.

- Victoria

[cwfgal]

I have to agree with blacbird...I don't think every "good enough" novel will be published. Even though there are some general standards by which one can measure the quality of writing, story, and such, this is still a highly subjective business and the success of any one ms is subject to the vagaries, whims, and whimsies of the people who see and read the works that are submitted. The specific tastes of any one agent or editor or house are bound to influence decisions, and then there are things like budgets and in-house limits on acquisitions.

What's more, the sheer flood of submissions coming in these days, thanks to word processing software that has made it ridiculously easy for anyone to produce a massive number of written pages, makes it far more likely that the good stuff will get buried in the heap, overlooked by weary readers, or simply tossed aside because some desperate agent or assistant can't bear to read another word and wants to clear the slush pile for the next fiftybazillion manuscripts that are coming in.

Is my glass half empty? Maybe. I prefer to think I'm merely realistic in my outlook and the only thing I acknowledge is that there is some water in the glass. To me, all these obstacles mean two things. First, my writing and my story have to be exemplary, as good and flawless as possible. Second, persistencce may well be the key to success. If I give up, I'm guaranteed to fail. But if I persist and keep trying despite the setbacks and obstacles, my chances of overcoming them increase. Even then, there are no guarantees.

Just my take on it.

Beth

[maestrowork]

1. Write a good book. Nothing else is going to help you if you write crap.... (the problem is, a lot of writers don't know that they've written crap...) Here's my quote again: every write must learn how to step back and objectively evalute his or her own work to see if it's indeed crap. If you did, rewrite or start over again.

2. Perseverence is the key. It may take years.

3. Get your ms. to the right agent or publisher. There are hundreds of them out there. No matter how bizarre or outrageous or off-beat your topic is, there is going to be someone who's interested. The trick is to find the right agent/publisher for your ms. It takes investment in terms of time and effort.

[Nateskate]

I think the axe swings both ways in this regards. I've seen published books that I can't imagine how they got published; but it's far worse to feel like you are on the other end. Obviously if someone here was published four or more times and now has trouble with finding an agent, it's not because they aren't writing stuff that is worthy of being published. They've proved they are. But in the long run, I think there are two issues, getting published and getting discovered and hitting the nitch.

[David McAfee]

But in the long run, I think there are two issues, getting published and getting discovered and hitting the nitch.


That's three issues... :P

[Aconite]

"Nitch"...did you mean to type "niche," or is there now another element I have to worry about? *whimper*

[Euan H.]

...I don't think every "good enough" novel will be published. ...
I think it depends on what 'good' means. 'Good' could mean 'very well-written'. Or it could also mean 'a book that people will buy.' While there's a lot of overlap between those categories, they're not the same thing.

[James D. Macdonald]

I too would like to know what the topic is. There are lots of small presses, some with very specialized lists.

Have you looked through the Midwest Book Review for small presses that may deal with your area?

[blacbird]

Wow, someone's glass is half-empty today.

Maestro,

Half empty? I'd be ecstatic if it were half empty. My track record suggests much less quantity.

Hey, you've succeeded in this game and I haven't, and I accept the fact that you're a better writer than I am. But I'd be interested in a more specific response to my take on those two clichés of the writing game I commented on. Exactly how do you define "good" work other than by its being accepted for publication? And exactly how does any rejection (barring the unlikely event of useful specific critical suggestions from the rejecter) get you closer to acceptance? I see these statements thrown out at us failed writers all the time, and they seem to me emptier than the atmosphere of the moon.

It may well be that I'm just totally horrible at this writing game. I'm close to being convinced of that. Which also calls into question the semi-cliché about persistence. After all, when something doesn't work, continuing to do the same thing over and over anyway is one definition of insanity.

bird

[cwfgal]

Which also calls into question the semi-cliché about persistence. After all, when something doesn't work, continuing to do the same thing over and over anyway is one definition of insanity.

bird

But you're not doing the same thing over and over unless you're submitting the same piece of work to the same people every time. Continuing to write and submit in the face of rejection won't guarantee you'll ever be published, but if you don't write and submit, it's guaranteed that you'll never be published.

Beth

[maestrowork]

Exactly how do you define "good" work other than by its being accepted for publication? And exactly how does any rejection (barring the unlikely event of useful specific critical suggestions from the rejecter) get you closer to acceptance?

I like what Uncle Jim said (okay I'm embellishing it a bit): "How do you know it's a good book? By the sound of rapidly turned pages..."

Obviously, not all books are rapid page-turners (literary, for example). My idea is that if your book draws your readers into a fictional world, make them believe the characters are real, and keep them there, then you have a good book. It's not about the elegance of prose, or the perfect use of grammar -- those are just tools. Good fiction is something that enthralls, entertains, and enlightens. Obviously, it depends on the readers. A romance novel reader probably regard something "good" differently than a sci-fi reader, for example. So, yes, it's subjective.

So how do you know your book is good? Use betas. Compare it with the best books (not the worst -- always aspire to do better) in your genre. As I said before, a writer must learn to step back and objectively evaluate if he has indeed written crap.

So to come back to the question -- no, I don't think merely getting "published" means the book is good. There are always common sense and standards. But as a friend of mine said, "Art is great, but if you can't sell it and let someone else appreciate it, it's pretty useless." A published work (such as mine) might not be a good one, but the odds that a never-be-published work is not good is higher.

Now how does one rejection gets you one step closer to acceptance? First, let's make the important assumption that the book is indeed good, worthy of publication and not crap. Now, it's just a process of elimination. A rejection simply means: your book is not a good match with that particular agent or publisher. So by eliminating that option, your odds of finding a "match" is increased. It's a simple math problem.

Given there are X agents/publishers in the world. You need only one acceptance. So your chances of getting published is 1/X. Now, if you get a rejection from 1 out of X agents/publishers, your chances of getting published is now 1/(X-1). It's a better odd.

[brinkett]

I like what Uncle Jim said (okay I'm embellishing it a bit): "How do you knowGiven there are X agents/publishers in the world. You need only one acceptance. So your chances of getting published is 1/X. Now, if you get a rejection from 1 out of X agents/publishers, your chances of getting published is now 1/(X-1). It's a better odd.
No, the odds of agent two accepting you aren't influenced by what happened with agent one. If what you've written is true, everyone would be guaranteed acceptance by the very last agent/publisher on their list, because the odds of acceptance would be 1.

Just about every recent interview I've read with agents and editors agrees that because of the glut of manuscripts, it's no longer true that every good manuscript will find a home. However, keep submitting. As others have mentioned, if you don't, you'll never get published.

[StoryG27]

It may well be that I'm just totally horrible at this writing game. I'm close to being convinced of that. Which also calls into question the semi-cliché about persistence. After all, when something doesn't work, continuing to do the same thing over and over anyway is one definition of insanity.
bird

Thomas A. Edison said, "Many of life's failures are men who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up."

Just something to think about.

[blacbird]

No, the odds of agent two accepting you aren't influenced by what happened with agent one.

Which is exactly what I meant, only said much better (which also says something about my writing, most likely).

bird

[Aconite]

Given there are X agents/publishers in the world. You need only one acceptance. So your chances of getting published is 1/X. Now, if you get a rejection from 1 out of X agents/publishers, your chances of getting published is now 1/(X-1). It's a better odd.
But that's like saying, "There are X manuscripts and Y publishers, so my odds of getting published are...." Not every manuscript has an equal chance of getting published, and not every publisher has an equal chance of being the right one. Or, more accurately, a right one, because more than one publisher can be right for a given manuscript. Eliminating unsuitable publishers does improve the odds that the remaining ones are suitable, but not that one will publish your book. Damn it.

[Julie Worth]

The biggest factor in the equation is that catch-22: your publishing credits. I had an agent reject a book just this week because I was unpublished. Because, he said, ‘it is so difficult to get a new writer broken in nowadays.” But once you do break in, it’s a different game.

[aka eraser]

bird, it's obvious by your posts that you have the tools of a writer - you're intelligent, introspective and wield words with aplomb. I don't know if you can tell a story but I'm guessing you can. Others have stressed persistence and I'd certainly echo that but I'd also stress researching publishers/agents 'til your brain bleeds. (From how you've described your book, I'd focus on smaller, independent pubs rather than agents right now.)

In the everything-is-fishing-and-fishing-is-everything department: folks often ask me where the best place is to fish. My stock answer is "Not your living room. You have to get on the water." And the more time you spend on the water, the more you'll learn and the better your chances of being successful.

You've got the tools. You've found the AW Cooler. You're on the water.

[Aconite]

I had an agent reject a book just this week because I was unpublished.
Julie, I'm confused. In another thread, you said you already had an agent.

[Julie Worth]

Julie, I'm confused. In another thread, you said you already had an agent.

I do, but she doesn't handle my primary genre. She would probably take it on, of course, but I'd rather have an agent with some knowledge and contacts.

[Aconite]

I do, but she doesn't handle my primary genre. She would probably take it on, of course, but I'd rather have an agent with some knowledge and contacts.
Ah. Thank you. (What a shame your agent doesn't know one to refer you to. Good luck with the search.)

[cwfgal]

The biggest factor in the equation is that catch-22: your publishing credits. I had an agent reject a book just this week because I was unpublished. Because, he said, ‘it is so difficult to get a new writer broken in nowadays.” But once you do break in, it’s a different game.


Not true. Most agents and editors out there are eagerly searching for the next fresh, new voice in fiction. And it's easier for someone who has never been published to break in than it is for someone who has been published but has a history of poor sales. That's one of the main reasons authors use pseudonyms, to dissociate themselves from their past publishing history and present themselves as a new author.

Don't buy into this fallacy and let it deter you. Good writing, good story, and persistence are the keys to success.

Beth

[Julie Worth]

That's one of the main reasons authors use pseudonyms, to dissociate themselves from their past publishing history and present themselves as a new author.


Never heard that one before!

Edit: After doing some research, I find that it has happened, though it seems not very common. And the people who've done it have usually had several failures in the marketplace. What is common is to use a pseudonym when changing genres.

[Mistook]

Blacbird,

What is getting rejected, the queries, or partials, or full manuscripts?

If you're getting as far as having the first three chapters read, then maybe your problem is simply with the way you've set up or presented the "subject matter". In other words, maybe your synopsis is giving them the wrong idea, and/or maybe the early chapters don't present this "subject matter" in a way that really befits the whole book... if that makes any sense.

I don't know what your subject matter is, but it seems to be there's always a way to make it sound intriguing... if it really is an intriguing story. I remember a thread a few weeks back where somebody said they were rejected because in her summary, she described the main character as suffering from depression.

On the thread she argued that the story wasn't depressing, and the MC had many engaging characteristics... and in fact the depression wasn't important at all, because he wasn't any more depressed than many other classic charachters.

Well, then why mention it to the agent?

[maestrowork]

But that's like saying, "There are X manuscripts and Y publishers, so my odds of getting published are...."

I was talking about "chances" or "odds." I never said "being published" is guaranteed. First you need to write a good book, then you need to find the right agent/publisher at the right time. But your odds do get better in a sort of mathematically sense, all things considered.

[LightShadow]

It's all about persistence. If you're good, you'll eventually get noticed, but you have to work at it. Piers Anthony took 12 years to get his first short story published, and another 8 to get a book in print. Now, he's huge. Sometimes it takes time and persistence. Heck, just read my signature about professionals and amateurs. That's my attitude.

[victoriastrauss]

Not true. Most agents and editors out there are eagerly searching for the next fresh, new voice in fiction. And it's easier for someone who has never been published to break in than it is for someone who has been published but has a history of poor sales.Yes! This is so true. I don't think breaking into the business is any harder now than it was in the past. But it is much, much harder to sustain a career.
That's one of the main reasons authors use pseudonyms, to dissociate themselves from their past publishing history and present themselves as a new author.I know a number of writers who've done this--some of them more than once. A couple have become pretty famous under their pseudonyms. It's more common than people imagine.

- Victoria

[Bufty]

There was a lady on another board I frequent and she complained ad infinitum about being rejected. She finally revealed she was an experimental writer and mailed an extract to me to read, presumably hoping I would sympathise with her plight.

I could read the individual words, but I hadn't a clue what she was trying to convey. Maybe it is publishable - I don't know - but if so it seems to me she would have to select prospective Agents or Publishers even more carefully than the rest of us.

[JackieG]

Don't write yet another YA novel featuring a dragon of any kind.

Don't write yet another crimer thriller, featuring a PI or cop with some neurosis , drink problem or debilatating emotional hang-up

Don't write about an early 30's professional woman, juggling a career, and motherhood in lightly whimsical way.

Do look for an area/genre that has been neglected for a while, isn't crowded with me-too writers, and find a refreshing new way to 'paint' the genre

I'd venture to say there IS no genre that's been neglected for a while. And what do you do when the story you want to write is one of the above? Do we ignore what we do best just to please a market we know little about?

I believe there are a lot of books about dragons because those who read them finish them, and want another one. The same goes for PI novels or a professional woman juggling a family. People read what they like, and so writers must write what they themselves like.

I'd rather be rejected a hundred times for a story that came out of my heart, than to be rejected a hundred times for a story I suspected I could have done better. Talk about being haunted by "what if".

[banjo]

If you've written a book that surprises and delights, a strong story strongly told, your odds are excellent.

If you haven't, your odds are abysmal.

That is very encouraging James.

[jen.nifer]

The biggest factor in the equation is that catch-22: your publishing credits. I had an agent reject a book just this week because I was unpublished. Because, he said, ‘it is so difficult to get a new writer broken in nowadays.” But once you do break in, it’s a different game.


I'm sorry, but I don't agree with this.

If the publisher had the required faith and confidence, it shouldn't be an issue.

[aruna]

If the publisher had the required faith and confidence, it shouldn't be an issue.

Faith and confidence... hmmm. If my publisher had those things would be different today for me. Sadly, they panic easily and can't see beyond today's bottom line.