Rejection / Sale ratio

[alexshvartsman]

For the short fiction authors out there, what is your rejection / sale ratio? As in, about how many rejection slips do you get for each story sold?

Also, how many different markets do you typically submit a story to before you shelve it?

I am just starting out, and starting to get rejections (7 total on 3 stories so far) and am curious to see how everyone else handles it.

Alex

[Jamesaritchie]

My rejection/sale ratio depends on how you look at it, and does tie in with number of rejections for a given story. Overall, I sell roughly ninety percent of the short stories I write, and always have. I'm not sure of the percentage, but the majority sell to the first market I submit them to, largely, I think, because I have a market firmly in mind when writing a story. A market I've studied thoroughly, and where I've read a LOT of issues.

But some of my biggest sales have come after a story was rejected from fourteen to twenty times. In each of these cases, however, I did have to change one or two small things to make the story a closer match to the market.

A prime example of this is a story I wrote called "The Parachute". It was a humorous tale of a teen protagonist basically getting himself into humorous trouble in small town Indiana, and contained several autobiographical incidents. It wouldn't sell anywhere, and gathered, oh, fourteen or fifteen rejections. Even the very low pay and no pay markets rejected it. Nearly every rejection was the same. "Great story, but just isn't right for us."

Then I chanced on guidelines for Sports Afield, an adult hunting/fishing magazine. I read some of their stories, loved them, but knew I needed a new element to make mine fit. I changed the first paragraph to make the teen want a rifle or a shotgun more than anything, but having parents who were afraid buying him one would just get him into trouble. I then told the story exactly as it was told before, but changed the ending to one where, after all the humorous trouble the boy gets into, the parents decide buying him said rifle or shotgun might keep him out of trouble,

Sports Afield bought the story, and paid me an even one thousand dollars for it, which was a LOT of money twenty years ago. That story taught me a serious lesson in why magazines buy particular short stories, and that fit is crucial.

I'm a firm believer in Heinlein's Rules, so I pretty much never shelve a short story. As long as I can find any potential market, I keep the story in circulation. It would be a pity to shelve a story when the next editor down the line might love it. I know one writer who made a major short story sale after the story gathered more than fifty rejections.

There have been very rare exceptions when I eventually gave up on a story after the number of rejections hit the ceiling. I threw away every trace of these stories. But almost all have bubbled back up in my mind, I rewrite them from scratch, and they're usually better the second time around.

You simply can't sell a story you shelve, and many rejections does not automatically mean a story isn't publishable. It often means no more than you haven't yet found a magazine where the fit is close enough to warrant a sale. Or a market where you catch the editor in the right mood. Or a market where the editor has an unusually large percentage of crap in his slush pile for three months running, and while your story isn't going to win any awards, it's better than all the other crap he's been reading.

My general attitude is that I have short stories I've sold, and short stories I'm going to sell somewhere, sometime, somehow, if only I keep them out there long enough.

[KyraDune]

I've never shelved a finished story. I figure so long as I keep trying they'll all find a home someday. My first published story was published by the first magazine I sent it to. My last one was rejected roughly twenty times before it was finally accepted. You never know.

[Stijn Hommes]

My rejection/sales ratio varies widely.
I have one story that gathered 4 rejections before it finally sold. I withdrew it from a market that didn't accept reprints and received another 3 rejections before the same story sold 2 more times.

In addition to that I have 6 rejections for 5 other stories (which I know know need some editing) and a contest entry that hit gold on its first outing (well, okay I made second place, so technically it hit silver).

So that is 4 sales against 14 rejections (including 1 withdrawal).

I never trunk a story. I might edit it or otherwise change things about it, but I will never give up trying to sell it.

[NicoleMD]

Duotrope says my sale percentage is 12%, but 10 of my 21 sales have happened on the third market or less. So far I've sold about half of the stories I've written. I have a handful of stories I've had trouble moving that I "temporarily" retire from time to time, mostly because they're messing up my percentages. :)

Nicole

[izanobu]

Hmm, I have no idea. I know it took about 48 rejections before I sold my first story (total rejections, I actually sold that story to the third market I sent it to).
I think my longest out/most rejected story so far has maybe 14 rejections? I've only been at this a year and a half, so my stats don't really count yet I'm guessing. But I think so far I'm at 3 sales to 150ish (maybe more?) rejections? I don't really count rejections, just file them away.

And yeah, I follow Heinlein's Rules, so I don't plan to trunk stories until I've truly exhausted all possible markets that meet my minimum per word rate requirement. As far as I can tell, it just takes time and persistence. :)

[astonwest]

I track my submissions, acceptances and rejections on a spreadsheet (also helps keep track of where any of my stories are submitted, to avoid issues with simultaneous submissions), and have between a 25 and 30% success rate.

Rejections, as everyone else has stated, vary. My first story sale went to the first place I submitted it to, after I'd previously submitted a different piece there and had it rejected. Other stories of mine have had multiple rejections, some have eventually sold and others haven't yet.

There are very few stories that I've shelved. Most haven't been due to a lack of acceptance as much as I read through the finished product and realize it doesn't work as a story...and I'd fix it, but doing so would take more time than I'm willing to spend, and usually I just end up starting a brand new one.

[alexshvartsman]

Thank you, everyone, for your responses. It certainly makes me feel better about my rejections so far, and eager to keep trying.

Alex Shvartsman

[Gray Rose]

Rejections to acceptances ratio is meaningless, I am sorry. If I were to send all my work to token-pay markets, I would have a much higher acceptance rate. I never submitted to token-pay places, but had a much better acceptance rate when I submitted to semi-pro markets in addition to pro. Now that I submit exclusively to pro markets, I am racking rejections, but that reflects my growth as a writer, rather than the other way around.

Some writers are brilliant and sell to pro markets from the get-go. Others have to work hard on their craft before they sell anything. I suggest you read Stephen King's "On Writing," and the part about the endless rejections - first form, then personal - then, finally, the first acceptance.... Perseverance and hard work pay off in this business.
Good luck!

[alexshvartsman]

Thanks, Rose! "On Writing" is actually in my reading queue; I should get to it by the end of this month.

Since my previous post I had my first story accepted for publication, over at Absent Willow Review. I feel pretty good now, and ready to face the upcoming rejections :)

Alex Shvartsman

[blacbird]

Infinity. Do the math.

[Chris P]

Gray Rose: Interesting point about the payment level of the market. Just thinking through it, that makes total sense.

I've (so far!) only published in non-paying or token-paying markets. In those cases, I usually get accepted anywhere from the first to the third attempt. Therefore, for semi-pro and pro my acceptance rate is 0%, one story on it's (I think) fifth attempt. As was said above, the input has been more personal from the lower-paying markets.

It's natural to ask when you should start submitting to semi-pro and pro markets, but I know there is no magic number and you should start high and work your way down on each story.

[NicoleMD]

Also, a market's acceptance ratio should be considered, since there are semi-pro (and a few token) markets out there that are tougher to crack than some pro markets.

I like to target markets that accept 5-10% since I figure that's still about "A" work percentage wise. But there's no reason not to target pro markets and work down, though it becomes a bit of a juggling act when you've got a dozen stories out there in submission land.

Nicole

[Timinator]

I was spoiled by my non-fiction writing. My first non-fiction piece was rejected once, then picked up by the second magazine that I submitted to. A very nice $800 payment for that one.

I'm starting all over by aiming at the fiction market. My first short, "Zegin's Infection" has been making the rounds. Six rejections so far. I'm assuming it's due to the fact that the story is not only science fiction, but has a very computer geeky slant to it. I'll keep shopping it. Never say, "Die!"

[Shadow_Ferret]

My rejection to acceptance ratio, I'd estimate it at about 100 rejections to 1 sale.
... I have a market firmly in mind when writing a story. A market I've studied thoroughly, and where I've read a LOT of issues.


I'm beginning to suspect I don't have what it takes. I've always heard the "study the market" and "read the magazine" to understand what kind of stories they want, but when I read several issues, I come away with the thought, "OK, they buy STORIES."

My analytical skills must be stunted or something.

[Jamesaritchie]

Rejections to acceptances ratio is meaningless, I am sorry. If I were to send all my work to token-pay markets, I would have a much higher acceptance rate. I never submitted to token-pay places, but had a much better acceptance rate when I submitted to semi-pro markets in addition to pro. Now that I submit exclusively to pro markets, I am racking rejections, but that reflects my growth as a writer, rather than the other way around.

Some writers are brilliant and sell to pro markets from the get-go. Others have to work hard on their craft before they sell anything. I suggest you read Stephen King's "On Writing," and the part about the endless rejections - first form, then personal - then, finally, the first acceptance.... Perseverance and hard work pay off in this business.
Good luck!

Sales ratio always has serious meaning. You just have to get the meaning from the markets you submit to. A high ration at small markets means you're writing is now good enough for small markets. A high ration in mid-size markets means your writing is now good enough for mid-size markets. A high ratio at top markets means you writing is now good enough for top markets.

A low ratio in any of these means, in one way or another, you're not quite there yet, be it the writing itself, or the particular stories you write. You don't get a break because the markets are larger. Either you can sell to these top markets, or you still have some growing to do.

I pretty much never submit to token payment magazines, and never have. And only rarely do I submit to semi-pro. Or even "pro", if you mean five cents per word markets.

Growth as a writer is reflected by sales, not by rejections. You know you've grown as a writer when your ratio of acceptances is as high with top markets as it was with small markets.

[Phaeal]

Shadow Ferret said:

I've always heard the "study the market" and "read the magazine" to understand what kind of stories they want, but when I read several issues, I come away with the thought, "OK, they buy STORIES."

:roll:

Most rejections on a story before pub: 18.
Least rejections on a story before pub: 3.
Average rejections on a story before pub: 10.

I always start with the top markets (for me, see SFWA's list of pro markets) and work my way down. That guarantees a story will see a fair number of rejections, but hey. I'm used to them by now. ;)

[Jamesaritchie]

My rejection to acceptance ratio, I'd estimate it at about 100 rejections to 1 sale.


I'm beginning to suspect I don't have what it takes. I've always heard the "study the market" and "read the magazine" to understand what kind of stories they want, but when I read several issues, I come away with the thought, "OK, they buy STORIES."

My analytical skills must be stunted or something.

Don't look for what the editor has bought, look for what you can write that he would like, but hasn't bought, almost surely because no one has sent him such a piece.

This is why I read the magazines. The last thing I want to do is send an editor a story like the ones he's already published, or like the ones most writers who read the magazines will be submitting.

The old saw, "Editors want something just like everything else, only different. has always been my focus.

I read a bunch of the magazines I want to sell to. At least twelve issues, and two or three times this many is better. Then I try to come up with a protagonist unlike any the editor has used. I look for a profession for that protagonist the editor hasn't used. I use a setting as far removed from the ones in the stories I read as possible. This tends to make the story itself different.

If it's a mystery magazine, the story will still be a mystery or crime story, and this gives it the "just like everything else" part of the equation that editors look for, but a different protagonist, different occupation, different setting, etc., the "only different" part of the equation that editors crave.

Different stories will emphasise this or that difference, and sometimes there are many differences, sometimes only a few, but all must stand out. I make sure the differences are described in detail, from the difference sin the protagonist, to having his work in an integral part of the story, to making sure the esoteric setting is well-painted.

The story still must be well-written, of course, but all things being equal, the "only different" stories get the nod over the well-written but similar stories an editor has already used, and that fills the average slush pile.

[Arch Stanton]

My rejection to acceptance ratio, I'd estimate it at about 100 rejections to 1 sale.


I'm beginning to suspect I don't have what it takes. I've always heard the "study the market" and "read the magazine" to understand what kind of stories they want, but when I read several issues, I come away with the thought, "OK, they buy STORIES."

My analytical skills must be stunted or something.


I've never targeted a market when writing a story. I only write what comes naturally, and if it fits the theme/style of a market, so be it. But I do know plenty of writers who do target markets and who have success. I'm just not made that way.

[Jamesaritchie]

I've never targeted a market when writing a story. I only write what comes naturally, and if it fits the theme/style of a market, so be it. But I do know plenty of writers who do target markets and who have success. I'm just not made that way.

I suspect everyone targets in one way or another. You have to read the magazines to know whether what you write fits the theme/style, reading the guidelines alone just doesn't cut it, and when you read the magazines, I strongly believe your mind will target it, even if it isn't on a conscious level.

[jaksen]

My first story was rejected. My second was accepted. Then several more were accepted.

I dug out the first story and re-submitted. It was accepted by those who had initially rejected it. (I didn't make any changes.)

My acceptance/rejection rate right now is about 90% accepted. Sometimes I get too far outside the genre I'm writing in and those are the ones that are usually rejected.

[blacbird]

rejection/sale = all/none. On a spreadsheet, I get a divide by zero error.

[Arch Stanton]

I suspect everyone targets in one way or another. You have to read the magazines to know whether what you write fits the theme/style, reading the guidelines alone just doesn't cut it, and when you read the magazines, I strongly believe your mind will target it, even if it isn't on a conscious level.

That's an interesting perspective.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I thought about it and my rejection ratio works like this:

The stories I have published, were accepted first time I sent them out.

The stories not published, have gone through dozens of rejections, rewrites, and so on.

The key to my success will be learning what differentiates the two. I have yet to make that connection.

[Robert E. Keller]

This rejection versus acceptance rate thing is completely pointless. There are far too many factors to take into account. I could boost my ratio way up by submitting to non-paying magazines. So what? You measure your success by the quality of the markets you sell to, not by how many acceptances you have. If you have 5000 acceptances by magazines that feature an 80% acceptance rate (check Duptrope, if you don't believe such magazines exist), that's not worth a single pro sale or probably even a single paying sale as far as building a reputation goes. Therefore, if a writer says to me, "Hey, I've got 20 acceptances and only 2 rejections" I brush it off as meaningless, unless they show me those are quality markets--in which case I would congratulate them. But simply throwing out a number is pointless and may confuse new writers who aim high and get a lot of rejections from the professional markets.

[Jamesaritchie]

This rejection versus acceptance rate thing is completely pointless. There are far too many factors to take into account. I could boost my ratio way up by submitting to non-paying magazines. So what? You measure your success by the quality of the markets you sell to, not by how many acceptances you have. If you have 5000 acceptances by magazines that feature an 80% acceptance rate (check Duptrope, if you don't believe such magazines exist), that's not worth a single pro sale or probably even a single paying sale as far as building a reputation goes. Therefore, if a writer says to me, "Hey, I've got 20 acceptances and only 2 rejections" I brush it off as meaningless, unless they show me those are quality markets--in which case I would congratulate them. But simply throwing out a number is pointless and may confuse new writers who aim high and get a lot of rejections from the professional markets.


Of course throwing out a number without listing the quality of the markets is meaningless, but who the heck is doing that?

The only way to measure success, or growth, is by the ratio, combined with the quality of the markets, along with how many stories you've actually sold.

Almost anyone can have lightning strike once, write just the right story that makes it into a top magazine, but darned few can do it time after time, and keep a high ratio going.

You measure success by the quality of magazines you sell to, and by how often you can manage to sell to the truly quality magazines. A lightning strike sale really is meaningless. Track record matters, and track record is measured by consistency, time, and numbers.

[Robert E. Keller]

James,

I don’t think a sale-to-rejection ratio really matters or should matter to most writers. If a science fiction writer makes 5 sales to Asimov’s magazine but has 300 rejections, that writer is very successful in short fiction. Period. And his/her reputation from those 5 sales will be all that matters, because no one will know or give a damn about the 300 rejections. Of course, a writer can learn from rejections, but putting it into some kind of sale-to-rejection ratio really holds no worthwhile data. Most writers, even the highly successful ones, have far more rejections than sales. One highly successful short fiction writer claims to have more than 10,000 rejections. Does that mean he's really NOT successful, even though he sells stories repeatedly to the top markets? No, it means he writes a lot and his work doesn't always fit in everywhere. It means he has to shuffle it around to find the right markets. It means some of his stories just don't sell, but he keeps submitting them because you never know.

[blacbird]

Almost anyone can have lightning strike once, write just the right story that makes it into a top magazine,

Exceptions exist.

[williemeikle]

When I started out I piled up the rejections, but nowadays I sell more than I get rejected, by a factor of around 2:1

I like to think this is because I'm getting better, but it's also due to picking my markets a -lot- more carefully, and targeting what I know editors will like.

I've also been submitting more to themed anthologies, where you know in advance broadly what they want. And my success ratio there this year is 10 sales, 1 rejection! (6 of those sales were to pro markets, and the others are all semi-pro)

So aiming high, and targeting to the right editors, is what is working for me.

[Robert E. Keller]

When I started out I piled up the rejections, but nowadays I sell more than I get rejected, by a factor of around 2:1

I like to think this is because I'm getting better, but it's also due to picking my markets a -lot- more carefully, and targeting what I know editors will like.

I've also been submitting more to themed anthologies, where you know in advance broadly what they want. And my success ratio there this year is 10 sales, 1 rejection! (6 of those sales were to pro markets, and the others are all semi-pro)

So aiming high, and targeting to the right editors, is what is working for me.

My point here is that for most writers the ratio is insignificant. I suppose once a writer reaches a level where he or she can say, "Look, most every pro market is buying my stuff and few are rejecting it" then that writer can definitely feel sure they're successful. But for many writers just breaking into the pros, keeping close track of such a ratio would be like mental poison. Positive thinking would go right out the window with the reminder that it's 10 (or more) rejections for every 1 sale. Who wants to keep track of hard data on that? :) If you ask me, better to forget that stuff and concentrate on figuring out to make quality sales.

[jaksen]

Originally Posted by Robert E. Keller
This rejection versus acceptance rate thing is completely pointless. There are far too many factors to take into account. I could boost my ratio way up by submitting to non-paying magazines. So what? You measure your success by the quality of the markets you sell to, not by how many acceptances you have. If you have 5000 acceptances by magazines that feature an 80% acceptance rate (check Duptrope, if you don't believe such magazines exist), that's not worth a single pro sale or probably even a single paying sale as far as building a reputation goes. Therefore, if a writer says to me, "Hey, I've got 20 acceptances and only 2 rejections" I brush it off as meaningless, unless they show me those are quality markets--in which case I would congratulate them. But simply throwing out a number is pointless and may confuse new writers who aim high and get a lot of rejections from the professional markets.

I agree with you. In my case, I should have been more specific.

I have a 90% acceptance with pro-paying markets. I never submitted to free or token payment markets, as when I started writing I really didn't know they existed. I have sold 25 short stories; three were later reprinted elsewhere.

(I write mystery short fiction, and the stories that got rejected were mysteries (in my mind) but veered too much into scif-fi or horror for my publisher to purchase them.)

[Robert E. Keller]

Originally Posted by Robert E. Keller


I agree with you. In my case, I should have been more specific.

I have a 90% acceptance with pro-paying markets. I never submitted to free or token payment markets, as when I started writing I really didn't know they existed. I have sold 25 short stories; three were later reprinted elsewhere.

(I write mystery short fiction, and the stories that got rejected were mysteries (in my mind) but veered too much into scif-fi or horror for my publisher to purchase them.)

Congrats! Your overall (professional) acceptance rate is much higher than that of most writers, including Stephen King if you count his early days. Where can I find links to your work?

[jaksen]

My writing is all in print magazines and in two 'best of' anthologies. I don't have anything posted on the web. I write for AHMM and EQMM. My last short story published was the cover story on AHMM in 2009 (July/August issue.)

I'd give up the relatively high acceptance rate for a bit more of Stephen King's success.

I knew very little about the publishing end of writing when I started. I was naive, but it paid off. (Although in hindsight I wish I had more knowledge, and the use of a site like this one.)

[MatthewWuertz]

The important thing is that you're submitting. Keep doing so.

[Kate Thornton]

I write for all venues - wherever I think the story will fit, anyway. While I keep submission records, I don't really keep stats. Mostly I write for specific venues and place work either in print, print anthology or online.

If I write something I think is really good - and it is rejected by the venue I had in mind - I send it to another place, sometimes doing a bit of minor surgery if needed. I ALWAYS re-read it to see if I have mistaken chicken shit for chicken salad, though. It happens.

[johnnysannie]

Overall, I would say these days my ratio of sales to rejection is about 3:1 which would average out around a 75% acceptance ratio. I generally don't submit to anything that doesn't pay at least semi-pro rates and many of my sales are pro rates.

I've sold to several themed anthologies this year, having a higher success rate with that, finding it lucrative - at least for me - to write for a specific market or anthology.

But it isn't luck - I've spent decades writing and over that time I have learned to know the markets, to hone my writing to have the best edge I can produce, and where to submit.

Where does indeed matter but so does a higher sales over rejection ratio.

[Robert E. Keller]

I'm waiting for my next acceptance, and then I'll start keeping track of my ratio from there. At that point, it will be a 100% acceptance rate versus a 0% rejection rate, and then I'll go celebrate my amazing ratio with a beer. :)

Okay, here a link to a related Scalzi topic that offers some interesting views: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2006/12/28/professional-rejection/