The Short Story is Dead

[PeeDee]

...or is it?

Whenever I'm wandering around the internet reading about writing and the various stuff related, one of the most common comments I find is the offhand remark that the short story is a dying art form, the short story market is fading fast, and that the novel is the way to go.

This tends to stick in my mind, since I started as a short story writer, I learned my trade and its ropes in the short story, and I still find the short story and novella to be the most comfortable lengths (for me.) If anyone, I think I've always agreed with Ray Bradbury and Harlan Ellison, if you see what I mean.

I can obviously see that it's not really possible to live on writing just short stories alone, if you intend to subsist as a writer.

I'm curious what everyone thinks.

Is the short story market fading? Or is it just going through a dry spell?

Are short stories a dying art form, giving away to the novel and the movie?

And a sheerly hypothetical question, which I'm curious about is, what would happen if Ray Bradbury and/or Harlan Ellison were just starting out in today's writing market?

[Jamesaritchie]

...or is it?

Whenever I'm wandering around the internet reading about writing and the various stuff related, one of the most common comments I find is the offhand remark that the short story is a dying art form, the short story market is fading fast, and that the novel is the way to go.

This tends to stick in my mind, since I started as a short story writer, I learned my trade and its ropes in the short story, and I still find the short story and novella to be the most comfortable lengths (for me.) If anyone, I think I've always agreed with Ray Bradbury and Harlan Ellison, if you see what I mean.

I can obviously see that it's not really possible to live on writing just short stories alone, if you intend to subsist as a writer.

I'm curious what everyone thinks.

Is the short story market fading? Or is it just going through a dry spell?

Are short stories a dying art form, giving away to the novel and the movie?

And a sheerly hypothetical question, which I'm curious about is, what would happen if Ray Bradbury and/or Harlan Ellison were just starting out in today's writing market?

There aren't nearly as many short story markets as there once were, but the short story has made a remarkable come back from just a few years ago. I wouldn't worry about it too much. About thirty years ago, the novel was also proclaimed as dead, and there are more novels published now than ever.

And even in Bradbury and Ellison's day, short story markets came and went on a daily basis.

[blargh]

It's definitely a very, very difficult market to break into, and I think it's all but impossible for any but a very select few to make a decent living at it, but I don't think the short story is dead. It seems to be a shrinking market, and more competitive than ever, but it's still there. As for Bradbury and Ellison--well, if they were starting out today and writing what they wrote then, they'd be published. Great writing will find an audience, and they're both acknowledged masters of the craft--two of the greatest ever. If anybody could make a living writing shorts today, it'd be these two.

[vegiboy]

It seems possible that one day the short story will become popular again, especially given society's current short attention span. I think about how memoirs are hot right now...the same could happen for stories. Perhaps we need a 'John Grisham' to come along and popularize short fiction.

I remember a few summers back the Buffalo News published a short story that appeared once per week over several weeks. I was pleasantly surprised by that idea.

I think short stories are similar to poetry in that it's tougher to digest and people have less exposure to it, thereby making it less popular than it could be. I might not enjoy short ficition as much as I do if I hadn't taken courses for it in college.

J

[Mike Coombes]

I've been hearing that short stories are dead for as long as I've been writing them.

The quality end of the market is small, and it's impossible to make a living doing nothing else, but it's still there.

It's worth noting that the majority of novellists have to keep a day job, or supplement their royalties writing reviews, articles etc.

I remember reading that Terry Pratchett had had three or four novels published before he felt secure enough to write full time.

Anybody who writes to get rich should never be short of storylines, because they're already living in fantasyland

[PeeDee]

Anybody who writes to get rich should never be short of storylines, because they're already living in fantasyland

I want a t-shirt that says that.

I keep hearing that the short story is dead, and then I nod and smile and go right back to...writing my short story.

I agree that you probably couldn't live on it anymore. I mean, it might be possible, but it would be a mind-boggling amount of work.

Personally, I love books of short story collections. Whether it's a multi-author collection like Sweeney's, or just an author collection (Neil Gaiman's "Smoke and Mirrors" is delightful. Likewise, Stephen King's "Everything's Eventual" or "Four Past Midnight"

But I think those are probably done for enjoyment, not to pay the bills that the novels are, in fact, paying.

I think if you want to write to get rich, you're wantingthe wrong thing. For example, i'd love to make enough writing that I could live off writing and support my family...but I'm less excited at the prospect of being rich and more excited at the prospect of having a LOT more time to write more stuff.

[Jamesaritchie]

I want a t-shirt that says that.

I keep hearing that the short story is dead, and then I nod and smile and go right back to...writing my short story.

I agree that you probably couldn't live on it anymore. I mean, it might be possible, but it would be a mind-boggling amount of work.

Personally, I love books of short story collections. Whether it's a multi-author collection like Sweeney's, or just an author collection (Neil Gaiman's "Smoke and Mirrors" is delightful. Likewise, Stephen King's "Everything's Eventual" or "Four Past Midnight"

But I think those are probably done for enjoyment, not to pay the bills that the novels are, in fact, paying.

I think if you want to write to get rich, you're wantingthe wrong thing. For example, i'd love to make enough writing that I could live off writing and support my family...but I'm less excited at the prospect of being rich and more excited at the prospect of having a LOT more time to write more stuff.

Other than some literary writers back in a the forties, when The Saturday Evening Post sometimes paid 25K for a short story, there's never been a time whan any but the chosen few could really earn a living writing short stories.

I doubt any of teh science fiction writers ever did. Even with short stories and novels combined, few of the classic SF writers earned a real living from their writing. Nearly all had to supplement their income with day jobs, or with other forms of writing such as nonfiction and/or screenplays. Even Bradbury and Ellison generally earned their living with screenplays and the like.

For most writers such as Gaimon and King, writing the short story is a matter of pleasure, and a matter of advertising. Having short stories published can draw quite a few fans to your novels, and that's always a good thing.

The last writer I remember who was said to really earn a living from writing short stories was Paul Darcy Boles, a prolific literary writer.

I think it might still be possible to support a family from short stories, if you're good, prolific, and write in the right areas. But you wouldn't be taking regular vacations to exotic locales.

Several of the markets I write for pay anywhere from $750-$2,000, and if I wrote only short stories, and put in lots of time at it, I'm pretty sure I could make from 25-35K a year from short fiction without hitting any of the really big markets such as The New Yorker. If I had to, I could probably keep my family floating on this kind of money, even if not in lavish style.

That's not a fortune, but it's close to what the average worker makes in this country, and a lot of families live on a good deal less. I know quite a few familes where both spouses work, and they still bring in no more than 20K together.

So I won't say it's impossible to earn a living of some sort from writing short stories, but you would have to be able to hit good markets every month, and you would have to be a pretty prolific writer.

[arrowqueen]

I write for the women's magazine market in the UK and Australia. Even that's shrinking and being replaced by the same reality crap that's taking over TV.

I used to sell at least 2 every month to 'Chat', plus I got a couple of decent commissions a year for longer ones for their 'Juicy Fiction' mag. Now it's all: 'My friend/sister/mother ran off with my husband/boyfriend/dog.'

The worst ones are those where a crime has been involved. ('My friend/sister/mother ran off with my husband/boyfriend/dog - so I burnt their house down/trashed their car/ate their goldfish.') and, at the end of the article, it says 'So-and-so has not been paid for this story.'

My God. I'll bet the mags just love those people. So desperate for their 15 minutes of fame they'll confess all just to see their names in print. Hell mend the lot of them!

Oops. Got a bit carried away there.

I've stopped ranting now. You can out from behind the couch.

Honest.

[TheIT]

I write for the women's magazine market in the UK and Australia. Even that's shrinking and being replaced by the same reality crap that's taking over TV.

I used to sell at least 2 every month to 'Chat', plus I got a couple of decent commissions a year for longer ones for their 'Juicy Fiction' mag. Now it's all: 'My friend/sister/mother ran off with my husband/boyfriend/dog.'



Sorry, I couldn't resist interrupting your regularly scheduled thread with a joke:

What happens when you play a country/western song backwards?



You get your house back, your wife back, your dog back, your job back, etc.

Back to our thread already in progress...

I certainly hope short stories aren't dead. I'm trying to write some.

[PeeDee]

Nah, they're not dead. I suspect even if the print magazine market for short stories completely died out (which I strongly suspect will not happen), then the internet would suddenly step into and fill that niche.

That said, there are still a fair number of magazines that do short stories. I mean, if you really hunt and lookor a national list, you'll still get a pretty long list.

Wouldn't it be deleriously wonderful to go into Barnes & NOble and see only one rack of magazines that offer to "Sex up your abs in just 10 minutes!" and eight other racks full of story magazines of all make, size, shape, color, and bizarre content?

[Maryn]

I don't think the short story on the whole is quite dead, but the number of markets for mystery/suspense short stories has shrunk dramatically since I began writing them. Essentially, if neither of the big boys bites, I'll be lucky to make a half-penny a word, which makes it hardly worth submitting.

Maryn

[Mike Coombes]

You do it for the money? How quaint!

[AdamH]

The short story market will never die. As long as there's writers to write them, there'll be places to publish them (whether that being self published on a blog, or an anthology of some kind). The only item really to debate is whether you'll get paid for it or not.

[Mike Coombes]

The other item to debate is will they ever get read?

If all we all end up doing (and I'm not saying it's going that way) is self publishing and blogs... who's left to read?

The short fiction market is already incest-ridden; I would estimate that 95% of subscriptions are bought by writers. Maybe short fiction will only go out of fashion when the circle-jerk does?

[Jamesaritchie]

The other item to debate is will they ever get read?

If all we all end up doing (and I'm not saying it's going that way) is self publishing and blogs... who's left to read?

The short fiction market is already incest-ridden; I would estimate that 95% of subscriptions are bought by writers. Maybe short fiction will only go out of fashion when the circle-jerk does?

This may be true with some literary magazines, but it isn't true in any way of more mainstream short stories.

But even if it were true, so what? Who the heck cares whatthe audience is, as long as the audience is there. Writers ought to be buying the subscriptions. A writer who doesn't like to read isn't a writer.

And there are fifteen million wannabe writers in this country alone. The sad thing is that not nearly enough writers are buying subscriptions, and that's a sin against nature.

[Mike Coombes]

True, but it doesn't stop it being a circle-jerk. Can you imagine how the movie business would be if the only people going to see them were wannabe script writers?

[johnnysannie]

Maybe that's why the summer movie box office rate is down????

(tongue in cheek, y'all, tongue in cheek)

[PeeDee]

Well, if the saying holds true, and everybody's got a book them, then that makes everybody a wannabe author, and therefore, subscription rates should be.... ;)

I have a book called The Illustrated History of Sci-Fi in the 20th Century(it has a companion volume on fantasy). Mostly, it's a history of the digests and magazines and pulps that were alive and going throughout the century. It's a fascinating read, and it was originally what gave birth to my original question. I recommend it for anyone looking for a good read, some history, and some pretty pictures.

As an aside, I don't think being a writer has anything particularly to do with your reading. If your subscription doesn't count because you're a writer, I find it a bit silly. It's like being a musician who doesn't buy CDs, or a painter who doesn't buy pictures. This is not the first time I've heard this opinion, and I never cared for it. I proudly showed off my library to a couple of people, once upon a time, and they remarked, "Very nice, but...well...you are a writer, after all."

I thought it an odd comment. I still do.

[Jamesaritchie]

True, but it doesn't stop it being a circle-jerk. Can you imagine how the movie business would be if the only people going to see them were wannabe script writers?

I don't think the comparison is apt, but even if it were, the movie business isn't as different as you think. Go to California, and even the cab drivers and waiters have movie scripts sticking out of their back pockets.

The only real difference is that anyone can watch a movie. Small children, people with the intellect of potted plants, you name it. But darned near anyone who watches movies that actually has a brain does, at some point or another, think about writing one.

I don't care what the activity is, most who participate in any way would like to be doing rather than viewing, if they could. With writing, many think they can, so they try.

I think your comparison is both silly and insulting. It would be nice if a much wider range of the public enjoyed reading short stories, but if that ever happens, most of them will also try their hand at writing. If everyone in teh world starts reading short stories, darned near all of them will have the desire to write them.

The problem, if there is one, is simply that too many people these days float through life witout really doing anything. They're passive, anti-intellectual, and content with being this way.

There's nothing wrong with writers being the ones who read short stories, and your comparison makes it sound as if this is somehow perverted, when in fact it's both human nature, and a thing of great beauty. There's neither need nor sense in trying to separate readers from writers. A reader is not suddenly part of a "circle-jerk" because he wants to be a writer. He's still a reader, still a person with sense enough to understand that the short story is valuable.

[mesh138]

The short story market is dead. No one cares about it anymore.

On the other hand, I am relatively young and have no college education. I got into short stories on my own and read them a lot. I have a friend who is the same way. Things like this go in trends. Maybe it's not in now. Give it a few years. Modern America is a little too lazy to read short stories in magazines, but maybe we'll get smarter after this current war is over.

[Pariah]

This is my first post, so please bear with me whilst I get up to speed with the rest of the membership.

The short story isn't dead, nor do I think we will ever see it pass from this world entirely.

I've spoken to a lot of people over the last decade on the subject of short fiction, and most of them say that the reason they don't read more is because their daily lives are so hectic. Those who do take the time to read prefer short stories because a lot of them can be read during coffee breaks, trips to/from work/school, and any other limited idle time that falls their way.

Sadly, a lot of authors are going where the money is. They focus on trying to break into novels. While I certainly can't fault my fellow wordsmiths for this (often) necessary course of action, the exclusion of the short story has discouraged a great many people from reading who simply don't have the time to dedicate to even a modest 300-400 page novel.

To compound this problem, the publishing companies often limit their release of short fiction because there isn't enough of a profit margin to justify such ventures, unless the author(s) are big names in the literary field (in which case the short story collections are deemed a form of profitable advertisment for the authors 'real' books).

Bottom line, too many people are concerned about the bottom line. Maintaining healthy profits are, of course, necessary for any business to survive. But by limiting the amount of short fiction released into the mainstream, publishers are also excluding themselves from a significant group of potential book buyers. A healthy middle ground needs to be found here.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject. Thanks for reading!

[PeeDee]

Nah, I don't think they're dead. Just quiet. Underground, if you will. I would very much love to see a resurgence of the old pulps (that is to say, having a good number of short story magazines to choose from, full of writers making a living doing it). I doubt it will happen any time soon. But if wishes were horses...

[Mike Coombes]

Nah, I don't think they're dead. Just quiet. Underground, if you will. I would very much love to see a resurgence of the old pulps (that is to say, having a good number of short story magazines to choose from, full of writers making a living doing it). I doubt it will happen any time soon. But if wishes were horses...

If I go into my local Borders I can usually find at least 10. But no horses.

[PeeDee]

Yeah, I can find about the same number at my B&N too. Out of the ten, on any given day, there's usually about five that I'll pick up or want to pick up.

Could it be (and I am theorizing here) that there is a readership ready and waiting for short story magazines, only most of the "big name" (silly term) authors have decided that it doesn't pay enough and have left the magazines behind for novels? And by therefore doing this, it has hurt the story market to the point where, in fact, it doesn't pay enough?

(I know the history of the market and how little it frequently paid, but I'm talking in recent terms purely, not the historical trends)

[brokenfingers]

Hmmmm.... just some thoughts here but I think part of the blame for the decline in short stories lies with editors and writers and the types of stories that were being put out there in the last twenty or so years.

For me at least there seemed to be a period, basically the late 70's, the 80's and most of the 90's, where the majority of short stories I read were just not enjoyable. I can't count the number of times I would pick up a magazine and start reading a short story and just couldn't get into it or by the end I was left feeling: Huh?

And I found this even with genre mags. They just weren't putting out stories I liked.

So obviously my interest in them declined over time and I stayed with the more reliable books and movies.

It just seemed to me like instead of writing what regular people wanted to read (like the majority of books and movies do) most short story mags were geared towards writers, literati or those who liked "non-traditional" stories - which is fine, I suppose, but guess what: if you gear your magazine's stories towards only a small portion of the reading population then you're not going to have as many people read them. They'll just go buy a book or see a movie instead.

It's only in the last few years that I've begun reading more and more short stories in print that are actually enjoyable and tell a story and make a point or that I don't walk away from thinking: why did I just waste x minutes reading that? Or: what the hell was that about?

Another problem contributing to the decline of the short story? The internet. Why is a person going to buy a magazine with short stories when there are literally millions of them out there for free? And even if the overall quality of them might not be so good, they're still free and you can browse them at your leisure until you find a good one that you enjoy. Unlike a magazine that may not even have a story that you wind up liking but you've still paid for it.

Plus, nowadays there are thousands of e-zine sites where writers are literally giving away their work and it isn't really very hard to find one that might suit your taste and temperament or find one that has a pretty steady stream of good content - for free!

So I say: The short story is not dead per se, but it's profitability and the traditional magazine venues displaying it are definitely changing.

[PeeDee]

If you hunt around on the 'net, you'll find that Harlan Ellison has a great deal to say on basically the point you've just made (writers giving away stuff, quality going downhill, etc.)

I don't know if anyone here if familiar with Scott McCloud, the cartoonist who's been pushing the micropayment concept on the internet for ages now. I honestly think, if done properly, one could do something very much like that with short stories. DOne well, it's feasible.

But as always, it's the quality of the writing. There is a market for very good writing, no matter if it's a short story, novel, or haiku.