You are the expert.

[amused]

I'm coming at this from a spec screenplay background. I don't have the conversions to novel format up yet, they're coming. So maybe I'm full of beans.

But if you go to [reference deleted at webmaster's request--JDM] [URL redacted] which is the site run by [names deleted at webmaster's request--JDM], you will find some good advice for any writer. They wrote some essays, one of which is called [title deleted at webmaster's request--JDM]*

[redacted to remove the quotation from [site deleted at webmaster's request--JDM]; their terms of service forbid quotations, and they have asked us not to quote them]

If you know what you are doing then you don't have to pass through the gatekeeper's gates. I'm not convinced at all that the paid market for editors and agents and whatnot is really justified.

Mods - Please don't move my threads out of the E-Publishing forum. This is the only place I want them to be.

[Medievalist]

If you know what you are doing then you don't have to pass through the gatekeeper's gates. I'm not convinced at all that the paid market for editors and agents and whatnot is really justified.

Super.

You go right ahead and self-publish. It's the perfect solution.

Mods - Please don't move my threads out of the E-Publishing forum. This is the only place I want them to be.

Tell you what, while you're publishing your own ebooks, set up your own writing forum, and then you can tell the mods what to do.

You don't get to do that here.

[amused]

:cry:

[mscelina]

If you know what you are doing then you don't have to pass through the gatekeeper's gates. I'm not convinced at all that the paid market for editors and agents and whatnot is really justified.

Mods - Please don't move my threads out of the E-Publishing forum. This is the only place I want them to be.

Horsepookey. I see enough manuscripts every day that I can guarantee you that editors and agents are completely justified.

And I'll go further and add that trying to format for e-publishing is NOT easy, nor does it automatically qualify you as an expert of any way, shape, mean or form. It's damned difficult, and one little bloop can mess up your book. In the end, it all depends on what you really want to do. If you want to self-publish and are prepared for the anonymity of your book in a swirling mass of unedited, incorrectly formatted, poorly written pap then go right ahead.

Otherwise, I'd advise going through those 'unjustified' editors so you can turn out a story that at least has a shot of garnering notice. I work with multiple authors at all levels, and every single one of them requires an editor. Including me.

[veinglory]

How many self-published ebooks have you read? I am into three figures. One thing I learned from this experience is the value of editing and proofreading. In fact just this morning I sent in half the fee to the proofreader who is going over my first self-published effort. Money well spent.

[amused]

I've read a few ebooks.

More to the point, I was a reader for the Austin Heart of Film screenplay competition for several years. I know what crap looks like. I've read hundreds of scripts. I know very quickly if the writer is not in charge of the story. If you need an editor (or worse, an 'agent') to tell you how to write, then you should not be writing.

[CaoPaux]

Mods - Please don't move my threads out of the E-Publishing forum. This is the only place I want them to be.If you can explain how this thread is specific to e-publishing, it will remain. Otherwise, it will join all the other rails against gatekeepers in the self-publishing forum.

[Medievalist]

I've read a few ebooks.

And you're pontificating in a particularly offensive and idiotic way to people who make their living from ebooks and other published works.

My first ebook was published in 1989. I've worked and sold hundreds of ebook titles.

You've not even sold yet, and you've managed to insult a fair number of your potential colleagues.

More to the point, I was a reader for the Austin Heart of Film screenplay competition for several years. I know what crap looks like. I've read hundreds of scripts. I know very quickly if the writer is not in charge of the story. If you need an editor (or worse, an 'agent') to tell you how to write, then you should not be writing.

You have no idea what editors or agents do.

But you are incredibly arrogant.

[Birol]

I've read a few ebooks.

More to the point, I was a reader for the Austin Heart of Film screenplay competition for several years. I know what crap looks like. I've read hundreds of scripts. I know very quickly if the writer is not in charge of the story. If you need an editor (or worse, an 'agent') to tell you how to write, then you should not be writing.

E-books published by e-publishers are edited by editors. Editing has nothing to do with telling a writer how to write.

[amused]

If you can explain how this thread is specific to e-publishing, it will remain. Otherwise, it will join all the other rails against gatekeepers in the self-publishing forum.

Look at the ads that run on the front page. You're part of the racket. Still selling hope that someday a writer will find fame and fortune publishing a book in print on paper.

Not.

Going.

To.

Happen.

Any discussion outside of epublishing on this forum is mostly dealing with dead issues and old excuses.

Epublishing erases all excuses.

I'd like to focus on epublishing without any of the baggage from the past.

So keep my fucking posts where I put them.

[AW Admin]

Any discussion outside of epublishing on this forum is mostly dealing with dead issues and old excuses.

Epublishing erases all excuses.

I'd like to focus on epublishing without any of the baggage from the past.

So keep my fucking posts where I put them.

You are being banned as a total asshat.

Seriously, dude, people like you are ruining epublishing for people who have a clue. You're creating a clique of incompetents.

[Medievalist]

Look at the ads that run on the front page. You're part of the racket. Still selling hope that someday a writer will find fame and fortune publishing a book in print on paper.

Look, those "ads"? The books on the top?

Those are by *members at AW*

I'm one of them.

I have two agents (one for software, one for books). I make my living writing.

I've been an editor, and I still want to be edited.

I have a pretty substantial background in licensing, and rights acquisitions, and ebook contracts, because I worked for the pioneer ebook publisher.

I want an agent, too.

I expect ebooks to be professionally edited, and typeset for the screen.

People like you? Who don't want editors, and scorn agents?

We call what you do shovelware.

Think about it.

I'd like to focus on epublishing without any of the baggage from the past.

So keep my fucking posts where I put them.

Go start your own board sweetie. You don't own this one.

[veinglory]

I've read a few ebooks.

Interesting how dogmatic one can be about an industry when having consumed very little of the product in question and presumably published none.

[CaoPaux]

:rolleyes:

And that's all I'll say about that.

[roseangel]

:heart:I love you people, everyone here except amused should receive rum balls, chocolate chip cookies and mead.:Hug2:

(I really want to make some cookies, but I'm broke and have no oven.:cry:)

[efkelley]

AMUSEDingly enough (har, I'm so funny!), people like our sideshow here are the ones lending credence to the garbage dilution theory of why eBooks will never outsell print.

If you don't think you need an editor, then you probably do.

If you aren't trying to sell your eBooks in the print world, then you probably should.

In truth, I feel the whole 'gatekeeper' concept is misdirected. Publishers *want* to sell books. They really want a huge inventory with as many titles as they can pack on. The trouble is that they're on a budget, just like everyone else. They only have X number of titles each year to be taken up by Y number of authors. And Y invariably exceeds X.

The authors being turned away aren't entirely new folks trying to get into print. Editors have to turn down *good* books from new and returning authors allike. They have to make judgment calls based on dozens of factors like marketability, trends, and sales records, because shelf space is incredibly valuable.

So, gatekeeper? No. There are plenty of unpublished books out there that would sell just fine, but these are books that have been written by people that have learned their craft. They've taken the classes, heeded their critics, and practiced their art.

Now, eBooks fix a lot of these issues. Shelf space is virtual. Inventory fills up hard drives, not warehouses, and books can be distributed entirely on-demand with no human interaction. Risk is minimized, and a book need never go out of print. Someone that finds your work twenty years from now can instantly access your entire inventory. And they can buy new copies. No need to head to the used book store which you'll never see a dime from.

Good books earn positive reviews, positive ratings, more upselling, more link visibility (all done automatically through database programming). But therein lies the key: Good books earn these things. Bad books get negative reviews and poor ratings. Their ranking drops, the computer doesn't upsell them, and their links vanish. Eventually, the only way to find the book is to type in the author's name or the title. In short, the ePublishing author shares the same risk that print publishers run every day.

That's the part that a lot of these articles and hugely vocal proponents gloss over. Joe Konrath and Dean Wesley Smith and Cory Doctorow make no bones about that. They're right up-front with it, and I applaud their candid tone. But the articles just slide right past the responsibilities a self-publishing author has to undertake. The cover is yours to mess up. The editing is yours to botch. The marketing is yours to ignore. Simply, you yourself can negate all the benefits that digital format has to offer, and you can do it by buying your own press, not listening to criticism, and thinking this route is any kind of shortcut around learning your job.

Hmm and that post is about 70% longer than I intended. I'll just hop off this soapbox now and stop waxing this cat.

[MartinD]

You can be banned for being a total asshat?

My AW future looks grim.

[Birol]

NOTE: True asshats rarely think they're asshats.

[Medievalist]

You can be banned for being a total asshat?

My AW future looks grim.

The fact that you are worried pretty much shows you suck at being an asshat :D

Welcome to AW

[FOTSGreg]

Does being a complete hack equal being an asshat?

How about absolutely needing an editor to tell me where I screwed up using the language (or a beta reader at the very least to tell me where I completely screwed up the story's continuity or left out something critical)?

Darunit, most of the people I work with think I'm already a complete asshat and I so much want those I associate with to think the same thing (how else am I to complete the training in order to earn my AW Curmudgeon badge)?

Yes, this post was edited before posting, but not by anything resembling a pro.

:)

[benbradley]

NOTE: True asshats rarely think they're asshats.
Just as I thought. Denial is a part of the disease of asshatism.

[thothguard51]

Do we get special head wear for being an asshat?

[KTC]

NOTE: True asshats rarely think they're asshats.

but some of us KNOW we are. us wise ones, that is.

[Medievalist]

Do we get special head wear for being an asshat?

I could certainly arrange that, but you too suck at being an asshat.

Sorry. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you are sadly lacking in asshattery.

[Birol]

Darunit, most of the people I work with think I'm already a complete asshat and I so much want those I associate with to think the same thing (how else am I to complete the training in order to earn my AW Curmudgeon badge)?

Curmudgeons are not necessarily asshats. Some curmudgeons are asshats, but not all asshats are curmudgeons.

[thothguard51]

I could certainly arrange that, but you too suck at being an asshat.

Sorry. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you are sadly lacking in asshattery.

Too much the Virginia gentleman, from another era, I suppose.

Perhaps I can take classes at the local asshat college?

[FOTSGreg]

Oh! They give classes in asshattery? Would that be under haberdashery or proctology?

[KTC]

Oh! They give classes in asshattery? Would that be under haberdashery or proctology?

it's a dual stream. double minor equals a major.

i have my diploma, so shuteee.

[Medievalist]

Too much the Virginia gentleman, from another era, I suppose.

Perhaps I can take classes at the local asshat college?

Honestly?

I'd just as soon you didn't.