QWERTY vs. Dvorak - Which do you use?

[Bartholomew]

Well?

I'm trying to learn Dvorak typing, since its supposed to ultimately have less wear on my hands, and since I don't actually need to worry about my typewriter jamming anymore.

I'm curious about how many people use Dvorak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard) vs. QWERTY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY), though.

[Eddyz Aquila]

Dvorak is only to enchant my ears.
QWERTY is to enchant my readers.

[IdiotsRUs]

Does the phrase 'I had to google Dvorak' answer your question?

You need a 'huh, what?' option on your poll.

[Bartholomew]

You need a 'huh, what?' option on your poll.

That means you use QWERTY.

[IdiotsRUs]

If it helps, if you'd said 'an ergonomic keyboard', I would have known what you meant :D (though those aren't always, or even often, Dvorak, if I'm looking at it right...)They aren't hugely widespread over here. ETA: Actually had a look at the place my hubby buys all his parts. While they do ergonomic keyboards, they don't do Dvorak ones. I think. The pictures are quite small...

That means you use QWERTY. Your powers of deduction are superb.

[Bartholomew]

Your powers of deduction are superb.

I know. I once pointed at the sun and said, "Bright." The people around me marveled, and one of the more clever of them promptly invented sunglasses. True story.

In any case, I was directing you to the appropriate answer. QWERTY is actually French for "Huh, what?" Also a true story.

'an ergonomic keyboard', I would have known what you meant :D (though those aren't always, or even often, Dvorak, if I'm looking at it right...)An ergonomic keyboard is laid out so that you don't have to bend your wrists to get at the keys. They keys can be in any arrangement.

QWERTY keyboards have their keys placed to avoid jamming an old-fashioned typewriter.
Dvorak keyboards have their keys placed so that the most commonly pressed keys (in English) are on your home row.

[aruna]

I use a nine-finger method of my own invention.
The forefinger of my left hand is disabled: I broke the hand when I was ten, it was set badly, the finger cannot bend down, and never grew. So I kind of improvise.

[IdiotsRUs]

Dvorak keyboards have their keys placed so that the most commonly pressed keys (in English) are on your home row.


I remember seeing them on Tomorrow's World about twenty years or more ago. I'm not sure shops even sell them over here (The main PC sellers turn up nothing on a search for dvorak. Yes I'm bored this morning, although to be fair, I do a lot of ordering from these places anyway)...I've certainly never seen one.

[Bartholomew]

I remember seeing them on Tomorrow's World about twenty years or more ago. I'm not sure shops even sell them over here (after double checking the small pictures :D)...I've certainly never seen one.

You can change the input in your OS to Dvorak without actually owning a Dvorak keyboard. If you can touch-type in Dvorak, this isn't disorienting unless you actually look down. :)

[Sophia]

I use both. I set up a little icon on the Language bar in my Windows toolbar to switch between QWERTY and Dvorak at a click; easy peasy, and no need for a separate physical keyboard. (I use both just because I didn't bother learning some of the less-used symbols, and didn't want to put little stickers on my keys to tell me where they were).

I learnt Dvorak using an early version of this (http://gigliwood.com/abcd/lessons/). I found it a simple and effective way to learn.

[Kateness]

I use QWERTY. I'm so used to where all the keys are and type fast on this layout...switching to Dvorak might be useful for me in some way, but I can't quite think that it's worth it to go back to a 1wpm typing speed for the next year while I try to retrain my fingers where all the keys are.

[Bartholomew]

I use both. I set up a little icon on the Language bar in my Windows toolbar to switch between QWERTY and Dvorak at a click; easy peasy, and no need for a separate physical keyboard. (I use both just because I didn't bother learning some of the less-used symbols, and didn't want to put little stickers on my keys to tell me where they were).

I learnt Dvorak using an early version of this (http://gigliwood.com/abcd/lessons/). I found it a simple and effective way to learn.

We're doing it the same way!

So, is Dvorak actually the upgrade that the internet makes it out to be? I'm just now learning to type in it, so I'm still not sure.

[shaldna]

i ticked all the boxes because i use dvork at home, qwerty and a stenotype at work.

[Said The Sun]

So Dvorak is en quelque sorte like Pepsi?

[Sophia]

I type faster when using Dvorak, and it takes much longer for my hands to start hurting from a long typing session using Dvorak than it does when using QWERTY. I switch between my desktop (Dvorak) and my hubby's work laptop (QWERTY) most days, and the difference is noticeable.

It'll vary, of course, but most of the anecdotal evidence I have seems to back up that it makes enough of a difference to a lot of people to be worth the initial slowing down in typing speed. I think there's still a section on the Forward Motion writing boards for people who are switching, which has a lot of personal experiences on it that you might find interesting.

[Chasing the Horizon]

I learned to type as a young child and do it completely wrong. People watching me type are always amazed that I can touch-type so well with my hands all out of position. :tongue I suspect this would make learning any keyboard layout that was based on having your hands positioned properly impossible for me.

[IdiotsRUs]

You can change the input in your OS to Dvorak without actually owning a Dvorak keyboard. If you can touch-type in Dvorak, this isn't disorienting unless you actually look down. :)


I learned to type as a young child and do it completely wrong. People watching me type are always amazed that I can touch-type so well with my hands all out of position. :tongue I suspect this would make learning any keyboard layout that was based on having your hands positioned properly impossible for me. This is me.

Now, see, I'd consider changing. Only, well, put it like this. Just learning the controls on a new game means large amounts of swearing. Learning a new way of typing where the letters I wanted to type are not represented on the keyboard...I'd have to invent new swearwords.

[Shara]

I've heard of Dvorak keyboards but I've never seen one, let alone used one.

I learned to touch type on a Qwerty keyboard 25 years ago. I spend my working day typing (I'm a secretary)) and then I go home and type some more when I write. My typing speed is something like 85 wpm and half the keys on my keyboard are blank, but it doesn't matter because I don't look down.

I'm trying to demonstrate that if I switched to a dvorak keyboard now it would look like I was typing a foreign language....

Shara

[Phaeal]

The only time I hurt myself typing fast is if I'm typing from copy. When I'm composing, my pace is leisurely enough to avoid stress. Even when I type from my handwritten drafts, I stay slow enough, since I make lots of changes as I go along.

Plus I had a drill sergeant typing teacher back in the day. Look at the keys? YOU PULING WEAKLING! DROP AND GIVE ME FIFTY! Question the sacred QWERTY? YOU ASKING ME TO TEAR YOU A NEW ONE, INFIDEL?!?

This stays with you through life.

[Polenth]

I use Qwerty, because they're cheap and usually come with the machines.

I can't say I've ever noticed it wearing on my hands. I have to be careful I'm sitting properly or my back hurts, and I need a wrist pad for my mouse... but typing has never left my hands hurting. I can see it might help if you had issues with your hands hurting though.

[Soccer Mom]

I've been using qwerty to even think about changing. I learned it long ago on an old computer where you had to type REALLY HARD to make the keys go.

[Namatu]

What are you all talking about? Type with QWERTY. Listen to Dvorak (http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/dvorak.php)! :e2violin:

[Bufty]

I type using two fingers and get along fine with Qwerty. Qwerty is a fun word to type for one-fingered willies like me.

[shaldna]

I've heard of Dvorak keyboards but I've never seen one, let alone used one.

I learned to touch type on a Qwerty keyboard 25 years ago. I spend my working day typing (I'm a secretary)) and then I go home and type some more when I write. My typing speed is something like 85 wpm and half the keys on my keyboard are blank, but it doesn't matter because I don't look down.

I'm trying to demonstrate that if I switched to a dvorak keyboard now it would look like I was typing a foreign language....

Shara


same here, it learned to touch type at school, and my keyboard at home is so worn you can't see most of the letters anymore.

[Jamesaritchie]

I type using what was once called "modified newspaper style", which means four fingers and one thumb. It's more than fast enough, and I can type seventy words per minute pretty much error free. But I can't write well nearly this fast.

Shoot, Nancy Kress, prolific as she is, types using one finger. http://nancykress.blogspot.com/2008/09/writers-elbow.html

I don't worry about how fast I type, I worry about how fast I write well, and I write well from seven to twelve words per minute. So QWERTY or Dvorak or alphabatized, which I've also used and like, doesn't really matter to me.

[Susan Littlefield]

I use all my fingers on my laptop keyboard. At work, I use one of those square flat keyboards.

Can you tell I'm not up on QWERTY or Dvorak or whatever type of keyboard? As long as it works and I can write well both at home and at work, I am happy.

[Susan Littlefield]

I just googled QWERTY, and that keyboard is all mixed up! What is this thing with the vowels all next to each other, and they are not even in order.

The Dvorak is just as bad.

Do tell- what is so special about these keyboards? Why not just one that has all the keys in the correct place--meaning, how some of us (James Ritchie, you can relate to this, I'm sure) learned to type on those wonderful old typewriters?

[Bartholomew]

SusanL, now I really want to see your keyboard. :)

[Polenth]

I just googled QWERTY, and that keyboard is all mixed up! What is this thing with the vowels all next to each other, and they are not even in order.

The Dvorak is just as bad.

Do tell- what is so special about these keyboards? Why not just one that has all the keys in the correct place--meaning, how some of us (James Ritchie, you can relate to this, I'm sure) learned to type on those wonderful old typewriters?

Qwerty is a common typewriter arrangement and it's the default for most computers. If you didn't go out of your way to buy a special keyboard (or get a special typewriter), it's very likely to be qwerty.

Qwerty also doesn't have the vowels next to each other, which is why I wonder if you found something else.

You'll know if you're using one, because starting from the top left of the letters section, the key order spells out qwerty.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I've been touch typing on a QWERTY keyboard for over 40 years. I have no interest whatsoever in having to relearn the entire typing process just to "supposedly" gain some speed or relieve some alleged pain.

[Susan Littlefield]

Now I feel really silly. :D:hooray:

This is the link that I looked at first: http://home.earthlink.net/~dcrehr/whyqwert.html (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Edcrehr/whyqwert.html) (scroll to the bottom)

But I understand this is what it looks like today: http://www.dayiwasborn.net/templates/System/details.asp?id=40333&PID=496162 (duh, like mine).

As for Dvorak: this is the link I looked at first-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard

Okay, so I guess I sue to QWERTY (in modern form, that is).

[Susan Littlefield]

You'll know if you're using one, because starting from the top left of the letters section, the key order spells out qwerty.

Never noticed that.

[Susan Littlefield]

SusanL, now I really want to see your keyboard. :)

Yes, I'm sure you do. :roll:

[Jamesaritchie]

I just googled QWERTY, and that keyboard is all mixed up! What is this thing with the vowels all next to each other, and they are not even in order.

The Dvorak is just as bad.

Do tell- what is so special about these keyboards? Why not just one that has all the keys in the correct place--meaning, how some of us (James Ritchie, you can relate to this, I'm sure) learned to type on those wonderful old typewriters?

QWERTY has been standard for many, many years, and it's what old typewrietrs use.

As near as I can tell, the draw of Dvorak is that you can type four times as many common word without leaving home row. I suspect this is true, but in the real world, Dvorak holds little or no superiority over QWERTY. Some studies, in fact, show that QWERTY is actually faster and easier for most typists.

And, of course, you can, using QWERTY, type the word "typewriter" using only the top row of letters. One legend says this was done intentionally for advertising purposes.

From my experience, brand new typists learn faster and easier with a keyboard that has teh letters in alphabetical order. Who knows if it's true, but legend also says keyboards were changed from alphabetical order to QWERTY precisely ebcause QWERTY is slower, and the keys didn't jam when typists got too fast.

[Jodie_writes_what?]

I'm QWERTY.. but like the idea of the Dvorak. Only problem is I'd probably type letters all wrong since I touchtype.

[Susan Littlefield]

QWERTY has been standard for many, many years, and it's what old typewrietrs use.

I love the old typewriters. Mom bought me my first one when I was about ten or eleven. It was actually a child's manual typewriter- pink with white keys, but it typed. I used to type my poems on that old typewriter. Great memoreis!


As near as I can tell, the draw of Dvorak is that you can type four times as many common word without leaving home row. I suspect this is true, but in the real world, Dvorak holds little or no superiority over QWERTY. Some studies, in fact, show that QWERTY is actually faster and easier for most typists.
I was looking at a picture of the Dvorak keyboard and it looked like I would have to learn to type all over again. It's was kind of strange looking too with the vowels all together, etc.

And, of course, you can, using QWERTY, type the word "typewriter" using only the top row of letters. One legend says this was done intentionally for advertising purposes.You're right- typewriter. There, I did it! :D

From my experience, brand new typists learn faster and easier with a keyboard that has teh letters in alphabetical order. Who knows if it's true, but legend also says keyboards were changed from alphabetical order to QWERTY precisely ebcause QWERTY is slower, and the keys didn't jam when typists got too fast.I am so used to this QWERTY format, and pretty much set in my ways, that I don't know if I could learn on the Dvorak or the one where the keys are in alphabetical order. I'd probably get frustrated and throw them away or something. Besides, why fix something if it is not broken?

[Bartholomew]

If you try to learn Dvorak, you really start to notice the advantages when you start typing words like the, noun, teeth, no, one, etc. Stuff rolls off your fingers way easier.

I'm having fun learning a new typing technique, anyway.

[Coill]

Colemak is even better than Dvorak!

http://colemak.com/
http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?colemak

It's what I'm trying to learn at the moment.

[Moonbase]

On Windows machines, I use a QWERTZ (German) physical keyboard (cheapest to get over here) plus a keyboard driver I devised a few years ago. It allows me to have most european and some important typographical characters readily available when typing.

Wanna look? Well, here goes …
http://www.kaufen-ist-toll.de/download/tools/kbdgrext.png
(All the red ones are dead keys, blue/purple are combinations w/ right ALT key.)

I also find the NEO keyboard layout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Neo) quite interesting, though I’d probably never be able to re-train for that (or Dvorak) at my age …

[Anne Lyle]

I started using Dvorak in 2007 after I started getting RSI. Wrists are fine now, even though I type all day for my job and then write for much of my spare time. Don't know if that's Dvorak alone, though, or the benefits of finally learning to touch-type!

As for age - FWIW, I was in my mid-forties when I started, and had only four months to master the layout before doing NaNoWriMo (which I won). This old dog loves new tricks :)

[1000th Sun]

I use QWERTY just because it's standard and I type fast enough on it.

[Sarah1981]

I don't feel the need to switch from QWERTY. This is the only layout I've ever used, after all, and I don't have any problems with pain or discomfort. That's especially true when I have my mechanical-switch keyboard (an old Dell AT-101 - fantastic 'board for writing).

[ave]

iv never even heard of Dv@%$WTF
but I wouldnt mind trying one out. There will be a lot to unlearn

[Margarita Skies]

I use QWERTY. I tried the DVORAK once, like 9 years ago, almost 10, and I had to leave that desktop computer alone because I could not type on the keyboard the way I do on the QWERTY. Had been using QWERTY for several years and I guess I couldn't get used to it.

[kuwisdelu]

QWERTY. I type fast enough anyway, so I don't see the reason to relearn everything. Besides, it would make using computers not my own difficult.

[Bookmama]

While I realize that not knowing what Dvorak is means I use Qwerty, I wouldn't mind a brief explanation of what Dvorak is, to save me Googling. But what I'm even more curious about is the people who selected "Something else" -- what else is there?

Do some people get their words into the computer with mental telepathy?

[Synovia]

I just googled QWERTY, and that keyboard is all mixed up! What is this thing with the vowels all next to each other, and they are not even in order.

The Dvorak is just as bad.

Do tell- what is so special about these keyboards? Why not just one that has all the keys in the correct place--meaning, how some of us (James Ritchie, you can relate to this, I'm sure) learned to type on those wonderful old typewriters?

The QWERTY layout common on typewriters and most computers was designed to slow down typists so that the hammers in a typewriter didn't get caught on each other.

DVORAK is designed to be as fast and take as little movement as possible, because modern keyboards don't have any parts where speed can break things.

[Synovia]

Colemak is even better than Dvorak!

http://colemak.com/
http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?colemak

It's what I'm trying to learn at the moment.


Never seen that. Looks like they swapped the U out of the home row, and replaced it with R (which seems like a good idea to me). They also moved "ST" to a more logical layout next to each other.

[Chris P]

This zombie thread has to have one of the most gradual reawakenings in the history of AW. It's just been slowly stirring.

I learned to touchtype in high school on Qwerty. Even the minor differences in the special characters on a UK keyboard mess me up. I could learn Dvorak if I needed to, I guess, but until I need to I don't see much of a reason to.

[JSSchley]

I would love to switch to Dvorak because between grad school and novel writing, I spend all my time typing. But I also have to go back and forth between home computers and campus computers, and the campus ones don't allow you to switch the keyboard layout. If there was some add-in I could carry on my USB drive to override a public computer's settings, I would switch in a heartbeat...

[MarielofRedwall]

I've always used Qwerty... and I type differently, I don't use home-row. I use everything but my pinkies (poor, weak pinkies:()

[FOTSGreg]

I never learned to touch-type, really, but I spent 12 years learning to play the organ. When I type, my hands overlap and my fingers dance all over the place. I watch the keyboard rather than the screen.

People who touch-type marvel that I can even put together a correctly-spelled word with my style, but I've consistently tested at 48 wpm under interview conditions (and I know I type faster than that when I'm "in the groove").

I've used a QWERTY keyboard since I first started using a flea market bought Royal typewriter with a broken "A" key.

[bongalak]

I started learning dvorak about a month ago. I've gotten better with, but it's still a bit frustrating because I still can't type as fluently as I used to back in my querty days. But I heard it takes 2 to 3 months to get really good at it, so I'm keeping at it. Besides, I'm really at a point of no return because now querty feels almost alien to me.

[Xelebes]

Canadian QWERTY Bilingual

I get: a few extra keys, the slash replacing the hash, the question mark replacing the caret, the pipe replaces the tilde and so forth.

[FabricatedParadise]

I learned to type as a young child and do it completely wrong. People watching me type are always amazed that I can touch-type so well with my hands all out of position. :tongue I suspect this would make learning any keyboard layout that was based on having your hands positioned properly impossible for me.

I'm the same way. I think I was around 5 when I started learning to type. I can do it with my hands positioned correctly (qwerty only), but can only type around 40wpm that way. My natural way of typing is with my index and middle fingers of both hands and using my thumb for spacebar. Doing it this way, I can pull about 90wpm. If I do it one handed (I spent a lot of time holding the phone to my ear with one hand and typing with the other as a teen), I can still do around 55wpm. Looks insane, but it gets the job done.

[blacbird]

I learned QWERTY in a typing class in eighth grade, and have never looked back. Trying to learn a new system is an utter non-starter. Life is way too short.

caw

[Swtlo]

A few years ago there was some speculation about a t9 keyboard marketed towards teeneagers because of the texting trend. This was before the boom of querty phones mind you. I remember because my brother was excited he may actually know how how to type *eye roll* rather than have to learn the traditional way. I was boggled as to how. I always hated t9 and jumped at the chance of a full keyboard on my phone. I guess I'm a "why fix what's not broken" person. I can be pretty stubborn when it comes to unnecessary change, I have enough on my plate thank you.

[Matera the Mad]

Qwerty 'til I die. That's what I learned on, 40-some years ago, and I have too many other things to learn yet to complicate it all with a different keyboard. :tongue

Right now I just wish I could do without my left pinkie, which would hurt like hell on any keyboard. :(

[BDSEmpire]

Of all the things I learned in high school, touch-typing has been the most dramatically useful in my IT career. Mark me down as another QWERTY4Life user.

[Homewrecker]

'Nother QWERTYkid. Use to be fairly swift at it when I worked in an office fulltime now I've slugged down to a mean 70wpm. No plans to change. :)