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View Full Version : Do you submit to FLEDGLING markets?


defyalllogic
07-19-2010, 11:45 PM
I was browsing Duotrope and wonders what others think.

(FLEDGLING MARKET: This market is under six months old.)

do you wait for them to build or gauge them on some other criteria or just avoid them all together?

MJRevell
07-19-2010, 11:59 PM
It depends.

If it looks good, and they pay well, then I would still submit.

Manuel Royal
07-20-2010, 12:25 AM
Sure. I've already been rejected twice by Daily Science Fiction, and they haven't published their first story yet.

Polenth
07-20-2010, 12:43 AM
It depends. I submitted to Lightspeed because it came from a known publisher (who also run Fantasy magazine) and had a well-known editor (JJA worked for a major magazine and has anthology experience).

A hobby ezine by a complete unknown would be one year of watching before I decide whether to submit. They have no reputation, so they're going to have to show me they produce a good product and they're not going to quit after an issue.

The inbetweens vary, but I wouldn't submit to a market without waiting for the first issue at least (unless the editor is known for their editing work).

Jamesaritchie
07-20-2010, 01:14 AM
Magazines come and go just short of the speed of light. If you don't sell to one today, it may be out of business tomorrow.

Why wait until the slush pile is large enough to fill three rooms, and all the pro writers out there have their own stories in front of your?

Getting in on the ground floor is always a good business move, and writing is always a business.

jennontheisland
07-20-2010, 01:17 AM
Magazines come and go just short of the speed of light. If you don't sell to one today, it may be out of business tomorrow.

Why wait until the slush pile is large enough to fill three rooms, and all the pro writers out there have their own stories in front of your?

Getting in on the ground floor is always a good business move, and writing is always a business.
I'm going to agree with this to a point. If the publisher, editor or owner of the business is on the ground floor themselves, I'm not sure I'd want to be there with them.

(New epubs with no experience whatsoever come to mind)

Granted the ones that pay flat rate up front... yeah, might want to take the money and run.

Shiny
07-20-2010, 03:01 AM
I submit to fledglings. I have no idea whether it's wise or not, but if they pay pro rates, I submit to them.

Gray Rose
07-20-2010, 04:58 AM
Like Polenth said, Lightspeed is a good option even though it is fledgling because they pay pro, are run by an established press (Prime), and the editor is well known in the field.

Daily SF is more of a gamble, I feel, because the editors are not known players in the field, and I cannot understand their marketing model. 8c a word is a lot to pay for a year-long inventory of stories. Nevertheless, they are worth a gamble because they pay pro and respond quickly.

That said, I once submitted to a pro-paying fledgling market that held my story for 7 months or more and then folded. Subbing to fledgling markets is always a gamble.

defyalllogic
07-20-2010, 05:13 AM
good advice all around. thanks!

Alan Yee
07-20-2010, 05:18 AM
Daily SF is more of a gamble, I feel, because the editors are not known players in the field, and I cannot understand their marketing model. 8c a word is a lot to pay for a year-long inventory of stories. Nevertheless, they are worth a gamble because they pay pro and respond quickly.


The editors previously edited a small press zine called Fictitious Force, which paid one cent per word and folded after (if I remember correctly) five issues. But yeah, the 8 cents/word part puzzled me, especially since they'll be publishing a story every day except for weekends. I'm curious how long they'll be able to sustain the publication paying that much money that often. Even so, with that pay scale, I think they're probably worth a shot.

Izz
07-20-2010, 06:47 AM
Daily SF is more of a gamble, I feel, because the editors are not known players in the field, and I cannot understand their marketing model. 8c a word is a lot to pay for a year-long inventory of stories. Nevertheless, they are worth a gamble because they pay pro and respond quickly.Yeah, i figure they'll be spending a minimum of $21,000 on short fiction per year, which is a lot to pay out of one's own pocket (though, as someone pointed out to me, they could have landed a grant).

Nonetheless, i'm still submitting short (read:flash) stuff to them. 8c a word is hard to pass up.

Gray Rose
07-20-2010, 07:47 AM
The editors previously edited a small press zine called Fictitious Force, which paid one cent per word and folded after (if I remember correctly) five issues.
Didn't know that, and it doesn't sound too encouraging.
I wonder why they don't list that on their About page.

Yeah, i figure they'll be spending a minimum of $21,000 on short fiction per year, which is a lot to pay out of one's own pocket (though, as someone pointed out to me, they could have landed a grant).
.
Then why aren't they disclosing it?

I think I just decided not to submit to them. That's ok, because I have a long list of markets for the next 2 stories. I'm just not prolific enough for these markets.

Dungeon Geek
07-20-2010, 08:18 AM
Well, I have a story accepted for Daily Science Fiction, and so do some writers who are bigger names than me. I believe the editors are getting the amount and quality of fiction they need, but if they fold, they fold. Realms of Fantasy seems to be in trouble to some degree and could fold (they need subscribers!) but is that a reason for me to avoid submitting to them? No, because I'm sending them a story tomorrow. At 8 cents a word, what's to lose by submitting to Daily Science Fiction?

Izz
07-20-2010, 09:18 AM
Well, I have a story accepted for Daily Science Fiction, and so do some writers who are bigger names than me. I believe the editors are getting the amount and quality of fiction they need, but if they fold, they fold. Realms of Fantasy seems to be in trouble to some degree and could fold (they need subscribers!) but is that a reason for me to avoid submitting to them? No, because I'm sending them a story tomorrow. At 8 cents a word, what's to lose by submitting to Daily Science Fiction?I also hope they succeed (and really want them to), but will they be able to sustain over 12 months the quality of fiction they need to gain and keep readership? Fiction five days a week equals 260 stories a year. Are there 260 extra stories out there, on top of what's already published yearly in the pro markets (and in the highly sought after semi-pros and lesser-paying), that are worth 8c a word? I really hope so, but I have my doubts. Time will tell, i guess.

Like i said before, it won't stop me submitting stuff to them, but they aren't yet at the top of my submission list.

ETA: actually, maybe that's more of a reason for me to sub to them... i might sneak in on the next story-tier down:D

Calypso
07-20-2010, 06:49 PM
It sounds like most people here are talking about paying markets (and science fiction, specifically) but I submit literary fiction, so it's a little different. New online journals for lit fiction are sprouting up everywhere. To be honest, now when I hear about a new online journal (that doesn't pay, of course), I kind of sigh. I'm all for new publications and I'm sure some are capable of being really great, but overall it's so easy to start a new online journal, and so many people are doing so, that I'm a little wary.

I did submit to a rather new online journal (run through a university) and I was accepted. It is an attractive journal and the editors are great about drumming up publicity for it, so I have had a good experience. However, I have decided that was the last time I would submit to a new, non-paying online journal.

This isn't an online-vs.-print thing for me. There are some really lovely online journals, even ones that don't pay, that I would love to appear in, but otherwise the market seems diluted with these new places that don't pay.

If the journal pays, or its creators have demonstrated that they are putting extraordinary care, time, money, or attention into the new journal, then I would be more likely to submit.

Gray Rose
07-20-2010, 07:04 PM
Dungeon Geek - congrats on your sale. That is truly awesome.

What is there to lose? Well, that's an individual consideration, and for most writers 8c a word is a great deal that trumps everything else. Most writers also have many more stories to market than I do. I have zero out right now and 2 almost ready to go. I hope to have two more soon, but this sudden influx of productivity was due to a workshop I attended. With so few stories to market, I am being careful.
I wasn't telling people not to submit - on the contrary, if you see what I said above, I think DSF is worth a gamble. But for myself, I will wait.

Here are my highly individual reasons. Again, not telling people what to do! Just sharing my thoughts.

1. They do not qualify for SFWA, and I want finally to become a full member.
2. I have a nice list of SFWA-qualifying markets for my 2 new stories.
3. I usually trunk stories that do not sell after a certain number of iterations. This is a very arguable point and is very individual. I would encourage people to keep sending until they sell somewhere. But for myself - I have only published 4 stories, and all of them sold to their second or third market. So I trunk early these days - if a story of mine doesn't sell, something is broken plotwise and I need to sit on it and think.
4. If I exhaust my list of SFWA-qualifying markets for these stories, the next step will be Weird Tales. I would rather sell to Weird Tales for less $ than to DSF. This is not idle wishful thinking in my case, because they almost bought the last story I sent them, so I know Ann likes my stuff. By the time Weird Tales is done considering (they take a LONG while), we will know one way or another with DSF.

Now if I had 10, 20 stories to market? Sure enough, I would sub to DSF. It is worth the risk.

Gray Rose
07-20-2010, 07:09 PM
It sounds like most people here are talking about paying markets (and science fiction, specifically) but I submit literary fiction, so it's a little different. New online journals for lit fiction are sprouting up everywhere. To be honest, now when I hear about a new online journal (that doesn't pay, of course), I kind of sigh. I'm all for new publications and I'm sure some are capable of being really great, but overall it's so easy to start a new online journal, and so many people are doing so, that I'm a little wary.


Calypso, we are discussing SFF because that's the OP's stated genre. Rules are different with literary, but I absolutely agree with you re: wariness about online free markets.

I run an online market myself (it's poetry, and I do pay), but the publicity thing is hard, so I can see where editors can fail. I have a lot of editing experience, and I know lots and lots of people in the SF poetry community and got many excellent submissions, but getting the word out there and getting the kind of submissions I need is a long and painful process.

izanobu
07-20-2010, 08:49 PM
My rule on new markets is 1) do they pay pro rates? and 2) if not, but still pay decent semi-rates then 3) I wait until the first issue is out and read it, seeing who is published and the quality of the stories (and editing). If I like what I see, I sub (though all my stuff hits top markets first, then semi-pro, then...well, I haven't run out of semi-pro markets yet).

If the market pays a professional rate, I take the chance up front :)

Dungeon Geek
07-20-2010, 09:27 PM
Gray Rose,

On your numbered points:

1. True, one can only hope they make it through the first year so a sale can qualify.

2. Good for you! Definitely send to your best markets first.

3. Now on this one I have to offer an oposing view. The tastes of editors vary so widely that 3 or 4 rejections does not mean a story won't sell or that it's "broken." It could be that you simply haven't found the right editor. And Daily Science Fiction could look pretty good on your credit list in the long run. Why trunk, when you can potentially sell it to a high paying market that will (if it makes it) feature some big names? That part doesn't make sense to me, but I think you're reading too deeply into a few rejections and assuming the story somehow isn't worthy. The reasons for the rejection could be a word count issue, a theme not currently sought by the magazine, a theme too close to another story, or that the story simply doesn't quite match up, or any number of things that are not worth changing before submitting again. If your gut tells you a story is strong (before a rejection) and you can read through it without wanting to change things, there's probably nothing wrong with it.

4. Weird Tales is high on my list too, so I can understand that.

Lydia Sharp
07-20-2010, 09:33 PM
Yes, I have submitted to fledgling markets, but only if they seem like a good fit for the piece I have to offer. I don't see being "new" as a flaw in itself.

Stijn Hommes
07-29-2010, 08:26 PM
I aim high and submit to the highest payers first. If it doesn't sell, then I consider submitting to any magazine I like the look of -- including fledgelings.

izanobu
08-09-2010, 05:09 AM
By the way, I did, in fact, submit to Daily SF and they bought my story. I feel pretty good about selling to them since frankly, they have bought some stories by prominent spec fic authors and they really do pay 8 cents a word. If they fold, it will be sad, but I have hope they won't. And I think they'll probably have no issue finding enough good fiction as long as they keep up that sort of pay rate.
I'm excited to see how they develop. It's nice to see new markets opening up.

VBurd2128
08-09-2010, 08:44 PM
I aim high and submit to the highest payers first. If it doesn't sell, then I consider submitting to any magazine I like the look of -- including fledgelings.

This seems like a reasonable way of going about things, in general. I won't just submit a story for the sake of having it somewhere, though. However, there are a number of fledgling publications that I like enough to submit to even if the pay isn't that great and I'm really not sure how long they're going to be around. It feels good to submit to something you really want to succeed.

defyalllogic
08-09-2010, 08:52 PM
yeah there are some that are not as well paying or are fledgling that have a good production quality or interesting niche that I want to be a part of...

Stijn Hommes
08-11-2010, 03:04 PM
This seems like a reasonable way of going about things, in general. I won't just submit a story for the sake of having it somewhere, though. However, there are a number of fledgling publications that I like enough to submit to even if the pay isn't that great and I'm really not sure how long they're going to be around. It feels good to submit to something you really want to succeed. You're absolutely right. I only submit to fledgelings I want to succeed and that I want to read myself.

Port Iris
08-15-2010, 09:59 AM
As the founder of a fledgling market, I'm glad to see that there is at least some support for them out there.

Unfortunately, fledgling markets are in a tougher spot than beginning authors. Not only are they fighting to get readers, but they're also fighting for talented writers to attract them. The best way to support one of these markets is to submit to it. You can always decline to sign a contract if you are unhappy with the abilities of the editor to improve your work.

If nothing else, read from fledgling markets. If you like what you see submit and tell other people about it.