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Ivonia
08-28-2005, 01:44 PM
In my current sci-fi/fantasy novel, the hero has a sister. However, she dies early on (in chapter 3), and one of my beta readers has told me that she doesn't feel as strongly about the sister dying as much as I'd like (as I'm hoping to make readers sad by reading about how she dies, and subsequently make them angry at the bad guys too).

It all starts with the prologue, on the planet of Scylla, showing some humanoid snakes (Scalians) scientists and their assistants exploring a jungle for an ancient ruins. They will eventually become "the bad guys", and the prologue shows what happened 50 years before my novel actually starts. Although I describe it in the novel, only one of them survives when they uncover an ancient evil, and he will become the bad guy's leader after a bloody 20 year civil war (I'm even mentioning it here because chapter 3 is when he shows up again, and I didn't want you guys thinking, "Wait a minute, where did "the bad guys" come from? I also cover this a little during the end parts of chapter 1 & 2, so that they don't seem to have magically appeared out of nowhere in case peeps skip my prologue. And I decided to leave this as the prologue ultimately because the way I figure it, if you bother to read it, you can catch a glimpse of the Scalian Emperor when he's just "an average joe", before becoming the leader of the Scalians. You can also see where he gets the forces/powers he uses later in the book. And finally, this is the only chapter where the hero or one of his friends isn't somewhere around in that chapter, mainly cause they're not even born yet).

In chapter 1, it shows the hero and his friends on their homeworld of Gaia (the good guys are humanoid dinosaurs, called Ivonians in my story) exploring an ancient ruins on their planet (think something like Indiana Jones for a rough idea of what's going on). His sister has joined the Space Navy against their uncle's wishes (I can't think of a better name for it atm, although I like the initials for it hehe), and spends one last adventure with them before she ships out. The hero's sister and several of his friends often end up in danger, and relies on the hero to save them (keep this in mind). At the end of the chapter, they see her off at the airport as she leaves them to go to her duty station in deep space (and the uncle also secretly sees her off, although they don't see him there cause he's hiding from them).

In chapter 2, it shows the hero and his friends are exploring another ruins (if I had never seen Independence Day or the Star Wars remakes, along with reading a ton of books, the sci-fi stuff would've never happened hehe). There the hero runs into some old "friends", who are now his enemies because they felt that he betrayed them years earlier when the hero was forced between saving them or his sister, and although he tried to save them all, he ultimately couldn't, and left those friends for dead. He ends up having to save them later in the chapter, although they ultimately save him afterwards (because he gets knocked out by a falling rock in a cave, and one of those former friends risks his neck to save the hero).

Finally, in chapter 3, we get to see the sister again, along with their Avian allies (humanoid birds) stationed in deep space, and we get to see her doing what she's been doing for the last few months. The Scalians (the bad guys) have developed a new super weapon, and their leader (the guy from the prologue), having felt that the Ivonians and Avians made his rise to power take longer than it needed to (remember what I mentioned in the prologue, the Ivonians and Avians are indirectly (or directly, depending on your point of view hehe) responsible for prolonging the civil war by aiding the other Scalians fighting against the "prologue character's forces" (again, the prologue shows you exactly where he gets his powers to win), and as result causing "the prolonged suffering of the Scalians" (which he uses as one of his main excuses to start a war with them) wants to test it out on the space station and the fleets protecting it (he also orders the Scalian fleet there, "No survivors"). Sorry if it sounds confusing, but then again, aren't reasons for going to war usually kind of confusing anyway?

This is my "Pearl Harbor in space" chapter (and it was really difficult having to write this and have so many get killed off, if any of you read my earlier post about writing through tough scenes), and when the bad guys finally order their ships to fire, it's essentially a massacre (as the good guys weren't expecting it, plus the bad guy's new ship decimates most of their forces in little time). As you can probably tell, the sister is aboard this space station when it's attacked and destroyed, although she bears no ill will towards the Scalians, and simply prays for the spirits to watch over her brother before she dies (I'm not graphical with showing her death either, I simply show the space station exploding after her prayer. I think it it's showing unneccesary, excessive violence. Also, I believe it shows a stronger message if I don't show her dying. I think anyone reading it can conclude that she doesn't survive).


From what you've read, do you have any kind of a connections to the hero's sister? The Scalians are pretty brutal throughout the war (and it doesn't help that they have a larger military force than the Ivonians and Avians combined), and I felt that by having her die, it would be stronger motivation for the hero to join the military. However, I also didn't want "revenge" to be the sole reason for him joining (as that's way too cliche nowadays). He always tries to protect his friends and family (remember what I said in chapter 1 & 2), and felt that he failed his sister when she died there, and refuses to sit back while the Scalians are killing everyone.

Okay, now that I've given you my situation, does anyone have any ideas on how I can improve it? My beta reader didn't feel for the sister much at all during chapter 3, and I really want readers to really feel sad when they read it (I did ask other beta readers for opinions, but unfortunately they have never responded with any feedback. And I know, don't just go off 1 reader's response, but I trust her judgment as well). I've contemplated having the sister visit the hero in his dreams, but it feels cheap if I use it too much (and doesn't help my current situation much either, as it happens after she dies) and will seem like she's not really gone (I think I'll have her visit him once afterwards, before a key event).

I'm sure some of you will wonder/ask why Chapter's 1 & 2 are so different from the rest of the novel (where they're cave-hopping and exploring ancient ruins, while the rest of my novel after those two is along the lines of "Star Wars", what with the huge space war going on starting with Chapter 3). My reasoning is that I wanted to show what the hero and his friends do before the war starts, because they did have a life (albeit a weird one), and all that "cave-hopping" that they're doing will come into play again later.

Sorry if I wrote too much. I tried making it readable without making it too vague on my situation (you'd basically have to read it to give me any more specific comments I think), and I wanted to help make the hero's relationship to his sister a strong one (prior to her death), to the point where readers will feel some strong emotions when reading it (I'm also hoping to evoke emotions of hatred and anger towards the Scalians, so that when the hero does strike back, the satisfaction payoff will be bigger hehe. I should note however, that not every Scalian are "hell bent on destruction" like their Emperor is, although most of them will blindly follow him, as people have done throughout the ages of "following" someone even when they were "evil". But I have the rest of the novel to work those feelings up hehe). Any advice you can give would be appreciated. It's not a major writing block atm, but I want it to be effective.

StoryG27
08-28-2005, 03:12 PM
Well, like you said, it's hard to give a really specific answer without reading the chapters.

Can I first say, I love the conflict you built. And also, I can't tell the pace of the first few chapters, but it kind of sounds like it is backstory or build up for the REAL action, and you always want to be careful doing that, because it can make for a slow start, though I have to admit, just from the little I've read, it doesn't sound slow, but back to the..."without reading it"...thing...just can't tell for sure.

Ok, now onto the subject you asked about. You said you trust your beta reader's opinion...so why not ask your reader what would have made her care for and connect with the sister more. Honestly, I cared just from reading this little excerpt, and I KNEW she was going to die, you said it in the beginning. But, that could have something to do with the fact that it is 5:30 am on a Sunday morning and I'm pretty dang tired but can't go back to sleep (dang cold!). Also, I have strong sibbling ties to draw up emotions in me...I'm very close to my brothers and sisters, and that could have something to do with it also. Unfortunately, you can't MAKE your readers feel anything, you can only set the perfect stage for the emotion and hope it grips them. Maybe your beta just wasn't in a caring mood the day she read it. Or maybe she can tell you what would have made the sister's death more sorrowful.

Sorry this isn't more informative, but long answer short, go back to your beta and ask what could be done (and get your other betas to answer you also). Ask for suggestions and specifics. Maybe something happened to turn your reader off to the sister, you never know.

Good luck...it's sounds like you've got an interesting story here!

Oh, little side note here~ It's 'bonding' not 'bondage'...this made me chuckle, but I knew what you meant.

Mistook
08-28-2005, 04:21 PM
Yeah, let's hear it for sibling bondage!
:PartySmil

Christine N.
08-28-2005, 04:29 PM
I was thinking the same thing... what kind of kinky book IS she writing???

Aconite
08-28-2005, 04:39 PM
I was trying to figure out how to tactfully suggest it be moved to the erotica board.

Torin
08-28-2005, 05:39 PM
From reading the actual post, I'm gathering "bondage" is being used to mean "the bond between", rather than "bondage" in the sexual sense. There are dangers in forcing words to mean something they don't ordinarily mean.

IMO, for readers to care about a character, they have to get to know her (him/it) first. If you want people to care about Sister, she'll have to make meaningful appearances before her untimely demise. It's not necessary to show the bond with her brother--you want your readers to bond with her.

brinkett
08-28-2005, 05:47 PM
It depends on why you want readers to care. If you want them to care because they care about the sister, see Torin's response. If you want them to care because of how it impacts the hero, then show it impacting the hero. You have the rest of the story to do so, and it means the payoff for the sister's death will surface over the course of the story. You're on the right track by tying it in to the hero's subsequent motivation.

As an aside, I wouldn't try to make readers feel anything. You can't control how readers will respond and if you have a particular emotional response in mind when you're writing, the result may come across as manipulative and cheap.

HapiSofi
08-28-2005, 06:46 PM
Cut the cave-hopping, cut the part about the sister, especially cut the prologue, and get down to the war. If you actually need the informational content in the prologue, have a character summarize it later on.

I say this as a matter of general principles, not as a solution to your problem with reader sympathy. I'm not sure the sister needs to exist at all. Are you sure you aren't falling into the Hollywood cliche where the only real motivation is (aside from danger to oneself) the death or threatened death of loved ones? If your readers can't tell that the people your main character is at war with are the bad guys, you have problems too big to be fixed with a little quick cuffs-and-flogging between sibs.

(Yes, I eventually figured out that you meant bonding, not bondage. It may seem like a small difference to you, but the inadvertent effect was startling.)

It sounds to me like the sister pretty much exists to get killed. She fills in her time before her scheduled death by getting rescued instead. That's a problem. It's almost impossible to make readers care about someone who has a great big target painted on her back.

If you really want to set things up that way, start by driving all notions of the sister's death out of your mind. If you know she's doomed while you're writing about her, the readers will know it too. It's one of their supernatural abilities. Think of a character like that as a hot stock you're trying to promote. You have to give the readers incentives to invest in her, and not warn them that she's about to drop.

Start by making the sister look every bit as competent as her brother. Treat her like she's going to be a major character throughout the book. Make her fun. Make her distinctive. Give her her own set of secondary characters. Give her something to do that's going to leave a hole in everyone's arrangements. If you want your readers to feel anything, you have to give them a real person with a real life, and every expectation of continuing that life, and then have that person suddenly meet with terrible and arbitrary violence.

The readers have to take the raid seriously, too. Don't have the bad guys using it as a test of concept; that's halfhearted and feeble. Make it a real raid, an act of warfare. Logically, that's what it has to be anyway. If you mount an attack like that, you're going to have a war on your hands, no matter what purpose you intended.

When it's time to kill off the sister, don't let the readers see it coming. If she weren't scheduled to die in a general conflagration, I'd tell you to make it necessary to have her momentarily move into the line of fire, and have her catch a bullet while she's doing it. It doesn't have to be a bullet, but her death has to be fast and unexpected, and -- here's where you're really going wrong -- the camera has to be right next to her when it happens. If there's motivation in her dying, we have to see her die.

Arguably, you have to specify the mechanism of injury: when an explosion rips through her part of the station, she's cut in half by a flying section of steel bulkhead. Or, she has a moment's agony as she's burned to a crisp. Or, a fragment of [something], moving extremely fast, rips through a major artery, and she has a few confused seconds of Huh? Blood everywhere? before darkness takes her. Or, the gale-force wind of explosive decompression snatches her up and pastes her against a heavy steel grating, and in the last instant of her life she looks up to see every unsecured object in the station heading toward her at high speed. Whatever. Make it clear, make it fast, make it specific, and don't flinch.

And while we're on the subject, don't have her die murmuring a prayer to the Indistinct Spirits of Nominal Religion. That's just another way of glossing over her death; and again, it'll rob you of your effect.

LloydBrown
08-28-2005, 07:15 PM
HapiSofi made an excellent point about creating a character who exists just to be killed. About the best execution (no pun intended) I've seen was

Gage in Stephen King's Pet Sematery, the protag's young son. King started out the chapter by telling us Gage died, and then gave us the whole story of his death after the fact. An excellent delivery through a difficult technique.

The movie handling was less deft (in fact, it was blatant and therefore, less effective).

Readers can often see when they're being manipulated, and it has become as common as dirt for family members to show up just to die.

Ivonia
08-29-2005, 01:43 AM
Thanks for the replies so far! I changed my title after finding out that it was giving some confusion (or tried to anyway).

I guess I should've mentioned too that the hero's sister is far from being weak. In fact, she does lead a team of their friends (they're split up at first, exploring different sections of the ruins. It was also a good excuse to give me a way to not introduce all of them at once either), and when fights ensue (yeah, I have wild creatures and "monsters" into my book, but they have a reason for being there, but it's not just "they're in the book for the sake of having monsters for the hero to fight"), she actually does kick some butt (several of their friends often joke and won't let the hero live down the fact that she's beat him up a few times before, despite being younger than he is).

I realized that I didn't want the sister being seen as weak (and showing character's weaknesses isn't too big a problem, in fact, one of my characters is a big scaredy cat, and the hero's sister has to save him from getting attacked), and from the response of another beta reader after I posted (yay, someone else finally sent some feedback hehe) said that he liked reading my chapter 1, and he liked how I often tricked him by putting them in dangerous situations (in one instance, the hero and his g/f get seperated from the rest of his friends by a trap floor. The g/f gets hurt and he has to choose between saving her or his friends, and not learning from his lesson before of only being able to save one or the other, attempts to again save them all. This time he does succeed however).

Surprisingly enough, other feedback from the new beta reader said that he liked the danger I often put them in. I have two wolf-like creatures ramming themselves against a metal bar gate in an attempt to break through it, to get into the room where the hero's sister and other friends fall into, and unfortunately for them, the hero accidentally lets them in when he opens a gate somewhere else in an attempt to reach them (he said he liked how that worked out). And here the sister once again shows that she's not weak.

As for the big war, I forgot to mention that a long time ago, all three species were on friendly terms with each other (kind of shown via dialogue in the prologue), but obviously after the civil war the new leader of the Scalians grew increasingly hostile towards the other two. While they were in talks, the Scalians demanded that they give up territories in space which the other two flatly refused (sadly, this isn't too far from the truth in some parts of today's world). When the talks fail, the Scalian Emperor knows that the only solution to his "problem" with the Ivonians and Avians is war, and he realizes that by attacking them, it's a declaration of war (not that he's afraid of them, as he's got a far larger military force than the good guys). What he fails to realize is that by doing this, he will inevitably draw the hero into the war as well (with some satisfying results at the end of the book I must say hehe. They don't win the war at the end of the book, but they certainly win a major victory, kinda like Luke Skywalker blowing up the Death Star).

Prior to the war starting, the Scalians had a habit of sending their fleets near the military outposts of the Ivonians and Avians, and they would always leave within ten to thirty minutes, which is why the hero's sister thinks nothing of it when she sees them doing it again.

In chapter 3, although the hero's sister notices that the Scalians have a new massive ship with them (which does scare her a little, as that ship is almost as large as the space station itself), she doesn't think of the situation any differently (which is why they're caught offguard completely when the Scalians do open fire. I think there was a term "familiarity breeds complacency" or something along those lines, where the Ivonians and Avians got so used to seeing them do that they didn't think of doing anything differently).

As a little foreshadow for the hero, in his sister's last last video message, he sees the Scalian ships opening fire in the background at her (through her window, she doesn't see it because her back is turned to it) while she's recording her message, followed by a massive explosion on the space station (which the sister concludes is "another reactor blowing up or something", as she hasn't seen them firing yet, and the space station has "jolted" like that in the past. Can never really trust military equipment, hehe, as the hero also finds out later).

So by the time the hero receives word of the attack (via the news reports), he's already seen it in his sister's last message to him. Chapter 4 starts out with the hero's friends going to one of their houses, and they notice massive amounts of military aircraft moving about throughout the sky, but they don't know why it's happening just yet. They see on the news report later that some civilian ships bringing supplies to the station arrived just after the Scalian fleet left, and obviously they're going to call "CNN" about this. So much for the military attempting to cover up this tragedy from the public (not that the massive flights they're doing helped hide anything). This was originally chapter 1, but I felt it didn't work as well, so I ended up rewriting the whole thing.