Omniscient POV; the Pratchett way.

Status
Not open for further replies.

RemusShepherd

Banned
Flounced
VPXI
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
896
Reaction score
112
Age
58
Location
Midwest
Website
remus-shepherd.livejournal.com
I'm writing my current WIP in third-person omniscient POV, and it's supposed to be a comedy. So I figure, who else to study but Terry Pratchett? All the Discworld novels are humorous and in Omni POV, and I have a few of them on my bookshelf already.

In studying them, I discovered a pattern to how Sir Pterry uses perspective. Of course he shifts from character to character after a scene break; that's not exclusive to omni POV, multiple tight third does that also. But when he shifts POV during a scene, it seems to be for three specific reasons.

1) Establishing shots. In new settings -- and almost always at the beginning of a story -- we get an omniscient look at the landscape in no fixed POV at all. It may then zoom in on a character, or it may carry through to a scene break. These 'establishing shots' are often packed with wry humor and are dripping with the author's voice. A lot of exposition is delivered this way, also.

I can see how easy it would be to overuse these establishing shots, and in fact I think Sir Pterry sometimes does, but his charming voice makes it palatable. The voice is the entire key to this trick; the author has to be entertaining, but has to do that while actually saying something. It would be easy, and bad, to lapse into rambling authorial digressions that do nothing to serve the story.

2) Quick Jokes. I found many instances where Sir Pterry carried one character's POV through an entire scene, *except* for a one-sentence excursion from their perspective for the sake of a quick joke.

Vimes decides to go to bed. We get one funny sentence that mentions him snoring, then he's woken up and we're back in his POV again.

Gaspode is talking to a werewolf. We get one sentence revealing what the werewolf thinks of Gaspode (it's not flattering), then we're back to Gaspode's POV.

So apparently, in writing humor in omni POV, it's permissible to make very short POV breaks if and only if they are funny.

In fact, it would be difficult to make these kind of jokes in tight third. The shift of POV appears to be what makes this kind of humor possible. They say that omni POV is the natural perspective for humor writing; I wonder if this is the reason.

3) Subtle shifts. This is the one that puzzles me. In many scenes, Sir Pterry will begin with one character's POV, but end the scene in another character's POV. The transition is subtle, and I can feel the master's pen at work even if I don't understand why he's doing it. My best guess is that it's for expediency -- often the characters go separate ways, and the narrative wants to follow the second character, and rather than put a scene break in the middle of a continuous period of time he just smoothly works us out of one POV and into another.

I think, but am not sure, that he uses cinematic POV as the transition between characters. He steps out of character #1 and into a POV where we only see what can be seen, no internal monologues. Then he slides us into character #2.

The subtle POV shift is not done for humor value. I think it's just a tool in the Omni POV toolbox, and Sir Pterry decided to use it since he was in Omni POV anyway.

It worries me that for a lesser author -- namely me -- someone might label this POV shifting as head-hopping. Perhaps the fact that the transition is subtle, and that he never shifts more than once per scene, is the key to keep it from being confusing to the reader.

Well, that's what I'm discovering about omniscient POV. Thought I'd share it...and invite you all to poke holes in my research and explain to me where I might have it wrong. :) I'm still trying to figure this out, and research is better when it's peer reviewed.
 

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
16,767
Reaction score
4,662
Location
Scotland
What do you mean by 'get an omniscient look at the landscape with no fixed POV at all? It's omniscient - it's the omniscient narrator's view.
 

RemusShepherd

Banned
Flounced
VPXI
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
896
Reaction score
112
Age
58
Location
Midwest
Website
remus-shepherd.livejournal.com
What do you mean by 'get an omniscient look at the landscape with no fixed POV at all? It's omniscient - it's the omniscient narrator's view.

I meant with no character's POV. Omniscient POV -- at least how Sir Pterry usually uses it -- is tight third person POV with occasional excursions outside. But you're right, those outside excursions are the narrator's perspective.
 

Phaeal

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
9,232
Reaction score
1,898
Location
Providence, RI
Nice analysis and presentation of several omniscient techniques. I agree that the comic and its boon companion the ironic are often well-served by the use of an omniscient viewpoint -- one suitably comic and ironic itself.

For me, the critical difference between badly done third person multiple (marked by headhopping) and true omniscient is that you DO have an all-seeing narrator with an identifiable voice and attitude. That narrator controls all, and his job is to do it so seamlessly that the fictive garment doesn't scratch at the reader's skin.

Hey, what's the use of knowing all if you're so bland we can't ever hear you? Camera eye viewpoint, sometimes misnamed omniscient, is part of the technique of the true omniscient, as you point out. But on its own, it only sees and hears all.* It has no access to the minds of the characters, nor to godly or puppeteer musings of its own.


* I guess a camera could also smell and even taste, after a fashion, producing the fabled Smellovision. ;)
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,313
Try the Harry Potter books. J. K. Rowling is one of the few writers who seems to understand what omniscient is and isn't.
 

Phaeal

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
9,232
Reaction score
1,898
Location
Providence, RI
Rowling does do omniscient well, as in the openings of Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone, Goblet of Fire, Half-Blood Prince, and Deathly Hallows. However, most of the time she sticks very closely and very effectively to Harry's POV.
 

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
9,090
Reaction score
2,165
Location
Lost Angeles
The other thing Terry Pratchett has going for himself is an engaging and unique storytelling voice. Read other funny fantasy and it's easy to see that nobody can do a voice like him. Closest would probably be Douglas Adams, who also does 3rd omni with shifting viewpoints and fascinating narrator voice. (And if you read the opening pages of the Hitchhiker's Guide book that Eoin Colfer wrote recently, you can see just how much Colfer can't do Adams' voice, despite being an accomplished writer of funny fantasy himself.) Take away that great voice and the book is pretty meh.
 

RemusShepherd

Banned
Flounced
VPXI
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
896
Reaction score
112
Age
58
Location
Midwest
Website
remus-shepherd.livejournal.com
Douglas Adams is another author I've thought about, although I haven't dug up his books from the back of my shelf yet.

Adams, going just by my memory, did somewhat longer POV breaks for a quick joke. The classic whale and bowl of petunias bit was several paragraphs long, as I recall.

I also don't recall Adams ever performing that subtle shift in POV from one character to another through a scene...but then, that technique is *supposed* to be invisible if you're not looking for it, so I may have just missed him using it.
 

blacbird

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
36,987
Reaction score
6,159
Location
The right earlobe of North America
Pratchett and Adams are humorists/satirists, and Rowling uses more than a little humor in her books. In general, I think comedic work gets a little more leeway with POV than do non-comedic works, simply because you can play with POV for humorous effect. That's harder to make work effectively in some other genres/styles.

caw
 

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
4,776
Reaction score
417
Thackery does great third omni in Vanity Fair.
 

RemusShepherd

Banned
Flounced
VPXI
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
896
Reaction score
112
Age
58
Location
Midwest
Website
remus-shepherd.livejournal.com
In general, I think comedic work gets a little more leeway with POV than do non-comedic works, simply because you can play with POV for humorous effect.

I think you've got it the wrong way around, actually. Writing comedy does not permit you to play around with POV. Playing with POV allows you to do comedy. Omniscient POV allows for comedic effects that are nearly impossible in other perspectives.

This is even pointed to by the definition of the Shakespearean 'comedy': A light story in which characters misrepresent themselves to each other. That kind of mistaken identity plot is much more difficult if done in tight third. Other comedic techniques, like the nonsequitur joke we've mentioned above, also require omniscient perspective.

I'm not saying that you can't do comedy in tight third, nor does every omniscient story have to be funny. But omni lends itself to comedy, it fits.
 

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
4,776
Reaction score
417
Definitely in satire you want third omni, unless you're doing a spoof.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,313
Rowling does do omniscient well, as in the openings of Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone, Goblet of Fire, Half-Blood Prince, and Deathly Hallows. However, most of the time she sticks very closely and very effectively to Harry's POV.

But she uses omni, even when sticking to Harry's POV. Omni does not mean you get to head-hop all over the place, or that you aren't writing omni if you only have one POV character, and Rowling seems to be one of the few writers who understands this.

Omni is not how many POV characters you jump in and out of, too much jumping in and out is bad oin any POV, it's about distance.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,313
I've found good satire, good spoofs, and good parodies come in every POV, and one is not better than the other. I tend to prefer first person in most, but a parody is best done using the same POV as the work being parodied.
 

defyalllogic

i'm a girl. (i have tendonitis)
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
1,454
Reaction score
164
Location
Massachusetts
i don't think anyone will accuse you of being anything if it feels well done. the harry potter books and terry prattchett's books are engaging so however it's done it just works. if you make it work no one will care HOW you made it work.
 

Caitlin Black

Wild one
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
44,834
Reaction score
2,929
Age
42
Location
The exact centre of all of existence
My first book was omni satire. I tried emulating Douglas Adams, even though I was writing fantasy and he wrote sci-fi, but then I hadn't read any Pratchett at that point. I have now, and now I'm at a loss as to whether or not I've done it well enough...

Damn the greats! How dare they raise the bar for us? :)
 

SPMiller

Prodigiously Hanged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
11,525
Reaction score
1,988
Age
43
Location
Dallas
Website
seanpatrickmiller.com
Gardner argued omniscient viewpoint works only with appropriate control over "psychological distance" from the characters.

He also argued with no qualification whatsoever that any first-person narrative is inherently "sappy", so take his argument as you will.
 

blacbird

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
36,987
Reaction score
6,159
Location
The right earlobe of North America
Gardner argued omniscient viewpoint works only with appropriate control over "psychological distance" from the characters.

He also argued with no qualification whatsoever that any first-person narrative is inherently "sappy", so take his argument as you will.

I've read Gardner's book, and it's a mixture of astute commentary and complete hogwash, as in his view about first-person narrative. Oh, the poor misguided "sappy" novelists:

Mark Twain
Charles Dickens
Laurence Sterne
Henry Fielding
Joseph Conrad
John Irving
Anthony Burgess
Philip Roth
. . .

And unless I'm disremembering, Gardner's best-known (and best) novel, Grendel, is written in first-person POV.

caw
 

Tracy

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
348
Reaction score
107
Location
Ireland
Excellent post Remus - thank you so much for that.

You know, I HATE Omni, hate it hate it hate it :( I won't even read a book with it.

But get this - as an ardent fan of Pratchett (LOL at Sir Pterry!), I never even noticed that he was using Omni. I was so sucked into the story and delighted by the quality of the writing and the humour and the whole shebang ... I never even noticed **she whispers to herself in awe**. Just shows how masterfully he does it. I shall go and get a book of his now and TRY to read it analytically, although I know it'll be hard not to be sucked into the story again.

Thanks also to you Remus, for pointing out how well Pratchett does author intrusion, and how it's almost like he and the reader (me, if I'm reading) are enjoying a joke together about the story. It gives a lovely intimacy.

The man is a genius.
 

Phaeal

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
9,232
Reaction score
1,898
Location
Providence, RI
But she uses omni, even when sticking to Harry's POV. Omni does not mean you get to head-hop all over the place, or that you aren't writing omni if you only have one POV character, and Rowling seems to be one of the few writers who understands this.

Omni is not how many POV characters you jump in and out of, too much jumping in and out is bad oin any POV, it's about distance.

In what way is she using an omniscient viewpoint in the Harry POV sections? Examples, please.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.