How much do you think when writing?

[orangejuice]

When you're writing, how much do you think about what you're doing? For example, you may 'know it all' when it comes to the do's and don'ts of writing, but how much do you actually think about all of that when you're 'in the zone'?

Also, I'm wondering whether there's any point to telling someone 'this is how to write a novel'. I mean, sure, the list of do's and don'ts, the technical stuff with writing can be taught. But do you think being able to write/create a story is something that can be taught?

[Vagrantstory]

Hey i definitely don't, i just sprawl whatever is in my mind onto the page and then go back and fix it. That said i am new to creative writing and i would say my knowledge of 'the rules' is pretty poor. When your 'in the zone' though i would say its the words and ideas that matter not their literary correctness.

I think you can try and teach what makes a good book, i know i have read 'how to' articles but if there was a code for how to write the best book, or how to write a perfect song, everyone would do it. However you could say if you practice and learn hard enough you will produce something 'good' in the end. Argh i'm getting lost..

Maybe writing a good story can be taught, but not creating one.. Yes that sounds good, i have firmly positioned one buttock either side of the fence.

A

[orangejuice]

Yes that sounds good, i have firmly positioned one buttock either side of the fence.

Sounds comfy.

[thethinker42]

When you're writing, how much do you think about what you're doing? For example, you may 'know it all' when it comes to the do's and don'ts of writing, but how much do you actually think about all of that when you're 'in the zone'?

I don't think about it much at all. I spend most of my writing time in the zone...the technical stuff is pretty much second nature now, and what I don't do automatically, I can fix when I edit. During the actual writing process, though, I'm thinking only of the characters and the story.

Also, I'm wondering whether there's any point to telling someone 'this is how to write a novel'. I mean, sure, the list of do's and don'ts, the technical stuff with writing can be taught. But do you think being able to write/create a story is something that can be taught?

Abso-frickin'-lutely. I've read countless books, talked to writers, read voraciously, spent a lot of time here on AW, etc., all in the name of learning to write. I've always had a drive to write, I've always wanted to tell stories, but hadn't a clue how. I needed to learn about tension, conflict, character development, foreshadowing, avoiding coincidence/deus ex machina, listening to my characters instead of shoehorning them into a plot/outline, etc. Looking at some of my earlier failures attempts at writing compared to what I produce now, I'd say it most certainly can be taught.

[orangejuice]

Looking at some of my earlier failures attempts at writing compared to what I produce now, I'd say it most certainly can be taught.

I'd agree with you on this one... some of my earlier stuff is really cringe-inducing. XD Thinking about it now, being on this forum, reading books, searching the web etc has all contributed to my growth as a writer. I think it can be taught... but I don't think the 'bug' for writing can be taught. Not everyone has a strong desire to write.

[kaitie]

I definitely think writing skills can be taught. I'd also say that there's no one way to do anything, but there are definitely tips you can learn to improve your skills. But the actual process TT42 uses, for instance, is no doubt really different from my own.

Anyway, I don't think as much about technical aspects of writing as I go. I do sometimes stop and deliberate over a word or phrase, particularly with the current narrator I have. I often have to stop and remind myself that he would say it differently than I would.

I do a ton of head-writing, though. Before I ever even pick up a pen I've usually figured out pretty much exactly what's going to happen in the scene and how most of it's worded.

[dpaterso]

How much do you think when writing?
Too much! I clog my own pipes with thought debris until it backs up and I get trapped in picky edit hell.

-Derek

[thethinker42]

But the actual process TT42 uses, for instance, is no doubt really different from my own.

Anything that isn't my way is the wrong way.

Just so you know.

[shaldna]

I just write.

I don't think about rules because there aren't any aside from basic grammatical ones, and I'm too busy concentrating on what I am writing to worry about a technical side to the craft.

[sheadakota]

During my first drafts I don't think, I just write- its one big word vomit. I think during edits.

Yes the mechanics of writing can be taught- my early stuff was pure undiluted dreck, then I learned how to contrsuct a manuscript.

But I have to say I don't think the art of writing is something you can teach-anyone can write a perfect manuscript but not everyone can breath life into it-

[Becky Black]

I'm usually only thinking consciously about a couple of "issues" at a time, bad habits say or problems I've noticed recently. I can't think about every single craft thing AND the plot AND the characters all at the same time! But I hope that all the problems I've worked on previously I'm now avoiding unconsciously, because I've absorbed the solution.

I think this is why writing never seems to get easier for me even as I get better at it. In fact it gets harder from the days when I was just blithely sitting down and piling up the words with no clue about how many things I was doing wrong!

It also makes a difference whether I'm writing or editing. Very different frames of mind for me there.

[hannah_92]

I just sit down, start writing and edit it later. Although for me, finding the time to write is probably the most difficult part. The art of writing can be taught (which is why I joined AW in the first place) but a person has to want to write to be able to write. If they've got no interest in what they're doing or are just writing as a way to make money then they haven't got a chance in hell of making it work. This is what annoys me about many of these big shot celebs who "write" a book. Many of them haven't taken the time to sit down and think about their book but get it published anyway just because of their name...sorry about the rant. :)

[Alpha Echo]

I don't think toooo much during my first draft. Occassionally, I'll have to stop to contemplate what's happening and what should happen next, but mostly, I just write.

The revision(s) is(are) when I do most of my thinking.

[AdamH]

I hardly think at all (at least not consciously) when I'm in the zone. It's when I get bogged down and threaten to get writer's block when I start using my noggin.


But do you think being able to write/create a story is something that can be taught?

YES!

The best explanation I've read is the one from Stephen King's On Writing. I'm going to paraphrase because I don't remember the exact quote.

-You can't teach a bad writer to be a competent writer but you can teach a competent writer to be a good writer and a good writer to be a great writer. However, you can't teach a great writer to be a once-in-a-lifetime writer.

[C.M.C.]

If I tried to think about anything besides what word comes next, I'd never get anything done. Thinking usually makes things harder, not easier.

[shaldna]

I think in terms of the technical side of writing, that should be second nature. I mean, I don't have to stop and wonder if something is gramatically correct, or if I've misued a word. I should know.

The building blocks you are talking about are just that, and they should equip you with the ability to tackle the creative side of things without having to concentrate too much on the technical side.

[Midnight Star]

Believe it or not, I don't actually *think* while writing. I just let my creativity take over my hands and they write.

[Ken]

... when I write I try to do what feels right for the story and characters without paying much thought to whether what I am doing is in keeping with conventional rules and guidelines for writing.

[sunandshadow]

I think constantly about what I want to happen next and what the characters are currently thinking/feeling and why. After all, that IS the story, would be hard to tell it without thinking about it. Other than that, I occasionally grope for a word or sentence structure, but that's it. Once in a while I may recall a similar story I read or watched, to think about how some other author tackled the same problem. Anything else is a distraction which is inappropriate to be thinking about during the first draft.

[shadowwalker]

I'm one of those idiots who edits and researches as I write. The editing part because my mother was a school-teacher and she used to help with my homework - it became second-nature. The researching part because I have to know about the new stuff my characters drag me into so I can get them out of it. :tongue So yeah, there's a lot of "non-creative" thinking on my part. (But less editing after :D)

As to whether anyone can be taught to write - I don't think that's true. You can teach people grammar, and you can teach people about phrasing and pacing etc etc. But there a lot of people who - driven to write or not - just are not story-tellers. They just don't get it. So I guess I agree with AdamH's quote from King - you can't teach a bad writer to be a competent one.

[seun]

I find if I'm not thinking a great deal about what I'm writing, then it's a sign the writing is going well.

[incognitopress]

I agree with shadowwalker - there are some parts to writing that cannot be taught. Most of the craft side of things is teachable, depending on one's natural ability of course, much the same as learning how to sing or play an instrument can only get you so far depending on your own inner drive and a modicrum of natural ability.
But I will never be able to play the tuba, or read music, for example. God knows, I've tried to play lots of instruments in my day, but when it comes to performing music, I am functionally illiterate. At least I've realized my weaknesses and aren't actively trying to join a symphony, lol....

Writing my book was an instinctive drive for me. I clear my mind of all thoughts, and then the words just pour right in. I don't know where they come from. It just happens. Honestly, if I had to outline the plot, artificially create tension, actively think of a twist....I'd shoot myself. But guns are banned in Canada, so I've been spared. :P

[Jamesaritchie]

I'm not sure how to answer this question. Anything can betaught, but not everyone can learn enough to take advantage of what's taught.

Writing can certainly be taught. School kids learn how to write all the time. Telling a story can also be taught. Anyone can learn to tell a story.

But it's a matter of degree. Math can be taught, as well, and anyone can learn basic math, but darned few can become a theoretical mathematician, no matter how long they go to school, or how hard they work.

We all have a limit, and that limit is not the same for one as for another. There are those who, with no training, no real education, who have never read a book about writing, who have never studied the rules or guidelines, just sit down and start writing publishable material right from the beginning.

People may be equal in rights, but all people are certainly not equal in ability, whether that ability is mental or physical. Some people are simply smarter than others, and some peopel simply have a lot more innate talent than others. Half the people in the world are below average, and average itself isn't terribly bright. That's just how it is.

Talent is the same. Some have a bunch, some have none, and most fall somewhere between.

If writing well enough to be published could be taught, it would be, but it isn't.

There are always those who, with no training, little formal education, who have read no how-to books, who have spent no time on writing forums asking question, but who just sit down and start writing pubishable fiction right from the start. They can't be thinking about all the rules or guidelines becaus ethey don't know them. They can't be wondering if you really should avoid adverbs, avoid opening with dialogue, etc. They never heard anything about such matters. But they know how to tell a godo story.

And there are hundreds of thousands who do read all the how-to books, who thrive on forums, who have tons of education, who take writing classes, who may have an MFA, who write every darned day, who may have ten novels and five hundred short stories behind them, but who simply never, ever reach the point where they're any good at all. The tenth novel that write is as bad or worse than the first, and the five hundreth short story is no closer to being pubishable than the first.

If the ability to tell a good story, and to fill that story with good characters, could be taught, you'd think this group would have a very, very high prcentage of successful writers, but they do not.

You see such writers in slush piles all the time. You hate to say any individual has no chance, but you can usually tell early on. Their stories come in month after month, year after year, and they still read like the first attempt of a high school kid.

Teaching only helps those who have the ability to learn, and we each have an upper limit of what we can learn, just as we each have different levels of talent. Most have no more ability to learn how to write publishable fiction that they have the ability to become theoretical mathematicians.

Anyway, do I think as I write? Yes, of course. But not about rules or guidelines or adverbs or anything else of that nature. I believe good writing happens when you're in the zone, just as great sports plays happen when the player is in the zone. You know what you're supposed to do, and you just do whatever it is you're naturally good at doing. If you have to think about it, you probably aren't very good at it.

[Margarita Skies]

I don't think about it much, I just write what comes to my mind as I'm writing the scene. :D

[Shadow_Ferret]

I just write.

I worry about the rules when I edit.

[Lady Ice]

I think about how I can best phrase a sentence but apart from that, I don't think much about rules when I'm actually writing.

[kposa]

But I have to say I don't think the art of writing is something you can teach-anyone can write a perfect manuscript but not everyone can breath life into it-


This. What I wanted to say.

And I'm learning that the art of writing = voice. Craft can be learned, but voice (art) must be nurtured and developed by the writer from a seed that's already in him.

[scarletpeaches]

Thinking stops me getting to 'the end' quickly, so I do as little of that nonsense as possible.

And anyone whose writing process is different from mine is doin it rong.

[gothicangel]

Maybe it's because I'm writing crime fiction, but I'm always thinking the next sentence/paragraph/sentence ahead.

With clues, it has to be that tight.

[Tracey Bentley]

I'll admit to thinking far too much while I'm writing. I've never been one to make things easy on myself.

[scope]

Maybe it's because I write nonfiction, but I'm always thinking ahead.

[Linda Adams]

When you're writing, how much do you think about what you're doing? For example, you may 'know it all' when it comes to the do's and don'ts of writing, but how much do you actually think about all of that when you're 'in the zone'?

Not at all, and truthfully, not even when I revise. It's only what works. I started writing when I was eight and learned from reading books. I don't think I saw much in the way of how-to books until I was an adult. So a lot of how I write was shaped by the novels I was reading (it's gotten me into trouble, too. I'm evidently a pretty big rule-breaker, even in terms of writers who break rules).


Also, I'm wondering whether there's any point to telling someone 'this is how to write a novel'. I mean, sure, the list of do's and don'ts, the technical stuff with writing can be taught. But do you think being able to write/create a story is something that can be taught?

When I was in high school, I went to guitar lessons. I learned how to recognize the notes and where they were on the strings. But no amount of teaching me the techniques was going to make me a good player. I lacked an ear for music, and I also lacked rhythm. Writing is a lot like that. Techniques can be learned, but there are other elements that can't be taught--they already have to be there.

And there isn't any one way to say "This is how to write a novel." It is uniquely different for every person. Run a search on the forums, and you'll find this question gets asked--and all the answers are different. Some people need the structure of an outline, and others just jump right in. Because it is a creative process to start with, it's a function of the individual person.

[Matera the Mad]

I try to make sense.

[friendlyhobo]

I do a ton of head-writing, though. Before I ever even pick up a pen I've usually figured out pretty much exactly what's going to happen in the scene and how most of it's worded.

This for sure.
"Can you do something for me?" says friend, family or roommate.
"I'm busy."
"You're staring at a wall."
"I'm writing."

[orangejuice]

"Can you do something for me?" says friend, family or roommate.
"I'm busy."
"You're staring at a wall."
"I'm writing."

XD
Me too. People tend to get a bit freaked out when they think I'm ogling them.
I've spent... ohh, about four years 'head-writing' and getting characters/setting/plot together. The good thing is that now that I'm actually writing, it's really easy, and the words just flow. :)

[Ibelong]

I definitely think writing skills can be taught..



Well, I'm going to go out on a limb here and disagree. I think that writing--the love of, the drive, the creativity, ability to come up with stories, etc--is all gift. However, this gift is nothing without discipline. Saying you can teach someone to write, is like saying you can teach someone to draw. Sure, you can learn the mechanics of how to draw, but it doesn't mean that you will be any good at it.
Even within artwork, there are different types of artists. Comic book artists are a completely different animal in comparison to a lot of contemporary artists. And both have value, both are different gifts, but equally impressive in their own right. Many contemporary artists could never be comic book illustrators and vise versa.
So, for me, I think that the gift of writing is there, naturally and its not something that can be acquired. Rather it is discipline that we acquire that makes what we write, better.

[Ibelong]

I'm not sure how to answer this question. Anything can betaught, but not everyone can learn enough to take advantage of what's taught.


I don't know...but I think you answered it pretty well. JMHO of course ;)

[scarletpeaches]

You can teach someone to write technically well. You can't teach them to want to write passionately.

[Torrance]

I think about what I am writing way too much. Case in point, I am here, looking at what other people think about the process!

[Satsya]

When you're writing, how much do you think about what you're doing? For example, you may 'know it all' when it comes to the do's and don'ts of writing, but how much do you actually think about all of that when you're 'in the zone'?

I think of nothing 'in the zone'. Well, not consciously. But I'm wherever my characters are, next to them, watching them talk and interact. Once that connection breaks and I'm back in front of my laptop again, I'm out of the zone.

Frankly, the more I'm focused on the technical aspects of my writing, the worse it is and the less I want to be creative.


Also, I'm wondering whether there's any point to telling someone 'this is how to write a novel'. I mean, sure, the list of do's and don'ts, the technical stuff with writing can be taught. But do you think being able to write/create a story is something that can be taught?

I think creativity can be taught to an extent. It takes effort and patience, and ultimately it's up to the person you're teaching on whether they're willing to do whatever it takes to broaden their thought process.

By the way, orangejuice, you're a troper if I ever saw one. *cough*

[milly]

I think...but then I write...sometimes the two work together, most of the time...not...I think AFTER I have done the writing...I tend to think more when I edit and re-write

[ebennet68]

I was reading on a different thread the other day (sorry, don't remember who it was), but they said that you need to write the first draft with your heart and the revision(s) with your head. Revising is where I really think critically about what I'm doing. The more I write, the better my first drafts become and the necessary thought that as a beginner was more visible in the revision process becomes more evident as I write first drafts. Does that make sense? Maybe I need to revise:-)

[ebennet68]

You can teach someone to write technically well. You can't teach them to want to write passionately.

Amen!

[aadams73]

I'm always thinking, although sometimes I let my fingers run the show.