Bad Novel = Bad Agent?

[knight_tour]

Does reading a really bad novel color your opinion of the agent who subbed it? I'm not certain yet for me, but I did recently pick up a book just because I had been reading an agent's blog and the agent kept raving about her client. I tried the book and it was awful. It does make me wonder whether this would be a good agent for me. Maybe it makes them a great agent, because they can sell even a bad novel?

[Viktor Night]

Maybe you don't like it but chances are there's enough of an audience that does.

I've read a few wildly successful authors that I just couldn't get into because I thought their stories weren't interesting or in one case I thought the writing was childish. They may not be for me but they're for someone.

[knight_tour]

Maybe you don't like it but chances are there's enough of an audience that does.

I've read a few wildly successful authors that I just couldn't get into because I thought their stories weren't interesting or in one case I thought the writing was childish. They may not be for me but they're for someone.

But there's a difference between a story that simply isn't your cup of tea and one that is written quite badly.

[The Kidd]

Well, look at it this way. If the agent was able to sell a bad novel then they must be a pretty good agent right? Just my .02. The agent is going to rave about the books they are trying to sell to publishers, it's just the way it is.

I mean..say you go to a FORD dealership to buy a car. Is the sales person going to tell you it's a bum car or an 'ok' car? Nope. He is going to tell you it's a wonderful car because HE is selling it.

[DeadlyAccurate]

Disliking something does not mean it's bad; it means it's not to your taste. And if your tastes don't mesh with the agent's, that probably means you wouldn't be a good match.

[jvc]

It's not just the agent who thought the book can sell, though. The publisher obviously thought it could too, or else they wouldn't have bought the book no matter how good the agent was at pitching it. There are books that have won major prizes that I didn't like. But doesn't mean others felt the same way as me. Others must have liked them. Those who made the books the bestsellers, and the committee who picked them for the prize. Horses for courses and all that.

[Jamesaritchie]

Chances are it wasn't a bad novel at all, just one you really didn't like.

There are writers I just can't stand to read, but they please enough readers to consitently land high on the bestseller lists. If I put on my editor's hat, I, too, can see why most readers like the novels.

[knight_tour]

Disliking something does not mean it's bad; it means it's not to your taste. And if your tastes don't mesh with the agent's, that probably means you wouldn't be a good match.

Actually, it was exactly the type of story I love. It's just that the author kept switching POV from 1st to 3rd and back all the time. The writing style itself was annoying also, but I can usually plow through that.

[Toothpaste]

Actually, it was exactly the type of story I love. It's just that the author kept switching POV from 1st to 3rd and back all the time. The writing style itself was annoying also, but I can usually plow through it.


Sounds like the only thing you might have liked about this story was the plot. Clearly it wasn't the type of story you love as everything about the style you disliked. A book is so much more than what it is about. At any rate, personally I adore shifting POVs (my fav book of the last year went between 2nd person present, 3rd person past), as you can see, taste varies.

The thing is, obviously you didn't like the book which is cool. But others liked it enough not only so much that it got an agent but also published. That should be a hint that the agent isn't a bad one at all but totally understands his/her market.

Now of course you are under no obligation to submit to this agent if you really don't share the agent's taste.

[third person]

I want Miss Meyers' agent. Cos I'm tellin' ya. Bad book, but OODLES of riches. And I'm all about the riches. (In reality it's all about the fulfillment I get from the craft. It's all I've got. But still--it would be nice to have a Richard Meier home while I practice said fulfilling craft.)

[ChristineR]

If it sold, then at least an editor thought it had a redeeming feature. How many copies did this book sell? How were the reviews? I can certainly understand you're not wanting to name the actual book.

Smeyer is an awesome writer, based on her sales. Whatever else she does wrong, she must be doing some things right. Any agent would be thrilled to work with smeyer, even if it some people wonder about her taste.

[Cyia]

I can think of a few books that I hated, but were sold for highly lucrative contracts. This would mean that the agent is a good one IMO; she did her job and she's on my short list of "favorite" agents. Her job is to get the best contract for her client.

The agent you want is one who believes in the work of her clients and works as hard as she can for them.

[defyalllogic]

I want Miss Meyers' agent. Cos I'm tellin' ya. Bad book, but OODLES of riches.
this.

and mr. pattison's/ k. stewart's agent apparently you can star in a movie without needing to be able to act. I want in!

[knight_tour]

I can think of a few books that I hated, but were sold for highly lucrative contracts. This would mean that the agent is a good one IMO; she did her job and she's on my short list of "favorite" agents. Her job is to get the best contract for her client.

The agent you want is one who believes in the work of her clients and works as hard as she can for them.

Yeah, I mentioned that in my original post. It just made me question the agent's judgement, though. It may not be a bad thing if the agent can sell just about anything.

BTW, it is a rare occasion that I won't read a book all the way through. I read close to 100% of books I start all the way. It takes something truly attrocious on several levels to make me stop reading.

[IdiotsRUs]

Depends what you call bad writing. Changing tenses isn't bad writing( well, if unless mid scene....) it's a stylistic choice you happen to not like.

[Danthia]

Not a bit. Everyone has their own tastes. If you read several books from that agent, and you don't care for any of them, there's a good chance that's not the right agent for you. You probably have different views on what makes a "good" book. And the editors they work with also have different views, since they bought the books you didn't like. But it doesn't make the agent bad just because you don't like what they like. Just look for agents who take on the books you enjoy.

[kangolNcurlz]

I want Miss Meyers' agent. Cos I'm tellin' ya. Bad book, but OODLES of riches.

This shows how subjective the words "bad book" are. I liked Twilight and thought it was a cute love story. I'd reread it if I didn't have Cormack McCarthy calling my name.

Overall, if I read a book that I thought was bad then I'd wonder 1) what the author was thinking writing it, and then 2) what the publisher was thinking publishing it. The agent wouldn't enter my thoughts, because s/he is doing what agents do - sell books to publishers. But, just because I don't like a book doesn't mean it's truly bad, it's just not to my liking, for whatever reason.

The only time I'd think about the agent is to wonder if my book was within her taste, but I'd still sub to her and let her decide.

[Jamesaritchie]

I want Miss Meyers' agent. Cos I'm tellin' ya. Bad book, but OODLES of riches. And I'm all about the riches. (In reality it's all about the fulfillment I get from the craft. It's all I've got. But still--it would be nice to have a Richard Meier home while I practice said fulfilling craft.)



Bad book? Do you mean Twilight? Like hell, it's bad. It may not be written as well as some other books, but it tells one hell of a good story, and has some great characters and dialogue.

If you can write a book like Twilight, you can get any agent you want. A pet poodle could sell Twilight to a major publisher.

[jana13k]

If you don't like the books the agent reps, the agent may also not be interested in you. Some agents (mine included) will only rep work they personally love and I know my agent has referred work she was certain would sell to other agents because she wants to represent "careers" not books. So if she doesn't want to read what you write for the next twenty years, then she might not want to represent you.

Try reading some other books by authors that agent reps, but the fact that the agent sold it and a publisher bought it speaks loudly to something being right - if only a highly marketable premise.

[Toothpaste]

Bad book? Do you mean Twilight? Like hell, it's bad. It may not be written as well as some other books, but it tells one hell of a good story, and has some great characters and dialogue.


I'd argue though that that point is subjective (I for one so utterly and completely disagree that the characters and dialogue are great). But the fact that it is subjective demonstrates how one person's bad book is another's great book. In this case, many many many others' great book.

Because I, for example, think there is nothing good about Twilight (I could barely get through it and only did because I was starting to write YA and wanted know what the fuss was about), doesn't mean that it isn't a good book to someone else, worthy of getting an agent and published.

[Nateskate]

Apart from the issue of good and bad taste, you want to find an agent with a history of recent and consistent sales in your Genre, because the sale of your book is the issue.

If you have the choice of many agents, you are fortunate and can be as picky as you choose.

[shaldna]

Bad book? Do you mean Twilight? Like hell, it's bad. It may not be written as well as some other books, but it tells one hell of a good story, and has some great characters and dialogue.

If you can write a book like Twilight, you can get any agent you want. A pet poodle could sell Twilight to a major publisher.


So domestic abuse is the 'in' thing right now?

[shaldna]

Personally I don't think you can judge an agent by their writers. Judge and agent by the sales and the deals they make, because that's what really matters.

What you think of their other clients is irrelevant, it's how well the agent is going to work for you that matters.

[Jay Jennings]

Just a quick newbie question -- finding a list of agents is not hard, but how do you find out which agent represented a given book/author? Is it public knowledge that's published somewhere?

Thanks.

Jay Jennings

[shaldna]

Just a quick newbie question -- finding a list of agents is not hard, but how do you find out which agent represented a given book/author? Is it public knowledge that's published somewhere?

Thanks.

Jay Jennings


Often agents will list their clients on their website or blog, or in thier Writers Handbook entry.

Often a writer will thank the agent in their book.

Or you can resort to trusty ol' google and try typing 'Dan Brown Agent' and chances are you'll get a whole load of reference to Heidi Lange.

[Jamesaritchie]

So domestic abuse is the 'in' thing right now?


A story that people want to read is always the "in" thing. Twilight tells one hell of a good story that an amazing number of people not only want to read, but love to death.

[cwfgal]

Yeah, I mentioned that in my original post. It just made me question the agent's judgement, though. It may not be a bad thing if the agent can sell just about anything.

Why don't you question your own judgment instead, or as well? Seriously, I'm not trying to be mean or rude, but why would you assume that it's the agent's tastes that are bad just because you personally don't like a book an agent repped and sold?

Beth

[cwfgal]

So domestic abuse is the 'in' thing right now?

Yep, that must be it. It can't possibly be because the story is one that is beloved and enjoyed by millions of readers. It can't be because Ms. Meyer can actually tell a decent tale and write a decent story. It must be because everyone is really into domestic abuse these days. Sheesh.

Beth

[eurodan49]

De gustibus non est disputandum

[Libbie]

Does reading a really bad novel color your opinion of the agent who subbed it? I'm not certain yet for me, but I did recently pick up a book just because I had been reading an agent's blog and the agent kept raving about her client. I tried the book and it was awful. It does make me wonder whether this would be a good agent for me. Maybe it makes them a great agent, because they can sell even a bad novel?

It would definitely make me feel that they weren't the right agent for me. whether they're "bad," I couldn't say.

[LuckyH]

On a critical writing forum you will always get critical opinions, not always near to those of the average reader, and when someone equates Twilight with a bad book, they really are way off-track with public opinion.

It’s perfectly noble and honest to hold such an opinion, but it’s valueless in any commercial sense. If you write to be published (make money), then it’s your duty to follow the market, to find out what readers want to read, to research an agent’s capabilities before submitting to them. And a million other things, including pencil sharpeners.

There are bad books and bad agents galore and none of them will ever make it into any bestsellers lists.

[a_sharp]

Just a quick newbie question -- finding a list of agents is not hard, but how do you find out which agent represented a given book/author? Is it public knowledge that's published somewhere?

Thanks.

Jay Jennings

Jay, take a look at Jeff Herman's "Book Publishers, Editors & Literary Agents" published each year. Oodles of detail on who's where, what they're looking for, how to submit, web links, and much, much more. It's dictionary-thick and only as up-to-date as the printing date, but a great launching place.

[The Lonely One]

my fav book of the last year went between 2nd person present, 3rd person past

Ooh, are you talking about Arkansas by John Brandon? I loved that book.

[Toothpaste]

Ooh, are you talking about Arkansas by John Brandon? I loved that book.

Actually no, it was called Falling Under by Danielle Younge-Ullman. Fantastic.

[Phaeal]

So domestic abuse is the 'in' thing right now?

Well, domestic abuse in and of itself has nothing to do with whether a book is bad.

[Phaeal]

It would definitely make me feel that they weren't the right agent for me. whether they're "bad," I couldn't say.

Yeah, if the agent consistently chooses books I don't like (and that are dissimilar from mine), I may conclude that this is not the agent for me. ALTHOUGH -- the agent might have very broad tastes and like both the books I don't like and the books I write. Grrr argh. T'is a continuing conundrum.

[shaldna]

On a critical writing forum you will always get critical opinions, not always near to those of the average reader, and when someone equates Twilight with a bad book, they really are way off-track with public opinion.

It’s perfectly noble and honest to hold such an opinion, but it’s valueless in any commercial sense. If you write to be published (make money), then it’s your duty to follow the market, to find out what readers want to read, to research an agent’s capabilities before submitting to them. And a million other things, including pencil sharpeners.

There are bad books and bad agents galore and none of them will ever make it into any bestsellers lists.


This is interesting, andI have to say that I agree with the point you are making.

Personally I hated Twilight, I thought it was badly written, poorly edited and lacking in plot, character and basic grasp of the english language.

HOWEVER, and I think this is important, taste is very subjective, and as we;ve said before on this forum, there are no 'bad' books, just books that aren't to people's personal tastes.

While I dislike the book in quesion, I can appreciate how it appeals to so many people, and from a commercial POV I can understand that. But it doesn't mean I have to like it. It means I simply understand why others do and the shifts in the market.

[lucidzfl]

I swear to god if this disintigrates into another patterson / meyers bitch fest, I'm going to curse up a storm and probably get banned for it...

[nitaworm]

I believe when reading books or looking at any art - everything is a matter of personal opinion and highly subjective. I would definately picked that agent, because if she could sell something I didn't like - she could sell mine.

[shaldna]

I swear to god if this disintigrates into another patterson / meyers bitch fest, I'm going to curse up a storm and probably get banned for it...


Nah, it's all good.

Got that Friday feeling, don't have the urge to be mean.

[shaldna]

I believe when reading books or looking at any art - everything is a matter of personal opinion and highly subjective. .


This.

[knight_tour]

Why don't you question your own judgment instead, or as well? Seriously, I'm not trying to be mean or rude, but why would you assume that it's the agent's tastes that are bad just because you personally don't like a book an agent repped and sold?

Beth

To you it will be subjective, but I have lived long enough to truly trust my taste.

[Greg Wilson]

I believe when reading books or looking at any art - everything is a matter of personal opinion and highly subjective.


So this (http://www.travistea.com/) wouldn't be a bad book, objectively speaking? ;)

I generally agree that much of critical opinion about a book is subjective, but I'd be careful about going too far down the "everything is relative" road. There are some objectively bad books, and the fact that someone could be found (the author's grandmother?) to pretend that a piece of garbage is actually birthday cake doesn't change that fact. Whether Twilight meets that objective definition is another question, I think.

Greg

[LuckyH]

Nah, it's all good.

Got that Friday feeling, don't have the urge to be mean.

That Friday feeling? God, do I remember it. Boy’s night out, a pocket full of money after a hard week’s work, and crumpet all dressed in their finery. Dancing the night away in some dodgy club, with ear-shattering music and a recovery room.

It’s half-past-ten where I am now, there is music, there’s whiskey in the jar, and I’m dreaming of her, the special one. She was Irish, but she’s not here to hold my hand now.

Sorry to be personal, I blame it on Friday night.

[shaldna]

That Friday feeling? God, do I remember it. Boy’s night out, a pocket full of money after a hard week’s work, and crumpet all dressed in their finery. Dancing the night away in some dodgy club, with ear-shattering music and a recovery room.

It’s half-past-ten where I am now, there is music, there’s whiskey in the jar, and I’m dreaming of her, the special one. She was Irish, but she’s not here to hold my hand now.

Sorry to be personal, I blame it on Friday night.


It's all good.

[lucidzfl]

That Friday feeling? God, do I remember it. Boy’s night out, a pocket full of money after a hard week’s work, and crumpet all dressed in their finery. Dancing the night away in some dodgy club, with ear-shattering music and a recovery room.

It’s half-past-ten where I am now, there is music, there’s whiskey in the jar, and I’m dreaming of her, the special one. She was Irish, but she’s not here to hold my hand now.

Sorry to be personal, I blame it on Friday night.

Ack dude. What the fuck. I'm going to go hug my wife now. Thanks asshole.

;)

[ChaosTitan]

Does reading a really bad novel color your opinion of the agent who subbed it?

No, for two reasons.

One, I can tell you the name of the agent of maybe three books/authors, and that's only because I know the authors. When I'm reading a book, the thing furthest from my mind is who the agent was.

Two, my opinion of how "good" or "bad" a novel is is subjective, which is an entirely different thread that we've had way too many times in this forum.

An agent's job is to sell books. If you're reading it, they can obviously do their job.

[OctoberLee]

This topic is interesting to me because I've got a partial out with a agent who reps mostly romance novels/some erotica. And my book definitely does NOT fall into that category, though she accepts young adult fiction/fantasy. So I was thinking, if said agent accepted me (hey don't laugh, it could happen :P), how would I feel about being on the lineup with a hole bunch of romance/erotica authors?

...not too shabby, as long as my book sold...

But I guess if they repped something really atrocious out, I might think twice.

[Ken]

... I guess if the book was really, really bad it would. But I don't think any of the big publishers print books of such sort. Some fly-by-night small presses might. But those books wouldn't be handled by agents in the first place.

So then it goes back to books that are just bad in a subjective sense or in your own eyes, which has already been sufficiently addressed by other posters here. If the agents rep'd 'bad books' or ones that you don't particularly care for, yourself, all that means is that your tastes in novels differs from theirs, which may mean they're not a good fit for you.

That's all that can be surmised. To conclude they're bad agents would be wrong and unwarranted.

[ishtar'sgate]

Does reading a really bad novel color your opinion of the agent who subbed it?
Definitely. Even if it's only bad to me it lets me know we're not on the same wavelength and probably wouldn't work well together.

[shaldna]

So this (http://www.travistea.com/) wouldn't be a bad book, objectively speaking? ;)




Come on, Atlanta Nights was awesome.

Bear in mind that it was written to be bad intentionally.

[Greg Wilson]

Come on, Atlanta Nights was awesome.

Bear in mind that it was written to be bad intentionally.

Yep, exactly my point. If only they knew that they supposedly couldn't write a bad book, even if they tried! ;)

[shaldna]

Yep, exactly my point. If only they knew that they supposedly couldn't write a bad book, even if they tried! ;)


It was an amzing experiement. And still selling well.

[Glenakin]

Does reading a really bad novel color your opinion of the agent who subbed it? I'm not certain yet for me, but I did recently pick up a book just because I had been reading an agent's blog and the agent kept raving about her client. I tried the book and it was awful. It does make me wonder whether this would be a good agent for me. Maybe it makes them a great agent, because they can sell even a bad novel?
Have you read EVERY book by the agent's clients? If you have and they all sucked then you probably don't want to go with the agent. I doubt they all suck though.

An agent repping a book that sucks is like a human being having a bad day. Shit happens. You can't look at one book that didn't work out for you and assume the agent must be rubbish.

And even if you didn't like the book, so what? The publishers bought the book, sold it, and people bought it. Obviously the agent is doing something right and the publishers see something in it.

In the end, it's your book that matters, not the books of the other clients. When people read books they don't think of the publisher or the agent - they think of the author. So, does your book suck? If it doesn't, query it, get published and keep doing what you do and forget about authors who suck.

Bad book? Do you mean Twilight? Like hell, it's bad. It may not be written as well as some other books, but it tells one hell of a good story, and has some great characters and dialogue.

If you can write a book like Twilight, you can get any agent you want. A pet poodle could sell Twilight to a major publisher.
LMAO!

You're a comedian.

[shaldna]

LMAO!

You're a comedian.


word

[ClaudiaGray]

If you are looking for an agent, and you only want to sign with one who has only represented books you loved, and never one you didn't like, I suspect you will be looking for a very long time.

[Jamesaritchie]

Good is subjective, bad is not. Everything isn't subjective, and anyone who has read a slush pile knows there certainly are hundreds of thousands of really, truly, bad manuscripts out there.

But no agent has the power to sell anything. The power is in the buying, not the selling. Pubisher buy what research tells them most readers want to read. No agent can sell what a publisher does not want to buy.

A book is not good or bad because it glorifies abuse, or violence, or anything else. A book is not good or bad because it's pro this or anti that. A book is not good or bad because it has a liberal take, a conservative take, a Christian take, or an athiest take.

A book is not good or bad because any individual love sit or hates it, thinks it's wonderfully written or horribly written, no matter who that individual is. By that reasoning, there wouldn't be a good writer or a good book in the world.

Abook is good because it does the job a book is supposed to do, which is to please lareg number of readers. A book is bad because it fails to do this. A book is great when it continues to please large numbers of readers long after the writer is dead.

There's much silliness about how bestselling books are usually bad, while there are thousands of really good writers who can't get published at all. Both are nonsense.

Bestselling books are good because they do exactly what every book is supposed to do, and those thousands of good writers are hiding their work extremely well. It never shows up in slush piles, online, or anywhere else that I can find.

[lucidzfl]

Good is subjective, bad is not. Everything isn't subjective, and anyone who has read a slush pile knows there certainly are hundreds of thousands of really, truly, bad manuscripts out there.

But no agent has the power to sell anything. The power is in the buying, not the selling. Pubisher buy what research tells them most readers want to read. No agent can sell what a publisher does not want to buy.

A book is not good or bad because it glorifies abuse, or violence, or anything else. A book is not good or bad because it's pro this or anti that. A book is not good or bad because it has a liberal take, a conservative take, a Christian take, or an athiest take.

A book is not good or bad because any individual love sit or hates it, thinks it's wonderfully written or horribly written, no matter who that individual is. By that reasoning, there wouldn't be a good writer or a good book in the world.

Abook is good because it does the job a book is supposed to do, which is to please lareg number of readers. A book is bad because it fails to do this. A book is great when it continues to please large numbers of readers long after the writer is dead.

There's much silliness about how bestselling books are usually bad, while there are thousands of really good writers who can't get published at all. Both are nonsense.

Bestselling books are good because they do exactly what every book is supposed to do, and those thousands of good writers are hiding their work extremely well. It never shows up in slush piles, online, or anywhere else that I can find.

Its amazing how many people are convinced the system is broke when they can't get published. And how angry they are that _insert_talentless_hack's_name is selling zillions!