It's so hard to break in hollywood....

[GonnaBeFamous]

Since the odds are so slim and even if you do sell you probably won't make much money in the long run.... so is everyone here mostly doing it for a hobby to kill time? Does anyone plan to actually make it and live off their screenwriting?

[scripter1]

I plan to sell. All of the scripts I am working on I hope some day will sell.
This is waaaay too stressful to do just for fun, though I sure enjoy it.

I don't believe that I can write professionally as a full time career.

I would, however, like to teach.

[GonnaBeFamous]

I plan to sell. All of the scripts I am working on I hope some day will sell.
This is waaaay too stressful to do just for fun, though I sure enjoy it.

I don't believe that I can write professionally as a full time career.

I would, however, like to teach.

I don't know, i'm sorta doing it for fun at this point. I got 2 scripts ready to go once I'm done with this.

Writing professionally as a career sounds impossible to me. ALl those deadlines for meager pay(if you think 50 to 100K is anything more then chump change then you must livein the ghettos). And the odds of selling your scripts as specs to live off of that sounds impossible. One spec salemight be possible but I think thats as far as most people could even HOPE of getting.

[icerose]

My career is my writing. I plan on selling both my novels and my scripts. It's the best thing I can do right now with being a stay-at-home mom and I love it anyway and plan on doing it my entire life. I could not write this much every day if it was just for fun.

[StephieM]

I have been dreaming of becoming a writer ever since I was a little girl, that might sound cheesy, but I'm not about to give up because the odds say I'm not going to make it. If anything, that gives me a reason to push myself further. I don't give up, I don't give in, and I never say won't or can't. The only odds are my odds.

Steph

[JustinoXXV]

For those career screenwriters, and those established tv writers, they are not making chump change.

Spec sales to studios, especially if the screenwriter has written hits before, are in the neighborhood of a million or more.

Also, there are writers who act as producers or as directors (Quentin Tarantino, Joss Whedon). It's really rather common for established screenwriters.

Zak Penn, David Hayter, Simon Kinburg, and other people (these guys write movies like Super Man and X-Men) make millions on their writing assignments.

As for $50,000 or $100,000 being chump change, I suspect that's more money than you make a year Gonna. In fact, I suspect you've yet to earn that much money in your life. When you make statements like calling that amount of money chump change and saying that anyone who disagrees is ghetto, you deservedly make people lose respect for you.

Your ability to put your foot in your mouth will likely guarantee that even if you do get in touch with a studio exec or a producer, you'll likely say something like this that will cause the person not to close any deal with you.

[okaybrass]

Zing?

[Boo_Radley]

I always wanted to be an English teacher. Funny how things work out when the Veteran Affairs office "loses" your service records, and thus any trace that they owed you the GI Bill and Army College Fund.

I chanced upon screenwriting when an old roommate brought home Syd Fields' book, "Screenplay." I read it, thought, "Hey, I love movies, I think I can write one." So, I did my studying, read every script I could get my hands on and every screenwriting book I could find, and once I was confident I'd memorized everything, I started writing and have been doing so for about three years.

I don't really have an interest in being a "writer for hire", though. It may sound unrealistic, but I'd rather just option or sell the random spec script for some decent bread, put myself through school and get that whole "English teacher" thing happening lol

[GonnaBeFamous]

For those career screenwriters, and those established tv writers, they are not making chump change.

Spec sales to studios, especially if the screenwriter has written hits before, are in the neighborhood of a million or more.

Also, there are writers who act as producers or as directors (Quentin Tarantino, Joss Whedon). It's really rather common for established screenwriters.

Zak Penn, David Hayter, Simon Kinburg, and other people (these guys write movies like Super Man and X-Men) make millions on their writing assignments.

As for $50,000 or $100,000 being chump change, I suspect that's more money than you make a year Gonna. In fact, I suspect you've yet to earn that much money in your life. When you make statements like calling that amount of money chump change and saying that anyone who disagrees is ghetto, you deservedly make people lose respect for you.

Your ability to put your foot in your mouth will likely guarantee that even if you do get in touch with a studio exec or a producer, you'll likely say something like this that will cause the person not to close any deal with you.


A) How many people sell a million dollar spec script? Almost no one.

B)50,000 dollars is not much money to be working under deadlines in the film industry as a career. I don't know how you grew up but 50,000 is nothing and I grew up poor. Only experienced writers get development deals anyways. If you don't have a script to back up your pitch to a producer all your doing is pitching your ideas away.

[GonnaBeFamous]

I don't really have an interest in being a "writer for hire", though. It may sound unrealistic, but I'd rather just option or sell the random spec script for some decent bread, put myself through school and get that whole "English teacher" thing happening lol

Thats a realistic outlook. Writer for hire is pretty much impossible, just don't tell Justino that.

[Boo_Radley]

Kevin Williamson, an at-the-time un-purchased and un-optioned screenwriter, sold his first script, SCREAM, for five million bucks after a bidding war between Miramax and Oliver Stone's production company. Along with the five mil he got a three picture deal with an option to direct one.

Sure it's not the "norm", but who says dreams never come true?

[GonnaBeFamous]

The odds are too low of such sales and I'm not good enough writer for me to even ponder such ludicrosity.

[cekoya]

I am not personally running after the money but I enjoy writing original concepts, using my own vision. I consider it more of a hobby until it really brings me any good money. Then, I could really consider my options. I mean, Stephen King was living in trailer trash until he got his first book published. He just loved writing and started to teach first. Well, that's about the same thing for me. Professionally, I am concentrating on two things:My current job and my hobby (which I hope could become my new profession).

I would like to do things step by step, starting to sell one script or two before looking into producing or directing my own movie. Once I get the contacts and the funds, I would invest more time in doing what I enjoy most to vehiculate a new feeling, a new way of interpreting cinema, etc.

That's my view on it and I can just learn from the masters to start with and grow from there...

[NikeeGoddess]

that is so true, gonna - good thing you recognized your lack for potential early on. now....go away! and stop buggin us serious writers with your crap and hone your skills at flipping frozen cow parts a burger king.

[Boo_Radley]

Warning: Semi-Rant

It's best to be realistic, sure, but being optimistic never hurt anybody. Just because it doesn't happen often doesn't mean it never happens.

Ever see the Alec Baldwin/Anthony Hopkins movie The Edge? "What one man can do, another can do." This always has been and always will be my personal philosophy. If Kevin Williamson can sell his first screenplay, a tongue-in-cheek slasher flick, for five million clams and get himself a VERY lucrative deal out of it, then who's to say Stephanie 76, or Dpaterson, icerose, scripter1 --ANYBODY here -- will never be able to do the same?

I'm not saying it's easy, I'm not even saying it's probable. I am, however, saying it's POSSIBLE.

It can be achieved.

It has been achieved.

And since it is possible, then if you work hard enough and you have what it takes, it can happen.

But if you're going to be a nay-sayer from the get-go and not even consider the possiblity, why bother doing this to begin with? Better to just keep doing what you're doing for a living now be it a garbage man, a stay-at-home parent, a bank clerk or whatever and just admit to yourself, "I never had what it took to begin with...it was just a fantasy. I never really wanted to be a screenwriter. It was a slow week and I just wanted to waste some time." If this applies to anyone in particular, it's not like there's anything wrong with it. But if you're going to come to this site and carry on about how great a writer you are and then turn around and basically call it a huge waste of time because it's not worth the fifty thousand bucks you might earn, then what the hell's the point?

I have a bit more faith in myself and my abilities than that...not to mention that for fifty grand I'd dance butt-naked in the middle of Times Square with the words "I love to do the cha-cha" stenciled on my ***.

[cekoya]

Good philosohy Boo! Way to go...

I also believe optimism can bring you far and I would never give up on a project, ever... I have learnt to be positive in the army. If your mind goes, your body goes. It works the same way in screenwriting. If you keep positive and make the best out of it, you can just improve from your bad experience or your so-called failures, which are, in fact, a good way of being more prepared in life. Breaking bundaries is the way to go. Following etiquette works occasionally as everybody follows like sheep. Who can be dissociated from the mass by respecting the rules of Hollywood? What rules? Built by who? Screenwriting teachers? Everybody is different and I might wrong for some people but I just do things the way it sounds good to me without being too invading and never arrogant. Just to say, hey, I am there, I exist and I am a human being like you, looking for a contact. Agents, producers and directors are also looking for good prospects. So, let's not build our own cage before we feel we have to by "Law". I can just say: Good boy!

[GonnaBeFamous]

Boo, I was addressing the development deal aspect. Noobs don't get those usually. it's best to write a few scripts andhope you sell one by spec then to worry about getting a development job, which is impossible for someone unless they gradually worked themselves with reputation in the industry.

[Optimus]

Gonna, how is it that you go from having zero actual knowledge of screenwriting, zero skill for screenwriting, zero credible knowledge of how Hollywood works (at all) to, for the past three days, posting zealously about your "knowledge" of the biz which is, obviously, just you regurgitating urban legends you've heard and advice you've been given regarding your pages?

I mean, seriously?

When the heck did you become such an "expert?"

I just gotta ask because much of what you've been babbling lately is just plain wrong and could lead some naive newb (other than yourself) down an incredibly deleterious path.

[Joe Calabrese]

Funny thing. At the beach house we rent if I stand on the far eastern side of the porch and tilt the laptop on it side and lean over the edge, I can get wifi half the time.

You can guess it is an tough position so excuse my typing skills.

BTW. the water today was great!

Listen gonna. you know nothing about this industry (I have been in and out of it for twenty years in all areas of pre, prod and post) and if you are one of those writers who want to get rich off selling a spec fora million first time out, get the girls, the fancy car and go to all the cool parties, then you are right, it is nearly impossible-- so give up. now.

A screenwriter must pay his/her dues. Go to IMdb.com and look at the bios of all the writers with films out this week. look at their ages, look at how long they have been at it, look at the diversity of work. Spec scripts is the small end of a writer's career.

A screenwriter does work for hire, consulting, teaching, books, polishes, conferences, produce, direct, and even a day job when times are slow.

You write, write, write. You push push push.

And you write those pet spec projects in hope of selling it big, to stay on top of your personal skills and/or as a sample of your work to get work.

Yes it is hard, just as becoming a musician is hard, but they too play weddings, clubs and record their demos in hopes of geting that big contract.

As for the money. 50K is nothing to brag about but do that five times a year and you're talking money.

Most scripts sold never get made. Look at the sales on done deal from a year ago, or two.

Look at the sales. Atleast a dozen scripts per year are sold for well above 7 figs and some of those are from newbies. Look at mr. and mrs smith. Madagascar.

But for every one newbie that wins that lottery there are dozens of us who struggle and work at what we love. I am not famous and I am not succesful, but I am on vacation at the shore for a week paid for by a script sale, last year was the same but that was from two rewrite jobs. I am paying my dues and loving it.

There are so many details I could type forever, but my arm is getting tired from holding the laptopover the side.

Just have fun and get your name out there. Change your name from gonnabefamous to gonnabehappywithwhatilovedoing and you will be much better off, in this industry to life.

peace.

[WritingFool]

Here Here. Well said.
Joe the epitome of a writer, and a man.
Can I get 3 cheers here.
You gotta love this guy.

And hey Joe. dont think cause Im following you around, Im gunna want you to read my script..okay..ol buddy ol pal.
:)

[icerose]

After reading Joe's post I forgot what I was going to say.

....

Oh yeah! I grew up in a family of 9 yes say it again 9 and we lived on 25,000 dollars a year. When my dad was diagnosed with MS and White Matter Disease (a brain deteriorating disease) then we were moved down to 12,000 a year. We didn't live in the ghetto, we lived in a house and even though money was tight we made it. 50,000-100,000 a year would be beyond amazing. It would be having a house paid for in a couple of years rather than 20. It wouldn't be a mansion, but it would be a home. And it would mean a change in everything.

I can't do much, I promised my kids I would stay at home and be a mommy like my mom was to me. Something I would never give up for all the money growing up in the world. So for me I write, hoping I can give them more than I recieved, but loving every moment of it because life is precious.

I am going to be a career writer, even if it is doing as Joe says, paying my dues as I go along because it gives me the special ability to be with my kids and do something pro-active towards our financial situation. This might not be good for others, but it is good for me.

I am a career writer. :)

[WritingFool]

Im surprised that people still pay any attention to this gunnabe person. Its encouraging to read how he brings out passion and hope in others to the surface, in a weird kinda way, but I think it just helps us all see who the genuine people are in here.

There really is a good group of people in here. Its nice to see. And I hopeeach and every one of you get to achieve your own images of success. Be it the money, the ability to go to school after serving our country(82nd Airborne Vet here--All the Way!), or just enjoying the pleasure you get from writing, and maybe even enough bucks to enjoy some time off.

Whatever it be, I hope you dont measure yourselves by what you sell, or dont sell, but by how much you enjoy the process of learning the art of Storytelling.

Talk about turning a dumb post around, huh. :)

[Mac H.]

Since the odds are so slim and even if you do sell you probably won't make much money in the long run.... so is everyone here mostly doing it for a hobby to kill time? Does anyone plan to actually make it and live off their screenwriting? To answer the original question - I write as a hobby.
I hope that some time in the next 15 years one of my projects will make it to the screen. Not an impossible dream, but certainly well away from something I could 'expect' would happen.

Over here (Australia) there is zero hope of making a full time living as a writer for films. TV - sure, there are quite a few good TV writers making a living doing it. But, to put it bluntly, I make more money than most of them, and I enjoy my current job. Sure, the top TV writers make a very decent income, but the average isn't particularly impressive. And, to be honest, my writing is below the average at the moment.

The amount of money I would make selling a feature film in this country would mean that I'd have to sell (and have the film get made) a feature every 2 years to make a semi-decent income.

What about moving to the USA for work? Apart for the insanity of why the US government would choose to put one of their own citizens on the unemployment queue to give a foreigner like me a job, the fact as an Aussie taxpayer I get (almost) free 100% health coverage over here wouldn't even begin to make up for any wage difference.

So it's a hobby for me - and I'm happy with it.

Mac
(PS: Icerose - what is the government support for someone with MS in the USA? I'm starting to appreciate the health system over here!)

[Boo_Radley]

Mac - if you have a disability you could get SSD (Social Security Disability) but it'd be based on what you paid into SS and credits earned based on your last five to fifteen years of employment. But even then, there's a seventy percent chance you'd be turned down the first time you applied and even if you were approved, they take into consideration your current resources and have a ceiling of $2,000.00 per month -- $3,000.00 if you're married and your spouse is also filing. You might still qualify for Medicaid, though, which is its own headache.

By the way, I work at a homeless shelter and run a Social Security Outreach Program, just in case anyone's wondering if I know what I'm talking about lol

To be perfectly honest, Mac, if health care is a concern -- don't come to the states. I understand you were probably joking and I don't mean to take this thread off topic, but still...US healthcare sucks rabid donkey *** unless you're loaded.

[GonnaBeFamous]

I only assumed spec sales/options was the main way in was because I had read that you don't get development deals unless you sold something and that your pitching your ideas away if you dont have a spec behind it. Either your lucky or the guy was wrong. And I know you've had success with development deals, but I know you have had to do a lot of things to get where you're at too. :)

[GonnaBeFamous]

After reading Joe's post I forgot what I was going to say.

....

Oh yeah! I grew up in a family of 9 yes say it again 9 and we lived on 25,000 dollars a year. When my dad was diagnosed with MS and White Matter Disease (a brain deteriorating disease) then we were moved down to 12,000 a year. We didn't live in the ghetto, we lived in a house and even though money was tight we made it. 50,000-100,000 a year would be beyond amazing. It would be having a house paid for in a couple of years rather than 20. It wouldn't be a mansion, but it would be a home. And it would mean a change in everything.

I can't do much, I promised my kids I would stay at home and be a mommy like my mom was to me. Something I would never give up for all the money growing up in the world. So for me I write, hoping I can give them more than I recieved, but loving every moment of it because life is precious.

I am going to be a career writer, even if it is doing as Joe says, paying my dues as I go along because it gives me the special ability to be with my kids and do something pro-active towards our financial situation. This might not be good for others, but it is good for me.

I am a career writer. :)


If your single like me you can't rely on that because you have to get the writing done as a fulltime job so you would have to quit your job. So you make your 50K then you never get another "deal" again possibly. Or even worse you get kicked off during the treatment phase and make a lousy 20,000 before everyone takes their piece out of that(lawyers agents taxes) only to be out looking for a new job. Then you realize it aint so much. If your married and making money already it's great for you. If your single it seems like a gamble, unless you just sold a milion dollar script to warner brothers you could live off of.

[GonnaBeFamous]

Gonna, how is it that you go from having zero actual knowledge of screenwriting, zero skill for screenwriting, zero credible knowledge of how Hollywood works (at all) to, for the past three days, posting zealously about your "knowledge" of the biz which is, obviously, just you regurgitating urban legends you've heard and advice you've been given regarding your pages?

I mean, seriously?

When the heck did you become such an "expert?"

I just gotta ask because much of what you've been babbling lately is just plain wrong and could lead some naive newb (other than yourself) down an incredibly deleterious path.

Articles from screenwriters. Apparently you don't read as avidly.

[Optimus]

Articles from screenwriters. Apparently you don't read as avidly.

Uh huh.

So, reading a few articles has made you an expert?

I see.

Good luck with that.

[GonnaBeFamous]

Icerose it must be really cheap in utah.

I live In california and in the suburbs a dinky small house costs 300K. In metropolotian areas all houses are starting at 600 to 800K.

You can't even live comfortably on 100K in many places in california. Maybe I'm just spoiled because I can say hello to Barry Bonds and Brittany Murphy down the street as I walk my dog. Just kidding on the last sentence. :)

[Mac H.]

To be perfectly honest, Mac, if health care is a concern -- don't come to the states.No - I'm in wonderful health. (Touch wood). But seeing the assistance my girlfriend gets with her MS medication has made me appreciate the system here. The aside was an early defence against the expected "You must move to L.A." post!

And Gonna, I suspect you'll annoy Optimus less if you rephrase your statements slightly. eg:

I was addressing the development deal aspect. Noobs don't get those usually.Since you got the information from an article, then you could have simply said "According to what Gary Thomas said in last week's "LA Times", Noobs don't usually get development deals.

Then it impresses people with your research instead of annoying them that you seem to be quoting first hand info when it clearly isn't first hand.

Just a suggestion - I do enjoy the enthusiasm of your posts!

Mac

[JustinoXXV]

If your single like me you can't rely on that because you have to get the writing done as a fulltime job so you would have to quit your job. So you make your 50K then you never get another "deal" again possibly. Or even worse you get kicked off during the treatment phase and make a lousy 20,000 before everyone takes their piece out of that(lawyers agents taxes) only to be out looking for a new job. Then you realize it aint so much. If your married and making money already it's great for you. If your single it seems like a gamble, unless you just sold a milion dollar script to warner brothers you could live off of.

Dude, whether or not you get another deal again depends on the quality of your WRITING. Come up with hot stuff, after you get a sale you will get others.

I've personally met and known well of screenwriters and tv writers in both NY and in Los Angeles.

I think you're upset and trying to trash all writers because people here (and elsewhere) were very criticial of your screenplays.

But rather than taking it out on others, you should be going back over your work to see if their comments have any validity. If they do, then you need to rework your scripts.

Oh, having 6 scripts in 6 months isn't necessarily good. Good that you completed your first drafts, but you are going to have to get proper feedback on the entire script (likely pay a script consultant) and do some rewrites.

You, in an attempt to circumvent this (classes or a consultant) posted your work on a forum where you'd be arguing with people, as you got SLAMMED.

As for a house costing $800, 000, you'd need only several spec sales at the rate of $50k to $100k, plus some writing assignments (film or tv) to pay it off.

Screenwriting is like acting. There's no shortage of struggling actors. But then you have well off working actors, and A list actors. The working screenwriter is well off, and the A lister makes millions.

(I say this so that another person won't come along and believe Gonna when he says writers can't make a living).

[icerose]

Mac H.

The system here is lousy. We fought for two years just to get social security and took a pay cut of 13,000 a year. My dad lost his pension because he was forced to retire early because of the medical reasons.

He always told me I could do anything I set my heart to and worked my all for, and I plan to do just that.

Gonna
Yes housing is infinitely cheaper than L.A. which is why I doubt I would ever move there!

Growing up our house cost 50,000 dollars. It was over 100 years old, but it was a house on 4 acres and we were happy despite our meager circumstances.

Right now we rent a single wide trailer :( hoped I would never have to say that ever in my life, but thankfully it is on a private lot. I aspire for more, a house of our own, which we can get a 5 bdr for 65,000 with 3 acres of land so we hope to be able to move soon. (of course there are the higher end that cost in the millions around here but for a first house there is no way I would ever go that extravagant even if I had the money.)

And no one ever said you had to quit your job after the first sale or even ten sales. I personally think the first sale would be the hardest because you are so new at it and once you have that sale you can say, hey, I'm a professional.
(This statement is not built on any statistics, facts or articles it is just my opinion.)
Yes hollywood is hard to break in but script writers don't just write blockbusters. There are hundreds of channels on tv with thousands of programs to watch. There is a high need for script consultants.

I have no problem with anyone writing as a hobby. Whatever makes you happy. But that doesn't mean the industry is impossible to break into for those of us who wish to pursue our career in writing.

:)

Sara

[GonnaBeFamous]

Dude, whether or not you get another deal again depends on the quality of your WRITING. Come up with hot stuff, after you get a sale you will get others.

I've personally met and known well of screenwriters and tv writers in both NY and in Los Angeles.

I think you're upset and trying to trash all writers because people here (and elsewhere) were very criticial of your screenplays.

But rather than taking it out on others, you should be going back over your work to see if their comments have any validity. If they do, then you need to rework your scripts.

Oh, having 6 scripts in 6 months isn't necessarily good. Good that you completed your first drafts, but you are going to have to get proper feedback on the entire script (likely pay a script consultant) and do some rewrites.

You, in an attempt to circumvent this (classes or a consultant) posted your work on a forum where you'd be arguing with people, as you got SLAMMED.

As for a house costing $800, 000, you'd need only several spec sales at the rate of $50k to $100k, plus some writing assignments (film or tv) to pay it off.

Screenwriting is like acting. There's no shortage of struggling actors. But then you have well off working actors, and A list actors. The working screenwriter is well off, and the A lister makes millions.

(I say this so that another person won't come along and believe Gonna when he says writers can't make a living).


I'm not trashing any writers, That's you .ie me. All I said was development deals are hard to get and EVEN if you do get them you can't live off of it LONG TERM you can get cut out at any point in the deal or did you just forget about that? Who says you'll get another deal? 80% of hollywood writers are out of work right now, or did you forget that little statistic?. Look at Joe, he's been in the business for years and I think he is just starting to get a decent amount of money from the business. You think like a simpleton. You don't wake up get a sale and have a booming career automatically.

[Optimus]

Indeed. However, that is the very attitude you took regarding your "great" work before you posted it and bragged about possibly getting a "known Hollywood writer" to co-write it with you.

[JustinoXXV]

I'm not trashing any writers, That's you .ie me. All I said was development deals are hard to get and EVEN if you do get them you can't live off of it LONG TERM you can get cut out at any point in the deal or did you just forget about that? Who says you'll get another deal? 80% of hollywood writers are out of work right now, or did you forget that little statistic?. Look at Joe, he's been in the business for years and I think he is just starting to get a decent amount of money from the business. You think like a simpleton. You don't wake up get a sale and have a booming career automatically.


Dude, I posted the names of screenwriters who are have indeed made living off screenwriting long term. Just because your work has been trashed doesn't mean that people don't making a living as screenwriters or in the film industry long term.

I suspect your posts are flame bait, just because you've gotten some harsh critiques.

[StephieM]

:cry: You guys are so great...(sniffle,sniffle).

Here's my story: I'm a stay at home mom with three kids. I've been writing ever since I can remember. On my 14th birthday, my grandparents gave me the best present in the world. It was a book "The Writing Life" by Annie Dillard. Inside my grandmother wrote... We hope you will follow your dream and become the writer we know is in you. You have great talent and a wonderful gift. Don't ever give up.

I am not going to dissappoint her, even if it takes my entire life to reach my goal. I will never give up.

Steph

[odocoileus]

I don't know that gonnabe'*******
And who'd take the anonymous word of an obviously clueless poster over the advice in reputable books available in any library?

A single adult can get by pretty well on 50k in LA. "Living in a carpet box" as the Posies would put it, with a nice view of the Santa Susana mountains from my balcony. I wouldn't want to raise a family on that income alone, but millions of people in So Cal do just that, so it ain't impossible.

When I was PA ing on various TV shows, I made a lot less than 50k. Second second ADs who work a full TV season make a 100K or so, depending on how many double days they get. They ain't exactly living large, but they do okay, and there's a line of people round the block wating to take their jobs.

[GonnaBeFamous]

:cry: You guys are so great...(sniffle,sniffle).

Here's my story: I'm a stay at home mom with three kids. I've been writing ever since I can remember. On my 14th birthday, my grandparents gave me the best present in the world. It was a book "The Writing Life" by Annie Dillard. Inside my grandmother wrote... We hope you will follow your dream and become the writer we know is in you. You have great talent and a wonderful gift. Don't ever give up.

I am not going to dissappoint her, even if it takes my entire life to reach my goal. I will never give up.

Steph

I was going to say that you had a lot of potential I could tell when you critiqued mine and others screenplays.

[GonnaBeFamous]

Dude, I posted the names of screenwriters who are have indeed made living off screenwriting long term. Just because your work has been trashed doesn't mean that people don't making a living as screenwriters or in the film industry long term.

I suspect your posts are flame bait, just because you've gotten some harsh critiques.

And I can post the names of people that won the lottery.

Funny, I thought the same thing about you.
:box:

[GonnaBeFamous]

To answer the original question - I write as a hobby.
I hope that some time in the next 15 years one of my projects will make it to the screen. Not an impossible dream, but certainly well away from something I could 'expect' would happen.

Over here (Australia) there is zero hope of making a full time living as a writer for films. TV - sure, there are quite a few good TV writers making a living doing it. But, to put it bluntly, I make more money than most of them, and I enjoy my current job. Sure, the top TV writers make a very decent income, but the average isn't particularly impressive. And, to be honest, my writing is below the average at the moment.

The amount of money I would make selling a feature film in this country would mean that I'd have to sell (and have the film get made) a feature every 2 years to make a semi-decent income.

What about moving to the USA for work? Apart for the insanity of why the US government would choose to put one of their own citizens on the unemployment queue to give a foreigner like me a job, the fact as an Aussie taxpayer I get (almost) free 100% health coverage over here wouldn't even begin to make up for any wage difference.

So it's a hobby for me - and I'm happy with it.

Mac
(PS: Icerose - what is the government support for someone with MS in the USA? I'm starting to appreciate the health system over here!)

Maybe try and sell spec scripts to the U.S?

Thats great that you are doing it for a hobby. If I get lucky with spec sales then great I make money on the side and can be a script consultant, if not then I tuck them away and let them gather dust. I'd never do development deals and I live near L.A.

[JustinoXXV]

And I can post the names of people that won the lottery.

Funny, I thought the same thing about you.
:box:

Working screenwriters have talent. Just like working actors, musicians, directors, atheletes, scientists, etc.

You need no talent to win the lottery. All you have to do is purchase the winning ticket.

[preyer]

'ALl those deadlines for meager pay(if you think 50 to 100K is anything more then chump change then you must livein the ghettos).' call me a chump then, b/c any fool who can't live on 100K is an idiot. granted, i live in ohio where the price of things is relatively reasonable, but i've lived in l.a., too (well, actually i lived *on* long beach for several months-- homelessness isn't as fun as it sounds, trust me), but there's no reason why you can't live quite comfortably on that as long as you don't pick out the nearest penthouse apartment overlooking the studios with a private subway line to the beach. live an hour outside the city limits and you can have anything you want for the most part for 100K a year. hell, live in mexico on that much money and you can live like a damn hell-asss king. sorry, that statement just rather struck a nerve with me. :)

most anyone earning 100K a year should be smart enough to invest their money wisely enough to live pretty damn well. running out and buying that porsche (pronounced 'por-shuh', for those who've never owned one :)) will lead you to the poorhouse fast (porsche fast. guess that would make it the 'porschaus,' you see, because... well, nevermind). hard to invest when you make 50K, true, but a 100K just begets more fortune if you don't pisss it away as soon as you get it (i.e. buying that 600K house instead of a 200K one. my step-uncle-in-law is a millionaire, but you wouldn't know it by looking at him or the lifestyle he lives. from what i understand about millionaires in general, few live the high life. the smart ones buy a decent house, not a mansion, invest, drive a GM truck or car, not a lexus or bmw, wear levi not armani, and basically excercise general financial sense. not to say they don't have nice things, just not extravagant on every level. let's face it, writing stories is pretty easy work if you can find it compared to what someone else with real jobs have to do to earn a third of that. 'oh, no, i've got to go on another book-signing tour where i'm fauned over by my fans. oh, woe is me!' hey, go tell it to the guy tearing off your roof and see how much sympathy you get, lol. gimme a break. any job where you can calculate your commute with a yardstick and your biggest occupational hazard is asss-numbness is doing pretty good by most standards, one well worth keeping if you're 'only' making 50K.)

it's a hobby for me at this point. really, i'm still more into fiction writing than writing scripts (i'm still reading scripts to see how it's done). but, yeah, i think there's potential there for me to make a modest living at it, assuming i'm selling 50K quality scripts. i have no problems with that at all. doing it full-time, i think i could pop out two quality scripts a year. note the word 'quality.' once i got into the swing of how to write a script, i could probably churn 'em out monthly if i just wanted quantity, again assuming i do nothing else. i mean, a lot of ideas you can take and change a few things, do it in another genre, and pretty much make three scripts out of one basic idea just by concentrating on different aspects of the story and altering the setting and some characters. can't do this always, of course, but there are some ideas out there you could do it with... if one was so inclined.

i couldn't get away with a novel a month in fiction. it just simply takes more time for me. if i don't have to fret over balancing establishing moods with words and sentence structure that fits, etc., and i can approach things from a 'bare-bones' standpoint knowing that art departments and other people with be including their takes on things, that's a lot i wouldn't have to think about. that is, without having to describe a run-down hotel room and make it worth reading, i can just say 'run-down hotel room' and give a few clues as to how it is. i don't have to be clever with the words, in other words, just get the idea down with a few points of interest. at least that's how i perceive screenwriting to be, correct me if i'm wrong.

i agree, i couldn't be a writer-for-hire, i think. i could if they gave me enough time. making revisions and things like that i wouldn't have a problem with, but if someone said they needed 'x' within a month, they'd get a month's worth of quality out of it. i'm slow that way. if they said 'write a romantic comedy set in new york and have a draft to us in three months,' hey, no problem (i'd just have to visit new york, lol). 'give us a completely new ending in a week,' well, that's where i'm not sure. i'm not sure that's how things work, i just get the impression some deadlines are ridiculously unreasonable.

obviously, much fewer movies are made than books published. while it's still not the easiest thing in the world to get your book published, if you write a good book, there's a good chance someone with publish it. i'd imagine that if you wrote a good script, someone will option it. i don't know if this is true in the movie industry, too, but most major publishing houses won't look at un-agented newbies. just looking at submission guidelines for publishers it says flat-out, 'no crappy writers who think they've written the next american novel and sends us a lousy piece of trash stuffing.' i say that because i think a lot of screenwriters aren't very good literary writers, per se. which isn't saying they don't have good ideas or can't convey a story, just that writing literature ain't their strong suit. (sorry, kind of an aside there.)

i think most of us here will lean towards where the money is. like icerose, i think were it to come right down to it, she, and me and probably most other people, would choose screenwriting were they getting paid for both. most published writers won't see 50K, which, if GBF is correct, is the bottom echelon for a script. her, like me and most others, would probably do novels because they're very satisfying to complete, but it would take a backseat to where the money's at. just from a financial standpoint, i'd muuuuch rather be a successful screenwriter than successful novelist. don't mean to suggest anything, IR, i'm just saying that money is a powerful lure. if i can tell the same story in half the time and get paid five times as much for it, there's no question that's the way i'd go because i don't feel movies are any less an artform than writing. i think the stephen kings still write novels because that's where their fans are and they're to the point where they can do what they want any way they want.

once you get everything you want and are financially set for life, what do you do then? you do what you want that's personally satisfying. for king it's probably writing novels. financial independence allows you to do these things. i'd imagine financial independence also leads towards a certain ennui and that's why you have a lot of bored millionaires running off to do benefits in iraq, producing stuff, and opening bars and restaurants. not that they need the money, they just need something to fill their daze, heh heh. funny that we should strive for that, no?

i could consult on scripts someday. i suppose. doesn't seem too interesting, but if it paid the bills, sure, why not. could I? again, why not.

someone tell me true: if you've got just a modicum of talent, will you get far in the industry? if you're a great screenwriter, will you avoid a lot of dues those with more tenacity than talent will have to go through? are there thousands of great scripts out there that haven't been optioned once they've gotten into the decision-makers' hands? in other words, if i send someone a great spec, will they option it at least? if i'm better than the next guy, do i still have to jump through the same hoops of fire he does?

[GonnaBeFamous]

Working screenwriters have talent. Just like working actors, musicians, directors, atheletes, scientists, etc.

You need no talent to win the lottery. All you have to do is purchase the winning ticket.

You totally missed the point of my post.

[GonnaBeFamous]

someone tell me true: if you've got just a modicum of talent, will you get far in the industry? if you're a great screenwriter, will you avoid a lot of dues those with more tenacity than talent will have to go through? are there thousands of great scripts out there that haven't been optioned once they've gotten into the decision-makers' hands? in other words, if i send someone a great spec, will they option it at least? if i'm better than the next guy, do i still have to jump through the same hoops of fire he does?

I think its hard in general. That's the problem.

As for the money issue that's really offtopic anyways, but people hijacked this thread on that issue, I'll say this everyone's interpretation of money is different, but I still stand by the statement, even if I was homeless(which I nearly am :) )

[preyer]

'hard' is really subjective, too, no? what's hard for stephen king will probably be impossible for me. getting bought isn't pure luck, but if you're among one of the truly talented and consistent, don't you think that will, ah, 'good enough' to get noticed above the rest?

[StephieM]

Preyer, what part of Ohio are you from. I'm from Akron.

I don't know if I could work for hire either. It's different when someone expects something from you. I'm not good with filling obligations. It's like in highschool how they make you read all these great classics, I love to read, but put something in front of me and tell me I have to read it, it's a whole different story. But you never know, if someday I become good at screenwriting and I actually make a sell, I may be more comfortable with the idea. For now, I'm just going to write the stories I want to write and hopefully that will get me somewhere. :)

Steph

[GonnaBeFamous]

'hard' is really subjective, too, no? what's hard for stephen king will probably be impossible for me. getting bought isn't pure luck, but if you're among one of the truly talented and consistent, don't you think that will, ah, 'good enough' to get noticed above the rest?

If you can get an agent to read your scripts or win a script contest then you'll get noticed.

[Annabanana]

I don't write screenplays because I hope to make money, I hope to make money because I write screenplays. I have a day job with a very nice salary for someone a year out of college, and if I can sell a script and make even $10K, why not? I could use the extra cash but I don't depend on it.

Oh yes, and I would work for hire. I'm very good with deadlines and I actually work faster when I know someone else is lighting a fire under my ***.

[preyer]

realistic deadlines would be good for me, just don't tell me a major rewrite is due yesterday.

i'm from dayton, home of the wright brothers and the voice of bart simpson, martin sheen and (nearby) the lowe brothers.

[StephieM]

Akron-home of goodyear blimp, goodyear tires, and lots of pollution. :)

Steph

[JERETHAL]

I only write in my spare time. I have a need to write. The story finds me and I write it. I have three discs filled with material. I wouldn't even think about selling my work for peanuts. I want what I want or I won't sell. I'm a sax player and self employed writer. I look for opportunities and always find them. Right now is a good time to get into the political arena as a speechwriter or a position paper writer. I write position papers on issues and look for hotly contested national races to sell myself as a consultant. I'm working on a position paper on social security for an upcoming U.S. Senatorial race. Right now there are two schools of thought on social security: Privatize or stay the course. Privatization is pushed by people who realize the Congress will just continue to "borrow" from soxcial security and never pay it back. i.e. steal. The people feel that the politicans should pay back what they took and put the fund in a lock box. Neither will happen. Social Security will collapse because the people will never privatize because they know they shouldn't have to gamble with it to save it. The politican's will continue to steal from it an an accelerated rate because with numerous wars going on, monery is tight for pork barrel projects they need to get re-elected.

I feel like we need a leader to stand up and say "look, Social security will collapse- and sooner than projected because those earlier projections were made during the most prosperous years in American history. The cultural shock will be devastating and require a generation or two or three to deal with it. We need to prepare our culture for that shock. What will happen? What will life be like? How will we deal with it? What do we need to prepare ourselves culturally right now? Will it require families coming together into one single larger family unit? Who will have to sacrifice? Do we need to start changing our views about life? Can we learn from China, who has no social security system? How can we save money now to put into the fund? Should we nationalize our oil industries? Should we federalize our Defense industries? We can save up to 100 billion a year by cutting out the defense contractor middle men. Should we take obese disabled off Social security disability because they are obese? Why should we pay people not to work because they are too fat to live well. They suffer Arthritis,heart disease,emphasema,depression,and all manner of disease because they get too fat to bend over to tie their shoes. We spend hundreds of billions a year on SSD and health care for people who have no problem but a love for the all you can eat buffet. If we quit being such suckers, we could prevent or delay or at least ease the suffering of the social security collapse.
If we took obese people off the gravy train, federalized our defense production, nationalized the oil industry, required four years of public service from our young people between 18-22 and paid back social security by reducing pork spending we could create a great America again. 18-22 yr.olds could go to college while doing public service. You go to school for 4 hrs., study for four hours, work for 8 hours and sleep for eight hours. No time for parties and video games and sex but oh well. College would be paid for!

This is what I do. My screenplays are much more valuable.

If you want to write and have the ability to create suggestions for solutions to problem's and public discourse; you can be a political consultant/strategist/position paper writer/speech writer. Every year there are hundreds of guys looking for bright people to kick around ideas with. JUST DON'T COME CHEAP! These guys have a million or millions to spend. They can buy a hundred thousand dollars worth of newspaper ads and TV ads- OR THEY CAN GIVE IT TO YOU. I charge 25 an hour for thinking,50 an hour for writing, and 100 an hour for listening and talkin. A position paper for a debate prep cost 1000.00 per paper. Sometimes there are five or six issues to be discussed. That equals 5 or 6 grand for position papers. CASH ON DELIVERY.

Screenplays start at one million and haggle.