Overwrite vs. Underwrite

[gilesth]

Do you overwrite your manuscript and cut the word count to fit your desires, or do you underwrite it and let revisions help you reach your goals? Personally, I underwrite and revise because that's what I found to be most effective for me, but I've heard of many authors who overwrite.

Why do you write the way you do?

[Bubastes]

I tend to overwrite by about 10-15%. It's not a conscious decision -- I'm just naturally wordy in my first drafts.

[Chris P]

I've done both. I have short stories anywhere from 300 words to 5K.

My first novella started as a short story. I then padded the stew out of it to make it novel length. I then cut out the stew and let it be at 36K words.

For my first full novel, I wrote what I wanted, how I wanted and it came in at 230K. I shortened it to 200, then 185, and now I'm slashing it to a current 116K.

For my current WIP, I'm straining a bit to reach 70K, but once it's done I shouldn't have to do much more to it.

[JamieFord]

I underwrite, now that I think of it. With the last book I added 6,000 words in revision.

I know of another author that regularly turns in 500,000-word manuscripts and his editor basically carves the story out of that much excess.

[ether]

I kind of do both. With my finished MS, I went back in and added about 10k worth of new chapters/plot points and character development, but now I've gone back in and trimmed out about 7k of the entire thing in places where I was too wordy.

[scarletpeaches]

Overwrite.

My first book went from 148k down to 85k.

The one I'm editing now came in at around 86k. I'll be adding to some paragraphs but overall I expect to lose around 5-10k.

[CaroGirl]

I consistently write too short. With my current wip, I'm keeping the w/c goal firmly in mind as a I write and I'm hoping to come pretty close this time. I think I tend to write short because I'm a naturally spare writer. But I'm learning (I hope).

[C.M.C.]

I do neither. My works are not yo-yo dieters.

[gilesth]

I know of another author that regularly turns in 500,000-word manuscripts and his editor basically carves the story out of that much excess.

Wow! That sounds like a lot of work :) I couldn't imagine putting that much work into something that I know is going to get torn to shreds. I'm surprised the editors are willing to put that much work into the story, too. Shows how much I still have to learn about the industry :D

[Jamesaritchie]

Neither. I know what length I want a novel to be before I start writing, and that's the length I make it.

[Jamesaritchie]

I underwrite, now that I think of it. With the last book I added 6,000 words in revision.

I know of another author that regularly turns in 500,000-word manuscripts and his editor basically carves the story out of that much excess.

That writer either sells spectacularly well, or has a saint for an editor. Every editor I know would laugh and drop the manuscript in the nearest trash can.

[Danthia]

Underwrite. I always get the story down first, then look for ways to layer in deeper meaning and develop the characters better. I just think it's easier to add than to subtract. Once it's down it's a lot harder to get rid of it, both from an emotional standpoint and a technical standpoint. One thing might be interconnected to too many other aspects of the story and it's a pain to prune it all out.

[scarletpeaches]

Oh I find it much easier to cut than to add. Adding feels like I'm shovelling in fluff just to bulk up the word count. It's far, far easier to take away and cover over the join with a few judicious paragraphs.

[Pip]

I’m an underwriter. I kind of do it on purpose, because I really like to knock that first draft out quickly. When I have that draft in front of me, it’s easier for me to realise what’s missing from my story. To be honest though after a couple more drafts it can turn into a prime example of overwriting. :D

[Alpha Echo]

I underwrite. I'm with Pip - I just try to get that first draft out, then I can go through and make it decent.

[RJK]

I usually come in close to my target with the first draft. If I'm under, I find it difficult to add word count. I tried to add 10K words to one WIP by bringing in a new character with more problems the protagonist had to overcome. The best I could do with that exercise was about 1,800 words. I went back through the entire story looking for places I could add dialog or description. It was hard, I tell ya, it was hard.

[Mara]

Right now, I seem to underwrite when it comes to word count, but overwrite when it comes to number of scenes.

(I write scenes that need to be cut, but I tend to leave out a lot of description, so overall, fewer words but still lots of cutting.)

[aadams73]

I'm definitely in the "underwriter" pile. While I get the bulk of the story down and in place, I'll leave some scenes a little lacking until I know who the characters are. In the WIP fermenting on my harddrive right now, I wasn't sure the villain was a villain until the halfway point, so I took a lighter hand than normal with his scenes.

Action scenes also remain spare and bony until the second draft.

[maggi90w1]

Underwrite. I always get the story down first, then look for ways to layer in deeper meaning and develop the characters better
This. In the first draft I need to get the plot down. After that I can add diffrent layers to the story.

[gilesth]

Neither. I know what length I want a novel to be before I start writing, and that's the length I make it.

Well, many authors know what length they want the novel to end up at, but how do you reach that length when you move from first to second to final draft?

[Southpaw]

Both. It varies from chapter to chapter and day to day.

[Jeanette]

Underwrite. I always get the story down first, then look for ways to layer in deeper meaning and develop the characters better. I just think it's easier to add than to subtract. Once it's down it's a lot harder to get rid of it, both from an emotional standpoint and a technical standpoint. One thing might be interconnected to too many other aspects of the story and it's a pain to prune it all out.

Word.

[incognitopress]

I overwrite. And no, it's not a problem of too many adjectives, just a lot of plot points and twists. My finished draft was 226K. I pared it down to 211,000, then to 209K. Anyway, when the dust settles, I expect my book to come in close to 205,000. But at the moment I've got 3 fulls out, 2 partials and a couple of interested parties, so it's not always a danger to overwrite, as long as the material is more complex than just descriptive filler.

[aadams73]

Well, many authors know what length they want the novel to end up at, but how do you reach that length when you move from first to second to final draft?

This is going to sound glib, but it's not intended to be: practice.

Pretty soon you get a good feel for pacing, where you are in your story, how much more there is to go. And you'll find you're able to push the plot into the word count frame you've designated. Sure, you may go over or a little under, but that's easily rectifiable with a little concise dissection and editing.

(Says the woman whose current first scene consists of two lines.)

[CaroGirl]

This is going to sound glib, but it's not intended to be: practice.

Pretty soon you get a good feel for pacing, where you are in your story, how much more there is to go. And you'll find you're able to push the plot into the word count frame you've designated. Sure, you may go over or a little under, but that's easily rectifiable with a little concise dissection and editing.
QFT

[Jamesaritchie]

Well, many authors know what length they want the novel to end up at, but how do you reach that length when you move from first to second to final draft?

My first draft is always the right length, and the final draft is no more than two or three thousand words one way or the other.

For me, it's not a matter of practice because I did this with my very first novel, and with essentially no writing backgroud at all, other than three short stories I wrote during the two months or so before I wrote the novel.

I'm not sure I can explain how you do it, excapt to say it's all about story arc. A manuscript begins on page one, and if you know it needs to end on, say, page three hundred, you arc the story toward that.

Every story should have a beginning, a middle, and an end, but every good story also has a climax that usually comes shortly before the end. You write the opening first, and you make that the appropriate length for the overall novel. Then you write the middle, knowing how many words you have before the climax.

Mostly you pay attention as you're writing. You can't just write blindly, putting anything down that comes to mind, or you'll find yourself past the word count mark with half a novel still to write.

You must consciously think about length as you write. Okay, I'm twenty-five thousand words in, so only fifty thousand to go. The opening is behind me, the middle is well underway, but still a good bit of middle left, so don't aim at the climax just yet. Hit the proragonist with a couple of more obstacles. Okay, did that, and now I'm at sixty thousand words. Time to power toward the climax.

Okay, let me add this. Thee is one secret to writing to length that most new writers can't use, and it's a shame. That secret is the combination of a deadline, and a contract.

I've had these things since my first novel. Writers have all sorts of can't do this, better to do that, let the story come in wherever it wants and edit later rules, but the simple fact is that many writers don't have the luxury of doing this.

Trust me on this, when an editor says write me a 79,281 word novel in thirty days, and I will buy it, all those ideas, theories, this is best, that is best rules vanish instantly, and you will find a way to do exactly that.

[scarletpeaches]

This is going to sound glib, but it's not intended to be: practice.

Pretty soon you get a good feel for pacing, where you are in your story, how much more there is to go. And you'll find you're able to push the plot into the word count frame you've designated. Sure, you may go over or a little under, but that's easily rectifiable with a little concise dissection and editing.

(Says the woman whose current first scene consists of two lines.)I can only hit a particular word count if I outline and use MS Excel to keep track of what I've written so far.

I set it to add up my total so far and divide by the number of chapters written, a total which I then multiply by my expected number of chapters to get an estimated final word count. I can then delete scenes or chapters as necessary, or lengthen others if needed, to hit my 'target'.

With the book I'm editing just now, I aimed for 80k and it came it around 86-87k words. So not that far off. I expect it to hit 80k on the rewrites.

(And whether I outline or not, I have two drafts. The first, and the manuscript. I'm not one for fannying about rewriting six or seven times over the course of a year. One edit. It takes a week or two. Done. Onto the next book).

[gilesth]

I like hearing all of these perspectives on the writing process!

Jamesaritchie, I envy how your brain works! Most of the time I only have a generic outline that could fit into any story without any kind of character development or reader engagement. I have to write the first draft to find out what I want some of the characters to do. I know I can hit a precise word count without a contract or a deadline, and if given a deadline, I would MAKE it work...so in that aspect I can't agree with you %100..that and I've read articles by several (bestselling) authors who don't write their books the same way (though they're the exception to the rule, I'm sure).

Oh, and the last question was actually directed at you...how do you specifically go about reaching your word count...and you answered it :) I wasn't looking for a way for me to go about it...I already have my method :D (but of course I'm willing to learn and improve on that).

[gilesth]

I can only hit a particular word count if I outline and use MS Excel to keep track of what I've written so far.

I set it to add up my total so far and divide by the number of chapters written, a total which I then multiply by my expected number of chapters to get an estimated final word count. I can then delete scenes or chapters as necessary, or lengthen others if needed, to hit my 'target'.

With the book I'm editing just now, I aimed for 80k and it came it around 86-87k words. So not that far off. I expect it to hit 80k on the rewrites.

(And whether I outline or not, I have two drafts. The first, and the manuscript. I'm not one for fannying about rewriting six or seven times over the course of a year. One edit. It takes a week or two. Done. Onto the next book).

When I have a specific word count in mind, I get the basic plot onto paper, and then I go back and figure out what needs to be added or cut (usually added) to make the story more engaging and fun and to reach the length I'm looking for.

[kuwisdelu]

Neither, really, either. My final drafts are approximately the same length. I still cut and add, of course.

I don't start with any specific word count in mind other than knowing whether an idea will be approximately a short story, a novella, or a novel.

My final drafts are usually just a couple thousand words off from the original. I find I usually have to add in certain places about the same I have to cut in others. But also because of how I write my first drafts, a lot of what I have to do in editing isn't cutting or adding, but just trying to figure out how to make something clearer and do what I want to accomplish with a certain paragraph better.

[aadams73]

I can only hit a particular word count if I outline and use MS Excel to keep track of what I've written so far.


I'm going to have to try that just for kicks. I do it already to keep scenes organized, but not for word count. I see an experiment in my very near future...

[scarletpeaches]

I'm going to have to try that just for kicks. I do it already to keep scenes organized, but not for word count. I see an experiment in my very near future...Careful. It may stick.

I only tried that last year as part of my and Lori's "Let's swap methods for a laugh" experiment and it worked so well I used it for the following book (which I'm now editing) and likely for future projects too.

[Jamesaritchie]

I like hearing all of these perspectives on the writing process!

Jamesaritchie, I envy how your brain works! Most of the time I only have a generic outline that could fit into any story without any kind of character development or reader engagement. I have to write the first draft to find out what I want some of the characters to do. I know I can hit a precise word count without a contract or a deadline, and if given a deadline, I would MAKE it work...so in that aspect I can't agree with you %100..that and I've read articles by several (bestselling) authors who don't write their books the same way (though they're the exception to the rule, I'm sure).

Oh, and the last question was actually directed at you...how do you specifically go about reaching your word count...and you answered it :) I wasn't looking for a way for me to go about it...I already have my method :D (but of course I'm willing to learn and improve on that).

I write with no outline at all, and with no idea where the book is going. But I do write with the knowledge that story structure is circular, and when you write a proper opening, you've essentilly already written the ending. You may have no idea how the book will end, but you do know where it will end.

A good opening asks at least one question, and/or poses at least one problem. The book ends when the story circles around to the beginning, like a snake swallowing its own tail, and the question(s) have been answered, and/or the problem(s) solved.

Many writers do not write their books the same way, though from my research, something over half write pretty much the same way I do.

I do like Stephen King's rule of "Final draft equals first draft, minus ten percent." But other than the ten percent, I write very much the way King says he writes.

I could probably name a hundred writers who write very nearly the same way I write. Being prolific tends to mean the writer generally writes a certain way, using a certain method. There just isn't time enough to do multiple drafts, or to cut a novel by half, etc.

Of course, as Dean Wesley Smith says, it's amazing how many writers lie about teh number of drafts they do because it's too easy to be dismissed as a hack when people find out you only write one draft, plus a clean up second draft. Like hi,. I know a few professional writers who, in interviews and articles, say they write four or five drafts, when in reality they write one draft, and just do a quick, clean up second draft.

I know one writer, a very well-known literary writer, who always takes four years to write a novel, but I happen to know he procrastinates for three and a half years, and then writes the complete novel in six months. I've had editors tell me they know writers who do exactly the same.

So I guess you never really know how a writer writes, except by his output.

[aadams73]

Careful. It may stick.

I only tried that last year as part of my and Lori's "Let's swap methods for a laugh" experiment and it worked so well I used it for the following book (which I'm now editing) and likely for future projects too.

Hmmm... Stay tuned. I just started something new, so I'm going to try this.

[Aggy B.]

I underwrite.

The important thing for me in a first draft is the central plot. I may touch on subplots but I don't give them the same kind of attention as the "main story." When I revise I reconsider those subplots and flesh out the ones that still need a little more love. (I also cut out a lot of dead stuff and rewrite until it's all shiny.)

In the end I get a story that's the length it needs to be.

[Linda Adams]

I underwrite--and not by choice. I would love to come close to the minimum word count, but I'm usually 30-40K under it.

[desperadium]

Neither really; i put in roughly the same as i'd taken out already. I lean towards underwrite. I hate overly descriptive books.

[ishtar'sgate]

Do you overwrite your manuscript and cut the word count to fit your desires, or do you underwrite it and let revisions help you reach your goals? Personally, I underwrite and revise because that's what I found to be most effective for me, but I've heard of many authors who overwrite.

Why do you write the way you do?
I don't plan either way. I try to write an interesting story using as many words as I think I need. Overwriting is, for me, a waste of time and words. Underwriting is unsatisfying. During rewrites I cut or expand as necessary.

[EFCollins]

I underwrite. Most of my first drafts are entirely dialog, action and reaction. No description of anything, very little narrative although some thought process does make it in the first draft. This is usually. The novel I'm currently writing is apparently a different breed of horse.

[kaitiepaige17]

Underwrite a little, but it really depends on the story. I wrote my first novel when I was sixteen, and it turned out to be 86k. Now for some reason, even though I have more experience, I have trouble reaching that many words, so I just finish the first draft then add in all the detail.

[blacbird]

Overwrite. Always. Then become a ferocious editor.

caw

[blacbird]

when an editor says write me a 79,281 word novel in thirty days, and I will buy it, all those ideas, theories, this is best, that is best rules vanish instantly, and you will find a way to do exactly that.

Which, as you have pointed out, is completely useless advice to nearly all of us.

It's like telling someone to buy a Bentley or a Rolls Royce, because those are best cars. Yeah, but . . .

caw

[DisobedientWriter]

I overwrite. For some reason, I always mistake this for cadence in first drafts. Then I cut cut cut.

[Rhys Cordelle]

I'm definitely an overwriter. I get some strange satisfaction from ruthlessly cutting the fat out of my work, but if I have to bulk it up to reach my word count I often get blocked.

[shaldna]

Do you overwrite your manuscript and cut the word count to fit your desires, or do you underwrite it and let revisions help you reach your goals? Personally, I underwrite and revise because that's what I found to be most effective for me, but I've heard of many authors who overwrite.

Why do you write the way you do?


Neither. I practice 'first draft that is almost a final draft' I don't cut or add for length, and I do minimal revision because I don't have the time or the inclination to edit my work like that.

Why would I give myself extra work now by overwriting and more work later by underwriting? Why not just take an extra few minutes and get it right now?

Perhaps it's because I write everything longhand first, I'm more aware of what I'm writing and I have to think abotu it more as I do.

My final word count will only differ from my FD by about 2000 words, give or take.

[pretticute80]

I overwrite on purpose. IMO, it’s easier to subtract than add. If I already have the words there, I don’t have to think of what’s missing and just need to tightening things up to flow right but if the words aren’t there, it usually take me longer to edit the scene. My first draft usually contain a lot of back-story I would cut but in order to get the story out of my head properly, I tend to need to write it all in and clean it up later.
If I did have a deadline, I probably would still overwrite but chances are at a faster pace. Lol but then again who knows ...necessity is the mother of motivation.

[Shadow_Ferret]

First draft: I underwrite.

Second draft: I underwrite. My first draft is like a skeleton.

Third draft: I tend to write the first draft quickly, leaving out everything but the main points, then later I go back and flesh everything out. I underwrite.

[maestrowork]

Overwrite. Underwrite. Don't matter. What matters is

Just write.


The rest, you can fix in Re-Write.

[barbilarry]

Underwrite. I always get the story down first, then look for ways to layer in deeper meaning and develop the characters better. I just think it's easier to add than to subtract. Once it's down it's a lot harder to get rid of it, both from an emotional standpoint and a technical standpoint. One thing might be interconnected to too many other aspects of the story and it's a pain to prune it all out.

What she said! Plus, I was really distressed for a month. Then a very wise man advised me to leave the problem where it was and move on. I started to think like Danthia. I can go back and layer for deeper meaning, during rewrites. Now I am within two chapters of finishing. knowing I could do the layering during the rewrites saved me!

[scope]

I overwrite and then cut before submitting to my agent. However, I think that has something to do with writing nonfiction. My initial research often reveal lots of information, much of which I think may work well in the manuscript. I work it in and then cut what I don't think applies -- or in some cases it's the best cut in order to get to the desired word count.