Starting novel with dialogue

ILUVJLD · Feb 9, 2010

I searched but couldn't find anything. Sorry if this has been posted. But I heard it was frowned upon to start a novel with dialogue. My novel is in first person and is about a gay guy/straight guy friendship that starts to blur the lines of sexuality. Here's my first two lines

"You haven't met my brother yet, have you?"
That's the first time I heard about him. When that's all he simply was, him.

I just dont' want to start off with points against me. Let me know your opinions.

dpaterso · Feb 10, 2010

I've read the same advice. I reckon it applies to longer exchanges where the talking characters are undefined blanks and dialogue has zero context, so it's harder for the reader to understand what the heck they're talking about. One opening line, not so much of a problem.

-Derek

blacbird · Feb 10, 2010

dpaterso said:
I've read the same advice. I reckon it applies to longer exchanges where the talking characters are undefined blanks and dialogue has zero context, so it's harder for the reader to understand what the heck they're talking about. One opening line, not so much of a problem.

"What's it going to be then, eh?"

-- opening line from A Clockwork Orange, by Anthony Burgess.

Which was followed by a crisply written paragraph of descriptive narrative that totally establishes scene and characters. A long stretch of dialogue, even with attribution by name, generally doesn't work, for lack of context. But a single line, even two, can often be effective. This "rule" is much like the one about never using a preposition to end a sentence with.

caw

kaitie · Feb 10, 2010

Eh, I do it. Whether I do it successfully or not is another matter, but the point is as long as it works and it's done right, it's fine.

DrZoidberg · Feb 10, 2010

I love it. Another piece of authorly advice is, get to the action straight away. Starting with dialogue certainly does that.

dpaterso · Feb 10, 2010

DrZoidberg said:
Another piece of authorly advice is, get to the action straight away. Starting with dialogue certainly does that.

Some (well okay, me) might argue that dialogue isn't action, but that's probably a picky personal perception thing.

-Derek

Stijn Hommes · Feb 10, 2010

The problem with advice, is that is usually ripped from the context it was given in. People who recommend against opening with dialogue want avoid having talking heads with no personality talking about something the reader has no clue about.

That said, throwing down the gauntlet and forcing the reader to face questions straight away is a way to get them involved in the story.

My advice would be to finish the story and put it to some non-writer friends and see what they think about the opening.

gothicangel · Feb 10, 2010

If it works, it works.

It sounds good to me anyway.

Bufty · Feb 10, 2010

Opening with dialogue out of the blue needs to be thought about very carefully and should have a purpose other than simply being a clever or gimmicky start.

While the writer knows in advance exactly who is saying what to whom, where, when, how and why, it should be remembered the reader does not.

The reader starts from scratch and can only build images and pictures from what he reads as he reads it.

In my humble opinion the quoted lines in the original post contain too many pronouns and lack clarity.

But finish the story while the momentum is good and worry about how to start once you're finished - the starting point can sometimes become clearer or may require to be changed once one has finished the tale and can see the whole picture.

backslashbaby · Feb 10, 2010

I like it if you are given who is saying what very quickly. It doesn't have to be exactly who, but build the scene. Let us be there, too. Voices floating around can be hard on visual folks

Jamesaritchie · Feb 10, 2010

It is frowned on because it's usually done poorly, without purpose, or with bland dialogue that doesn't make the reader want to read the next line.

The right line of dialogue can make for a great opening, but finding that right line can be tough, and if the line is actively bad or boring, it can stop an agent or editor from reading the next line.

I really hate the philosophy "if it works, do it." That's fine for a hard science, or even for a mechanical problem, but writing isn't like an engine that you can experiment on, and then try to start to to see if your experiment worked. Every last writer out there thinks his writing works, or he wouldn't submit it. Very little submitted fiction works.

Having said that, soem very good fiction opens with dialogue, when the writer finds just the right character, and has that character say just the right thing.

third person · Feb 10, 2010

I frown upon writers who worry about things that are frowned upon. And then I weep. Our kind would never have gotten anywhere if we obsessed about what's frowned upon, you hear?

maestrowork · Feb 10, 2010

We writers should understand what are rules (such as the grammatically correct way to use semicolons) and what are just opinions, best practices or general guidelines.

And all writers should learn how to break rules, but ONLY after they know what the rules are.

Happy writing.

Jamesaritchie · Feb 10, 2010

third person said:
I frown upon writers who worry about things that are frowned upon. And then I weep. Our kind would never have gotten anywhere if we obsessed about what's frowned upon, you hear?

If you don't worry about what's frowned upon, you'll probably never write what isn't frowned upon.

It's not a matter of obsession, but of common sense. If you don;t learn from those who have gone before, and if you don't know what why something is frowned upon, why such advice is out there, how on earth are you going to get anything right?

I don't know what "our kind" means, but I do know there's always a sound and solid reason why any given thing is frowned on, and if you don't know that reason, you're in trouble.

cbenoi1 · Feb 10, 2010

> "You haven't met my brother yet, have you?"
> That's the first time I heard about him. When that's all he simply was, him.

Forget about rules. Where's the hook?

-cb

kellion92 · Feb 10, 2010

Soooo many published books begin this way, and I personally like dialogue openings. But I have read this advice often and thus changed my own opening to avoid dialogue. When you're starting out, who needs extra hurdles to jump over?

Then again I just picked up a well-reviewed book that began, "It was going to be a beautiful day." What could be more dull? But this was the author's fourth or fifth novel, and obviously the rules are different for different people. (I didn't keep reading. I was a little iffy on it anyway, and the opening didn't draw me in).

gothicangel · Feb 10, 2010

Does it have to be spoken dialogue?

Take the first lines of Pride and Prejudice [It's a truth universally acknowledged . . .] These days it's a popular misconception that it's dialogue [thanks to the BBC adaption], it isn't, it's the narratorial voice.

IceCreamEmpress · Feb 10, 2010

I bet this isn't the most interesting way you can start this book.

C.M.C. · Feb 10, 2010

Good writing excuses everything.

Wayne R. · Feb 10, 2010

I tried it for myself once, kind of an exercise because I find dialogue hard to write. The opening chapter was a conversation between four characters. Each had to be different in the way they spoke so you could track the conversation, and the hope was that by the end of the story you'd be able to re-read it and know exactly who'd said what.
Whether it worked or not isn't for me to say, but I wasn't reading a rulebook as I worked on it so it seemed fair game at the time.

DennisB · Feb 11, 2010

If it works, it works.
But to make it work, the character should probably say something interesting. "This will be the day that I die," Joe said..... would work (Apologies to Don McLean.)

"Would you like that tuna sandwich with mayo or salad dressing?" asked the waitress... had better be backed up with something really strong in the next couple of sentences.

Lady Ice · Feb 13, 2010

cbenoi1 said:
> "You haven't met my brother yet, have you?"
> That's the first time I heard about him. When that's all he simply was, him.

Forget about rules. Where's the hook?

-cb

I think it's a hook. The reader has presumably already read the blurb and those first lines trigger the thought in the reader's head that this 'him' is going to be very important. And it's believable.

Dialogue can make a bad beginning because it's either too boring: 'Hello, Mary', or too obvious: 'I'm going to kill you, Billy!', or too clever for its own good: 'You look at me like the ocean looks at the sky'.

Generally the worst sort of beginning is either starting a lengthy description or a trite epigram: 'Love is like fine wine...'

Adagio · Feb 14, 2010

""Darlings! Welcome! And you must be Danielle?" Sleek and small, her wide eyes rendered enormous by kohl, Lucy Leverett, in spite of her resemblance to a baby seal, rasped impressively. Her dangling fan earrings clanked at her neck as she leaned in to kiss each of them, Danielle too, and although she held her cigarette, in its mother-of-pearl holder, at arm's length, its smoke wafted between them and brought tears to Danielle's eyes."

This is how The Emperor's Children by Claire Messud, a highly praised literary novelist, begins. The novel received good reviews. Danielle is one of the main characters, and Lucy Leverett will disappear after the first chapter. Danielle and her friends visit Lucy, the host of a party, where Danielle will meet another main character. I believe this kind of beginning is a way to introduce characters. It's not dialogue, though. I loved the novel.

Adagio

Starting novel with dialogue

ILUVJLD

dpaterso

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

blacbird

kaitie

With great power comes

DrZoidberg

aka TomOfSweden

dpaterso

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

Stijn Hommes

Know what you write...

gothicangel

Toughen up.

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

backslashbaby

*

Jamesaritchie

third person

She blinded me--with magic!

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Jamesaritchie

cbenoi1

kellion92

A cat may not look at a king

gothicangel

Toughen up.

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

C.M.C.

Archetype

Wayne R.

DennisB

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

Adagio

Starting novel with dialogue

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

With great power comes

aka TomOfSweden

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

Know what you write...

Toughen up.

Where have the last ten years gone?

~~~~*~~~~

She blinded me--with magic!

Fear the Death Ray

A cat may not look at a king

Toughen up.

Hapless Virago

Archetype

Makes useful distinctions

*