Past or present tense?

[aruna]

For some reason I hate books written in present tense. They just sound fake to me, feel contrived. It's funny but books in past tense feel more present than present tense. Any explanation to that? Anyone else get irritated by present tense. Oh sh*t - does anyone here actually WRITE in present tense???

[azbikergirl]

I feel the same way. If I pick up a book written in present tense, I'll put it right back down. It annoys me.

[scribbler1382]

Present tense always reads like an outline or synopsis to me. Like what the writer puts down just before they actually write the story.

[aruna]

Present tense always reads like an outline or synopsis to me. Like what the writer puts down just before they actually write the story.

Exactly! I agree. It feels like the jotting down of ideas.

[Ivonia]

I know how you feel. I'm kind of in the same boat. Right now I'm scanning through my novel again, and fixing the present/past tense issues I made (I generally prefer past tense myself).

My creative writing professor told me that I should write in present tense, but again, I just don't seem to like doing it (cept when I'm writing a screenplay, where it's sort of mandatory that you do present tense, which is probably why I'm mixing the past/present tense stuff so much in my novel. Oh well, I would like to master both formats someday :)).

A question to experienced writers out there. Does it ultimately matter which one you use, so long as you're consistent with it? Or is one format generally preferred over another?

[Garpy]

I believe present tense is viewed as being 'trendy', sassy, edgy...for that reason I've noticed one or two YA books (not fantasy but teen-issue books) that I've read recently have been present tense. I recently read 'Be More Chill' by Ned Vizzini, and I couldn't recall if that was past or present. I've just opened it up and realised it's present...so, I guess personally speaking it doesn't bother me, doesn't even register with me one way or the other. All I would say is that I think present tense is suitable in some settings and not others. I'd say historical novels, or a work designed to appear traditional, classic even...it would be inappropriate for.

[brinkett]

Present tense doesn't bother me. I'm more turned off by first person, and often present tense is also in first person.

[Sara Rachael Hope]

I usually write in 1st person (nowdays) because I had re-written my 1st novel about my life into 3rd person. That made it extremely confusing.
If I want to edit my writing now, it makes it easier to edit it because a lot of it is in past tense.
It isn't easy writing as though I am no longer present yet it is very beneficial for me (and possibly others).

[MystiAnne]

It matters like it matters whether your boat is made of teak or sheet metal.

Every choice in a novel matters, will produce a particular effect in the reader.

Because past tense is both the over-riding convention AND a natural fit to telling a story that has already happened, it is the "invisible" choice. So if you choose present tense (outside of screenplay, where present tense is the invisible choice), you are telling the reader a host of things, for example:

- the narrator has not processed or evaluated the events (first person)
- stronger sense of intimacy (depending somewhat on what the present tense
narrator is saying).
- strong suggestion of first person (I've never picked up a present-tense,
third-person story, but I don't get out much).

But seriously, every choice you make has an effect on the reader, every single word.

[Sara Rachael Hope]

Well I certainly don't want to drive the reader 'nuts' and/or give myself a headache re-reading and editing it...or writing it either!
It's not easy writing one's life story as if it has already past, you know?, even though most of it has (already. Even as I type this word...after the last ones I just typed!):)

[mistri]

I've written one short story in present tense, and it was a struggle to write. Similarly, I find it a struggle to read. I wouldn't say a good story can't be written in present tense, but I think it's that much harder to do well, and so the reader isn't constantly aware of the style, rather than the story.

[KimJo]

Most of my YA stuff tends to be in first person, past tense. I do attempt third person sometimes but it doesn't interest me as much. I have one novel (on its second rejection now) that's in present tense because that was just the way it came out; I couldn't get it to work in past tense no matter what I did.

[Richard]

I can't stand present tense writing.

[maestrowork]

Ooops, my first book is written in present tense. I guess I am pretentious.

[Garpy]

One thing Ive noticed is....if you start a WIP either in past or present...it's really hard to reverse that decision. Once I get in the groove, one way or the other, I find it impossible to think of that tale in another tense.

[maestrowork]

Exactly! I agree. It feels like the jotting down of ideas.

I don't think mine reads like that.

It all depends on the writer's skills. ;)

[cwfgal]

As long as the writing is well done and the story maintains my interest, I don't care what tense it's written in. In fact, if the writing is good enough, I often don't notice what tense it's in, though my writer's eye may eventually overrule my reader's eye and make note of it.

Beth

[WriterInChains]

- the narrator has not processed or evaluated the events (first person)
- stronger sense of intimacy (depending somewhat on what the present tense
narrator is saying).

But seriously, every choice you make has an effect on the reader, every single word.



Wow . . . I finished a novel this spring that's in present tense & I hadn't thought of it this way but this is exactly what I was going for with my wonderfully un-reliable narrator. Thanks for putting it down like this!

I like first-person stories, and present tense brings me into a story a lot quicker than past, just pick up any of Chuck Palahniuk's fiction [pre-Haunted] and you'll see what I mean. Some stories can't be told that way, though. The novel I'm working on now is in past, for its own reasons, and it's going very well so far!

[aruna]

I don't think mine reads like that.

It all depends on the writer's skills. ;)

How could you!!! I hate it!!! It's terrible!!!!;)

[GonnaBeFamous]

Thats how screenplays are. Argh!!!!! :)

[Jamesaritchie]

I love first person, and I can tolerate present tense in some short stories, but not in novels. To me, it usually reads fake, pretentious, and boring as all heck.

Worse, I don't believe it. The story is not happening as I read it, and suspending disbelief in impossible.

I've rad two novels I liked that were written in present tense, and I liked both despite the tense, not because of it. The present tense just got in the way and came across as a poor gimmick.

[scarletpeaches]

Hello everyone - newbie here.

I thought it was quite funny that there seem to be so many people who go "ICK!" at present tense. A few years ago I was writing in past and found that it was very stop-and-start, jerky, oh good Lord it took aaaaaaaages to write a 'normal size' novel then for some reason I figured, to rewrite it and try to make it fresher, I would start again from the beginning and edit it all into present tense and from then on it worked, it flowed, I wrote a lot faster (even when not merely editing, but writing from scratch).

When I read novels I don't tend to notice in which tense they are written, I mean, I'm aware of it but it doesn't really register. I've heard one author in particular say she absolutely hates it (steady on love!) as it's pretentious on the part of the writer to make out "Ooh I don't know what happens next, I'm going to be as surprised as you, dear reader!"

So what. It works for me. Maybe if I was asked to write in past, I could write the entire think in present and edit it all into past, but hey - it works for me. Saves me having to work out all those flashback problems - did she? Had she? She had once done this? Had she in the past done or did?

Aw, you know what I mean.

[scribbler1382]

I'm glad that you find writing a more enjoyable pasttime now, but I've never really thought that writing was suppose to be easy. If I tried to do two things and one was harder, I'd probably end up choosing the harder one. Easy is boring. But ultimately, the goal should be to make it easy/enjoyable/etc. for the reader, not the writer. IMO, anyways.

[scarletpeaches]

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough (oh yeah, a great way for a writer to go...) What I meant was, I find it easier to get 'in the zone' when writing in present tense - a sign that this is the way I'm 'meant' to write? Perhaps. I feel it lends itself to immediacy...

It's like third person. That's the way I write naturally. I just can't write in first. It feels...somehow 'wrong'.

I guess with present tense I just more easily found my voice.

[Jamesaritchie]

Hello everyone - newbie here.

I thought it was quite funny that there seem to be so many people who go "ICK!" at present tense. A few years ago I was writing in past and found that it was very stop-and-start, jerky, oh good Lord it took aaaaaaaages to write a 'normal size' novel then for some reason I figured, to rewrite it and try to make it fresher, I would start again from the beginning and edit it all into present tense and from then on it worked, it flowed, I wrote a lot faster (even when not merely editing, but writing from scratch).

When I read novels I don't tend to notice in which tense they are written, I mean, I'm aware of it but it doesn't really register. I've heard one author in particular say she absolutely hates it (steady on love!) as it's pretentious on the part of the writer to make out "Ooh I don't know what happens next, I'm going to be as surprised as you, dear reader!"

So what. It works for me. Maybe if I was asked to write in past, I could write the entire think in present and edit it all into past, but hey - it works for me. Saves me having to work out all those flashback problems - did she? Had she? She had once done this? Had she in the past done or did?

Aw, you know what I mean.

You'll find the general populace doesn't care much for present tense at all. This is why so few present tense novels find a publisher.

But that writer only thinks it's pretentious for a writer to say he doesn't know what happens next because she can't write that way, so she assumes no one else can, either. But this has nothing to do with past or present tense.

Flashbacks have nothing to with with past or present tense, either, and present tense need flashbacks the same way and for the same reasons past tense needs them. More so, probably.

[Carlene]

I can't stand present tense novels either and don't read them. If I pick up a book that's written in the present tense, I put it down and go for another book - soooo many books, so little time.

Carlene

www.crdater.com (http://www.crdater.com)

[maestrowork]

Actually a lot of best sellers (including Stephen King's) and award-winning books (e.g. House of Fog and Sand) are written in first person/present tense. By the way, present tense seem to only work with first person, IMHO.

I can understand why some readers say things like "I hate..." because they're used to third person, past tense. It's all about preferences and familiarity -- most books are written in past tense. I chose first person/present tense because my protagonist is an "unreliable narrator" and also, I want the readers to go along the journey, discovering with the protagonist as the events unfold. Also, the readers, as they read the story, will notice the change in the narrator's emotions, views, and voice, as the narrator matures. I knew it was a gamble but I felt that it was the right way for the story. I know some people would hate it, just as some people would hate swear words or head-popping or _fill_in_the_blanks... The bottom line is, it depends on the story and how the writer handles it.

To me, I think it's fitting that my story is told in first person/present tense. It's a challenge, and I think if I can rise above the challenge and prejudice, it says something about my skills as a writer.

I'll just have to go by my own experience. None of my readers, as well the agents and editors who read the ms. had anything to say about first person/present tense. My publisher and my editor never said one word about that. I guess I'll have to read the reviews and see if it is a problem.

[hpoppink]

My preference is to read third person limited, past tense. But that is only a preference, not an automatic veto.

If the first pages of a book grab me, it doesn't matter what narrative was used. I'll still buy it, read it, and (usually) like it.

[scarletpeaches]

And as a matter of fact, DBC Pierre writes in the first person present, and Ian McEwen in the third person present - and both authors are winners of the Booker Prize. So yes, in fact, present tense can be and is, alive and kicking. :)

I do, however, on looking over these two authors works, think that present tense is better suited to first person. In third person it can sometimes be a bit jerky, certain sentences can yank you out of the story and break down the suspension of disbelief. Suddenly you remember you're reading a book.

Oh hell, it's four in the morning and I'm a dog-tired insomniac. Perhaps I'll make more sense after I get some sleep...if I do.:sleepy:

[Jamesaritchie]

There are certainly award winning novels written in present tense, but as often as not, they won the award because they were written in present tense, and that's considered ever so "literary" in many circles. Such novels seldom have great sales, and almost always very low ratings with the public at large.

Did Stephen King have a present tense bestseller. Must have missed that one, or blocked it out. Oh, wait, was it Black House, the novel called the "worst sequel of all time?"

I don't hate present tense because I'm used to past, I hate it because to me it always reads like a gimmick, and is almost always completely unconvincing. I simply think it's always the poorest choice.

The only pure present tense novel I've ever been able to read was written in second person, not first.

I love Moby Dick, but Melville did a very wise thing by slipping into past tense whenever necessary. Pure present tense at novel length is something I simply find unreadable, gimmicky, and unbelievable.

Which does not mean it shouldn't be used, or that others might not love it. But a novel written in present tense is an automatic reject for me.

[aspiringwriter]

The few novles i've attempted to write were told in first person...to me it's more like listening to someone tell a story. Although third person works too...:) I guess it's all a matter of preference... Me..I like the first-person!!!

[Thekherham]

Most of my writing is in third person-past tense, but I did write one novel that is frist-person-present tense... probably the only one I will ever write using that form, but it just seemed to fit the situation, and the character.
I am also reading a novel that is written in present tense, although it is written in third person. I don't really care what tense or viewpoint the novel is written in, as long as the author tells a good story.
And even poorer choice than first-person, present-tense is a second-person viewpoint. As in, "You step out of the elevator and see the cops waiting for you. You don't know what to do, so you quickly head for the kitchen--"
Now there is gimmick for you.

[alaskamatt17]

I've written in present tense before, but I wouldn't ever attempt to write an entire novel in it. In one of my short stories I couldn't write in past tense, so I tried present tense just to beat writer's block. It worked.

[maestrowork]

Which does not mean it shouldn't be used, or that others might not love it. But a novel written in present tense is an automatic reject for me.

It's kind of like writers who say, "I don't ever read prologues." I think to say something written in present tense is an "automatic reject" or "I immediately put the book back" shows more about your own bias than whether the book is good or not. To me, it's not really a gimmick. It's more like listening to an old friend telling you a story. Most people tell stories using present tense:

"So Mary and I walk into the bar, and see a three-headed guy sitting there drinking whiskey. I say, 'Look, that guy has three heads' and Mary laughs so hard she almost falls down."


Maybe you should read my book and see what you think. ;) -- I know, I know, too many books, too little time.

[maestrowork]

I believe "The Time Traveler's Wife" is 1st person/present tense from two POVs. I liked the book, and the present tense does not bother me one bit -- although once in a while the author did violate certain rules about "present tense" -- she's fortelling something... which is extremely "jarring" for present tense storytelling. Those problems could have been fixed by a keen editor's eye.

[aruna]

I don't hate present tense because I'm used to past, I hate it because to me it always reads like a gimmick, and is almost always completely unconvincing. I simply think it's always the poorest choice.

.

Exactly! It's a gimmick because the story obviosuly isn't happening in present tense: because if things are happening NOW, then the narrator would be writing, not doing whatever he's narrating. So I feel it's unnatural. Mind you, I have enjoyed some present tensenovels but that's in spite of the tense, not because of it. It always jars, I always notice it. Perhaps "hate" was too strong a word, perhaps "pretentious" was too judgmental... let's just say it makes me too aware of the voice and not of the story.

[aruna]

I believe "The Time Traveler's Wife" is 1st person/present tense from two POVs. I liked the book, and the present tense does not bother me one bit -- although once in a while the author did violate certain rules about "present tense" -- she's fortelling something... which is extremely "jarring" for present tense storytelling. Those problems could have been fixed by a keen editor's eye.

That's one of my next books - it's on my table, borrowed from the library. Heard so much about it but it doesn't sound at all promising. Have to give it a chance!

[brinkett]

It's kind of like writers who say, "I don't ever read prologues." I think to say something written in present tense is an "automatic reject" or "I immediately put the book back" shows more about your own bias than whether the book is good or not.
Exactly, and there's nothing wrong with that. I've read a lot of books and have learned what type of books I'm most likely to enjoy. What I've learned is that I prefer books written in 3rd person past tense. Books written in first person don't do it for me. Books written in present tense aren't an automatic turnoff, but since they're usually written in first person, I'd prefer to spend my money on one of the other 100,000 books that are published each year. Spending money on products I'm most likely to enjoy over those I'm not is a perfectly logical thing for a consumer to do.

[skylarburris]

I generally don't like reading novels in present tense. I find it takes me 20 pages before I can get "used" to it and read naturally and freely. There may be some exceptions, but for the most part, I find it a nuisance to read.

[azbikergirl]

I chose first person/present tense because my protagonist is an "unreliable narrator" and also, I want the readers to go along the journey, discovering with the protagonist as the events unfold. Also, the readers, as they read the story, will notice the change in the narrator's emotions, views, and voice, as the narrator matures.
Those are exactly the reasons I chose third person subjective, past tense! :)

[Mistook]

I've been mulling this one over. I wondered at first if past tense gives a writer more flexibility. I checked my facts (for once) and I guess both present and past have the same variations - simple, perfect, progressive, and perfect progressive.

So I suppose one doesn't have the advantage over the other, as far as flexibility. I don't know exactly why it is that past tense feels more natural than present.

[Mike Martyn]

I'm doing rewrites of my first novel in which I've I put the dream sequences/ out of body experiece stuff in the present tense. There are four such sequences each of no more than a few hundred words. The rest of the ms is limited POV from three main characters.

Any thoughts on this especially from those who appear to dislike the use of present tense?

[SJB]

I chose first person/present tense because my protagonist is an "unreliable narrator" and also, I want the readers to go along the journey, discovering with the protagonist as the events unfold. Also, the readers, as they read the story, will notice the change in the narrator's emotions, views, and voice, as the narrator matures. I knew it was a gamble but I felt that it was the right way for the story.

I for one can't wait to read your novel, maestrowork. When will we be able to order it?

The brilliant Vikram Seth did something something wonderful with first-person / present tense in An Equal Music, for similar reasons to those which you advance. Read an excerpt here (http://www.randomhouse.com/boldtype/0599/seth/excerpt.html).

[Mistook]

I'm doing rewrites of my first novel in which I've I put the dream sequences/ out of body experiece stuff in the present tense. There are four such sequences each of no more than a few hundred words. The rest of the ms is limited POV from three main characters.

Any thoughts on this especially from those who appear to dislike the use of present tense?


It sounds like that could work. I'd have to read it to know for sure. My WIP is in past 3rd limited, but one of the POV characters keeps a journal. Her journal entries are in first person (present)...


Thursday, February 24th, 1994, 7PM –

I feel like crap. I’m still seeing tracers and halo’s but Sienna’s little practical joke is mostly out of my system. What kind of freaky little cult was she trying to haze me into joining? I hate suburban kids!





but there are a few passages where she sums up some backstory she's learned from reading a few documents. When she sums it up, she tells it in 3rd person present tense.


When Pete and Ryan form the Jamburgs, Nide is on cloud nine. He sees them as the Illinois answer to Nirvana, and waits for them to take their act to Chicago, knowing he can make them into stars. But they never take it to Chicago. They just fart around the FoxValley most of the time.




And lastly, whenever a character is telling about a past event, they always tell it in present tense...


“It was ****in’ possessed! It rolls out of the mail truck, across the highway, during rush-hour! It causes a ten car pile-up, but never gets a scratch! They all slam on the brakes for it, just like a basketball. It’s a human instinct.”

[aes25]

I never read it as pretentious, and to be honest I don't even notice as long as the tense works with the novel. Skill is skill, and skilled writers make choices. Present tense implies immediacy, and a narrating voice that isn't looking back on something that has already happened. In past-tense, the narrator often carries along all the emotional growth and knowledge that came from living or observing the story that has already happened. In present-tense writing, this perspective is removed, the story is unfolding as you read. If a story is good, I barely even pay attention to the tense. I even read a book in 2nd-person present tense that I thought was pretty solid (though I'd never advise anyone to try it unless they REALLY knew what they were doing, heh).

Like 1st person, it's probably overused. But rejecting it for the sake of rejecting it seems pretty close-minded. I mean, I hate the Minnesota Vikings for no good reason, and I cheer when they lose, but I'm not going to argue they are devoid of football merit simply because they rub me the wrong way.

[aruna]

I'm doing rewrites of my first novel in which I've I put the dream sequences/ out of body experiece stuff in the present tense. There are four such sequences each of no more than a few hundred words. The rest of the ms is limited POV from three main characters.

Any thoughts on this especially from those who appear to dislike the use of present tense?

If Ihave a character thinking, I also use present tense - but only for short passages.

[Greer]

There are certainly award winning novels written in present tense, but as often as not, they won the award because they were written in present tense, and that's considered ever so "literary" in many circles.

James, I think this may have been the case forty or fifty years ago, when present tense was relatively uncommon. It is no longer the case. I don't know one reputable editor or critic who believes present tense to be any more "literary" than past.

Such novels seldom have great sales, and almost always very low ratings with the public at large.

This is the fourth or fifth time I've seen you mention some sort of "ratings" or "poll" of the "public at large." I've never seen such data, but would be very interested to check it out. Would you mind sharing your sources? (I'm asking this question in earnest.)

Personally, I often find present tense to be irritating because when it is not done well it is glaringly bad. However, I am currently in the middle of "The Master of Petersburg," by JM Coetzee, which is in present tense, and finding it seamless. It is Coetzee, of course.

[Mike Martyn]

It sounds like that could work. I'd have to read it to know for sure.

...Thanks

My WIP is in past 3rd limited, but one of the POV characters keeps a journal. Her journal entries are in first person (present)...

....That makes sense.




but there are a few passages where she sums up some backstory she's learned from reading a few documents. When she sums it up, she tells it in 3rd person present tense.






And lastly, whenever a character is telling about a past event, they always tell it in present tense...

.......So the pov is third person past tense for stuff that's happening in the present and third person present tense for something that happens in the past? I suppose there is a certain logic to that.

How do you set it up so the reader understands you are writing about the past? Something like this?

"Years had passed but the memory never left him. The driver's body slumps and the vehicle careens sideways, through the guard rail to shatter on the rocks below."

It would work for intense memories but what about last night's menu?

[Mistook]

.......So the pov is third person past tense for stuff that's happening in the present and third person present tense for something that happens in the past? I suppose there is a certain logic to that.

How do you set it up so the reader understands you are writing about the past? Something like this?

"Years had passed but the memory never left him. The driver's body slumps and the vehicle careens sideways, through the guard rail to shatter on the rocks below."

It would work for intense memories but what about last night's menu?


I only convert to present tense through a character voice, either in the journal, or if they're recounting (quickly) a story in dialogue. The logic behind it is that these little info-dumps will go down easier if the verb tense is different from the normal narrative.


If you're changing tense for flashbacks, still in the narrative voice, then I'm not sure of the best way to handle the transition. In your example, it might be better to go with present progressive...

"Years had passed, but the memory was as vivid as ever: A driver's body slumping over. A vehicle careening sideways through a guard rail. Falling. Shattering on the rocks below."

[katiemac]

I believe "The Time Traveler's Wife" is 1st person/present tense from two POVs. I liked the book, and the present tense does not bother me one bit -- although once in a while the author did violate certain rules about "present tense" -- she's fortelling something... which is extremely "jarring" for present tense storytelling. Those problems could have been fixed by a keen editor's eye.

Funny you bring this one up. This was the last first person/present tense novel I read, and it annoyed me immensely the entire way through. I don't think it was the present tense itself, but the "voice" of both characters. I found myself rolling my eyes at complete passages and contemplating tossing it out.

But, I can never not finish a book once I start. Except my own.

[maestrowork]

Funny you bring this one up. This was the last first person/present tense novel I read, and it annoyed me immensely the entire way through.

I wasn't that annoyed. ;) The point is, a book like that could sell millions of copies, and in this case, it was driven entirely by word of mouth. And soon there will a movie.

So obviously people are reading novels in 1st person/present tense and loving them...

[aruna]

I wasn't that annoyed. ;) The point is, a book like that could sell millions of copies, and in this case, it was driven entirely by word of mouth. And soon there will a movie.


I'm reading it now. It's quite well done for such a complicated setup but I simplycan't suspend my disbelief enough to get into it fully. And yes, the present tense does jar on me. But maybe I'm extra aware of it due to this thread. Alse as I mentioned I'm getting much too hard to please with novels - I just am not in synch with the majority of readers, I guess. I hope that does not bode evil for my own books...

[Katiba]

Many chick lit books are written in present tense, often first person but sometimes third. The Shopaholic books, for example, are written this way (first person present.) And whatever your opinion on the literary value of chick lit, they're definitely not pretentious literary novels and they sell very well.

[aruna]

Many chick lit books are written in present tense, often first person but sometimes third. The Shopaholic books, for example, are written this way (first person present.) And whatever your opinion on the literary value of chick lit, they're definitely not pretentious literary novels and they sell very well.

Actually, I think present tense is so mainstream these days you can find it anywhere, in all genres, used with all qualities of writing.

[Danger Jane]

It bugged me for a little while, but in certain types of stories I think it really supplements the feel of the book. If it's done well, and used not just for the novelty (it seems to me that present tense is becoming more popular lately), or because the novel's first-person and the author can't figure out how to get the past-tensing right, present tense can work for me. It lends itself better to spontaneity, I think, because if it's first-person and past tense, you know that whatever misfortune must have subsided a little, because they've survived to tell about it. But if it's in present tense, it feels much more instant, and anything, just ANYTHING, can happen. It occasionally annoys me, but I've learned to live with the tensing.

[maestrowork]

House and Sand and Fog is written from two 1st person POVs -- one in past tense, and one in present tense. Don't ask me why. But the guy is a great writer, and I think he pulls it off.

I mean, when Stephen King even does it, you know 1st person/present is mainstream!

I really do think it comes down to your own preference. Some people, for example, hate omniscient POV. It has nothing to do with whether 1st/present is inherently wrong or pretentious or whatever. I think it's just a bias based on our own reading habbits...

To me, 1st/present has that "let me tell you a story" feel to it. It's as if the narrator is sitting there telling you something. There's a certain intimacy. Also, it works very well, IMHO, with a lot of showing. Not so well with a lot of "telling."

[Danger Jane]

Showing versus telling, exactly. It's good when things are going on vividly.

[HapiSofi]

Write in past tense unless the book you're working on has some compelling reason to be written in present tense -- which is almost never going to be the case.

I don't care how acceptable or mainstream or successful this or that present-tense book is. The fact remains that many readers are irritated by present tense. Why wish an unnecessary handicap on your book?

Even worse than present tense is writing in the second person. The minute the prose starts saying "You think this, you do that," a bunch of your readers are going to come back with "I do not!" At that point, you've lost them.

Most experiments fail. If you absolutely must use strange spellings or punctuation or other oddities when you compose, do so -- but once the book is written, go through and take all that stuff out.

[Danger Jane]

Do books actually get published in second person? Aside from those Pick-an-Adventure books.

[aruna]

So obviously people are reading novels in 1st person/present tense and loving them...

Maestro: I gave up on TTTW on page 60. It wasn't the present tense so much as the fact I could not suspend my disbelief enough to go along for the ride. It was OK when they met and so on, that was nice. But when he starts meeting up with his own 6 year old self - that just taxed me too much and I felt, this is ridiculous. Also boring. Perhaps him teaching his child-self to picpocket is relevant to the story later on, but it just doesn't grab me now - I want to see how the relationship continues. I started another book. I may go back to TTTW, but as it's a library book I probably won't.
So, I won't join the ranks of the millions of happy readers of that particular book. Told you I was difficult!

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Do books actually get published in second person? Aside from those Pick-an-Adventure books.Yes, they do. A book each by Tom Robbins and Jonathan Carroll come to mind, though I forget which ones. I enjoy pretty much everything those authors put out, so I'm sure I adored it. But then I've never had problems with novels in weird tenses or persons. It's just not something that ever bothered me.

I think the first bit of disbelief that has to be suspended when a reader opens a book is ... I don't know how well I'm going to be able to put it ... one has to suspend the assumption that this story is words on a page told after the fact about events that actually happened. To say "Present tense is bad/unnatural because the only thing the narrator is doing at this very moment is telling the story, not living it--" I think that's a failure of suspension of disbelief. Ditto "Second person is bad because obviously these things never happened to me." To me, those criticisms are similar to the assumption that all fantasy fiction must have unreliable narrators because obviously magic doesn't really work. It's not that the story is bad; it's that the reader didn't consent to go along for the ride.

That doesn't make the reader "bad." It just means that perhaps that reader isn't a good match for that story.

And, true, if the suspensions a novel requires are not ones that the populace at large are prepared to make, that novel probably won't sell. But that doesn't necessarily make it badly written. Whether the audience's limits should inform a writer's choices depends on what that writer's goals are. The muse versus the money, sort of thing.

[maestrowork]

But when he starts meeting up with his own 6 year old self - that just taxed me too much and I felt, this is ridiculous. Also boring. Perhaps him teaching his child-self to picpocket is relevant to the story later on....

Yeah, it's a tough book -- you either like it or don't, because of the romanc + time traveling thing. The time traveling thing (based on genetics) is far-fetched. You have to look at it as some sort of "Somewhere in Time" where you just can't go there as far as the logic is concerned... ;)

*** SPOILER ALERT ****

But yes, meeting with his 6yo self is in important bit: 1) he has no control of his time traveling ability; 2) he can interact with himself; 3) that's when he first knew he could time travel (meeting his older self when he was six); 4) that the time traveling capability don't start until he was about six... it has a point if you read on...

And the pickpocket bit is also important. :)

But yeah, they're not necessarily "plot." They're more like supporting information to make the author's case about what happens next... in general, TTTW is more of a literary/romance than science fiction or thriller or whatever. It's actually quite circular, and the double 1st person is kind of hard to stomach.

Good to know, however, that the 1st person/present tense didn't bother you.

[aruna]

OK, I'll take your word for it and give it another try later - I've moved on to Naipaul's Mystic Masseur, after recently rediscovering him - I'm interested in his early books, before he turned into a crotchety old man, because they are set in trinidad, where I partly grew up. I read it decades ago... gawd i'm gettin' old!

[Kasey Mackenzie]

Do books actually get published in second person? Aside from those Pick-an-Adventure books.

Just a polite request: Could you please make your font at least 12 point? There is no way I can read messages this small, and I'm fairly young with good eyesight when I have my glasses on. This print is way too small for me to get through. Thanks!

[AnneMarble]

For some reason I hate books written in present tense. They just sound fake to me, feel contrived. It's funny but books in past tense feel more present than present tense. Any explanation to that? Anyone else get irritated by present tense. Oh sh*t - does anyone here actually WRITE in present tense???
Depending on the genre, I usually hate the present tense. I've put books back on the shelf because they turned out to be in the present tense, and for no reason that was apparent to me at the time. I've also been disapppointed when I take a book home because it sounds interesting and later learn it's in the present tense. (I usually glance at the book first -- not to find out the tense but to make sure the writing is OK.) OTOH if the book looks interesting enough, I might put up with it anyway.

I've grown somewhat used to it in some genres. For example, present tense is fairly common in legal thrillers, although I get the feeling a lot of the authors are using it only because Scot Turow used in in "Presumed Innocent." I want to shout, "Folks, he used the present tense because it suited that book, not because it suited every single legal thriller ever written!"

Aha! Maybe one thing that annoys me about the present tense is that I often wonder why an author used it. In some cases, it seems that they used it because they saw it in another book and thought it looked cool. Not because their book needed the immediacy, etc. of the present tense.
:Shrug:

BTW when authors originally write a story in one tense and then later change it, they have to edit it verrry carefully. In a critique group, I once read a fantasy story that had been in the past tense and then was changed to present tense. There were stray paste tense phrases scattered all over the place, and it slowed down my progress through the story.

[LightShadow]

Present tense for the whole cabbang sux. Past tense feels more natural. But is that because that's what we're use to? What if books had always been in present tense and a few trendy writers tried to write their books in past tense? Would we be complaining that we don't like past tense as a result?

[aruna]

Present tense for the whole cabbang sux. Past tense feels more natural. But is that because that's what we're use to? What if books had always been in present tense and a few trendy writers tried to write their books in past tense? Would we be complaining that we don't like past tense as a result?

The storytelling tradition was originally an oral one; people told of things that have happened, not that are happening now, in this moment, because now, in this moment, somebody is speaking, and there is no time-gap between the telling of the story and the listening to it. It's immediate, and so the listener cannot be fooled into thinking the story really is unfolding right now. A lengthy story would sound unnatural spoken aloud; at the very most, anecdotes can work in spoken storytelling. It's natural to tell a story in the past because invariably it has happened in the past, and we know that. Present tense storytelling is an experiment that has gone mainstream.

[maestrowork]

It's interesting to note that synopses are usually written in present tense.

[aruna]

It's interesting to note that synopses are usually written in present tense.

And blurbs, too. For some reason, my publisher wrote the blurb for my third book in past tense, and that sounded completely weird. I have no idea why they did that.

[rosewood]

Oh gees, so many people seem to hate present tense, but I've actually put books back because they were in past tense. Books in past tense, usually for me, come off sounding antiqued and musty. This discussion, however, did get me thinking about my own novel. It's in present tense, 3rd person. So this afternoon I actually rewrote the first few paragraphs in past tense just to see if I could tolerate it and you know what? I liked it.

I do think that it makes logically sense to put a story in past tense because it is not happening now and for this reason I think my novel would make sense to put it in past tense because it is embedded in an actually historical event that took place three years ago.

On the other hand, however, I think the fact that I like to do scenes where there is a lot of "showing" of very specific details that in putting it in present tense would work better because putting it in past tense the readers may be like, why is she telling me these details? Just get on with it and tell me the big stuff that happened.

[HapiSofi]

Cripes. Don't mix past and present tense unless your writing technique is so muscular that Charles Atlas sends you mash notes.

[rosewood]

Cripes. Don't mix past and present tense unless your writing technique is so muscular that Charles Atlas sends you mash notes.

I wasn't sure, but were you responding to my post? In re-reading my post, I could see where you might think I was going to permanently change the first few paragraphs of my novel to past tense, and keep the rest present, but I was just experimenting with past tense. The book is going to be either past or present, I just have not made up my little brain yet which it will be, but I am leaning toward present for the reason listed.