YOU...asked for it, you got it, Toyotaaa

[robeiae]

http://www.economist.com/businessfinance/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15465835&source=features_box1


While reporting its results on February 4th, Toyota put the cost of the recalls at $2 billion in the first quarter alone. Toyota’s sales in America last month plunged by 16% compared with a year earlier, while those of General Motors rose by 15% and Ford’s by 24%, allowing it to reclaim the number-two slot in the market it lost to Toyota in 2007.


Cars affected (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9740714):
The following eight models in the U.S. are affected by a recall involving faulty gas pedals: the 2009-10 Corolla compact car, the 2009-10 Matrix hatchback, the 2005-10 Avalon full-size sedan, the 2007-10 Camry midsize sedan, the 2010 Highlander crossover, the 2007-10 Tundra pickup, the 2008-10 Sequoia SUV and the 2009-10 RAV4 crossover.

There are some exceptions. Not all models of the Camry, RAV4, Corolla and Highlander are affected by the recall. All of these models produced in Japan, and some produced in the U.S., have accelerators made by another parts supplier whose components are not known to be problematic. Some of these vehicles can be identified by checking the vehicle identification number, or VIN.

All Matrix, Avalon, Tundra and Sequoia models listed above are included in the recall.
But wait, there's more (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Blotter/toyota-admits-problems-2010-hybrid-prius/story?id=9744744):

Toyota discovered a a design flaw (http://www.absolutewrite.com/GMA/video/toyota-recall-problems-9735325) in the 2010 Hybrid Prius months ago, the company said this morning...

Hours later in Washington, federal safety investigators announced they were opening a formal investigation of the Toyota Prius "to look into allegations of braking capability while traveling over an uneven road surface, pothole or bump.


Is the US applying too much pressure (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5im7AzPBsRb2Q_qT0FXa8DxrjjLwA)?


Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood sat down with reporters Wednesday to lay out a timeline of how US officials had "pushed Toyota to take corrective actions" on its pedal problems since 2007.

The meeting came a day after he issued a statement accusing the Japanese automaker of dragging its feet on recalling vehicles in danger of sudden, unintended acceleration due to pedals which could get trapped under floor mats or become "sticky."

He also caused a brief panic when he told a congressional panel that owners of 5.3 million Toyota vehicles affected by the recalls should "stop driving" them.


I guess it's good that the Government is runnng GM. Now, they can really bring the heat on the competition...

[Don]

I guess it's good that the Government is runnng GM. Now, they can really bring the heat on the competition...

Oh, rob, there you go with another one of your conspiracy theories...

[Fran]

The BBC 6 o'clock news said Toyota wasn't planning a recall in the UK.

The BBC 6 o'clock news the following night said Toyota had started a recall in the UK.

Does anyone else think Toyota got a couple of angry complaints in between?

[clintl]

Is the US applying too much pressure (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5im7AzPBsRb2Q_qT0FXa8DxrjjLwA)?



I guess it's good that the Government is runnng GM. Now, they can really bring the heat on the competition...

People have died because of the Toyota accelerator problem.

So, the answer is pretty damn clearly, "No."

This is the kind of stuff we should want our government to do. And I don't think the government ownership stakes in Chrysler and GM have anything to do with the response.

[Enzo]

Even the Prius ... the car everyone was wild about for the past few months because of its environmental 'new car' image.

Just saw the Letterman episode where the cameraman suddenly goes all wild and we see the Toyota logo and name on his gear.

[Plot Device]

And now, a word from Hollywood .....


Class Action (1991) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_Action_(film))

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/Class_Action_film.jpg




Class Action is a 1991 film directed by Michael Apted. Gene Hackman and Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio star ....

....

The story is about a lawsuit concerning injuries caused by a defective automobile. The suit takes on a personal dimension because the injured plaintiff's attorney, Jedediah Tucker Ward (Gene Hackman) is the father of the automobile manufacturer's attorney Maggie Ward (Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio), his estranged daughter. The central premise of the film is roughly analogous to the controversy surrounding the Ford Pinto.

....

Jed is hired to help field a lawsuit against a major auto manufacturer whose station wagons have a dangerous propensity to explode on impact while making a left turn, but while his research indicates he has an all but airtight case against them, the case becomes more complicated for him when he discovers that Maggie is representing the firm he's suing[2].

The auto manufacturer in the film also utilizes a "bean-counting" approach to risk management, whereby the projections of actuaries for probable deaths and injured car-owners is weighed against the cost of re-tooling and re-manufacturing the car without the defect (exploding gas tanks) with the resulting decision to keep the car as-is to positively benefit short term profitability.

[Ken]

... maybe these recalls will give GM and the others a much needed boost.

[mscelina]

...yes, while causing inconvenience and grief to millions of Toyota customers. Always a good tradeoff, right?

[Kisatchie]

...yes, while causing inconvenience and grief to millions of Toyota customers. Always a good tradeoff, right?

Toyota certainly didn't worry about GM or their customers whenever they had a recall, did they?

[astonwest]

Toyota certainly didn't worry about GM or their customers whenever they had a recall, did they?
Ah, but the federal government didn't go out and tell America they should stop driving Fords when their SUVs were rolling over either, if I recall.

[Ken]

...yes, while causing inconvenience and grief to millions of Toyota customers. Always a good tradeoff, right?

... just looking on the bright side. These days one's got to.

[Cassiopeia]

I keep wondering if I should be worried. I drive a 2005 Rav4. The model before they made it bigger and added the stronger engine. I'm paying it off this week. I love my car. :( I hope its not a part of all this mess. I've not had any issues but then I've only got 32k on it.

[poetinahat]

...yes, while causing inconvenience and grief to millions of Toyota customers. Always a good tradeoff, right?
If my car's a potential deathtrap, I think I'd rather the inconvenience of a recall than end up as an unwitting fireball. At least if there's a recall, the choice is mine! [eta: the mechanical fault is a fait accompli, so recall is always better than no recall, no?]

Hey, did you hear the one about the funeral director whose van was recalled after its first job? First time in history that the company re-hearsed after opening night....

:e2tomato:

[MattW]

Toyota, for all of their talk about reliability and customer service, decided it was easier to ignore early reports than to preserve their reputation. That's bad business.

Waiting until people die is unacceptable.

The fact that other issues are cropping up says that it is not an isolated incident at a supplier, but instead a systemic problem with company management.

[Silver King]

Toyota, Moving Forward (whether your foot is on the gas pedal or not).

[billythrilly7th]

If my car accelerated by itself, I'd step on the brake.

If the brake fails, then I'd have a problem with Toyota.

"Toyota...just be more careful!"

[poetinahat]

Billy - stop making sense.

You're gonna kill this forum...

(eta: if the brake fails, though, Toyota is pretty safe from you...)

[Williebee]

hmm, try that some time. Put a foot on the brake and step on the gas. Then wait while the two fight it out. Oh, make sure the car has fresh oil in it.

[billythrilly7th]

hmm, try that some time. Put a foot on the brake and step on the gas. Then wait while the two fight it out. Oh, make sure the car has fresh oil in it.

The brake wins. It ain't pretty, but the brake usually wins.

I find it amusing that people's cars accelerate and they just go..."ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......my car is accelerating!!!"

Hit the brake. Throw it in neutral and take the key out.

It's not a terminator. You can stop it.

With that said..

"Toyota....keep loving us, we're green!!"

[tiny]

If your throttle sticks, the last thing you want is to burn out the brakes because you're eventually going to need them to stop. If your vehicle is a manual, push in the clutch and pop it out of gear, if not, shift the car into neutral (you will not be able to shift into reverse, there's a built in system that keeps you from doing that). Your engine will race like hell but who cares, you can stop now. With your car in neutral, now use the brakes.

Cars are too complicated now with keyless crap and automatic brake systems. Give me a straight 6 with nothing power and I can assure this kind of crap won't happen.

[poetinahat]

Get a Vespa 125cc. Top speed only 105kph - if things go really wrong, just bail. Plus, if you're Cary Grant, you get Audrey Hepburn clinging to your waist.

[Death Wizard]

Get a Vespa 125cc. Top speed only 105kph - if things go really wrong, just bail. Plus, if you're Cary Grant, you get Audrey Hepburn clinging to your waist.

Ha!!!

[Enzo]

I saw somewhere that suspicions about the brakes are now expanding from the Prius to all Lexus hybrids. Bad news. This thing keeps growing.

[astonwest]

With computerized brakes and accelerators, I have to wonder if they have code that shuts the car down if you hold the brakes down long enough with the accelerator going...

[Ken]

hmm, try that some time. Put a foot on the brake and step on the gas. Then wait while the two fight it out. Oh, make sure the car has fresh oil in it.

... my first car had so little power that I had to step on the gas and brake at the same time so I'd have enough acceleration to get on highways and whatnot. It went from zero to 60 in about 5 hours. Still a great car, though. Miss 'er.

[robeiae]

I knew a guy with a car like that in college. He'd floor it, and the car would take about four minutes to get to 25 miles an hour.

'Course, he usually had a couple of kegs in the back...

[Plot Device]

Who the hell ever decided it was a GOOD idea to install computers in cars to make mechanical decisions for us????

Decisions we cannot override?????

[robeiae]

A computer?

[Shadow_Ferret]

Think it's time for some seppuku among Toyota upper management.

[astonwest]

Who the hell ever decided it was a GOOD idea to install computers in cars to make mechanical decisions for us????

Decisions we cannot override?????
I'm certain there would be an override method...it might just not be obvious. Like I mentioned, it may have cut off the accelerator signal by holding down the brake simultaneously...but likely no one thought of that at the time.

I'm not sure how the car industry runs things, though...in aircraft, they go through and account for tons of scenarios like this and have to account for them all.

[Chasing the Horizon]

Who the hell ever decided it was a GOOD idea to install computers in cars to make mechanical decisions for us????

Decisions we cannot override?????
Someone concerned about overpopulation? :D

Yeah, this is why I drive a car that pre-dates computers. I *heart* my iMac, but that doesn't mean I trust it (or any other computer) with my life.

One good thing about driving a 33yo car: It's very unlikely to be recalled at this point, lol.

[astonwest]

With computerized brakes and accelerators, I have to wonder if they have code that shuts the car down if you hold the brakes down long enough with the accelerator going...
Was just reading the March 2010 issue of Car and Driver where they discuss the runaway accelerator issue, and Toyota does not have such code to disable the accelerator (other manufacturers do), but is planning to implement it as soon as possible.

[Chasing the Horizon]

Was just reading the March 2010 issue of Car and Driver where they discuss the runaway accelerator issue, and Toyota does not have such code to disable the accelerator (other manufacturers do), but is planning to implement it as soon as possible.
If they're going to do the whole computerized car thing (which I still think is a terrible idea), wouldn't it make sense to have a code which immediately disables the accelerator when the brakes are engaged? That seems like a pretty simple piece of code.

[astonwest]

That seems like a pretty simple piece of code.
I would say so...

[Dommo]

The brake only wins when you're at a complete stop or if you're going slow. If you're hauling ass at like 60 mph, your brakes will burn up LONG before your car would ever stop. The only real option(and this is something I don't get with people), is to simply drop the car into neutral. That'll stop the car.

One other thing. Mechanical systems aren't any safer then electrical, and in a lot of situations can be worse. A stuck throttle cable isn't exactly something doesn't happen, or how about a pop bottle rolling beneath the brakes? It's a lot easier to drop into neutral then try to get some obstruction out from under your brake when you're approaching an intersection.

Statistically speaking "fly by wire" style controls are safer and more reliable. There's a reason why they've been effectively a standard on anything that flies for over 30 years.

[blacbird]

The brake only wins when you're at a complete stop or if you're going slow. If you're hauling ass at like 60 mph, your brakes will burn up LONG before your car would ever stop. The only real option(and this is something I don't get with people), is to simply drop the car into neutral. That'll stop the car.

Well, eventually. You kinda have to both drop the car into neutral and use the brakes.

But I lived in New Orleans for a few years (Geaux Whodats!), and what I saw there was that, under circumstances of a stuck accelerator pedal, the first device a driver would actuate would be the horn.

caw

[Dommo]

I had a situation where due to a mechanical problem in my old car(throttle got stuck open), it was taking off on its own(pretty scary actually). Thankfully it did this while I was putzing along slowly on a side street, but hearing my engine redline without me touching the gas pedal almost caused me to brownline my pants.

The problem, was that I was going fast enough that when I initially hit my brakes, I could tell that they weren't going to be able to stop the car from accelerating, so I did the obvious plan B which was to drop the car into neutral, and stop. Definitely was a pretty spooky thing to experience.

[billythrilly7th]

I would by lying if I said I wasn't snickering/laughing just a little bit...just a little bit...at my Prius driving over greening liberal friends when I found out their cars were being recalled.

:ROFL:

I know...I know...I'm a bad person. But it brings a smile to my face. What can I say?

Thank you.

[blacbird]

I know...I know...I'm a bad person.

The truth always eventually emerges.

caw