Picking Apart Novels

[rowriter]

I read a comment somewhere recently saying that you can't just read novels to learn about writing them, you have to pick them apart and study them; and I have read advice to do the same in various places. The idea seems obvious, I guess (though I do feel I learn quite a lot reading a novel the first time, I don't just 'read for fun' anymore)...I don't want to sound like I've never done this, I've 'analyzed' plenty of novels for college classes but, this seems vastly different...

Does anyone have their own specific methods of "picking apart" a novel?

My initial ideas are:
read the thing twice, and while doing that do the stuff below:
-write a basic outline of the novel in scenes/chapters to see how the plot worked/didn't work or why scenes were placed 'here' instead of 'there'
-study how characters are described/portrayed
-study transitions, viewpoint, etc. you know, the basics...
-study relationships between characters

Now I'm out of ideas. Forgive me if this has been asked before, is trite, etc. etc. :) But I'm going to pick apart a novel starting this weekend and would like additional ideas.

Thanks for any replies!

p.s. any books you can think of that have this kind of information would be appreciated as well (oops..passive...)

[alaskamatt17]

What kind of books do you write? That would be a help.

The last novel I read was Ender's Shadow by Orson Scott Card. One of my favorite sci-fi novels ever, right after Ender's Game. I noticed that Card used a lot of fragments, and he kept the reader clued in to the POV character's thoughts on everything. It was like living in the mind of the character, even though it was in third person.

Also, he did a lot of conversations without dialogue tags.

I wasn't really analyzing it, though, just reading for fun. I used to analyze books, but I don't anymore. My plan now is to read just for enjoyment. Hopefully I'll pick up techniques to use in my writing subconsciously.

[SRHowen]

I like to pick apart bad novels with a highlighter--LOL Mark the stuff that to me seems wrong or not to work. I do the same with very good books, the line that makes me laugh out loud--how did they set it up and so on. I have in the past in writing classes and workshops highlighted all the adjactives in a chapter or all the uses of was, just to show that was is not always a bad word and so on.

Shawn

[Mistook]

Pretend that you've never seen the painting on the front cover, or read the synop on the back. Pretend that nobody in the world ever heard of this story, or it's author, and that you found it in a slushpile.

Then pay attention to Chapter One. Nobody can deliver a fully formed character, world, and story in the first paragraph, so look at how the author presents things in those early scenes, when your patience is all important. How do they pull you in and get you to care?

After that, just read it with an eye for "the rules" and observe how they handle them. Backstory, dialogue, info, action, description, pacing... just note how they handle everything, and note whether or not you like the results.

[azbikergirl]

I like to see how good writers mix up their sentences by employing different patterns (not always starting with a pronoun or character's name). I also count words per sentence and get a feel for sentence length and rhythm.

[Kallahan]

I find now that I write I subconsiously pick apart novels, I notice ever foreshadowing. I take notice of the beuty of certain sentences. In other words I look for the art in writing. I still read mainly for pleasure, as I did before, but what I see is a bit different.

[rowriter]

alaskamatt17 said: What kind of books do you write?....The last novel I read was Ender's Shadow by Orson Scott Card. One of my favorite sci-fi novels ever, right after Ender's Game
Thanks for mentioning those, I'm adding them to my long shopping list! I'm pretty much a mainstream/women's lit writer (working on my first novel, over halfway there!). But I'm starting to read lots more in the romance and suspense genres, which I might pursue as well. I have read a lot "literary" stuff in the past...but I'm more interested in other kinds of fiction right now.

I'm going to reread a novel I finished reading recently by Kristin Hannah, The Things We Do For Love. I'm sure I'll notice a lot more the second reading, now that I already know what happens. (Kinda like watching Pulp Fiction again, lol, but a lot simpler)

SRHowen said: I like to pick apart bad novels with a highlighter--LOL Mark the stuff that to me seems wrong or not to work. I do the same with very good books, the line that makes me laugh out loud

This is good! I have different colored highlighters, I can use one for really good stuff and one for really bad stuff. Thanks for the idea!

I also notice a lot of writers using "had" and -ly words, but it seems to work for them (I just read the first chapter of Janet Evanovich's One for the Money, talk about lots of "had"s!)

(Wow there are 3 new msgs while I'm trying to proofread this msg...I'm slow!)

[La Reine]

I do pick apart novels but not in any meticulous way. Everything with writing for me is always instinctive, so when I read I instinctively notice what seems to work and what doesn't. Occasionally I stop and reread sections or sentences I felt were especially well-done.

[rowriter]

Then pay attention to Chapter One. Nobody can deliver a fully formed character, world, and story in the first paragraph, so look at how the author presents things in those early scenes, when your patience is all important. How do they pull you in and get you to care?


Great advice, thank you! (This reminds me, I'm going to read the book The First Five Pages--sorry forgot the author--but only after I'm finished with my novel's first draft, I don't want to get all concerned before I'm even done, lol)

[rowriter]

azbikergirl, Kallahan, La Reine:
More good advice! Thank you all for your input.
I'm getting a list together so I don't get trapped reading AW forums instead of what I'm 'supposed' to be doing. ;-)

When reading some topics here at AW, I want to print out the entire thread and save it for later. But unfortunately there's no ink in my printer at the moment. :mad:

[Jamesaritchie]

I suppose we each have our own method, and I do it pretty much the way I learned to in college, though I make regular adjustments in the exact procedure. The way I do it right now is: First, I read the novel for pleasure. If I really enjoy it, I then get a disposable copy of the novel and read it a second time, slowly, with several highlighters at hand. I use one color for bits of dialogue that stand out, another for description, another for action, another for narrative, and yet another for characterization. These are for places where something seems to work extremely well, or is just wonderfully written.

I also have one additional highlighter, a red one, that covers each and every place I find, be it dialogue, action, whatever, that strikes me as not being good, as not working well at all.

When this is done I go through and try to make myself understand why something worked as well as it did, why something sounded so good, why something didn't work, what the writer was trying to say, why he made the choices he did, etc.

I also get my own writing skills into the act by trying to write original bits of dialogue or action or description that read as well as what's in the book.

I also study the pace and flow of the book, as well as the mood and tone.

Twice a year, I take two weeks to do nothing but this, usually with one novel and one or four short stories.

[rowriter]

Jamesaritchie, You got it down! Thanks much, I'm glad I have my highlighters ready! I now feel very well armed to start my second reading tomorrow.

[sunandshadow]

If I want to analyze a book, plot is usually what I'm interested in analyzing. I make a timeline with page numbers, chapters, and major plot points. If I really want to get in depth I'll find every scene which set up and executed a particular plot point, or got from one to the next.

[Mistook]

As far as plot goes... pay attention to how quickly secrets are revealed, and how they build on each other.

In writing, there's an urge to save up all the reaveals for some future chapter that you never get to. In a real novel, the spoiler begins with a trickle in the first chapter, and quickly becomes a steady flow of revelations leading up to the climax.

Observe how much the author teases, as compared to how often they strip.

[azbikergirl]

Mistook, that's a good one. I also read the first couple of chapters over and over to note where and how the author introduced important facts about the characters. Not so much secrets as just things we need to know in order to understand a character's motivations.

[Mistook]

Mistook, that's a good one. I also read the first couple of chapters over and over to note where and how the author introduced important facts about the characters. Not so much secrets as just things we need to know in order to understand a character's motivations.


There's always a kind of unwritten assumption that you do care, even from word one. So many stories go through the first few paragraphs without even naming the character.

It takes a few pages to really get down the basics of name, description, setting, etc, and it takes the whole chapter to really build in the details of exactly who and what we're dealing with, but there's always that feeling that it's important, and it will all make sense in just a minute.

[reph]

It takes a few pages to really get down the basics of name, description, setting, etc, and it takes the whole chapter to really build in the details of exactly who and what we're dealing with, but there's always that feeling that it's important, and it will all make sense in just a minute.
That's my feeling about real life.

[alaskamatt17]

I really like the method James suggested with the highlighters. I've never tried it before, but it sounds worthwhile. I might have to go back to analyzing now.

[alaskamatt17]

Another thing, rowriter--I suggested Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow because I think they're novels that writers of any genre can learn from, Ender's Game especially. I've never identified with any main character as strongly as I identified with Ender Wiggin. The way Card illuminates his characters' thought processes is breathtaking. I cried in parts of both these books. The only other books I can remember that have made me cry are A Day No Pigs Would Die and Flowers for Algernon. I'd recommend Ender's Game more highly than either of those, though--it has better characterization than the first, and tighter plotting than the second.

[Mistook]

Another thing, rowriter--I suggested Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow because I think they're novels that writers of any genre can learn from, Ender's Game especially. I've never identified with any main character as strongly as I identified with Ender Wiggin. The way Card illuminates his characters' thought processes is breathtaking. I cried in parts of both these books. The only other books I can remember that have made me cry are A Day No Pigs Would Die and Flowers for Algernon. I'd recommend Ender's Game more highly than either of those, though--it has better characterization than the first, and tighter plotting than the second.


A freind of mine just handed me a copy of "Enders Game" a few days ago, giving it all the praise that you have, so I guess I'll have more to say when I finish it.

[SRHowen]

James,

Everytime I read a post by you I swear we went to the same "school" of writing. LOL

Shawn

[rowriter]

:Hail: Thanks for all the great advice, you guys! :Clap:

I'm constantly amazed by how much this board helps, motivates and teaches me. I'm truly thankful.

I started last night with the first few pages of the novel I'm analyzing, reading slowly, getting into it, thinking "what is this doing here..." I ended up numbering the first couple dozen paragraphs, seeing how the author introduces information about the environment, characters, and history and trying to figure out why she chose the words she did to convey certain feelings.

I haven't yet figured out which highlighter colors are for which element, so that comes tomorrow.

We're going on a mini-road trip today, and I don't read so well in the car, lol...hope everyone has a great day.

[Katiba]

This is not really a specific technique but a few years ago, when I started writing seriously, I began keeping a journal of all the books I read. I started out just giving grades to each book, but slowly I began to write reviews for them as well. Now I 'review' each book - a couple of paragraphs summarizing the plot, then I analyze what worked in the book and why, and also what didn't work and why. I have found this incredibly helpful because it makes me stop and think about what makes a particular book a success or failure for me, and also allows me to get a general sense for what works and doesn't work (again for me) in a whole range of books.

Plus I have a record of everything I've read, which is also kind of nice!

[scarletpeaches]

The first time I read a book, it's purely for enjoyment. But at the same time I take note of grammar, spelling, editing...I'm picky like that. It's not conscious, it's habit. If it's particularly good or particularly bad (not mediocre) I will read it again at a later date, asking myself, WHY is this character so well drawn? How does the author foreshadow? How are red herrings planted? How do all the threads come together? Why did the ending excite/ uplift/ disappoint/ thrill me? - With all of these questions in the 'opposite' for bad books of course. I firmly believe you can learn from bad books too.

[maestrowork]

I do think it's easier to learn "how not to write" by reading bad novels. It's harder to learn to write well with great stuff. You may understand: "Wow, now that's great writing" but you might not be able to analyze and pick out why exactly. Some people actually have to take a lit class to dissect the works in order to understand why they are such great writing...

But! If you read a lot of great works, eventually you would learn by absorption. You might pick out good ways of writing dialogue, developing characters, effective use of metaphors, etc. simply by immersing yourself in the words, day in and day out...

[Lenora Rose]

I'm impressed at how much analysis you all seem to do consciously. I read, and sometimes I reread a scene later to try to see why it impressed me. No more than that, though. If I pick up a book to analyse, I'm likely to do so by reading it cover to cover and looking only semi-consciously for links while my upper brain is busy with story.

But I can't bring myself to highlight a book (Although I know UJ suggested that a couple of times as an exercise for specific people with specific questions). Retyping a chapter is the closest I'd come to conscious analysis, becuase you start to see why each word is there - you feel the urge to drop a word or rephrase a sentence, but because the sentence isn't yours, and is in a published work, you have to not only leave it as it is, but figure out if/why it's better than your choice.

[Jamesaritchie]

I do think it's easier to learn "how not to write" by reading bad novels. .

There may be some truth in this, but if so, it'll have to do without me. I gave up reading bad novels many years ago. Life's too short.

[Jamesaritchie]

you feel the urge to drop a word or rephrase a sentence, but because the sentence isn't yours, and is in a published work, you have to not only leave it as it is, but figure out if/why it's better than your choice.

It isn't something I still do very often, but I think rewriting the work of published writers is a very good exercise. It's something we did often in college. Rewriting everyone from Shakespeare to Twain to Hemingway is intimidating at first, but it soon gets to be fun, and it's a real power trip when you realize you just improved something done by a classic writer.

It's also fun rewriting modern writers such as Mickey Spillane or Stephen King.

[Mistook]

Just as an asside, I understand Spillane was a disgruntled comic-book writer who turned to novels when they told him his stuff was too violent.

[Jamesaritchie]

Just as an asside, I understand Spillane was a disgruntled comic-book writer who turned to novels when they told him his stuff was too violent.

Really? I hadn't heard that. Interesting. He looks more like a gangster than a comic book writer.

I do vaguely remember he used to tell a story about a time when seven of the top ten books on the bestseller list were all his, and came a point when some snoooty woman complained that only three of the top ten books were worth buying. His response was, "Just be glad I didn't write three more books.

[brinkett]

I'm impressed at how much analysis you all seem to do consciously. I read, and sometimes I reread a scene later to try to see why it impressed me. No more than that, though.
If I do any analysis, it's after I've read the book or put it down. I ask myself why I enjoyed it or can't finish it. I don't analyze as I read. If the story has grabbed me, I'm immersed and don't want to ruin the experience.


I gave up reading bad novels many years ago. Life's too short.

And gets shorter every day. I never used to put a book down, but now I move on if it's not grabbing me.

[Danger Jane]

I pick apart books more by the characters. I've learned so much in the past few months by looking far into the characters of certain books. It's easy to write them off as just whatever, but sometimes the author slips in a hint of WHY they're like that, and I like to flesh this out, and it helps me know my own characters better.[/b][/color]

[dawinsor]

I learn the most by analyzing a story that's almost good. It should be good. There are a lot of good things in it, but somehow it's tedious or it's unbelievable or it's annoying. I can often put my finger on what's gone wrong among many good things, whereas if everything's bad or good, I have trouble pulling it apart.

[maestrowork]

There may be some truth in this, but if so, it'll have to do without me. I gave up reading bad novels many years ago. Life's too short.

Maybe you're at a point where you don't have to learn through bad writing anymore...

[Mistook]

Really? I hadn't heard that. Interesting. He looks more like a gangster than a comic book writer.

I do vaguely remember he used to tell a story about a time when seven of the top ten books on the bestseller list were all his, and came a point when some snoooty woman complained that only three of the top ten books were worth buying. His response was, "Just be glad I didn't write three more books.

That quote is Spillane to a tee! LOL.

Here's the text:

"Before the war, at the Funnies, Inc., shop where Sub-Mariner and the Human Torch were being produced for Martin Goodman's Marvel Comics, toiled a would-be pulp writer named Franklin Michael Spillane. In between writing Sub-Mariner stories for Bill Everet and his ghosts to draw, Spillane developed a comic strip idea of his own, about a violent private eye named Mike Danger. It was too brutal for prewar, and he was able to sell only a watered-down version, Mike Lancer. But when Spillane came back from the war and needed a thousand bucks to build his new wife a house, he set up a studio with some other veterans of Funnies, Inc., to peddle Mike Danger. Crime comics were beginning to catch on, but the studio had no capitol and couldn't land a distribution deal. So Spillane changed his hero's name to Mike Hammer and wrote the story as a novel. It took him nine days to pound out his comic book plot in frenzied, sweaty, crude, hostile prose."

-Gerard Jones: Men of Tomorrow


I'd been looking for the missing links between the pulps, the comic books, and modern genre fiction, and Spillane is that link. There may be others, but Mike Hammer taps into that gritty action that had made all three forms so well loved.