Do agents want to see the prologue?

[Shadowlit]

I'm getting near the end of my story, and I've been doing research on what agents what to see in a manuscript: formatting, the hook, etc.

I've found that many agents who allow manuscripts to be submitted through e-mail ask for the first chapter, first five-thousand words, or what have you. But I've been a bit concerned, since my story opens with a prologue that introduces one of the main conflicts, but it doesn't follow my main character as of yet. It's completely isolated, but it also contains many elements that agents seem to like.

When agents ask for the first chapter, is it wise to send a prologue, or should I send "chapter one" and take my chances there?

Thanks!

[Maxinquaye]

A prologue TENDS to be a bit of tell before the action starts. I don't know if that's the case with yours, but this...

since my story opens with a prologue that introduces one of the main conflicts, but it doesn't follow my main character as of yet. It's completely isolated, but it also contains many elements that agents seem to like.

... makes me wonder if it's not the case. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm of the mind that Stephen King can get away with a prologue, but that new novelists should avoid them. Can you rewor it into your story?

[Shadowlit]

The prologue kicks off a side-story that continues in interludes throughout the novel. What happens in it affects the main storyline significantly but, like I said, it's pretty much a flashback to another character and completely isolated.

The main storyline is mostly drama, but the prologue, as well as the rest of the sidestory, are pretty much all action and suspense. The only thing I can compare it to (and I'm saying this in the lightest sense xD) is The Name of the Wind, in that there's a separate story going on that only pops up every now and then, but it's still important.

I probably will have to resort to merging it with the first chapter or something to that effect, because some parts of "chapter one" will lose their meaning without the prologue, but the prologue itself is disconnected.

I confused myself right there. I hope that made a little sense, lol. Just not so sure how I should send it off to agents in that regard.

[IdiotsRUs]

A prologue TENDS to be a bit of tell before the action starts.

Well no, most of the ones I see ( the good ones anyway lol) are a piece of action that precedes / is separated from the main action by way of time and / or POV. These are personal preference ( please let's not get onto that argument again!) some like, some hate. I LOVE them

The advice I've seen is if they ask for the first five pages / 5k words / whatever, send them exactly that, the FIRST, and that includes the prologue ( unless of course it says otherwise in the sub guidelines. Or if the agent has blogged somewhere about how they loathe prologues)

I'm sure someone will be along to correct me :D

[Maxinquaye]

Well no, most of the ones I see ( the good ones anyway lol) are a piece of action that precedes / is separated from the main action by way of time and / or POV. These are personal preference ( please let's not get onto that argument again!) some like, some hate. I LOVE them

The advice I've seen is if they ask for the first five pages / 5k words / whatever, send them exactly that, the FIRST, and that includes the prologue ( unless of course it says otherwise in the sub guidelines. Or if the agent has blogged somewhere about how they loathe prologues)

I'm sure someone will be along to correct me :D

Well, I've written prologues too :D

But this argument always comes up. When one approaches an agent, one seems to play this strategic game that gets writers on edge, gives their eyes a haunted look, and makes their hands tremble...

And since prologues get people up in arms its best to avoid them, until you're Stephen King, and can do whatever you want. :)

[IdiotsRUs]

Ah yes, but if you've decided your work needs a prolgoue..the question is do you send with the sub?

If it's part of the first whatever they've asked for....

[Danthia]

A lot of advice says don't send prologues because a high percentage of them are done badly and can often be cut without hurting the story at all. Agents want to see the start of the story. If your start starts with the prologue, send the prologue. Just make sure that it does everything an opening is supposed to do. Engage the reader, give them a character or a problem they want to follow, and make them want to turn the page. If you don't think the prologue will hook an agent, then it doesn't belong in the book. Because it won't hook a reader either. The opening of a book has a very specific job no matter what you call it.

The key element is probably: is the info in the prologue a set up for the novel, or does it launch the novel? If it's background info or history that is "needed" to understand something in the first chapter, odds are high that it can go. Readers are smart and they usually pick up on stuff, or are willing to let some mystery build before they know everything in a story. That's kinda why they read the story, to find things out.

If the prologue is the event that sets the hero on the path of the novel, or something that directly triggers events, you might be fine with it.

You can always have someone who hasn't read the book read it from chapter one and see how it grabs them. If it does, you know you don't need the prologue and can slip in the important info later. If they're lost, you know you need it. (provided of course they read the prologue and that grabs them and makes sense)

[waylander]

I have a prologue in my (now-agented) novel.
I did not send the prologue as part of the writing sample or first 30 pages.

[Ken]

... don't send the prologue unless it is short, less than 3 pages, and absolutely essential to the understanding of the first chpt. And if it does happen to be essential, you'd probably be better off summarizing the essentials in a sentence or two and sticking that before the first chapter in an explanatory note, or even in the query letter, itself. That's what I'd do, not to say that would be the right approach.

[Jamesaritchie]

If the story needs a prologue, send it. If the story doesn't need it, it shouldn't be there in the first place.

Most prologues are done badly, but so are most first chapters. Good prologues add to the story, and the agent should see them. Bad ones will take away from the story, no matter when the agent sees them.

[ChaosTitan]

The general rule of thumb is to not send the prologue when they ask for the first chapter, or even the first three. Save it for the full manuscript.

[IdiotsRUs]

And if that doesn't confuse you nothing will lol

I think a lot depends on the agent you're sending to tbh. For instance Nathan Bransford says ( and it was this advice I was going by BTW) : I want to see the first 30 pages as you want me to send them to the editor. If that involves a prologue... let's see it.

Whereas others don't want to at all.

I think the best answer is to research who you're querying as thoroughly as possible. But you were doing that anyway, right?

[scarletpeaches]

I wouldn't dream of not sending the prologue. If I don't want to, it shouldn't be in the book.

[Anon76]

Maybe things are loosening up as time moves on, but it used to be that if you had a prologue, you had to include it in the submission before adding chapter one. Same went for, if asked for three chapters, you didn't randomly choose, say, Chaps one, three and ten.

Again, maybe things are changing, so what do I know?

[Tan]

Thanks for posting this. I have been wondering myself. =]

[Nateskate]

You're trying to entice them to go an a proverbial second date. You don't need to show your high school yearbook. But you should bring breath mints. Picture the VH1 show Tough Love. You want to make a good first impression.

They want to see if there's a story and that you can write it. The book as a whole may not make sense without the Prologue, but you're first few chapters should be fascinating enough without them, or you won't get a request for a full anyway.

Then include the prologue with the full m.s.

[Shadowlit]

lol, wow. I've gotta say, I've received some very helpful suggestions from all of you, but this is pretty much as back and forth as a discussion can get, eh? xD

I've seen some agents ask for the first few chapters, others ask for the first chapter and sometimes the first few thousand words. I'm thinking that if they ask for an amount that equals out to one chapter, then I should probably send "chapter one," but if they'd allow more than one chapter to be sent then that would be my cue to include the prologue.

It definitely is integral to the story, but I guess it is something I can omit from a submission if they only want a small part of the manuscript. Hmm.

[suki]

lol, wow. I've gotta say, I've received some very helpful suggestions from all of you, but this is pretty much as back and forth as a discussion can get, eh? xD

I've seen some agents ask for the first few chapters, others ask for the first chapter and sometimes the first few thousand words. I'm thinking that if they ask for an amount that equals out to one chapter, then I should probably send "chapter one," but if they'd allow more than one chapter to be sent then that would be my cue to include the prologue.

It definitely is integral to the story, but I guess it is something I can omit from a submission if they only want a small part of the manuscript. Hmm.

This is back and forth, but I will second Danitha's comments. And I'll add, when the agent asks for the first chapter, IME, they mean the first pages of the book - ie, not what you name "Chapter 1" but literally the first written pages of your book, that the reader would open and find. If you are doubting sending the prologue, I think it is a strong indication it isn't really the start of your book.

I think this is a gut check moment - if the prologue really is the start of the book, you should send it. If not, then it should be cut or moved within the book.

But when agents ask for the first chapter or first three chapters, IME, they actually want the beginning of the book - ie, the first pages, whatever you call them.

~suki

[AryaT92]

I agree with Suki, if you don't feel comfortable sending your prologue as the beginning of the book why would it hook a reader if it can't hook an agent? Maybe it should be revised or removed..?

[AlterEgox5]

Well, it's frustrating for those of us with prologues *raises hand* when an agent doesn't specify a number of pages but just says "the first chapter." I actually agonized over this last night, and eventually just sent the prologue. While it's an exciting opening, I'm not a fan of sending just that because it's only 4 pages, whereas other chapters are 10ish.

I actually contacted a mentor of mine (published author) a while back asking about how to handle prologues and she told me to just consider it as a "chapter." So if the agent says, "I want to see the first three chapters," it means I'm going to send her the prologue, chapter 1, and chapter 2.

I prefer page numbers though. It's just easier.

[Ken]

... haven't ever written a prologue, but have read plenty. They often provide readers with background info that is interesting as a backdrop, but not essential to the story and definitely not aimed at hooking readers. As a reader I enjoy this extra bit of info if I'm into the book and want to know more about what preceded the events and whatnot. In that way prologues are similar to afterwards. So they don't really need to be sent to agents with chpt requests, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be included in the works as a whole. At least that is my take on prologues based on the ones I've read.

[thothguard51]

For two years I shopped for an agent for a WIP, sending the required query, synopsis and first fifty pages, which included a short 6 page prologue. For two years I got no request for full reads.

Last year I attended a conference where an agent said point blank...start the story with the story. I don't want to read a prologue and then get into the story. If you submit to me, leave the prologue out unless you know it will curl my toes. Once I sell your work, then we can discuss with the publisher the prospect of adding a prologue.

This year I have had three request for full reads once I removed the prologue, 1 from a publisher who had their submissions closed right before my query arrived. Still no sales, but I had two ask for me to resubmit in 2010. Now, was it the prologue or lack of that has made the difference? Unsure, but once I make the sales, I will discuss with the publisher, as the prologue in my series is a device and introduces the world, the storyline and the storyteller for each book in the series. My using this device, I give my 3rd person omni sections a image for the reader. I think its needed, but I will also go with the editors advice until my name is well known, and by then, maybe I won't care about prologues any longer.

[katiemac]

If you're nervous about the prologue being the first glimpse into your manuscript for an agent, do you want it to be the first thing a reader would see when they pick up your book in the store?

If you're not 100 percent behind the prologue, don't send it to an agent. Consider cutting it from your book.

[cwfgal]

A prologue (assuming it's really a prologue and not a foreword) is simply a chapter in your book and the opening, presumably, of your story. So of course you should send it. If your story would be fine without it, you don't need it, but it sounds likes yours is integral to the overall story.

My first three published novels all opened with a prologue and their lengths ranged from 5 pages to 13. Two of them were prologues because there was a huge gap in time between a very key scene and the rest of the story. The third one was a prologue because it was told from a POV that wasn't used again in the rest of the book and again, it was a key scene to the rest of the story.

I don't understand the big to-do over prologues. Other than the fact that they are often poorly done, (but so are many chapter ones, as someone else said), there is no reason to be biased against a prologue.

If you're really that worried about it, label your prologue as chapter one and go from there.

Beth

[cwfgal]

... haven't ever written a prologue, but have read plenty. They often provide readers with background info that is interesting as a backdrop, but not essential to the story and definitely not aimed at hooking readers. As a reader I enjoy this extra bit of info if I'm into the book and want to know more about what preceded the events and whatnot. In that way prologues are similar to afterwards. So they don't really need to be sent to agents with chpt requests, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be included in the works as a whole. At least that is my take on prologues based on the ones I've read.

Don't confuse a foreword with a prologue. A true prologue is the opening event in the story, separated from the rest of the story by time, POV, etc. A well written prologue should draw the reader in as much as any chapter one should. A story opening with a prologue is often closed with an epilogue -- an ending or closing to the story that is separated from the main story by time, etc. There are those who say any story that has a prologue should also have an epilogue. Forewords and afterwords are typically authorial notes (although they can be written by someone other than the author) talking about the story and how it came to be or the research that went into it, or some other non-essential thing. They can be deleted from the book without affecting the story.

Beth

[cscarlet]

Don't confuse a foreword with a prologue. A true prologue is the opening event in the story, separated from the rest of the story by time, POV, etc. A well written prologue should draw the reader in as much as any chapter one should.

QFT

I have a prologue. I tried to get rid of it... I REALLY did. It didn't work. I don't like my story without it, and a huge chunk of my story is moot without it. And I would venture to say it's even more engaging than my first Chapter.

Granted, I do have a LOT of work to do on my MS, and there might be drastic changes to come. But I've stressed and mulled over this, and I just don't see the prologue going away.

Now, using that to answer your question: I do plan on sending my prologue when I send my "pages" (chapter 1, etc.). I agree with everyone who says: "If you are unsure, it doesn't belong in the first place."

I could be wrong, but I'm stubborn. So I suppose we'll see :)

[Nateskate]

lol, wow. I've gotta say, I've received some very helpful suggestions from all of you, but this is pretty much as back and forth as a discussion can get, eh? xD

I've seen some agents ask for the first few chapters, others ask for the first chapter and sometimes the first few thousand words. I'm thinking that if they ask for an amount that equals out to one chapter, then I should probably send "chapter one," but if they'd allow more than one chapter to be sent then that would be my cue to include the prologue.

It definitely is integral to the story, but I guess it is something I can omit from a submission if they only want a small part of the manuscript. Hmm.

The key thought here is "first impressions" on your storytelling skills. Generally prologues are informational in nature, interesting maybe. If you had a pie-eating contest, the fact that you can make twelve pies doesn't matter. Only one can win. Is the prologue written so well that that agent wants your book? Is chapter one more exciting to a reader?

I suggest starting with chapter one if it's well-written.

[illiterwrite]

They want the novel from page 1 until whenever. If page 1 is your prologue, so be it.

If your prologue is not essential, cut it.

[Ken]

Don't confuse a foreword with a prologue.

... didn't. Meant 'prologue,' just as I said.
And I was spot-on with my definition.
Just looked up the term:

A prologue (Greek (http://www.absolutewrite.com/wiki/Greek_language) πρόλογος prologos, from προ~, pro~ - fore~, and lógos, word), or prolog, is a preface to the story. It sets up the story, giving background details and other miscellaneous information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prologue

:wag:

[blacbird]

If the story needs a prologue, send it. If the story doesn't need it, it shouldn't be there in the first place.

Exactly correct, on both counts.

caw

[cwfgal]

QUOTE=Ken;4375943]... didn't. Meant 'prologue,' just as I said.
And I was spot-on with my definition.
Just looked up the term:

A prologue (Greek (http://www.absolutewrite.com/wiki/Greek_language) πρόλογος prologos, from προ~, pro~ - fore~, and lógos, word), or prolog, is a preface to the story. It sets up the story, giving background details and other miscellaneous information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prologue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prologue)

[/QUOTE]

American Heritage definition:pro·logue also pro·log (prō'lôg', -lŏg') (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html)
n.
1. An introduction or preface, especially a poem recited to introduce a play.
2. An introduction or introductory chapter, as to a novel.
3. An introductory act, event, or period.

[Middle English prolog, from Old French prologue, from Latin prologus, from Greek prologos : pro-, before; see pro-2 + logos, speech; see leg- in Indo-European roots.]

The above definitions share something in common. Both sources mention that a prologue sets up or introduces a story. You said a prologue is not essential to the story. I disagree. A prologue, if done properly, is always essential to the story. A foreword is not. Hence my confusion regarding your post -- that and this below.


As a reader I enjoy this extra bit of info if I'm into the book and want to know more about what preceded the events and whatnot. In that way prologues are similar to afterwards. So they don't really need to be sent to agents with chpt requests, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be included in the works as a whole. At least that is my take on prologues based on the ones I've read.


I'm a little confused as to why you wouldn't send an agent something that "sets up the story" per the definition you provided. To me that's like saying don't send chapter one.

Also, prologues in novels are not similar to afterwords. They are similar to epilogues. Afterwords are similar to forewords. The two pairs are very different animals and play very different roles with regard to their necessity to the overall story.

So no offense intended but it seemed to me from what you wrote that you were confusing prologues and epilogues with forewords (sometimes called prefaces, which I think is why some people confuse them with prologues) and afterwords.

Beth

[Shadowlit]

Oh, man, I remember when I was little and one of my teachers said that the prologue was unnecessary, and that it doesn't matter if I read it or not. My brother was told the same thing, too. I think someone's been corrupting the youth with this line of thinking, lol.

I'm fairly certain that I'll be sending the prologue along to the agent. I think if it were the kind of prologue that did the whole "In a world where..." thing, then I'd probably be able to remove it, but as it stands, it's very integral to the story.

I just kept stressing that maybe when the agent opened my letter, after asking for the first chapter, and s/he saw "PROLOGUE" instead of "CHAPTER ONE" then it might be grounds for him/her to throw the query out. Just judging from what I've seen here, it seems many people have different value claims toward the prologue, so the same might be said for agents. Doubt there's a standard for this kind of thing. Yikes. ><'

[Albannach]

They'll look at the first paragraph. If it grabs them, they'll keep reading. If it doesn't...

Really doesn't matter what you call it. I have a prologue. It is essential to the story, in fact it is PART of the story, really chapter one but it takes place several years earlier so it was easier to make it the prologue.

Far too many prologues are an excuse for an info-dump. Those are not good in my opinion. ;)

[Ken]

I'm a little confused as to why you wouldn't send an agent something that "sets up the story" per the definition you provided. To me that's like saying don't send chapter one.

Also, prologues in novels are not similar to afterwords. They are similar to epilogues. Afterwords are similar to forewords. The two pairs are very different animals and play very different roles with regard to their necessity to the overall story.

So no offense intended but it seemed to me from what you wrote that you were confusing prologues and epilogues with forewords (sometimes called prefaces, which I think is why some people confuse them with prologues) and afterwords.

Beth


... do things your way and I'll do things in mine and we'll leave it at that.

[RJK]

I agree with Scarlet. If your prologue doesn't inspire you, how do you expect it to inspire an agent or your readers. Just because it's a prologue, doesn't mean it's a dumping ground for backstory or world building. You need to make it as interesting and exciting as the rest of your story. If it is, you wouldn't be asking this question.

[Shadowlit]

If you were talking to me (can't tell anymore, lol) I was never unsure about the prologue. I love it, and I want to keep it. I just didn't want to send it to an agent only to realize they only want to see "chapter one." Queries can get tossed out for the slightest misstep sometimes, and I don't want sending my prologue to be one. =(

[IdiotsRUs]

If you were talking to me (can't tell anymore, lol) I was never unsure about the prologue. I love it, and I want to keep it. I just didn't want to send it to an agent only to realize they only want to see "chapter one." Queries can get tossed out for the slightest misstep sometimes, and I don't want sending my prologue to be one. =(

I knew this would end up a 'should you use a prologue or not' discussion... :D

*runs away quickly*

[Albannach]

Well, interestingly enough it was my agent who informed me that my first chapter was actually a prologue. Didn't keep him from wanting to represent it though. ;)

If it is an info-dump you get rid of it. If it is in fact an introductory act or chapter (the definition of the word) and it's good then you keep it.

Simples

I can show you examples of lots of novels with prologues and since they're sitting on my bookshelf I suspect an agent represented them and a publisher bought them. *ahem* Was that excessively sarcastic? But it's true.

To answer the original question:

The agent wants the first of the novel--whatever the heck you call it. If you don't call it anything and the whole thing is one big chapter or prologue or whatever, you still send them the first part. :)

[scarletpeaches]

... do things your way and I'll do things in mine and we'll leave it at that.Might be wiser to do things the agent's way.

[Shadowlit]

I knew this would end up a 'should you use a prologue or not' discussion... :D

*runs away quickly*

Oy! Don't you dare leave me here! >=O

But! In any case, thank you all for taking the time to help me out here. I'm fairly certain I'll be sending the prologue along with the rest of the sample pages, if they do require it.

This turned into quite the discussion! =D

[Ken]

Might be wiser to do things the agent's way.

... there is no 'agent's way' when it comes to including or not including prologues. There are opinions, but no general consensus. So writers have to decide for themselves, based on criteria that's been brought up here. And in any event that was not the point of my post, which was addressed to one person alone.

[scarletpeaches]

Well...this is a public discussion board.

And if you want to find out an agent's opinion on prologues...ask them.

[Ken]

And if you want to find out an agent's opinion on prologues...ask them.

... they have been asked. And their answers have differed. So again, no consensus, leaving it up to writers to decide how to procede. Thread here will be of help. Lots of vaying opinions, covering a full range of perspectives. // Sure this message board is public, which is why I posted what I did, to terminate a debate that was becoming a personal one as I saw it. Good discussion here worth continuing. Eager to here further views, from an audience seat.

[scarletpeaches]

The point of my saying 'ask an agent' was to make it clear many have guidelines or take enquiries. So no, there isn't a consenus but oftentimes individuals make their requirements known.

[Ken]

... didn't understand what you meant, then. Asking particular agents about what to include before sub'ing to them makes sense, and is a good idea alongside following their guidelines of course. And from my own experience, agents and editors do answer such enquires prior to subs and don't seem to mind, much.

[Albannach]

Really? Every agent I queried wanted the first pages without fail. Not that I queried every agent in the world but I didn't see a single exception.

Of course, one always checks their guidelines and if they say something different...