how much should I outline before I start writing my first draft?

[Trauntj]

to anyone who chooses outlining before starting to write their first draft, how much info would be a plausible area to start writing the first draft? I have the everything down as far as main characters, conflict, setting, etc and I'm kind of just filling in events as I think of them. despite this, the whole thing isn't completely concrete right now as it could be.

should I wait to get down all of the major components before beginning to write? (like writing bios for all of the characters even if I have set personalities and motives for them?) I'm going to flesh everything out a bit more, but wanted to know what other people did regarding their degree of outlining.

Thanks! :)

Edit: nevermind, I found a thread that helped. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38937&highlight=outlining

[Prozyan]

Short answer: As much as you need to.

Long answer: Really, as much as you need to.

There is no set formula of times and measurements for writing.

[Sage]

Short answer: As much as you need to.

Long answer: Really, as much as you need to.

There is no set formula of times and measurements for writing.
This.

Also, a lot of people don't outline at all. It just depends on what works best for you.

[The Lonely One]

I've heard of authors who use a first draft as an outline. That is, they write it down and then decide all the important plot thingies, what stays and what goes, then revise accordingly.

It's the method I've temporarily adopted for my first long writing project(s). Depending on how it goes I might switch over to a more formal outlining process, but we'll see. I think if you just google outline it'll give you some links to helpful methods.

[Matera the Mad]

Prozyan said it all.

I get my outline figured out after I get to the last chapter. Then it helps with editing and revision -- the real work.

[Moonfish]

... and some books seem to want more outlining than others. At least mine vary very much. Some stories seem to get irritated if I try to pin them down before I start writing, others demand it.

[Cliff Face]

I think it's healthy to leave something for the imagination to attach itself to while you're writing. If everything's planned out, then sure, that first day of writing will be great, and you'll be loving the idea and wanting to get as much done as humanly possible. But, on the second day, you'll be a little less attracted to the idea, and after say a week of 4k a day, you'll positively want to go back to the exciting, "Okay, what goes here?" sort of stage.

Personally I outline enough to get me going, but enjoy having bits I hadn't planned sneak their way in. This way the little details stick in your mind, and then the major points have already been planned - but there's still plenty for the imagination to latch onto.

But to each their own, is a good piece of advice. :)

[Phaeal]

Are you the kind of person who carries maps and guidebooks and GPS systems in your car? Outlines R you.

Are you the kind of person who lets the gravitational field of the earth guide you to your destination, or not? Outlines, not so much R you.

[ChristineR]

You will find successful, well-known authors who don't outline at all and successful, well-known authors who outline extensively.

My feeling is that as you can always ignore the outline or change at while writing, that more is probably better than less.

[motormind]

You should outline every word.
Of course, this way your outline will immediately turn into your finished story.

[Jenan Mac]

My name is Jenan, and I'm an Outline Addict.

I use the same method my freshman social studies teacher taught me for paper writing back a million years ago: use 3x5 cards for each major plot point. That way you can move them around easily if they fit better another way or need inserts added (like if you suddenly realize you haven't seen Christie for five chapters, and she's supposed to be a major character).

[Charlie Horse]

Outline, you say? Is that the line that runs around the outside of the text page?

[sunandshadow]

Different methods work for different people. I'd just like to describe one particular method because it often doesn't occur to people as a possibility: Take turns outlining and actually writing. More specifically, outline until you can start writing, then switch to writing; if you get stuck, outline a bit more until you can write more. The goal is not to create an outline, the goal is to create a story; outlining is a 2-edged sword because it can help you know what you want to write next or it can hurt your motivation; it can even be a cat-vacuuming excuse not to actually write.

[nitaworm]

I would do a high level outline. Sometimes I do that and then I work on blowing out each part as I write. However a highlevel outline should be just fine.

If you don't do outlines, then just write the beginning and end. Then outline it after it's written to see if you have left out anything that should be told.

[PCroc]

I like to do enough outlining to have some idea of where the story is going and avoid writing myself into a corner.
I use an outlining method called the Snowflake Method (http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/art/snowflake.php), but I usually only follow it through Step 4. After that it starts to look like overkill to me, and I like to leave some room for my stories to change as I write them.

[Trauntj]

Different methods work for different people. I'd just like to describe one particular method because it often doesn't occur to people as a possibility: Take turns outlining and actually writing. More specifically, outline until you can start writing, then switch to writing; if you get stuck, outline a bit more until you can write more. The goal is not to create an outline, the goal is to create a story; outlining is a 2-edged sword because it can help you know what you want to write next or it can hurt your motivation; it can even be a cat-vacuuming excuse not to actually write.

I like this idea, so I have a bit of both to fall back on. thanks for the replies everyone! I'm really excited and I might just start writing this weekend and see how it fares :)

[Ehab.Ahmed]

I may not be better qualified to give an advise, but I like to get a firm outline of the story before I begin. Like having a beginning and a setting and main characters pinned down. Also a basic feeling of how the story might take direction and then let the MCs take over.

[AlishaS]

I usually dont outline and write on the fly but when I do I write as much as I can, I break down each character writing down everything from there looks to the way they talk, their clothing style and background information (brithday where they were born) anything and everything that might become useful and I always find myself adding to it as I write so I don't forget.

If you have several chapter ideas I write out a break down of each chapter I plan to write. I know it might sound like alot but it makes things easier in the long run if you have the time and patience for outlining.

I agree with everyone else in saying write down as much as you possibly can

[Pepper]

to anyone who chooses outlining before starting to write their first draft, how much info would be a plausible area to start writing the first draft?

I know you found another thread and received lots of answers here (I haven't read them all, so forgive me if I repeat), but I'll chime in anyway.

Outline as much as you personally feel you need to. If you feel you're ready to plough into your story with a few lines worth of notes, go right ahead. If you need to have every detail down before you can start, go right ahead.

A word of warning though. I don't "outline" anymore, like I used to. (I might scribble something on a piece of paper so I remember, but I don't "outline"). I used to outline extensively, describing the world, all key events, all the characters, etc. Problem is, I'd get bored with the story. So much effort and detail would go into the outline that the story felt stale by the time I actually got to the blank page.

So my official answer? Outline as much as you feel you need to, but ensure you don't outline so much to make the story feel stale by the time you get to writing it.

[ejwriter]

i thought i could get through nano with a very skimpy outline, but i hit a wall b/c other scenes kept popping into my head that i didn't want to forget. it was very distracting! ;p

so i finally spent a couple hours outlining all the events/plot points chapter-by-chapter, and i feel much more focused now.
for me, the outline helps me move along faster.

however, i do not write up character bios. for me, the characters come to life and evolve as i write.

everyone is just different. :D

[JuliaRene]

I use the snowflake method (also up to around step four lol) and never realized it.

Side note: I outline using only key words as a reminder. I don't get burned out or feel like I've already written the story that way.

[socact]

I never outline. If you read Stephen King's "On Writing," you'll realize that this isn't the worst idea ever. He even seems to promote it.

I feel insecure about not outlining, so I thought I'd chime in.

[blacbird]

The moment your outlining interferes with your actual writing is the moment you need to stop outlining. For many writers, this happens before the first letter is typed in an outline.

caw

[blacbird]

I use the snowflake method

I use a variation I call the Cowpie Method: Throw it down and see what direction it spreads in.

caw

[fringle]

I don't outline but I do begin every writing day by making notes and jotting down ideas in my notebook.

[Stijn Hommes]

The single most important thing when using an outline is to know where you want to end up. Without that information, a story can go nowhere fast. Even if you choose not to outline, having some sort of idea where you want to end up is imperative to make a story work.

@Fringle: You do outline; you write your ideas down, just not in an organized order as most people do.

[bearilou]

I use a variation I call the Cowpie Method: Throw it down and see what direction it spreads in.

caw

I've used the Snowflake Method in the past, to good effect. This time, I'm using the Cowpie Method.

Also, so far, to good effect. :)

[bearilou]

Different methods work for different people. I'd just like to describe one particular method because it often doesn't occur to people as a possibility: Take turns outlining and actually writing. More specifically, outline until you can start writing, then switch to writing; if you get stuck, outline a bit more until you can write more. The goal is not to create an outline, the goal is to create a story; outlining is a 2-edged sword because it can help you know what you want to write next or it can hurt your motivation; it can even be a cat-vacuuming excuse not to actually write.

Cat-vacuuming will now be my most favorite excuse, EVAR!

[CocoCat]

I've learned the hard way that my writing works best when I let the characters drive the plot and don't try to fit a 2D name and its traits into a plot that I already made my mind up on. Even if I do think I know all about them before hand, trying to force that makes them lifeless. I find if I sit make a simple table or list of each character and start writing everything I can about them, their conflicts and roles in the story show up pretty fast and the plot becomes quite complex just out of that. I tend to then draft those key scenes first and to build around them to try to see if that structure fits, kind of like scaffolding. I find drafting like that is more helpful than outlines since outlines give little clue about where the pacing is off.

There is a framework I read by someone, I forget the author and the book title (yeah, I'm useless), but the formula was something like three beats equal an event and three events equal a scene. This is flexible of course but it can be a little helpful when you're at the planning stages for helping to pace those key scenes and the build up to them or when you're not sure what's wrong later. (He also wrote that each beat or scene should have an alternating current to the next -- building then resolving tension at increasing degrees but I don't think that works, personally, although the examples he gave were quite convincing). I can't imagine sitting and counting beats like that unless I'm struggling with something but maybe that suits some people.

[JuliaRene]

I use a variation I call the Cowpie Method: Throw it down and see what direction it spreads in.

caw

Haha, that's awesome. I'll try that one of these days. :)