First impressions....

[Enigma]

I wish I could find who mentioned the article Site link removed per request of other site's Webmaster

[scripter1]

but this opening doesn't do it for me.

Things seem pretty good until you get to that little whispering breeze.
I mean, it's a little whispering breeze. Sounds nice and pleasant.
The only way we know something is afoot is because you tell us.
The words gentle and then evil contradict each other.

And the choppers aren't really threatening either. Maybe they are on a peace mission. We don't know! They are just choppers.
NOW paint a wraith on the side, or some other symbol of evil and it's a visual clue that these are bad choppers.

You need to provide a few more descriptive details to really paint the scene.
If the mood is foreboding then make that breeze a chilling whine through dead trees. Or have the wind moan. The ground can be barren, or maybe there is an animal (a crow or wolf, something symbolic) that flees the scene.

Do you want a peacefull valley shattered by the roar of engines?
Or do you want a spooky meadow and the presence of the choppers compliments that?

I'm confused by the behavior of the choppers. Are they sitting there and then revealed somehow? Do they fly in and land? Are they moved out into the open somehow? What are these shadows and what causes them to take form?

The word choices make a big difference and then the details add depth and visual clues.

[Enigma]

It's a peaceful mountain pasture and no, the roar of engines wouldn't fit the mood I'm trying to project. They're waiting, for something (other than the credits to roll), and in the next few lines, we find out what. e.g. - it's to set up the first action scene.

I'm curious: have you never had anyone gently whisper a warning that something was wrong? Have you never been camping in the woods at night, where shadows can play mean tricks and a slight sound can make you reach for your gun?

This scene actually took place several times near Murphy, NC, back when Eric Rudolph was roaming these mountains. (The ATF used the same places too many times.) The birds flew in from Fort Benning, or somewhere, and sat down on the tops of mountains, almost always in isolated pastures, which, by the way, are only three or four acres, and not level, or square, to wait for the "go" signal. Fuel limits them to four hours in the air, the Hawk, three. So, they wait. They can tuck in tight places, in small openings, in and near tree lines and because of their camo, they're very difficult to see from any distance on the ground unless you walk right up on them. And flying contour, fifty feet off the deck in "silent mode," you can hardly hear them, much less see them, but that's beside the point. The bird (machine) is totally awsome!

If you've ever looked at the business end of a "Longbow," it'll scare the hell out of you. The 40mm barrels of the Gatling Gun, to say nothing of the "Sidewinders," is all the sinage needed to say they kill things.

They're up there waiting for the "go" signal, which they obviously get and explaining air combat tatics would take up too much space.

So, to answer your question, yes, I'm after a spooky meadow and have the presence of the birds compliment that mood. I'll go back and work on it some more because I now realize, thanks to that article, how important it is.

Thanks for your comments. I do appreciate them.

[scripter1]

I have spent a good deal of time camping out in dark meadows and woods.
I know quite a bit about shadows and the tricks they can play.
I'm also easily spooked.

My point was that gentle and evil don't go together. A gentle breeze is by definition non threatening. Describe it as an eerie breeze and now we think of some sound effects. The rattling of limbs. Maybe a hint of something almost like a voice. But the words eerie, strange, spooky, creepy, ooh ooh ooh what about ominous - of or serving as an evil omen, all create a very specific feeling.
Ominous. Yep, THAT'S the word you want.

While I am not a chopper expert I do know that these things don't have cloaking devices on them so they simply can't suddenly emerge from the shadows.
Something has to reveal them.

That is all fine and dandy for them to be sitting there waiting.
But the moon's got to come out and change the lighting effect so that now we see them.

Or you can describe these two hulking forms hidden in the shadows and we don't know if they are creatures or something else. Then the wind blows the trees, opening up the machines to the moonlight and now we see the big guns.

What needs to carry this scene is the focus on the choppers.

Actually you could cut all the breeze stuff out and just really zero in on those two menacing shapes.
They are the point and focus of the scene, not the scenery.

If you're going for a spooky meadow then spooky it up. That breeze now ominously creaks a rusty gate. A dead tree looms over a weed infested paddock.
A scrawny crow pulls flesh from a dead rat.

Okay, NOW I am officially spooked and ready to crawl into my husbands lap when the big B O O! moment comes.

[IWrite]

I think he's right on point. While we chew up loglines and sometimes synopsis, and even pages of script on the forum, would you please take a shot at this opening, in that context?
Per your request. As a development executive my first impression from the first sentence is that you are a writer - but you are not a screenwriter.

That is to say that you do not appear to be making stylistic choices so much as evidence that you do not understand the basics of screenplay description.

Your description of the pasture being protected from the cold by the forest surrounding it is very lyrical indeed - however there is no way to translate that poetic phrasing to a visual image. As a reader you have lost me in your first paragraph. The writing is not visual. How is one supposed to get across on film that the wind is whispering a warning. If an ominous sound is heard then say so - it the wind itself is suddenly signaling something wicked this way comes - then you have to describe that in specific visual images.

If you cannot see it on the screen or hear it through the speakers it has no place on the page. You cannot create tone through prose alone - it has to be able to be directly translated to the screen.

To be honest - if you had submitted to me - I wouldn't have turned to page two because you have not demonstrated a real understanding of what screenwriting is. That is a turn-off on many levels - because you are not only wasting my time - but it also appears you didn't take the time to learn the nuts and bolts of the craft. As a first impression it comes off as somewhat disrespectful to those who have committed themselves to this business (i.e. the people you will be submitting to).

Although your logline needed work, your premise sounded promising from a commercial perspective. I strongly suggest you do what you gotta do to educate yourself about descriptions and do a rewrite before doing any querying.

[Joe Calabrese]

Both of you get a "time out." Ban will be lifted in 48 hours.
Justino for being an @ss yourself and Iwrite for having no tact.
Have a nice weekend.

[Writer1]

I think IWrite was totally correct in what he wrote. Sure, he could have sugar-coated it, but ultimately, since he's a development exec, his opinion is exactly what the poster asked for. If you look closely, he said the author WAS a writer, but not a screenwriter. So, he recognized some talent, just not much screenwriting craft at the moment.

How many times on these forums have we seen script pages posted that are filled with typos? I dunno know about you, but if a writer doesn't have enough respect for his own work before presenting it, it seems disrespectful to me by asking me to read it.

[TheRuleofThirds]

You should've seen Joe's script that he sent me the other day. Coming from Joe...typos have nothing to do with respect. :)

Instead of focusing on the pasture, I want to focus on the choppers (and I think you should too). Pastures are boring. Especially when you go pastoral describing it. An Apache and a Blackhawk aren't pastoral and they are not boring. So cut to the chase, son! Let's see them blow something up! :D So that's what my first impression is. And when you describe the helicopters, describe them like...you're Rod Serling. Give it an edge. If you want a good mood and mindset to get in, go look around this forum (still in the Screenwriting section) for a thread I made called "Yet Another Interesting Article" or something. It's a 16-page interview with one of the most conservative, gun-loving screenwriters of all time: John Milius. He was paid to write Jeremiah Johnson in antique guns. If you know Walter in The Big Lebowski...he's based off of John Milius and it shows. So write like a guy that would say, "Smokey...you're entering a world of pain."

Actually, here's the link to the thread with the article link in it: http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14967

[WritingFool]

And no TV for either of you.

After reading it, I got the same impression Iwrite got. Its as if youre trying to hard to follow the style techniques you are reading about, and going overboard on making that first impression. Its not about being as poetic as you possibly can be, its about a visual experience.
Sure, go ahead and use metaphors if need be, but the way you have written this up is more like the setting for a novel, rather than a screenplay.

[TheRuleofThirds]

Sure, go ahead and use metaphors if need be, but the way you have written this up is more like the setting for a novel, rather than a screenplay.

Bingo. Books just seem so boring. I would die before I read a 108 page book, but I read Joe's script in one sitting the other day and felt like I achieved something. Screenplays seem to cut out all the fat. Plus, you don't get as overwhelmed because you see more white on the page than you do in a book.

[Boo_Radley]

I wish I could find who mentioned the articleSite link removed per request of other site's Webmaster

[/color]

The thing about the "first ten page" guideline...and bear with me while I try to find the right words, here...

...when told the first ten pages should make a strong impression, it's not so much in regards to beautiful scenery. What the first ten pages should do is make the reader want to go on to page eleven, first and foremost. This is accomplished by introducing an interesting character, or an interesting action sequence, or a terrifying scare -- but all we have is a couple paragraphs which provide none of these things, so there's not really a lot to go on. That being the case, the only comments which I believe have any grounds would be in regards to the technical aspect of what you've posted.

Firstly, while I've always thought there should be some leeway in regards to writing in prose, I agree it's not something you want to overdo.

I think you could amalgamate the first paragraph with the slug line. The slug line reads "mountain pasture," and then you repeat that the scene begins in a pasture in the description. Perhaps something like:

EXT. NORTH CAROLINA APPALACHIANS - WINTER - NIGHT

A serene mountain pasture encased in forestry. Gentle snow drifts lazily to the ground.

Mind you, this is just an example and, I'm sure, could easily be written better.

Your introduction of the two choppers is understated. Having been transported in a few military 'coptors myself, choppers don't just emerge from the shadows quietly. The CHOPPING ROAR of their propellers precede them, and the air itself seems to SHATTER as the airborne juggernauts draw near. Yes, screenplays should concentrate on the visuals as a rule, but they also have sounds. I think sounds should be every bit as dynamic as the visuals themselves when you write them.

What I'm getting overall is that perhaps you tried to hard to grab us with your first few lines and sacrificed some basic screenplay rules. Perhaps you should post more pages so we can get a better understanding of your opening scene because so far, all we've got is a mountain pasture and a pair of helicoptors showing up. These two things alone are not enough to establish tone or story.

However, these are just my opinions.:)

[Enigma]

Both of you get a "time out." Ban will be lifted in 48 hours.
Justino for being an @ss yourself and Iwrite for having no tact.
Have a nice weekend.


Joe, actually I appreciate the comments made. I am, on the other hand, always offended by those hypocrites and cute little children with a master’s degree who sugar-coat remarks and in doing so never make a contribution because they'd rather be politically correct than take a risk. I didn’t come to the forum to hear how great I am, rather how I can improve.



If Justino wants to be an ***, okay, so long as he understand he’s not to turn to me for help and that I will not run from a fight. As for IWrite not having tact, well, that ain’t my strong suit either, so relax. I can truthfully say that I once pissed off Pope John-Paul with an article I wrote, so I didn’t consider IWrite’s remarks the least bit offensive.



IWrite was right on one other thing; I am a writer but not a screenwriter. Having a talent for raising money makes me a better screenwriter than I know I am, the same as editors and re-write make me a better reporter than I am.



Here I was experimenting with style based on the article I read (and the credentials the writer has). I stole that scene from real life. It happened pretty much like I described, and it was scary as hell!



So, no harm, no foul as far as I’m concerned.

[Enigma]

... Firstly, while I've always thought there should be some leeway in regards to writing in prose, I agree it's not something you want to overdo.

I completely agree. It's that first sentence or two I'm trying to reach out for, by posing a basic question; why are two war birds out there in the dark? Something like:

FADE IN

EXT. MOUNTAIN PASTURE - NIGHT

The small, picturesque pasture is protected from the cold by the thick, impenetrable forest that surrounds it.

There’s a low WHINING sound; idling jet engines.

Sub-title: WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA

NEW ANGLE - THE SHADOWS


... Your introduction of the two choppers is understated. Having been transported in a few military 'coptors myself, choppers don't just emerge from the shadows quietly....


I didn't need the "Longbow," but I did the Hawk. I put it in for the visual effect. And, brother, does that thing ever make a statement! The two birds are just waiting, hiding, saving fuel, which raises the question - what's about to happen? Oh, yes, when they go on the attack, they do come out of there big time, like you'd expect.

However, these are just my opinions.:)

And they are valued. If I can ever return the favor....

[Joe Calabrese]

I do not ban, reprimand, edit and/or delete posts to protect or otherwise sheild others from harm.

We are all big boys and girls and can take jerks, pompous attitudes and otherwise mean spirited people with stride, however, the board doesn't care whether you can take it, the rules are in place so all must follow them.

RULE #1 through #10
Respect your fellow writer!

That's Jenna's rule and I enforce it to the best of my ability.

The purpose of this board is not to sugar coat either, but let me remind you that a critique is to point out errors and why-- Even better would be how to make it better. Adding snide comments just causes trouble and let's face it. We have trouble makers here.

Although Iwrite's post wasn't directly bannable, his posts of late have had a cummilative effect. Same goes for Justino.

Now Third.
As for my typos. I have never made claims to be a grammarian and have always stated that I could care less about typos in early drafts.

So, when you become a producer or agent with the power to greenlight a project, I'll make sure everything I send you be perfect. Until then, don't use my name as the butt of one of your jokes and always expect typos from me on a first draft, especially when I warn you of them beforehand.

[Joe Calabrese]

And everybody should remember that you are
ALL screenwriters and not just writers!

You may have not perfected your craft-- yet.
You may have not gotten that one great concept-- yet.
You may not have sold a script or gotten an agent-- yet.

But you are trying. And as long as you have written one slugline, you are a screenwriter.

"Amatuer" means doing it for the love of it, but has absolutely no bearing on the quality, determination or talent level of those who are "so called" pros.

So, everyone here should always regard everyone else as a screenwriter. Just add the word "inexperienced," or "seasoned," or similar words to that title.

[TheRuleofThirds]

Amare--to love. Amo scribere.

[dpaterso]

Ain't been able to post for a couple of days, so this is probably out of date--

Apaches carry tank-busting Hellfire missiles, and yes they are formidable war machines. The contrast of peaceful mountain pasture and clattering death on the wing could be effective. I'd give you some leeway with your opening page(s) but already, with just a couple of paragraphs, you've got me wondering whether what follows is going to be prose or screenplay. What's the title of this thread again? Hmmm, "First impressions..."

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57/scripts.htm)

[JERETHAL]

My first thought was " oh no, a novel writer trying to write a screenplay".

[Joe Calabrese]

My first impression is that is is very well written, but things contradict and are vague to what I would hope you wish to convey.

You tell me it's winter, but I have to guess to whether there's snow? You say it's dark and shadowy, but is that because it's night or the thickness of the trees?

My point being that for me, I get feelings but not specifics to back up or support those feelings. Rather than tell me it's cold, show it. Snow and ice conveys cold. It's visual.

There is also too much info that is somewhat redundant. Pristine and peaceful, gentle and breeze.

Also, using ing verbs kills the action.

Word choice I feel is also a problem as some indicated. Gentle for a whisper that is to be evil just doesn't work for me.

But I feel that the biggest problem is tension and tone. For me it doesn't build. I know you want to show a contrast. First silent, then choppers, first nature's beauty, then the awesome power of man.

You can still be literary to an extent, but make each word count and go with visuals rather than concepts or feelings. Also, know when to cap. It can add emphasis.

On a first pass, I would write something like this:

EXT. APPALACHIAN MOUNTAINS - NIGHT

Snow covers the entire mountain range, which lays thick with trees which sway slightly from the night's gentle breeze.

A SMALL PASTURE -

A furry, snow rabbit scampers about for food in this wintery oasis, hidden within the impenetrable forest.

SUPER: "Southwestern North Carolina"

All is peaceful and silent, until shadows MOVE and the dead of night awakens with with a ROAR.

SUDDENLY!

Two US Army helicopters, a lethal Apache AH-64/D "Longbow" gunship and the other an MH-60 Black Hawk, SWOOP down from the tree line."

Now, mine may not be the best, but I think it is an example of being more visual and is much leaner.

[Enigma]

Ain't been able to post for a couple of days, so this is probably out of date--

I think a couple of us may have broken something on the database that caused it to shut down. Sorry. http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon11.gif

Apaches carry tank-busting Hellfire missiles, and yes they are formidable war machines. The contrast of peaceful mountain pasture and clattering death on the wing could be effective. I'd give you some leeway with your opening page(s) but already, with just a couple of paragraphs, you've got me wondering whether what follows is going to be prose or screenplay. What's the title of this thread again? Hmmm, "First impressions..."

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57/scripts.htm)

I considered everyone's advice - all of which was appreciated - and got off the prose kick right after the opening sentence. Maybe it'll work, maybe not.

And, you're right, a "Longbow" is a formidable war machine with great visuals. It can carry a long list of weapons, but the electronics are even more impressive. There's a Ranger mountain training base near here, plus this area is a contour flight zone, meaning the birds can fly as low as they want, day or night. And they do want, especially at night. Nobody minds or complains. Those guys are learning how to stay alive.

[scripter1]

Where are the pilots? And what are they doing?

I guess I want to know when characters are going to be intro'd.

[dpaterso]

Where are the pilots? And what are they doing?
I guess I want to know when characters are going to be intro'd.The helicopters ARE characters. When pursuing the human "hero," they hover and turn to look at each other as if they're talking face to face, like the choppers in CAPRICORN ONE. We come to realize they have personalities, and we're treated to flashbacks of the helicopter manufacturing line when they were put together and came alive for the first time. This is their story. Tragedy awaits us at the end of Act II when, sadly, Death From Above #2 flies into a cliff in a dramatic act of self-sacrifice.

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57/scripts.htm)

[Enigma]

The helicopters ARE characters. When pursuing the human "hero," they hover and turn to look at each other as if they're talking face to face, like the choppers in CAPRICORN ONE. We come to realize they have personalities, and we're treated to flashbacks of the helicopter manufacturing line when they were put together and came alive for the first time. This is their story. Tragedy awaits us at the end of Act II when, sadly, Death From Above #2 flies into a cliff in a dramatic act of self-sacrifice.

-Derek
Derek's Web Page - stories, screenplays, novels, insanity. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57/scripts.htm)

AN ACCURATE OBSERVATION, WELL PUT!

[scripter1]

kind of like a pumped up, more violent version of the forthcoming Pixar movie CARS.

[IWrite]

As moderator of this forum it is well within Joe’s rights to run this forum as he sees fit – but his definition of respecting your fellow writer and mine are obviously quite different. Adults bicker, and snap and tease and are not always on their best behavior - but we are still adults. Treating adults like children in my view is disrespectful. Announcing to the board you had given quote "time-outs" is disrespectful. As I've said to Joe about Justino before. Nothing Justino has ever said on this board - is meaner than the personal attacks he's endured by his peers for saying them. And Justino is just being Justino. It's who he is. He's not going change. He's not hurting anybody, he's simply being a blowhard. To me it shows a lot of disrespect for the adults on this board to treat them like they are unable to handle other adults who act in a manner they don't like. And if there are some people who can't handle Justino's attitude - I suggest they take it as an opportunity to learn to do so - there are blowhards in all walks off life and in the real world - there are no hall monitors to complain to - there is no one handing out punishment - you simply have to deal with the a-holes of the world. I checked all the posts on the day Joe decided to ban him - it appears Joe banned Justino for vigorously debating an unpopular political/religious position on the "take it outside board" A board, incidentally that is promoted by the administrator of this site as a place for: "Fights, flame wars, and an endless supply of "yo mama" jokes. If you want to duke it out, here's the spot." Less than genteel behavior is not only allowed but expected on that board - it is in fact is raison d'etre. So who's the one showing disrespect - the one passionatley espousing an opinion in an area set-up to do just that - or the one who pulls out a muzzle - for views he apparently disagrees with?

I show respect for the people on this board by treating them the same way I treat my peers – like adults who can handle the truth rather than children who need to be coddled and lied to for fear of offending. I show respect for those on this board by holding their work up to the same high standards I hold professional writers work up to – because in the end those are the standards they need to achieve. I show respect for my fellow writers by giving critiques designed to make them better writers who write better screenplays as opposed to critiques that build self-esteem, (I assume that the parents, elementary school teachers, clergy, etc. have taken care of that). I show respect for my fellow writers by being honest about the business and the odds of success because the only way you can survive is if you have a realistic idea of what you are up against.

I may be blunt – I may be tactless – but I exhibit a lot more respect by being honest and treating people here like adults than those who dance around the edges because they don’t want to offend. Sometimes the truth hurts – but once you have a chance to digest – the pain fades and the ideas flow.

Joe appears to judge respect by tone as opposed to substance and intent. That is his right, but it’s something I can’t abide by. I’m not gonna walk on eggshells wondering if any given pointed comment will get me punished like I’m a child or ultimately banned like a drunk at a bar. I’m an adult and a professional writer and have no desire to contribute to a community that operates this way.

I have had conversations with Joe about this before when I felt he banned or threatened to ban other writers unfairly. It is one thing to censor and censure libelous statements, invasions of privacy, threatening language, vulgarity, hate speech, etc. It is another thing entirely to censor and censure individuals for being quote “tactless.” All the more so when it’s a board dedicated to writers – people who one would think have a greater stake in the concept of self expression and free speech than the average person and therefore more tolerance regarding expression. I realize this is a private board and therefore free speech isn't legally relevant, however for me as a principle it's always relevent. Joe told me he’s not a big proponent of free speech – so maybe that explains it, but whatever is behind it, it’s unacceptable to me.

I wasn’t going to bother explaining, but I thought it was only right to let those of you who have expressed gratitude to me, either on the boards or through PM’s, know why I was choosing to no longer participate on this forum. When I think of the writer’s whose attitude would not be tolerated here, because they have a tendency to not always “play nice” – it’s just sad. But to paraphrase Woody Allen, I wouldn’t want to join any club that wouldn’t want Dorothy Parker as a member. And Joe's interpretation of what constitutues respect is better suited for the the always “nice” Barney and the Teletubbies than anyone from the Algonquin Round Table - who were all known for their vicious and lethal tongues but were among the best writers of their day. Pity. For those of you unfamiliar with Parker and the Round Table – google them.

Good luck to all of you (even Joe).

[Joe Calabrese]

Yes, we are all adults.

A corporation is full of adults too, but in a business atmosphere, if one employee makes a snide or rude comment, or has a bad attitude towards others, or is disrespectful, or even hints of unprofessionalism, that employee will be talked to by his/her superior and warned, even if what the employee did was justified in his/her mind. If the attitude or comments do not improve, that employee will be fired.

This forum is run the same way.

I do not have to justify why Justino (although banned for profanity here in this forum and not anything said in the take it ouside forum) and Iwrite were banned temporarily, but I felt it was within the guidelines of this forum and within what is expected from professionals which we, if not already there, strive to become.

Sure we can joke around and have fun like workers after work at the local pub, but still, we are not friends, we are collegues and as such you wouldn't start telling jokes of poor taste to collegues or slap your boss on the rear for a job well done, even at the bar after work-- unless they were close friends, which we are not.

And I won't ban from only one instance, since we all have bad days, but a pattern of bad behavior will demand action.

Of course if anyone is warned or banned and felt it was unjust, you can PM or email Jenna and state your case. If I ever ban someone unjustly and Jenna tells me I was wrong in doing so, I will gladly reverse the action and step down as moderator.

As for this is the place for flame wars, etc... There are rooms in this forum created for that purpose. I expect that everyone in this room behave with the same professionalism as would be in a corporate atmosphere as I described above.

Sorry to see you go Iwrite. Your experience and knowledge was valuable to us all. I only hope that you take away with you something of value from us as well.

[Joe Calabrese]

Joe told me he’s not a big proponent of free speech – so maybe that explains it,

I believe in freedom of speech, but Iwrite decided to take what I said out of context.

Freedom of Speech should be a shield to protect, not a weapon to attack.

[Enigma]

kind of like a pumped up, more violent version of the forthcoming Pixar movie CARS.


Not, unfortunantly, a major factor in my story. My comment was to commend, no, applaude the anology depaterso made about the war birds being characters, for in a way they are, and it struck a cord I'd about forgotten. Several times I've watched and listened to pilots "talk" to their aircraft just before going on a combat mission. It's a very emotional experience. And very, very private. Remember when the guy talked to the car he'd built in Days Of Thunder? Multiply the intensity by a factor of one thousand, keeping in mind things like that do happen in real life, in combat, and if the pilot and bird don't take care of each other, neither comes back.

I think it would be a great story to tell.

[BrackettWilderDiamond]

I wasn’t going to bother explaining, but I thought it was only right to let those of you who have expressed gratitude to me, either on the boards or through PM’s, know why I was choosing to no longer participate on this forum...

Good luck to all of you (even Joe).



JOEY STARRETT

Pa's got things for you to do, and Mother wants you. I know she does. Shane. Shane! Come back! 'Bye, Shane.

[Boo_Radley]

I'm sorry you've decided to leave, Iwrite. I've learned a great deal from you, AND Joe, and owe the both of you a debt of gratitude for sharing your knowledge and professional experience in regards to the craft, business and emotion of screenwriting.

It's a shame this couldn't have been settled peacefully between all concerned, but having my own website I know disagreements don't always come to a peaceful conclusion.

Again, I'm sorry to see you go. And thanks for sharing your expertise with those who needed it -- including me.

[TheRuleofThirds]

Credentials and experience are no substitute for old-fashioned humility.

[StephieM]

:cry: This may be too late, but I really wish you would not leave IWrite. I think you are a tremendous asset to this forum and it would be ashame to see you go. Although I haven't always seen your point of view on things, (Your feedbacks usually lead me to clenched teeth and cursings :) ), but they got me thinking, and in the long run I learned to appreciate your opinions. Without you I'd still be writing cliche. I really wish you would reconsider and that you and Joe could reach a common ground. I don't think Joe intentionally meant to deliver the shortened ban in an insulting way, I think it was more of a lack of a better way to word it. But that is only my opinion. Either way, you will truely be missed.

This is not to say that no one else is appreciated. I admire all of those with the gutts and courage to post, and also to take the time to share your impressions. As far as I am concerned, everyone here is an asset. As Joe said, we are all screenwriters, no matter our experience, and we are all striving for the same thing.

Joe-
I respect your authority over this forum. You did what you are expected to do in the given situation. You are an excellent moderator!

Steph