The Founding Fathers [Archive] - Absolute Write Water Cooler

View Full Version : The Founding Fathers

Gretad08

09-23-2009, 07:45 PM

I've noticed that different names are invoked from time to time regarding the writers of the constitution and other men/women involved in the creation of our nation.

My questions are these:

Which founder or revolutionary character do you most agree with and why? Whose words most affect your opinions about the current political climate?

SPMiller

09-23-2009, 07:50 PM

The opinions and beliefs of historical figures at the time of the USA's founding don't match well with modern party platforms or ideological camps. It would be difficult if not impossible to choose a single person who would have best represented my views.

Norman D Gutter

09-23-2009, 08:00 PM

The only principles of public conduct that are worthy of a…man are to sacrifice estate, ease, health, and applause, and even life, to the sacred calls of his country. These…sentiments in private life make the good citizen; in public life the patriot and the hero….I pray God…if ever I should [be brought to the…trial], it will then be known how far I can reduce to practice these principles which I know to be founded in truth.James Otis, arguing against the Writs of Assistance, February 1761, the opening salvo of the American Revolution.

robeiae

09-23-2009, 08:03 PM

James Madison.

The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted.--James Madison

Since the general civilization of mankind, I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.--James Madison

Wayne K

09-23-2009, 08:05 PM

Common Sense, Thomas Paine.

Selah March

09-23-2009, 08:08 PM

"All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."
Thomas Jefferson

Diana Hignutt

09-23-2009, 08:19 PM

Thomas Jefferson:

"All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

"Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day."

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

"I cannot live without books."

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

And

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

Because I believe this stuff with all of my heart.

AMCrenshaw

09-23-2009, 08:22 PM

"began to separate the male from the female hemp... rather too late."

-- G. Washington

;)

Haggis

09-23-2009, 08:44 PM

I can't pick just one founding father, but here are a few quotations from Hamilton just because:

In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men the great difficulty lies in this: You must first enable the government to control the governed, and in the next place, oblige it to control itself.

Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal.

When the sword is once drawn, the passions of men observe no bounds of moderation.

A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.

...for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attended, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.

Power may be justly compared to a great river. While kept within its bounds it is both beautiful and useful, but when it overflows its banks, it is then too impetuous to be stemmed; it bears down all before it, and brings destruction and desolation wherever it goes.

Gretad08

09-23-2009, 08:48 PM

Wow! Great quotes so far.

robeiae

09-23-2009, 08:51 PM

I can't pick just one founding father, but here are a few quotations from Hamilton just because:

<META name=ProgId content=Word.Document><META name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12"><META name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 12"><LINK rel=File-List href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Cstevepc%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cms ohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><LINK rel=themeData href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Cstevepc%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cms ohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><LINK rel=colorSchemeMapping href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Cstevepc%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cms ohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><STYLE>  </STYLE>In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men the great difficulty lies in this: You must first enable the government to control the governed, and in the next place, oblige it to control itself.<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p>
Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal.<o:p></o:p>
When the sword is once drawn, the passions of men observe no bounds of moderation.<o:p></o:p>
A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.<o:p></o:p>
...for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attended, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.<o:p></o:p>
Power may be justly compared to a great river. While kept within its bounds it is both beautiful and useful, but when it overflows its banks, it is then too impetuous to be stemmed; it bears down all before it, and brings destruction and desolation wherever it goes.<o:p></o:p>

Yeah, I just about put down my choice as a tie between Hamilton and Madison.

Gretad08

09-23-2009, 08:55 PM

No love for Adams or Franklin from anyone?

Haggis

09-23-2009, 09:01 PM

Many of these quotations might help explain why a general mistrust of government seems to be a national characteristic. At the very least, we seem to have the good sense to keep a very careful watch over those charged with running it.

Diana Hignutt

09-23-2009, 09:02 PM

No love for Adams or Franklin from anyone?

Nah, Adams lost me with the Alien and Sedition Act, and Franklin, while cool, never did it for me founding father-wise (I love all his inventions though).

Haggis

09-23-2009, 09:07 PM

Of all of the founding fathers, it may well be Adams that did the most toward pushing congress to declare independence.

Norman D Gutter

09-23-2009, 09:21 PM

Probably against the rules, but I'll add a quote from Thomas Jefferson that I couldn't find a while ago.

…to preserve…independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debts, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people…must come to…be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferer...contented with penury, obscurity, exile, and the glory of the nation. This example leads to us the salutary lesson, that private fortunes are destroyed by public as well as by private extravagance. And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for a second; that second for a third; and so on, till the bulk of the society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery, and to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering. Then begins, indeed, the bellum omnium in omnia, [the war of all against all] which some philosophers observing to be so general in this world, have mistaken it for the natural, instead of the abusive state of man. And the fore horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression.
Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816 [emphasis added]

Lost World

09-23-2009, 10:01 PM

Want Franklin? Here he is, though it's hard to say if this is what he really said, as I've seen this quote written several different ways; however, I'm sure you'll get the point:

"Those who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

AMCrenshaw

09-23-2009, 10:26 PM

Ben Franklin had it in for the Quakers, a group that has been spiritually and politically influential to me over the years...

Romantic Heretic

09-23-2009, 10:33 PM

Jefferson, because of the quote Diane posted. He understood about balance and wisdom.

Gregg

09-24-2009, 12:28 AM

Lots of good ones and collectively they were better than the individuals.

I found an excellent quote from Samuel Adams:

"Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, and thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can."

Another from James Madison, widely regarded as the "Father of The Constitution"

"The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny”

CDaniel

09-24-2009, 12:50 AM

I believe that this quote by Ben Franklin still applies to this day.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Franklin's Contributions to the Conference on February 17 (III) Fri, Feb 17, 1775

dclary

09-24-2009, 01:04 AM

Franklin, Paine, Jefferson.

And that little mouse who helped draft the declaration of independence.

Gary

09-24-2009, 01:36 AM

Thomas Jefferson, whose quotes I agree with would fill the page.

Don

09-24-2009, 11:34 PM

Gretad08

09-24-2009, 11:45 PM

First, Thomas Jefferson. Then Madison. No need to repeat the quotes already given, which are sufficient evidence. Madison in Federalist 41, I believe, also clarifies the "General Welfare" debate in a way that should get everyone in Washington today impeached, and considering that he wrote it...

And then there's George Washington, for this little gem.

How about this one from Federalist 41 Don?

How could a readiness for war in time of peace be safely prohibited, unless we could prohibit, in like manner, the preparations and establishments of every hostile nation? The means of security can only be regulated by the means and the danger of attack. They will, in fact, be ever determined by these rules, and by no others.

Gretad08

09-25-2009, 11:16 PM

So I have more questions:

What specific principles of our original government do you feel are alive and well today?

Which principles have become confounded or overly complicated through years of interpretation?

Diana Hignutt

09-25-2009, 11:43 PM

Easy.

None.

And, all of them.

Zoombie

09-26-2009, 12:54 AM

We got sick of slavery about seventy odd years after our founding...