Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 2

[James D. Macdonald]

No, PA's cracks about SF writers came first. The whole Writer Beware crew consists of SF writers (and is an official part of SFWA), I'm an SF writer, and Dave Kuzminski is an SF writer.

SF writers are close to their fans, there's a lot of crossover between fan writers and pro writers, so SF writers seem to be on the forefront of rooting out scammers.

[James D. Macdonald]

Taken from this thread: Becoming a "midlist" author... (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224041)

Oh, Ghod. "Confessions of a midlist writer" again.

Here's a word of advice for that author: Frontlist money + backlist sales does not average out to midlist.

And poor Jane Austen Doe! Five books in ten years? What's she been doing with her time?

$150,000 advance, with all the promotion that goes with it, yielding only 10,000 sales, means that the book wasn't just a "disappointment," it was a smoking hole in the runway. It's hard to see how she managed this unless readers hated it, and told their friends that they hated it. Or perhaps the publisher bound the copies in decaying codfish. But ...

Current status: Out of print. Small but loyal cult following; 10 years later adoring fans still show up at readings, clutching well-worn copies, eager to tell me how book changed their lives.So here's some practical advice for her: The book's undoubtedly reverted by now. Find a high-prestige small press that's willing to take it. Get it back into print. Don't insist on an advance.

Second book: Ghost writer for celebrity. Hint for Jane A. Doe: The sales weren't for your golden words, they were for the "author's" name on the cover. Practical advice: This is a good gig. See if your agent can get you one of these per year. Treat it as your day job.

Attempted book: A short-story anthology? Srsly? Hint: Don't do that.

Third book: That money you spent on a publicist was wasted. Also: rather than fiddle around with screenwriters and such, write another book.

Speaking of money, don't be an idiot with money. The kid doesn't need Nikes when Keds will do.

Book Four: $80,000 advance. Why are you wasting time and money on publicists? Write another book. And, if you're doing this to be recognized by total strangers on airplanes, then ... maybe you should reevaluate your priorities.

Book Five, $50,000 offer. Why are you complaining again?

Never, ever forget: The Reader is King. Readers aren't liking your books. Choices: Write different books, or write the same books under a different name.

And what is the moan? An average of $40K per year. That's right around the median US single-person income.

I see that she's complaining that publishing is now a business. The article was originally published in 2004.

News flash: Publishing has always been a business. You can find Raymond Chandler making the same complaint in the 1950s. You can find H. P. Lovecraft making exactly the same complaint in the 1920s. Get with the program -- and write books that the public actually wants to read.

Other reactions from actual mid-list authors:

http://nihilistic-kid.livejournal.com/405207.html

http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/002699.html

===============

Jane Austen Doe did do one good thing: She inspired Scalzi to write this:
Even More Long-Winded (But Practical) Writing Advice (http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/002697.html)

===============

Okay, definitions:

The frontlist consists of the books that are in the front of the publisher's catalog (where the bookstore buyer starts looking at the offerings). The closer to the front, the bigger the push. These are books that each have a full page in the catalog. The backlist is the books that are listed at the back of the catalog. Previous years' books that are still in print, perennial sellers, that sort of stuff. Generally just a listing of titles and authors, because the bookstore buyer presumably knows what those books are, and how they're selling in each store.

The midlist is everything in the catalog that's in the middle, between the frontlist and the backlist.

That's all it is.

One reason the midlist has been "vanishing" is that the publishers have been splitting their offerings into more and more lines and imprints, each with their own catalog and their own frontlist. The same or greater numbers of books are on offer, but fewer of them are in the middles of catalogs. It isn't the vanishing midlist, it's the expanding frontlist.

There are other possibilities. Our first adult novel wasn't frontlist, backlist, or midlist. It was offered as an "off-list special."

[James D. Macdonald]

Bad decisions make good stories.

[euclid]

Jim, I released my first full length ebook on Sept 1. It's called St Patrick's Day Special and features a detective called Ben Jordan. This morning, I googled Ben Jordan and found another, pre-existing detective with that name. Ben Jordan, paranormal investigator is the main character in 8 games (not books - not yet, anyhow).

The question is: Should I change my main character's name? It would mean withdrawing the book and republishing it. Not a big job, but all my promotional efforts have been using the name Ben Jordan.

[James D. Macdonald]

No, don't change it.

There are hundreds and hundreds of real people named "Ben Jordan."

Any name you choose is likely to be shared with someone.

[euclid]

Thanks, Jim. You surprised me. I expected the other answer.
Thanks again.

PS I am an idiot. I should have googled the name before I published the book.
It might be worth mentioning this in your writing instructional book when it comes out :)

[James D. Macdonald]

Sure, Google is your friend, but don't let it paralyze you. You can use it to make sure that the fantasy name you give to one of your characters isn't a thundering obscenity in Quechua (which will get a you letter from someone in Cuzco), but other than that ... so you named your heroine in your spy thriller Fanny Price. So what?

[James D. Macdonald]

Oh my goodness.

And y'all thought we were kidding about vacuuming your cat (https://www.shedpal.com/)....

[Dr.Gonzo]

Reminds me of this:

http://www.litterkwitter.com/en/index.php

Don't they look serious when they do their stuff?

[allenparker]

Reminds me of this:

http://www.litterkwitter.com/en/index.php

Don't they look serious when they do their stuff?


I think we have found the bottom. Sinking any lower would be redundant.

[James D. Macdonald]

No need to pay the big bucks to learn how to toilet train your cat. Instructions here (http://www.karawynn.net/mishacat/toilet.html).

The problem comes when your kitty discovers how much fun it is to flush the toilet, whether she's used it or not, at all hours of the day and night.

Also: Don't you have a chapter to write?

[James D. Macdonald]

I'm pleased to report that Tor is bringing out our Mageworlds books in electronic editions. http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/013232.html

[thomas86]

Just wanted to say that this is an amazing thread...

I've been reading it for about a half hour now.

Some really great insights and discussions.

I have nothing to ad to it, just wanted to give you guys some props!

:D

[James D. Macdonald]

Thank you, thomas86. The best way to thank us is to write amazing fiction and publish it. We want to read more good stuff.

[thomas86]

will do!! :)

[noema]

Bad decisions make good stories.

Thanks, I found this very helpful today.

[James D. Macdonald]

A simple four-item formula for turning story into fiction (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/013243.html)

[Shika Senbei]

A simple four-item formula for turning story into fiction (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/013243.html)

Yay! More formulas!

[allenparker]

A simple four-item formula for turning story into fiction (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/013243.html)


Does that mean if a single event in a story is not able to be linked with previous or future events it should be removed?

[James D. Macdonald]

It's the same thing I've been saying for years: Everything needs to advance the plot, reveal character, or support the theme.

But if a single event in the story doesn't connect to other events of the story, why is it there?

[Shika Senbei]

But if a single event in the story doesn't connect to other events of the story, why is it there?

Good question. I'lll ask Haruki Murakami next time I see him.

[James D. Macdonald]

Good question. I'lll ask Haruki Murakami next time I see him.

I think you'll find that all of the events in Haruki Murakami's novels interlace in intricate ways.

[batgirl]

I get that bad decisions make for good stories. I'm puzzling over how an intelligent and wary character makes that bad decision plausibly and without losing reader sympathy.
Have you any examples that might clarify this for me?
with much thanks,
-Barbara

[Dolohov]

I get that bad decisions make for good stories. I'm puzzling over how an intelligent and wary character makes that bad decision plausibly and without losing reader sympathy.
Have you any examples that might clarify this for me?


Bad or incomplete information is always handy to provoke a bad decision -- Shakespeare used that one in a number of his plays (Romeo and Juliet, Othello), making use also of the dramatic irony of the audience knowing something that the characters do not.

[allenparker]

I get that bad decisions make for good stories. I'm puzzling over how an intelligent and wary character makes that bad decision plausibly and without losing reader sympathy.
Have you any examples that might clarify this for me?
with much thanks,
-Barbara

Fall in love and a whole raft of bad decisions will float your way. I am constantly amazed at the young ladies surrounding me finding men of ill repute and low countenance to begin their relationships with. I thought at first that the local jail had a sale on degenerates, but that proved to be a false premise.

[Buffysquirrel]

I get that bad decisions make for good stories. I'm puzzling over how an intelligent and wary character makes that bad decision plausibly and without losing reader sympathy.
Have you any examples that might clarify this for me?
with much thanks,
-Barbara

The character thinks someone else knows something that character doesn't actually know. Or thinks the character doesn't know something that they actually do know. One of my characters gets deep deep DEEP into trouble by assuming that some people who are only trying to frighten him are dead serious.

[James D. Macdonald]

The character can face a situation where there are no good choices.

The character can be misinformed. The character can be mistaken. The character can be overconfident, or underconfident. The character might be lacking a crucial piece of information.

"Looking back on it now, the decision to go to Cleveland that night might not have been a good one...."

[batgirl]

Thanks! Rep points all around!

-Barbara

[Jake Barnes]

Shouldn't the bad decision result from a flaw in the character? If the character makes a decision because he doesn't have all the info, maybe it's because he's impulsive. If the bad decision results from something outside of the character (a letter with the important information gets misdelivered by the post office) it seems arbitrary.

[James D. Macdonald]

The protagonist may not be the person who made the bad decision. The mayor of the town may have made a really bone-headed decision that the protagonist now has to deal with.

[JMC2009]

The protagonist may not be the person who made the bad decision. The mayor of the town may have made a really bone-headed decision that the protagonist now has to deal with.


A mayor making a bone-headed decision and making someone else deal with it? No reader would ever believe that something like that would happen. ;)

[movieman]

If the bad decision results from something outside of the character (a letter with the important information gets misdelivered by the post office) it seems arbitrary.

Not really. The movie Brazil, for example, ultimately all comes down to a spelling mistake on a computer printout in a world where mistakes aren't allowed to happen ('I tortured Buttle to death, it's not my fault that it was supposed to be Tuttle'). The characters turn that into a disaster through their responses.

If the plot turns repeatedly on such things, yes, it probably sucks; but I don't see a problem with starting the story with someone else's mistake or bad decision.

[James D. Macdonald]

You're allowed an astounding coincidence or random event to start a story. You just aren't allowed one to give your story its conclusion.

[James D. Macdonald]

E-publishing considered as the California Gold Rush (http://mist-and-snow.livejournal.com/2011/11/29/).

[CC.Allen]

Hello James,

No questions, just a few comments.

First of all, Thank You, for the years that you have put into this thread. I started at the beginning of Volume 1, and am currently up to just past Christmas, 2003. You have been a tremendous help to me in the month or so that I have been coursing through this information.

I have started BIC 2 hours every single day. Thanksgiving morning was going to be difficult, so I set my alarm clock extremely early to get the time in. Turns out, I loved it & am doing that everyday now. I have also begun ‘2 hours every day with UJ’, immediately following.

I wanted to share a few things with you… Your POV examples from Moonlight Becomes You was extremely insightful to me. Opened my eyes to things I really did not understand.

In my WIP (my first ever writing project), I have learned and fixed several things. I am an exclamation point whore. WOW! … never even noticed it. Well, outside of one paragraph (where I have a need for many of them), I have reduced about 40 !s down to just one !. And then, After that, I did a quick little search on “and then”… wow, I’m not even going to tell you how many I had, but I reduced all of them except one very easily. Then I rewrote the entire paragraph of the one that I felt like I needed. So, all gone!

I’m still having a little trouble getting rid of the “She screamed, hollered, whispered, laughed, etc, “Hi There” … I revised many of them to “She said,” … I just can’t bring myself to change several others.

Anyhow, just wanted to say thanks and let you know that at least one person is back at the beginning and attempting to learn what you have been teaching for so long!

~Casey.

[Blue Sky]

Hi Unc and All,

Jim, I was wondering if perhaps, after the holiday assignment, you might consider another ending analysis? To me that was more challenging than beginnings, but fun and useful.

Another thanks for the wealth of knowledge shared on this thread. Although I've written only non-fiction lately, lively, engaging writing remains lively, engaging writing.

[James D. Macdonald]

Genre's letter to literary fiction. (http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2011/12/guest-post-daniel-abrahams-private-letter-from-genre-to-literature/)

[James D. Macdonald]

Hello, Casey. I'm glad you're finding the thread useful.

You don't need to remove/change all the dialog tags to "she/he said," but you do need to think about all of them. They're spices. Without them, the stew is bland. With too many, its inedible.

I can certainly do another ending analysis after the holidays.

And, yes, it's time for another Christmas Challenge.

This year's Christmas Challenge is A Story in Four Days.

First, decide on what your protagonist's problem is. Then decide on a period of four in which the protagonist can reasonably expect to solve it. Thus, if his/her problem is a broken shoelace, a reasonable time to solve it is four minutes. If the problem is a broken marriage, though, the time scale will be more likely four years.

Now, over a four day stretch, write a short story. On the first day, write about the protagonist's attempt to solve that problem in the first time increment. End with discovering that the problem isn't what it seemed at first; there's a new, bigger, hairier problem. Fifteen-hundred words is a good aiming point.

The next writing day, write about the second time increment, as your protagonist attempts to solve this second bigger, hairier problem. This ends, not with the solution to the problem, but with the discovery that the real problem is something entirely different, and far worse, than the protagonist thought. Again, fifteen-hundred words would be nice.

The third writing day, you'll again do fifteen-hundred words, about the third time increment, as your protagonist tries to solve this new, nearly-overwhelming problem. At the end of this section, the protagonist discovers that the problem is really another thing, and its really, really bad. Horrible. Worse than anything that had come before.

The last day, your writing will: Fill the fourth time increment. Resolve this new, horrible problem (through the protagonist's own efforts). And solve the original problem. Thus (with the shoelace example), at the end of the 6,000 words, the protagonist has the murderer who was hiding in the closet neatly tied up and awaiting the police, and is wearing a pair of slip-on shoes so the shoelace problem is solved (she/he can buy a new pair of shoelaces on the way home from work).

Again, write and polish. Present it to your family and friends on Christmas Eve (while waiting for Santa Claus to bring you a new plot point (you've been good!)), revise it according to their comments/what you thought of while reading it aloud, and send it out (to a paying market!) on the second of January, 2012.

[Grunkins]

Genre's letter to literary fiction. (http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2011/12/guest-post-daniel-abrahams-private-letter-from-genre-to-literature/)

Outstanding.

I can only hope there is a reply. But then, who would write it?

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Outstanding.

I can only hope there is a reply. But then, who would write it?
There appear to be several attempts to write Literature's reply to Genre in the comments section of that post. They are not all of them enlightening.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Addendum:

I've spent at least as long as between that last post of mine and this reading the entirety of the Volume 2 thread. HELLO PRODUCTIVITY SINK HOW ARE YOU I AM DOING FINE. And it's fantastic how much of the content from all over the thread is timely to my current writing challenges.

It was funny to see Uncle Jim mention using Strange Horizon's "Stories we see far too often" as a writing challenge, because 1) right there on the page, they say, "Please don't take this as a challenge and insert these elements intentionally," which rather raises the bar*, and 2) I am currently waffling on submitting a story to them that may fall afoul of one of the items not on that page but on their special page of horror tropes (http://www.strangehorizons.com/guidelines/fiction-common-horror.shtml) they see too often.

On the one hand, "Don't reject your own work! There are people to do that for you!" And on the other hand, "This really really is dead center of the intersection of #5 and #6, even if it's also got this literary layering I think they'd get a kick out of."

On the third hand, rereading this thread reminded me that there's also Tor.com to submit the piece to first.

So, thank you as always for this thread. I was going to send it all sorts of traffic via a post over at Boulder Writing Examiner (I'm trying to run a series of posts about "So you've just finished NaNoWriMo. What now?"), except WHERE DID MY AFTERNOON GO I ONLY READ ONE THREAD. So maybe tomorrow.

And then maybe the day after that I'll have a question, once I figure out where I'm at with the various fictional items in the queue that got delayed by NaNoWriMo.

*For what it's worth, I like the idea of using the list as a challenge. I'm just also tickled by the encouragement to use that list in precisely the way it authors urge readers not to. On the other hand, one can submit the results to any number of places other than Strange Horizons.

[Grunkins]

Jim, I've spent the last few days reading Uncle Jim, Undiluted and you have earned yourself another fan.

I'm currently slogging through a badly written first draft of a novel and am thrilled that you actually gave me permission to write badly. Up until now I've been feeling very grim about it and have been questioning my talent.

All my prior writing has been an intolerably slow process of fussing over every line before I allow myself to write the next one. This method simply can't work to write a novel length piece of prose. So I decided JUST GET IT DOWN and worry about making it pretty later. Despite the conscious decision to do this my prose has offended me, paragraph by paragraph. I think you have freed me a bit and I've noticed I'm getting more words on paper over the past few days than I have previously.

Thank you very much and please keep this epic thread alive!

[James D. Macdonald]

People only see your final draft.

The books you read in the library are a final draft that's been edited.

Do not expect your first draft to be as polished as someone else's edited final draft. False expectations can freeze you.

[allenparker]

Grunkins, Maybe Jim will send you the certificate. it worked for me.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

I have committed BIC. Two hours that started with "I don't know what to write!" and ended with "I think this is going to be a novel." About 4500 words so far (which doesn't include the bit where, because I didn't know what to write, I started describing my breakfast). Life is good.

[Grunkins]

I have committed BIC. Two hours that started with "I don't know what to write!" and ended with "I think this is going to be a novel." About 4500 words so far (which doesn't include the bit where, because I didn't know what to write, I started describing my breakfast). Life is good.

Is that 4500 words in a single two-hour BIC session? If so, holy crap.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Is that 4500 words in a single two-hour BIC session? If so, holy crap.
Eek! I wasn't trying to brag. I was just so pleased to have finally managed a 2-hour BIC session -- with actual new material going onto the page!

I type fast. One of my tricks for a 3,000 word day this NaNoWriMo was 4 15-minute word sprints interspersed with 15-minute breaks. Each sprint got me about 750-800 words.

But I suspect I'm in bad habits. With November only just over, now I kept having to tell myself, "It's OK, you can stop and think a little between sentences. Really. The fingers can pause for a second or two here and there."

What's hard for me isn't the word count or even coming up with something to write, but the BICness of it all. I get restless. Two hours straight is a push. I did it in half-hour increments with small breaks in between during which time I combed some wool for spinning. Combining writing with spinning is kind of nice.

[Grunkins]

Jim, regarding the—mdash—in manuscript form, is it written as--?

[Calliopenjo]

Hi Grunkins,

I'm not Uncle Jim but for em-dashes, I use Alt 0151. Hold the ALT key while typing the numbers. It works if you have a number pad on your keyboard.

Somebody else might have a suggestion if you don't have a number pad.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

I try not to use any extended-ASCII characters when in manuscript form. Straight quotes, not curly; three periods rather than MSWord's ellipsis symbol; two hyphens together rather than Alt 0151.

I am not sure whether the preferred convention is for spaces around the em-dash -- or not--though. I've gotten in the habit of spaces though.

[Grunkins]

Judging by UJ's posts, and his tendency to type in ms format, I'm guessing the "--" is another typewriter relic.

[sussura]

Jim - Just wanted to say that I'm loving lurking this thread (which I guess means that I'm de-lurking) & will participate more when I am finished editing the current draft of the WIP.

[James D. Macdonald]

If you use "--" there's no doubt that you intended an em-dash.

[Shika Senbei]

Is that 4500 words in a single two-hour BIC session? If so, holy crap.

Oh, I do that ever so often. It's no biggie, although it does help if you can type fast.

[James D. Macdonald]

4500 words in two hours is less than 40 words per minute. That's easily doable by any touch-typist.

[Jonathan Figaro]

Hey Jim,

I wanted to know do you know any writing work shops in New York city?


Continued from Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1
(http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6710)
======================

It strikes me that there's a need for a thread on the art and craft of writing commercial novels.

To that end, I'd like to start that discussion. I plan to put down my thoughts on the elements of professional-quality fiction. I'll answer questions, and go where ever the discussion leads. I'll do some notes on the business of writing too.

Here are my qualifications for starting this topic:

My bibliography (http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/biblio.htm)

A workshop (http://www.sff.net/paradise/) I help teach every year.

My mutant talent is to make my opinions sound like facts.

=============

I have two basic rules: everything that's said should be true, and everything should be helpful.

=============

There's one other thing that needs to be said, McIntyre's First Law: Under the right circumstances anything I tell you can be wrong.

[Grunkins]

I can type 80ish words per minute, but I can't write 80 words per minute. In today's two hour BIC time I pumped out about 750 words and was pleased with it.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Today's was a good 5,000 -- well, it was 5,000. I'm not sure about "good." The last half hour was mostly me talking to myself about worldbuilding: "Yes, but if that's the case, I need this other thing, which means I need an explanation, which I don't have right now... OK, start over. What do I know for certain?" After that there may have been a numbered list. I'm not sure.

Tomorrow may involve the necessary new scenes needed for an overdue short story rewrite. Gah. Rewriting. I wish I could just get it right the first time. Unfortunately, I need to read it on the page before I know what it is I'm writing in the first place.

[James D. Macdonald]

Hey Jim,

I wanted to know do you know any writing work shops in New York city?

Sorry, can't help you. I'm not part of the NYC workshop scene. I'm sure there are some, and I'm pretty sure your local librarian can help you find them.

[James D. Macdonald]

The past, the present, and the future walk into a bar.

It got tense.

[Shika Senbei]

The past, the present, and the future walk into a bar.

It got tense.

...
Yes, and?

[LindaJeanne]

...
Yes, and?
ba-dum-ching (rimshot) :)

[Shika Senbei]

ba-dum-ching (rimshot) :)

This thread needs a laugh track.

[Bartholomew]

A man walks into a bar, gibbering. "I'm a teepee!" he says. "I"m a wigwam! I'm a teepee! I'm a wigwam!"

"Relax," the bartender tells him. "You're two tents."

[OtterFactory]

The past, the present, and the future walk into a bar.

It got tense.

This joke has a presence-perfect.

[James D. Macdonald]

An ion walks into a bar, crying, and orders a beer.

"None of my business," says the bartender, "but what's the problem?"

"It's my little electron," says the ion. "She left me!"

"Are you sure?" asks the bartender.

"I'm positive!"


------------------

Merry Christmas (or other seasonal greeting as appropriate). Has everyone finished the Christmas Challenge?

[zanzjan]

The Bartender says, "We don't serve tachyons here."

A tachyon walks into a bar.

[OtterFactory]

A klutz walks into a bar.

[Shika Senbei]

A bar walks into a bar.

[James D. Macdonald]

Judging by UJ's posts, and his tendency to type in ms format, I'm guessing the "--" is another typewriter relic.


From the Baen Books electronic submission guidelines (http://www.baen.com/FAQS.asp#Manuscript%20Submission%20Guidelines):

Do not use "smart quotes"/curly quotes or single character elipses, mdashes, etc. Use straight quotes and apostrophes, . . ., --, etc.

[Grunkins]

From the Baen Books electronic submission guidelines (http://www.baen.com/FAQS.asp#Manuscript%20Submission%20Guidelines):

Thank you. And merry Christmas.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

I love that electron joke. It's one of my favorites.

Still working on the Story in Four Days. It's amazing what percolates in my head when I procrastinate on a story, but maybe it would percolate faster if I didn't procrastinate so much. I could at least actively poke at it every day, even if the plot solutions haven't yet occurred to me. My writing time hasn't been very regular this holiday week, but I poked at it during the Winter Solstice all-nighter, and I scribbled to myself on it on Christmas Eve. Spent Christmas Day with someone who is also working on the challenge, and we did some brainstorming over cookies.

The story has gotten unexpectedly complex in terms of theme and character interaction & development. The process of assembling it has been oddly like assembling a novel. That's weird for me, even if I'm not on team lime pie.

Anyway, that's where a lot of this week's BIC is going. Merry Christmas, Blessed Winter Solstice, Happy Hanukkah, and to all a Happy 2012. (And I guess a Happy Boxing Day, what with today being the 26th. Happy re-gifting, gift-exchanging, and passing on of good things!)

[James D. Macdonald]

Jim, I was wondering if perhaps, after the holiday assignment, you might consider another ending analysis? To me that was more challenging than beginnings, but fun and useful.

You want it, you got it!

The novel will be Lean Mean Thirteen by Janet Evanovich (selected at random). I haven't read it myself; I'll be reading it along with you. It's available in hardcover (should be in many libraries), paperback, and e-text.

We'll discuss the last chapter one month from today: 08 February 2012.

[James D. Macdonald]

I trust everyone's found a copy of Lean Mean Thirteen?

----------------------------

Meanwhile, I've been reading slush lately for a publisher that takes electronic submissions.

Here are some things I've learned:

1) For heaven's sake put the title of your story in the cover letter!

2) Don't name the attached file "MyStory.doc" or "Submission.rtf" -- because there are already about 3,000 files called "MyStory.doc" and "Submission.rtf" in the Incoming box. Give it a meaningful name, sort of like the running head on a paper manuscript: Moby_Dick_Melville.doc, for example.

3) Unless the publisher's guidelines say otherwise, use .rtf. Every recent word-processor can both produce and read .rtf. If you're Really Really Fond of XYWrite from 1991 -- get someone to convert the file before you send it it.

4) It is Totally Unnecessary to put Every Single Friggin' Page in a separate file (e.g. Page001.doc, Page002.doc, Page003.doc, ... Page497.doc). You want to make it easy for the slush reader to keep going, not make him wonder if opening the next file is Too Darned Much Trouble.

[zanzjan]

3) Unless the publisher's guidelines say otherwise, use .rtf. Every recent word-processor can both produce and read .rtf. If you're Really Really Fond of XYWrite from 1991 -- get someone to convert the file before you send it it.

As a note, I've run into periodic weirdness where when I attach an rtf to an email it arrives on the far end as inline gibberish, and it *may* have to do with the recipient using an IMAP server to read mail. This bit me a couple of times last year. I sent an rtf through an IMAP server that I have access to and saw the same behavior when reading mail directly on the server's web interface, but when I then opened the email in a client it was fine. Very frustrating, and so far my googlefu hasn't turned up anything concrete and recent.

4) It is Totally Unnecessary to put Every Single Friggin' Page in a separate file (e.g. Page001.doc, Page002.doc, Page003.doc, ... Page497.doc). You want to make it easy for the slush reader to keep going, not make him wonder if opening the next file is Too Darned Much Trouble.

*blinks* People do this? Like, more than one person? Yeesh.

[James D. Macdonald]

4) It is Totally Unnecessary to put Every Single Friggin' Page in a separate file (e.g. Page001.doc, Page002.doc, Page003.doc, ... Page497.doc). You want to make it easy for the slush reader to keep going, not make him wonder if opening the next file is Too Darned Much Trouble.

Yes, people do this. If it was only once I'd say it was a fluke, but I've seen it twice, so....

I expect it's folks who took the advice to use their word processor like a typewriter a little too literally.

Speaking of which, you don't need to hit the carriage return at the end of every line, either.

[Calliopenjo]

Heard and understood, Uncle Jim.

[Bartholomew]

Yes, people do this. If it was only once I'd say it was a fluke, but I've seen it twice, so....

I expect it's folks who took the advice to use their word processor like a typewriter a little too literally.

Speaking of which, you don't need to hit the carriage return at the end of every line, either.

My mind boggles.

[HapiSofi]

And while you're at it, don't use section headers. Just have one header format -- author, title, page number -- for the whole document. If I want to reformat the document to make it easier to print out and read, I don't want to have to fiddle with all those different section heads.

Your mileage may vary.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

And while you're at it, don't use section headers. Just have one header format -- author, title, page number -- for the whole document. If I want to reformat the document to make it easier to print out and read, I don't want to have to fiddle with all those different section heads.

Your mileage may vary.
I've almost always used "Different Header First Page" or "No Header First Page," whatever my word processor at the time offers, so that the author/title/pagenumber slug begins on page 2. It always seemed redundant to have that in addition to the other Page 1 content: author info in the upper left and the word count in the upper right (accomplished by means of a two-column table), title a third of the way down the page.

That two-column table, by the by, has only just now begun causing me trouble now that I've switched from MS Word to Open Office for creating my RTFs and submitting the majority of my manuscripts electronically. Seems that Open Office isn't very good at preserving formatting in an RTF, especially if one starts off with WordPerfect 5.1 because you can have my WP51 when you pry it from my cold dead motherboard. Thankfully, the editor who alerted me to the resulting wonkiness did buy the story, but told me it wasn't a good idea to use table formatting in a manuscript anyway.

How does one get a word processor document's first page looking like this Page 1 Manuscript Format top-of-page info (http://www.sfwa.org/2008/11/manuscript-preparation/) without tables? I guess maybe just hit TAB a bunch of times after my name on the first line, to approximate a right-justified word count?

It hasn't exactly kept me up nights (especially since I dug out the old copy of MS Word specifically and exclusively for this use; its RTFs preserve the formatting and the page-2-and-onwards header quite nicely), but it's something I do wonder.

[DaveK]

I've found that Libre Office is better than Open Office for RTF support. What really confuses me are the sites that take electronic submission but want them in standard format. But that rant is for another forum.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

Thanks for the recommendation -- I'll check out Libre Office as soon as I get my own computer back from repair. (How's it's WP51 conversion?)

I expect many editors print out electronic submissions, so all the reasons that make standard format useful in hard copy will still apply. There's also value for slush readers in having the slush pile adhere to a consistent format/font/appearance, even if they'll be read on the screen.

[allenparker]

I expect many editors print out electronic submissions, so all the reasons that make standard format useful in hard copy will still apply. There's also value for slush readers in having the slush pile adhere to a consistent format/font/appearance, even if they'll be read on the screen.

I may be wrong, but I expect that the editors read a few lines or a page and decide whether to print off a couple of chapters or not. It would save money and trees to just print the ones that sound interesting. Others may move them to an ereader. That's what I would do.

[James D. Macdonald]

As always, follow the guidelines of the market you're submitting to. Even if the guidelines don't make sense to you, they (for whatever reason) make the publisher's workflow easier, and you want the publisher to have an easy workflow, right?

[darkelf]

How does one get a word processor document's first page looking like this Page 1 Manuscript Format top-of-page info without tables? I guess maybe just hit TAB a bunch of times after my name on the first line, to approximate a right-justified word count?


You set a right aligned tab stop.

In the top left corner of your ruler in either Microsoft Word or OpenOffice Writer (I don't know what it would be in WP) there is a symbol that looks like an L . This sets a left aligned tab stop. If you click on the L it changes to a backwards L. That's a right aligned tab stop. With the tab set to right aligned, click on the ruler at the far right were you want your text to be right aligned. Then after you type the text you want on the left, hit tab once and you should be at the right margin (or where ever you put that tab stop) and anything you type will now be right aligned.

Remember to remove the tab stop after the line you want it on. Other types of tab stops include centered (upside down T) and decimal centered (upside down T with a dot) that will center align numbers on the decimal point.

[James D. Macdonald]

Everyone gets bad reviews from time to time.... (http://leasthelpful.com/tagged/classics-revisited)

The various tabs in WordPerfect:

From the Format menu, choose Line, then Tab Set. You'll get a menu of Right, Left, Center, or Decimal. Choose the one you like.

[Ari Meermans]

Everyone gets bad reviews from time to time.... (http://leasthelpful.com/tagged/classics-revisited)

Those "reviews" are the most unintentionally funny--and most illiterate--reviews I've read.

Beowulf is "too 'Hemmingway'''. OMG! I howled over that one.




Okay, back to read some more. That's sure-fire cure for dry-eye syndrome.

[Hathor]

But panning GOOD NIGHT MOON? Is nothing sacred?

[James D. Macdonald]

Is nothing sacred?

Makes me think of a bunch of people bowing down before a large statue of the number Zero. A couple of onlookers: One saying to the other, "Is nothing sacred?"

[Blue Sky]

Lean Mean Thirteen was a breezy read. I laughed aloud a few times. She got me.

Fun for me was finding A Working of Stars on my way out of the used bookstore. Thought for sure I'd have to order that one online.

[James D. Macdonald]

In today's episode of Stranger Than Fiction.... (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/crazy-us-cop-pulls-gun-on-gordon-ramsay-days-after-his-dwarf-porn-double-dies/story-e6freuy9-1226138841710)

[Ton Lew Lepsnaci]

Makes me think of a bunch of people bowing down before a large statue of the number Zero. A couple of onlookers: One saying to the other, "Is nothing sacred?"

So the other comes back, "Dunno, I always thought you were the one and only."

To which one replies: "Upstart, eating its own tail."

At which point the other unwinds a double loop and stretches from infinity to one, then connects to zero. "In the end it all matters or nothing matters."

[Grunkins]

I can type 80ish words per minute, but I can't write 80 words per minute. In today's two hour BIC time I pumped out about 750 words and was pleased with it.

Quick update, I am comfortably writing 1000 words per hour of new prose.
Moral: doing it makes you better.

[HapiSofi]

I've almost always used "Different Header First Page" or "No Header First Page," whatever my word processor at the time offers, so that the author/title/pagenumber slug begins on page 2.
A different format on the first page is manageable. What makes me crazy is when there's a different header for every chapter, especially when they're short chapters.

[James D. Macdonald]

You want it, you got it!

The novel will be Lean Mean Thirteen by Janet Evanovich (selected at random). I haven't read it myself; I'll be reading it along with you. It's available in hardcover (should be in many libraries), paperback, and e-text.

We'll discuss the last chapter one month from today: 08 February 2012.

Still time to go get this book and read it. It's short....

[Scribhneoir]

Still time to go get this book and read it. It's short....

Coincidentally, I worked my way through all the Stephanie Plum books throughout November and December. I'm ready!

[James D. Macdonald]

SPOILERS

Okay, let's talk about the last chapter of Lean Mean Thirteen. This is an entry in a long-running series involving a female bounty hunter in Trenton, New Jersey.

Chapter Eighteen is the last. It begins:

Grandma Mazur had Blackie under her arm when she opened the door.

"What are you doing with Blackie?" I asked her.

"I've been trying to find just the right place to set him out. I want him to look natural."

At the risk of being unkind, Blackie would need to be in Frankenstein's lab to look natural.
[INDENT]

What's going on here is winding up two of the plot arcs. The genre here is comedy/drama with a romance element. First person, past tense narrator.

The plot arcs are the comedy taxidermist (one of the persons that our narrator wanted to catch for skipping bail), and the nymphomaniac grandmother. These are minor arcs. The grandmother is a continuing character, but the taxidermist, I believe, first appeared in this book and will vanish from subsequent books.

[INDENT]
"I have Morelli's laundry. I thought i'd throw it in the washer, and then I have to get back to Morelli," I told Grandma.

"Blackie and me will take care of it for you. We haven't got anything better to do."

I left the laundry with Grandma and ran back to Morelli's SUV. I thought maybe Lula was right and I didn't do much for Morelli. It wouldn't kill me to pitch in and clean his house today. It was only a matter of time before my life would be back to normal, although I was beginning to think weird might be normal for me. The police would get the car and the clock and the money. They'd find Petiak and lock him up. And I wasn't sure what would happen to Dickie.

Morelli's house was less than a quarter of a mile from my parents' house. I drove two blocks and was T-boned by a Hummer coming out of an alley that ran behind a row of houses. The impact rammed me into a parked car and left me breathless. Before I had a chance to collect myself, my door was wrenched open, and I was yanked from behind the wheel. It was Dave with a broken nose, bandaged fingers, and a brace on his knee.

"Haw," Dave said, jamming the barrel of a gun into my ribs "We figured you'd come to see your mom. We've been waiting for you."


That takes us to the first scene break.

We're winding down the romantic sub-plot (narrator/Morelli). We're winding down the mystery plot: car/clock/money. We're winding down the major villain plot: Petiak. We're winding down the minor continuing comedy-villain: Dickie.

The scene ends with sudden violence, and the unexpected appearance of the bumbling comedy-henchman: Dave. (Unexpected because, with all the injuries he's sustained, he should be in a hospital somewhere.) The subplots, which appeared to be winding down, are now all back in play.

This also takes us through the second page of the last chapter. The chapter has fifteen pages in the edition I'm using; 14%. We've just been told that none of the subplots are actually winding down. Instead, they're going to be brought back into play with some kind of twist: "weird."

[James D. Macdonald]

The next scene is likewise about two pages long.

Our first-person narrator is taken by bumbling-and-beaten Dave to see the until-now unseen Chief Villain, Petiak.

Petiak had been discussed quite a bit, but now we're finally meeting him. The location of this meeting as also been described, but now we're seeing it for the first time. Petiak displays his favorite murder weapon: a flamethrower. Again, we've heard quite a bit about it, but this is the first time it appears for our narrator to see and describe it.

The villain threatens to kill the heroine, if she doesn't give him the key which will allow him to get $40 million. She doesn't have it, but knows where it is.

After the mild comedy of the first scene, this scene is quite a bit darker. The tension is racked up a lot.

[James D. Macdonald]

Anyone want to chime in, before I get to the third section?

[Blue Sky]

I'm loving this Jim. This is how I wanted to see it last time.

Lot's going on with me right now--including write now--but just the same, I couldn't think of what to write on the second section. There is so much going on in relation with the rest of the book. Well, I suppose everything in a well-written final chapter.

Hopefully tomorrow more time for participation. Thanks for doing this.

[Blue Sky]

Okay, back in fact.

The salvage yard climax scene starts as Plum and her abductors deal with the locked gate. Petiak orders Dave's partner Rudy to check the obviously locked and razor-wired gate twice. They need bolt cutters, so Petiak asks Plum if she knows where there's a Home Depot. Huh? Ha!

Petiak's obvious angry stupidity and the everyday trip to Home Depot ease the tension. Portraying everybody involved as life's pawns varying in degrees of asinine stupidity brings the reader in with the memories of their own silly behavior in life. We've all done silly things. This also eases the tension. Although we know the series continues, this ending displays the series main arc of a haphazard female bounty hunter risking her life that could end. She could die. Too many readers to satisfy and money to be made by continuing the series. Theoretically, however, she could die, easily felt if the reader--our silent partner--allows him or herself to let go and enjoy.

But wait. Home Depot is out of bolt cutters. More everyday life foibles and frustrations, bringing us in without commitment--we are smarter than these folks, after all. Plum volunteers that she knows where a Lowe's is located, which will buy time for Ranger and all the good guys ready to charge in thanks to her pen gps beacon. Tension eases, especially when Lowe's is out of bolt cutters as well.

Impatient Petiak orders a return to the salvage yard. Plum wants the hostage situation resolved not first to save her life, but because she has to pee. More humor balancing dark drama. They stop in front of the locked gate. Tension up once again, but mitigated by Ranger's proven ability to rescue Plum seemingly from out of nowhere, a recurring story and series romantic arc.

The wild card is Petiak's proven homicidal insanity, unpredictability and love of flamethrowers, which creates steady tension beneath the silliness.

One comment overall. The author has an easy, smooth way with comedy. Her use of simple repetition in the cable company scenes got me laughing pretty hard. "Those fuckers." Ha!

[James D. Macdonald]

A good summary of the third, and longest, section of the final chapter. The mysterious, and darkly threatening, villain is revealed to be an incompetent schlub. His death (brought about by his own actions rather than anything Stephanie does or doesn't do) takes place off-stage.

That ties off the major arc of the story. Although it takes place over a longer period of time than any other action in this chapter, and although it involves a great deal of geographic diversity, it's presented all as one scene -- one long tracking shot, in film terms, like the long tracking shot at the end of the Emma Thompson/Kenneth Branagh Much Ado About Nothing -- with little bumps of tension and release along the way.

Which brings us to the fourth and last scene. Around two pages. We get a brief tie-up of the remaining loose ends. The key to the money is gone. Dickie remains as a continuing comedy bad guy. Ranger and Morelli remain as possible romantic-attachments for Stephanie. While Morelli is on top (so to speak) at the moment, a plot hook/cliffhanger is left lying there (on the floor): A pair of Stephanie's panties with Ranger's name embroidered on them.

And that's the end of the book.

The plot-lines introduced in this volume are solved in this volume. The plot-lines left over from the previous volume remain unresolved (although they have come to a natural equilibrium).

It's light comedy/romance/drama. The plot is the classic One-Darned-Thing-After-Another plot. The baseline effect is speed. Humor replaces realism: Stephanie and Dave take injuries that would put Wile E. Coyote in the hospital for a month without giving either of them anything worse than a limp. The entire adventure takes place over a period of days, rather than weeks.

So, based on this last chapter, would you pick up the next book?

[cbenoi1]

One line in that last chapter which sums up the whole series:

"Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good," Ranger said.

-cb

[allenparker]

So, based on this last chapter, would you pick up the next book?


As my wife, An avid Evonovich reader says, "It's not whether or not you will read the next book. It's about why you read it."

I agree. The book ended with a subtle cliff hanger that is leaving you wanting more of her story. She has a way of leaving you complete in the story, but with enough questions to want to know what else will happen.

So, if you can teach us how to do this in one easy lesson...

[Blue Sky]

Yes Jim, would you mind teaching us that?

I'd like to read the first book to see how it started. Mystery not my thing though, with a lot of other books I'd like to read waiting.

The main thing for me as a reader and aspiring author is that she kept me entertained and laughing in a genre I've only read occasionally. I'd like to investigate that.

[James D. Macdonald]

This particular book seemed to follow the roller-coaster plan. The big hill at the start, then a bunch of smaller hills and twists, then the ending being a set of smaller hills -- just bumps, really -- before gliding into the station, ready to take you around again.

It's as valid a model as the one where you're climbing a mountain and plant your flag on the summit in the last chapter.

You couldn't ask for a better example, though, of the adage that your first page sells this book, your last page sells the next book, and what you need in between is a reason for the readers to keep turning each page in turn.

[James D. Macdonald]

Experience the author brings to the table...

Many years ago there was a men's action adventure series about mercenaries in Africa. It was gritty. It was tough. It had sex. Things were going well enough ...

Then the publisher started getting letters. One from Africa, and it went roughly, "Mikey: Thought you were dead. Now we know you aren't we're going to find you, mate." Another was from a solicitor in London: "We believe that [author] is the father of our client's minor child...." And so on.

The editors were ... bemused.

The author was thrilled, because the author was really a pseudonym for a pair of little-old-lady librarians in upper New York State who had never been within a thousand miles of Africa (or London), didn't know any mercenaries, had never served in the military. All they knew how to do was research, and write cracking yarns.

[James D. Macdonald]

Off to Boskone. See you there! (http://www.nesfa.org/boskone/zzzjamesdmacdonald.html)

[FOTSGreg]

Have fun, Uncle Jim. Wish I could be there.

[memoriadeclarativa]

Have you ever kept a diary?

If yes, does keeping one contribute to your storytelling?
If no, does keeping one contribute to your storytelling?

[James D. Macdonald]

No, I've never kept a diary.

But ... everything you do contributes to storytelling. Particularly if it involves telling stories.

[James D. Macdonald]

Tiny little brag: Four of this year's Nebula nominees are Viable Paradise graduates.

[allenparker]

Tiny little brag: Four of this year's Nebula nominees are Viable Paradise graduates.


Goes to show what metal you and the others are made from...

Congrats. I'm jealous, but in a creative way.

[Hathor]

I've read all the archives here and tried to make Uncle Jim proud. The book is about to be cast before agents. I think the last time here I mentioned my work (long time ago) I was worried about it being too short. Somehow it became a trilogy. First book can stand alone, fortunately.

My query's over at QLH now. You'll see my protagonist is a Macdonald. Naturally, the antagonists are Campbells. For those of you who don't get this, google "Glencoe Massacre."

I'm not a Macdonald, but my clan got screwed over by the Bloody Campbells, too. Their name means "twisted mouth" in Gaelic, by the way.

[James D. Macdonald]

First posted elsewhere, but I thought I'd bring it here:
Yeah, I'm aware that paid-for reviews exist, like I'm aware that paid-for sex exists. You want, I can show you a place where you can get a five-star review, from a "Real Name" account with an "Amazon-Verified Purchase," for five bucks.

But you know something? I can also show you where to get a blowjob for five bucks.

Don't mistake it for love, though, and don't think in a million years that anyone who sees you with the hooker will think that it's love.

[James D. Macdonald]

Best query letter evah. (http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/st-martin%E2%80%99s-press-mystery-marijuana-who-is-karen-wright_b48833#more-48833)

[vrabinec]

Having dated Mary Jane, a cousing of Karen's, for many years, I fail to see the humor. Now my mary Jane will just cost more because of supply issues. :)

[vrabinec]

Tiny little brag: Four of this year's Nebula nominees are Viable Paradise graduates.

You guys are getting some good reviews from bloggers, too. This guy has a decent following among authors.

http://elflands2ndcousin.com/2012/03/06/reflections-on-the-workshop-experience-viable-paradise/

[James D. Macdonald]

You guys are getting some good reviews from bloggers, too. This guy has a decent following among authors.

http://elflands2ndcousin.com/2012/03/06/reflections-on-the-workshop-experience-viable-paradise/


I hadn't seen that... thanks. Here's another:

http://www.jasontoomey.com/stonetower/2010/10/vp-14-final-update-wrapping-it-all-up.html (http://www.jasontoomey.com/stonetower/2010/10/vp-14-final-update-wrapping-it-all-up.html)

[Grunkins]

I'm 5-10 thousand words away from THE END on the first draft of my WIP. Is it best to let the MS cool before I dive in and begin the revision process knowing that I'll need at a couple full rewrites, or is it best to revise, rewrite and when it's closer to its final state let it cool?

[James D. Macdonald]

Is it best to let the MS cool before I dive in and begin the revision process knowing that I'll need at a couple full rewrites, or is it best to revise, rewrite and when it's closer to its final state let it cool?

The answer to that will depend on the author -- on you, and what works for you.

For me, it's best to let the story age for a while, while writing something new, but I've come to that realization about myself over the years. I started out revising as soon as I hit The End--and for some writers that works really well. (And you're going to have to do that if you're pressing the deadline.)

So, best is highly subjective.

Same for the number of revisions you do.

My best advice, though, right now, is to let it sit. The parts of the story that are "head story" (they're in the author's head, not on the page) will slough away in the interim if you put it aside and work on something else for a bit.

[LillyPu]

I've written a novel in 1st person, present tense, where the narrator dies in the end. Then I wrote the epilogue in another supporting character's 1st person, present tense relating the events after the main character croaked, because I couldn't let the end happen when the end happened to the main narrator. :)

I've had a reader tell me I should set some sort of artifice in place--how could the story be told? she said. Will I run into problems with my epilogue being believable? My whole novel? I've had a lot of beta readers who've never questioned my epilogue.

I hope I've made enough sense here explaining it.

[James D. Macdonald]

I've written a novel in 1st person, present tense, where the narrator dies in the end. Then I wrote the epilogue in another supporting character's 1st person, present tense relating the events after the main character croaked, because I couldn't let the end happen when the end happened to the main narrator.

It's been done well.

For example, The Sorrows of Young Werther by Goethe. Or All Quiet on the Western Front, where the story continues a bit in past tense from an omniscient narrator after the first-person-present-tense protagonist dies.

If you do it well enough, you can do it too.

[LillyPu]

Thank you! I've had All Quiet on the Western Front referred to me before, but then forgot all about it. Now I better make it a point to read it.

But I'm really excited about The Sorrows of Young Werther. I hope my library has it. I'm planning an epistolary novel next with letters, diaries and newsclippings, so it'll come in really handy reading Sorrows. For both my novels.

Thanks again for taking the time to recommend those two great books. I think my novel will benefit.

[James D. Macdonald]

Speaking of epistolary novels, there's Dracula, and our own Land of Mist and Snow (http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/mistsnowhead.htm).

[Lee HH Cope]

Hello everybody and especially Uncle Jim. I have read a few of these posts and love some of the creative content that has been put together.

Which makes wonder what you all think of this line from my book:

The Perennial-City had long withstood the crossings of time as a bastion of hope for both kith and kin alike, but those days shall come no more as each pale stone teeters upon the edges of their doom. Such polished towers of pale white with yawning archways that spewed forth each winding stairwell had seen much joy and sorrow throughout the days of Avian reign. Though those days have long since passed, and much alike the driven rains upon the meandering streams, such days were as raindrops of wonder that did once exist, but are washed away in such a hurry that they return to us the same nevermore.

I hope you like it...

[HoneyBadger]

Welp.

[zanzjan]

Which makes wonder what you all think of this line from my book:

The Perennial-City had long withstood the crossings of time as a bastion of hope for both kith and kin alike, but those days shall come no more as each pale stone teeters upon the edges of their doom. Such polished towers of pale white with yawning archways that spewed forth each winding stairwell had seen much joy and sorrow throughout the days of Avian reign. Though those days have long since passed, and much alike the driven rains upon the meandering streams, such days were as raindrops of wonder that did once exist, but are washed away in such a hurry that they return to us the same nevermore.

Welcome to AW!

Your best bet for constructive feedback is to get up to your 50 post mark and then post over in SYW ("Show Your Work")

That said, although there's some intriguing hints about your world here, this is a bit too densely florid for my own tastes. There's a sense here about being present for a lecture about the setting, rather than actually being *in* the setting as a reader, and although that can be used quite effectively as a technique, if that's the effect you want you may need some hints very soon about who is telling us this, and how they connect to us, to cement for the reader the sense that they are hearing a story inside the story. As the opening of a novel, you may want to try to work some of the background into (Avian reign, etc. -- anything not immediately pertinent to pulling in the reader) into the narrative itself as the actual story unfolds. If this is the opening of a short, you would really need to grab the reader much more quickly. (Short story markets, and readers, are impatient and more than a little ruthless.)

I very much like the "raindrops of wonder" line. Excellent imagery.

My own $.02 of course, and I could always be entirely wrong.

[Silver-Midnight]

Hi.

I've recently started writing in a new genre. I really want to write short stories or novelettes, at least starting out. One, because writing in that length is what I'm used to, and Two, I'm still trying to "get the feel" of the genre. Don't get me wrong; I do like it. However, I think I would understand it better if I could write short stories or novelettes for it at first.

There's just one small problem. The genre that I'm writing--Urban Fantasy--is more popular as novels or novellas than as lengths I want to write. Plus someone mentioned that market is really only beneficiary to authors who already have a name for themselves in that genre. But part of me still wants to try it. Another person did suggest that I just submit my stories to Fantasy markets, unless they strictly say "no Urban Fantasy".

I am working on something right now that I plan to fall in the novella range. But I still would like to try at short story/novelette range. I'd just feel more comfortable doing it that way, and seeing even this is a genre I really want to try to write in.

Would it be beneficial to do that despite the fact that most other work in the genre is in the novella and novel range?

Also do you have any advice for writing Fantasy short stories and novelettes? I know that Urban Fantasy probably doesn't have as much world-building as other sub-genres as Fantasy. However, that sometimes gives me trouble when I'm writing(or trying to).

[James D. Macdonald]

There's just one small problem. The genre that I'm writing--Urban Fantasy--is more popular as novels or novellas than as lengths I want to write. Plus someone mentioned that market is really only beneficiary to authors who already have a name for themselves in that genre. But part of me still wants to try it.


If you need my permission to write a short story, I grant it to you. An excellent story makes its own market, regardless of genre.

Just make sure your story is excellent.

Which I'm sure it will be.

Write it, polish it, then send it out 'til Hell won't have it.


Also do you have any advice for writing Fantasy short stories and novelettes? I know that Urban Fantasy probably doesn't have as much world-building as other sub-genres as Fantasy. However, that sometimes gives me trouble when I'm writing(or trying to).Short stories don't have a lot of room for world-building. So don't build worlds. Write the story as if everyone already knew what was what. Readers will receive their information from the way your characters act and react.

If you need a challenge:

It's 1971, late in Nixon's first term. Maud is at work when she suddenly goes into diabetic shock. She needs sugar. Unfortunately, elves have stolen all the sugar in the employee cafeteria -- again. Trace Fred, her co-worker's, efforts to get help for Maud.

Do it in around 5,000 words.

Deadline is Wednesday.

Hello everybody and especially Uncle Jim. I have read a few of these posts and love some of the creative content that has been put together.


Hi, Lee.

I think I see what you're trying to do there.

Two things you can do:

1) Read it out loud, making a red check-mark in the margin every time you stumble whilst reading it.

2) Get a copy of The King of Elfland's Daughter by Lord Dunsany, and go through it marking a) every modifier, and b) every punctuation mark. (That's to help you think about both.)

3) Dropping over to Share Your Work after you've been active on the board for a while isn't a bad plan either.

[James D. Macdonald]

A story from yet another Viable Paradise graduate: http://strangehorizons.com/2012/20120312/dignity-f.shtml

[Lee HH Cope]

Welcome to AW!

Your best bet for constructive feedback is to get up to your 50 post mark and then post over in SYW ("Show Your Work")

That said, although there's some intriguing hints about your world here, this is a bit too densely florid for my own tastes. There's a sense here about being present for a lecture about the setting, rather than actually being *in* the setting as a reader, and although that can be used quite effectively as a technique, if that's the effect you want you may need some hints very soon about who is telling us this, and how they connect to us, to cement for the reader the sense that they are hearing a story inside the story. As the opening of a novel, you may want to try to work some of the background into (Avian reign, etc. -- anything not immediately pertinent to pulling in the reader) into the narrative itself as the actual story unfolds. If this is the opening of a short, you would really need to grab the reader much more quickly. (Short story markets, and readers, are impatient and more than a little ruthless.)

I very much like the "raindrops of wonder" line. Excellent imagery.

My own $.02 of course, and I could always be entirely wrong.

Hi zanzjan, Many thanks for the comments and the advice, it is always very much appreciated. The paragraph I chose was from my 15th chapter of the TOTEK, so was just a taster of what I have written thus far.

I rearly liked the way the words came into being and painted the image that every day is just like the falling rain upon the water, because very much akin to raindrops they are what they and nothing more; but they never return to us the same.

[zanzjan]

Hi zanzjan, Many thanks for the comments and the advice, it is always very much appreciated. The paragraph I chose was from my 15th chapter of the TOTEK, so was just a taster of what I have written thus far.

Ah. It's very hard to give meaningful advice on a piece w/o context, particularly if it's not the opening. Good luck with your novel!

[Silver-Midnight]

If you need my permission to write a short story, I grant it to you. An excellent story makes its own market, regardless of genre.

Just make sure your story is excellent.

Which I'm sure it will be.

Write it, polish it, then send it out 'til Hell won't have it.


Short stories don't have a lot of room for world-building. So don't build worlds. Write the story as if everyone already knew what was what. Readers will receive their information from the way your characters act and react.

If you need a challenge:

It's 1971, late in Nixon's first term. Maud is at work when she suddenly goes into diabetic shock. She needs sugar. Unfortunately, elves have stolen all the sugar in the employee cafeteria -- again. Trace Fred, her co-worker's, efforts to get help for Maud.

Do it in around 5,000 words.

Deadline is Wednesday.

Thanks for the advice!

[LillyPu]

Speaking of epistolary novels, there's Dracula, and our own Land of Mist and Snow (http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/mistsnowhead.htm).
Will do! I've never read an alternate history novel before. The opening makes me want to read more... Thanks for the recommendation.

[MVK]

I've just started writing after a lifetime of reading. It's a lot harder than it looks. There's this inertia that I have to overcome every time I start to write. It gives me a new perspective for every time I think "I could write a better book than that."

[James D. Macdonald]

Elsewhere at AW (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241414), I posted:

That's what gives me the feel of a children's book. A lot of these "rules" make these crazy blanket statements. We are writing words on paper, not giving someone CPR. Nobody is gonna die if we end a sentence in a preposition. (Well, there was that time in '72, but that'll surely never happen again.)


"Don't end a sentence with a preposition" is not now and never has been a rule in English. A bunch of 17th century grammarians, who thought that Latin is the perfect language and therefore English should follow Latin's rules (where a "preposition" quite literally cannot end a sentence because it's a pre-position), tried to impose it. It's been over three hundred years now, and their attempt has definitively failed.

As far as said: You get the My First Reader effect if you end every line of dialog with a tag. Doesn't matter what the tag is.

The purpose of tags is to keep the reader from losing track of who's talking, or to add information that the reader can't pick up from the dialog or action.

You're writing a story, not a stage play. You don't need to give stage directions.

James M. Cain (a master stylist) ran five pages of dialog among three different people with no tags at all in The Postman Always Rings Twice.

When you do use tags, words other than said are a spice. Enough makes the stew tastier. Too much makes it inedible.

When using words other than said, do try to use verbs that describe how dialog can be delivered. Screeched or whispered, okay. Grinned or skated, not so okay.

[Jaegur]

First off, I just have to say 'Wow'. I found this site a few days ago, and since yesterday afternoon when I saw someone mention 'Learn to Write With Uncle Jim' I haven't read anything else, other than the first chapter to 'The Apocalypse Door'. I just wanted to thank you so far for the information I've gleaned from your thread!

Even though I'm only on page 3 of 389 in the FIRST thread. So far however, you've talked me into scrapping my idea of writing a new first chapter and just using my second chapter as my first. Though, the action doesn't really even happen in that chapter.

May I borrow you for a few months? I have a spare couch that you may only have to share with my wife's cats once in a while.

[James D. Macdonald]

Even though I'm only on page 3 of 389 in the FIRST thread. So far however, you've talked me into scrapping my idea of writing a new first chapter and just using my second chapter as my first. Though, the action doesn't really even happen in that chapter.


Just write through to "The End." You'll discover later what the first chapter is.

It gives me a new perspective for every time I think "I could write a better book than that."

Many have. You can too. Sit down and write. The Muse doesn't visit when you aren't at your keyboard. Give me 500 words before you come back. Then do another 500 words tomorrow. In six months you'll have a novel-length pile of pages. It may be tripe, but you can't edit a blank page.


--------------

Meanwhile....

From Uncle Jim's Mailbag:

Dear Uncle Jim,
What's the difference between third-person omniscient and head-hopping?Confused Scribe in San Francisco


Dear Confused:
None. It's called head-hopping when you do it badly.Uncle Jim

[euclid]

Get a copy of The King of Elfland's Daughter by Lord Dunsany, and go through it marking a) every modifier, and b) every punctuation mark. (That's to help you think about both.)


Hi Jim, Why did you recommend this story? Was it because Dunsany was a master of modifiers and punctuation or because he sucked at these?

Is the story a good read? I tried a book of shorts by him recently and thought it was dreadful. Put me right off him.

[James D. Macdonald]

Hi Jim, Why did you recommend this story? Was it because Dunsany was a master of modifiers and punctuation or because he sucked at these?


Dunsany is absolutely a master of modifiers and punctuation (and archaic word-choices).

It struck me, based on the small sample, that Dunsany would be a good choice of folks whose style would bear study.

[Silver-Midnight]

Many have. You can too. Sit down and write. The Muse doesn't visit when you aren't at your keyboard. Give me 500 words before you come back. Then do another 500 words tomorrow. In six months you'll have a novel-length pile of pages. It may be tripe, but you can't edit a blank page.

So, unless you're trying to meet a deadline, it doesn't matter how much you write a day. However, you should get in the habit of writing everyday, right?

[allenparker]

So, unless you're trying to meet a deadline, it doesn't matter how much you write a day. However, you should get in the habit of writing everyday, right?

I may be wrong, but I think the 500 word day is to put into perspective the writing process as a bunch of small, obtainable goals as opposed to a 80,000 word afternoon no one could master.

As a person who suffers from a mild form of ADD, I find smaller goals... Oh look a humming bird by my window. I wonder why no one ever cleans these windows? I could get a ladder, but then cleaning the garage is so tedious... It would be easier if the garage just burnt down and I bought all new.

Anyone know why we are talking about a fire department sex scandal in a writing forum. geez, y'all get so far afield here.

[James D. Macdonald]

However, you should get in the habit of writing everyday, right?

That's about the size of it.

[Silver-Midnight]

I may be wrong, but I think the 500 word day is to put into perspective the writing process as a bunch of small, obtainable goals as opposed to a 80,000 word afternoon no one could master.

That makes sense. I just thought that might've actually been the right amount of time. :tongue I'm still trying to figure out what works me, doing timed exercises or setting a word count goal for myself for the entire day. So, I'm trying each a little bit. The only reason why I'm doing it like that is because I know, mostly due to my schedule, I can't always spend a lot of time doing free-writing, and I have to benefit from the amounts of time that I do have.



That's about the size of it.

Okay.



I have another quick little question. A publisher is having an anthology that I want to try to submit something to. There's only one, somewhat small problem. The deadline is 20th of April. Usually, I just pass if the deadline is that close. However, this is a regular occurrence for me. I'll find a line/anthology I want to submit to, but the deadline is really, really close. However, I still want to try. I was going to try to do about about 357 words a day if I could. I got that number by taking the minimum amount of word count needed for the anthology(5,000 words) and divided by 14 days(2 weeks). The bad thing is that typically when I try the "I'm going to write X amount of words a day thing" it doesn't work out for me. It might the first two or three times, but after that, nope. What would you suggest I do in this situation(and ones similar to it) where I fairly close deadline like this? Are there any other tactics I can use to meet deadlines?

[Jake Barnes]

Elsewhere at AW (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241414), I posted:




"Don't end a sentence with a preposition" is not now and never has been a rule in English. A bunch of 17th century grammarians, who thought that Latin is the perfect language and therefore English should follow Latin's rules (where a "preposition" quite literally cannot end a sentence because it's a pre-position), tried to impose it. It's been over three hundred years now, and their attempt has definitively failed.

As far as said: You get the My First Reader effect if you end every line of dialog with a tag. Doesn't matter what the tag is.

The purpose of tags is to keep the reader from losing track of who's talking, or to add information that the reader can't pick up from the dialog or action.

You're writing a story, not a stage play. You don't need to give stage directions.

James M. Cain (a master stylist) ran five pages of dialog among three different people with no tags at all in The Postman Always Rings Twice.

When you do use tags, words other than said are a spice. Enough makes the stew tastier. Too much makes it inedible.

When using words other than said, do try to use verbs that describe how dialog can be delivered. Screeched or whispered, okay. Grinned or skated, not so okay.

In the latest Jake Reacher novel there was a page of dialogue with an attribution accompanying each bit of dialogue. The next page was a page of dialogue without a single attribution. I can only think Lee Child was trying to vary the rythym of the dialogue (I always work on the assumption that published writers do what they do for a good reason).

[James D. Macdonald]

What would you suggest I do in this situation(and ones similar to it) where I'm fairly close deadline like this? Are there any other tactics I can use to meet deadlines?


Just grit your teeth, sit down, and write. Even if you aren't inspired. Even if what you're writing is crud. Just do it.

(When you're making your schedules, don't forget to schedule in editing/revising time.)

You can write a 5,000 word story in somewhere between three and four days, without breaking a sweat. Sit down and do it. Make your fingers move.

If you need permission to write badly, just ask. I have a certificate I can give you.

[Silver-Midnight]

Just grit your teeth, sit down, and write. Even if you aren't inspired. Even if what you're writing is crud. Just do it.

(When you're making your schedules, don't forget to schedule in editing/revising time.)

You can write a 5,000 word story in somewhere between three and four days, without breaking a sweat. Sit down and do it. Make your fingers move.

If you need permission to write badly, just ask. I have a certificate I can give you.
Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.

[James D. Macdonald]

Let me know when you finish your story and when you send it out.

[Silver-Midnight]

Let me know when you finish your story and when you send it out.

I will. I just I hope I make it.

[James D. Macdonald]

I will. I just I hope I make it.

You will. I have faith.

Now get off the friggin' Internet and write.

[Silver-Midnight]

You will. I have faith.

Now get off the friggin' Internet and write.

Right now, you probably have more than me. :ROFL: It's going slightly well; I'm at 3K. I'm trying to hurry up and finish it because I want to rewrite the beginning of it; it is just not working out for me there. So, I skipped toward the end of it. So, excluding the rewrite/edit of the beginning, I only have about 2 - 3K more to go, and I'm finished with it.

Thanks for all of the help. I truly appreciate it.

[MVK]

Thanks for all the advice. The only down side to it is the temptation to just keep reading the threads instead of writing.

The writing is going slowly, 3,100 words in 8 days. And the discovery that even for a short story I need a bit of an outline for when I get stuck going from point C to D. I'm learning one mistake at a time.

Is it worth submitting for Viable Paradise for a beginning writer?

[James D. Macdonald]

Is it worth submitting for Viable Paradise for a beginning writer?

Depends on what you mean by "beginning." Look around for blog entries by alumnae to get a feeling of what it's all about and compare that to where you are.

And the discovery that even for a short story I need a bit of an outline for when I get stuck going from point C to D.

Try the Lester Dent master plot outline.

[Silver-Midnight]

I have another really quick question. The anthology that I want to submit to has a deadline of April 20th. When dealing with deadlines, do they still take submissions on the day of the deadline, or do they stop taking them at 11:59PM on the previous day? For example, using this deadline, would I be able to send in my submission on 20th, which is next Friday, or would I have to submit it in by the 19th by 11:59PM, which is Thursday? Does it depend on the publisher?

I asked because if I finish up my short story either today or Friday, that gives me an entire week almost to edit and refine it then send it in, provided they accept on 20th. However, if it has to be in by next Thursday, then I'll have to submit it in Saturday or Sunday. The reason why I can't submit during the week(Thursday and earlier) is because I'm away at college during the week but back home on the weekends. I do still have internet access and all but yeah.

[James D. Macdonald]

I expect it varies with the market. But why risk it? Mail the sub off so the story is in their mailbox no later than the 20th.

Why not take along a nice stamped, addressed envelope with you to college? Does your school have a computing center where you can get it printed out?

Or, do you have a trusted friend to whom you can e-mail the story, have them print it out and mail it?

(I presume your market doesn't take electronic submissions....)

[HoneyBadger]

Dear Uncle Jim,

(I've read aaaaall your threads, and just did a search and didn't see anything like this question, but feel free to redirect me if I missed something.)

Do you have any tips for someone, who may or may not be me, who a) only started learning about writing fiction 3 months ago when one started writing one's (now complete and querying with good results novel), b) is a very fast and *very* willing learner, and c) wants to learn more about the craft, specifically in regards to finding a good workshop or creative writing course?

Like, not Mechanics 101, but something... meatier? What sorts of things should one look for in a course, instructor, that would benefit a literary-leaning goofball?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

-En

[Silver-Midnight]

(I presume your market doesn't take electronic submissions....)

Actually, I think that they only take online submissions. I'm submitting to a e-Publisher. If it matters, it's Evernight Publishing.

[James D. Macdonald]

Actually, I think that they only take online submissions. I'm submitting to a e-Publisher. If it matters, it's Evernight Publishing.


Then ... what's the problem? Deadline's Friday, send it to 'em on Thursday, and you're good to go.

[James D. Macdonald]

Dear Uncle Jim,

(I've read aaaaall your threads, and just did a search and didn't see anything like this question, but feel free to redirect me if I missed something.)

Do you have any tips for someone, who may or may not be me, who a) only started learning about writing fiction 3 months ago when one started writing one's (now complete and querying with good results novel), b) is a very fast and *very* willing learner, and c) wants to learn more about the craft, specifically in regards to finding a good workshop or creative writing course?

Like, not Mechanics 101, but something... meatier? What sorts of things should one look for in a course, instructor, that would benefit a literary-leaning goofball?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

-En

Literary-leaning ... meaning, you write "literary" fiction, or what?

Anyway ... check with your local public library to see if there's a writers' group that meets near you. Some of 'em are toxic, some of 'em are wonderful, but they're worth checking out.

In workshops, writers' groups, and creative writing courses, look for people among the instructors who've been out and actually sold stuff to real paying markets.

Look for something that helps you feel good about writing, and helps you put your fingers on the keyboard.

And don't sweat it. You don't have to get your ticket punched. No one checks to see if you have a diploma. The only thing that matters at the end is the manuscript, and it sounds to me like you're doing fine.

Read a little every day, write a little every day, and you're a writer.

[HoneyBadger]

Thanks!

I hope people know how important and true your read=write advice is. One of the only reasons I *was* able to write my novel was that I'm well-read. I still don't know the names for things, but you just... you just develop an ear for it by reading, and when you learn the rules, it all makes sense, if you let it.

This novel might actually do okay, if I push through, but if it doesn't? It can hang out in the trunk while I get better. I just ("just," she says!) want to win the Orange Prize someday. That's the kind of stuff I want to write, but reading it only helps so much until I learn how and why it's written the way it is. Does that make sense?

Maybe I'll just hire Margaret Atwood to come hang out with me for a month.

Thanks again!

[SomethingOrOther]

Question for James: I've read a decent amount of this thread and I love it when you thoroughly analyze passages. I do a good amount of that too.

Could you give me a few analysis-centric exercises?

For example, "Select a short passage from a novel you've read and write about how it [insert something here]."

You decide what "[insert something here]" is.

I might be phrasing this question stupidly--I've been up for a bunch of hours, many of which were filled with strenuous writing and composing.

only started learning about writing fiction 3 months ago when one started writing one's (now complete and querying with good results novel)

My scientists have theorized that you have a second personality who commandeers your body when you think you're asleep and slinks off to the garage to read tons of instructional material. And that this has been going on for the past five years.

[HoneyBadger]

It's actually been 4 months now.

And like I said. I'm a fast study.

And thanks. (SomethingOrOther read my dumb book and it didn't make his eyes fall out. Success!)

[SomethingOrOther]

False. Your book is actually very smart. My photographers snapped this picture earlier today.

http://i.imm.io/lXTJ.png

[James D. Macdonald]

I still don't know the names for things, but you just... you just develop an ear for it by reading, and when you learn the rules, it all makes sense, if you let it.

it doesn't matter if you can't tell litotes from hyperbole as long as you can do 'em. The labels ... are good if you want to talk like an English major.



Could you give me a few analysis-centric exercises?




Shoot. You mean I haven't done enough of 'em?

Here's something better: Go, write a sonnet.

[HoneyBadger]

Thanks! Also I learned a new word for a thing I love!

The man I had known for one week held me in the street in a way that meant I couldn’t see my legs. I remember knowing that I shouldn’t look, and knowing that I would look if it wasn’t that I couldn’t. That's from Amy Hempel's Harvest; that's a litote, right?

Neat, neat, neat. Okay, thanks, Uncle Jim! Thanks very much!

Also I wrote a Shakespearean sonnet.

Alone I am yet am so near my dear,
If only my heart's wish would open up.
With angel care my lips do tremble near,
Rewarded by my longed-for loving cup.
The golden logs play hostess to my dreams,
And feed my soul with saturated fat.
From cellophane I lick up all the cream,
Plumping my hips while lapping like a cat.
Too many bites will leave me fit to burst,
There is no stopping, even if I try,
Leave one or eat them all, what would be worse?
My stomach knots, an aching windsor tie.
Twinkies, why can't you simply love me back?
You give me nothing but a heart attack.

[hlynn117]

I hope people know how important and true your read=write advice is. One of the only reasons I *was* able to write my novel was that I'm well-read.


I definitely agree, and the advice on how the publishing industry works on this board is proving invaluable to me. I found taking rhetoric courses helpful. It's a non-traditional approach (maybe?), but it helped focus my writing and worked for me. My profs challenged me to think about every word I wrote, and it improved my editing and writing skills a thousand fold. I'm currently reading Rhetorics of Fantasy by Farah Mendlesohn, and it's teaching me bundles about how to construct narratives in the genre I want to write.

[Silver-Midnight]

Then ... what's the problem? Deadline's Friday, send it to 'em on Thursday, and you're good to go.

Because I'm not sure how comfortable I feel sending a submission over my school's server even with a personal computer (laptop). :ROFL:It would probably give me more time if I could do it Thursday but I want to try to get it done as earlier as possible. (This one scene is just not working right for me right now).

[James D. Macdonald]

Because I'm not sure how comfortable I feel sending a submission over my school's server even with a personal computer (laptop)

Is there a Starbucks in town? A Barnes&Noble? A McDonald's? You can probably find a wireless hotspot.

Or, you can send it out tomorrow.

[Silver-Midnight]

Is there a Starbucks in town? A Barnes&Noble? A McDonald's? You can probably find a wireless hotspot.

Or, you can send it out tomorrow.

True. I'll figure something out. Worst case scenario, as much as I don't want to, I'll send it off from school I guess.

[OtavioCaetano]

Hi, Uncle Jim! I want to thank you for sharing your knowledge with everyone and want you to know that I'm learning things about communication and entertainement that I never realized. Your topic awake a ferocious writer who was sleeping inside me...

I didn't read everything yet, but it's a daily reading and I'm sure that everything will be re-read along the time...

And I have a question too. I'm not an american or english native speaker, I'm from Brazil. I have a curiosity, can I get into american market being a foreigner? (with a well-written english MC, obviously) I guess there's no barriers about that, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Thank you.

[James D. Macdonald]

Hey, Octavio --

There's no barrier at all to breaking into the US market as a foreign national -- provided you have a manuscript that stacks up. That is, one that surprises and delights.

Now, as to the language itself, you might want to get a native speaker of American English as a beta reader. (Vladimir Nabokov hired a native English speaker to edit his books before he submitted them; if it's good enough for Nabokov....)

[Silver-Midnight]

I don't know what to do. I finally finished writing my story. I ended up with about 8K surprisingly. However, I feel like the beginning doesn't flow as well to the end as I would like it to. But I really don't have time to do a new beginning due to all of the other stuff that I have to do, mostly school work and etc. Should I just correct for error, like grammar and spelling, send it in, and hope for the best? Or should I keep it, fix it like I want but miss the anthology?

If I just do errors, I should have enough time, but if I do more, I really don't think I will.

[James D. Macdonald]

If it's accepted by the anthology presumably it will be edited and you'll have a chance to do some revisions.

But seriously, why would you consider sending out something that isn't your best work? If it isn't right take the time to make it right. Have pride in your craft.

A story that's publishable by one is publishable by many. This isn't the only market in the world.

In any case, definitely correct any grammar-and-spelling errors before you even dream of submitting the piece.

[Silver-Midnight]

If it's accepted by the anthology presumably it will be edited and you'll have a chance to do some revisions.

But seriously, why would you consider sending out something that isn't your best work? If it isn't right take the time to make it right. Have pride in your craft.

A story that's publishable by one is publishable by many. This isn't the only market in the world.

In any case, definitely correct any grammar-and-spelling errors before you even dream of submitting the piece.

I was planning to correct it either way as far as spelling and grammar.

But like you said, I wouldn't feel comfortable putting out something that I don't feel good about. I know that there is always some nervousness and feeling of not being "good enough" when you submit something. However, even with that, I want to put out my best material. But I know some writers say even if you feel bad about it, still submit it anyway because you never know what sells. I really don't know what to do.

[James D. Macdonald]

Don't ask yourself, "Is this good?" Instead ask, "Is this the best I can make it right now?"

[allenparker]

What Jim Said!

There is never enough time to fix it right once it is gone out. There is always time to do it right the first time, even if it means missing a submission. Those not ready for prime time writings will haunt you for years.

Take it from one who knows.

[Silver-Midnight]

I should probably wait then. I mean I want to send it in, but I just keep getting this feeling that I shouldn't, provided that makes sense.

[HoneyBadger]

Everyone should write more sonnets, is what I think.

[SomethingOrOther]

Everyone should write more sonnets, is what I think.

I would have tried to write one sooner but,
yours was just too good so I did not try.
Like outdoing fighters at kicking butt,
or condors at being able to fly,
it’s just not worth wasting my cherished time.
And writing these words organized in lines,
such that the ends of them perfectly rhyme,
is harder than making Ms. Portman mines.
See that’s not even an appropriate word.
Perhaps I’m being too hard on myself,
there are some things at which I lead the herd,
like being me and not being an elf.
I hope my syllable amounts are fine,
that none of these lines have only nine.

[MVK]

Depends on what you mean by "beginning." Look around for blog entries by alumnae to get a feeling of what it's all about and compare that to where you are.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. There are plenty of blog postings on this, uniformly positive. Assessments seem to vary regarding experience level. So I'll keep working on a story for it and let the fine people at VP tell me if I'm good enough yet.

Try the Lester Dent master plot outline.

I ran into that before in Michael Moorcock (http://www.wetasphalt.com/content/how-write-book-three-days-lessons-michael-moorcock) article but didn't pay much attention at the time. Interesting stuff and it's been very helpful so far. It's surprisingly hard to find short stories by Lester Dent, given how many he must have written. Plenty of Doc Savage novels available though.

[Silver-Midnight]

Jim,

Another one of the genres I write is Romance/Women's Fiction/Erotica, and one of the main problems I have is coming up with enough conflict or problems/obstacles for my characters to go through without relying on supernatural elements. For some reason, I can't take that small kernel of initial or main conflict and break it or send it into other smaller levels of conflict. I can do this with Urban Fantasy and some Paranormal Romance, but excluding a romantic sub-plot, UF is different. In UF, most of the time, my villains or antagonists are personified. Sure, the character may go through some internal conflict but most conflict is external. For example, in order from preventing ABC from happening, we have to make sure XYZ does or doesn't happen. I don't want to say that it's easier for me, but I am able to do the "This-happens-because-this-happened" thing more than in Romance/Women's Fiction/Erotica.

I was just wondering if you have any suggestions that could help me out.

Should I try personifying an antagonist thus writing Romantic Suspense instead? I don't mind writing Romantic Suspense but I think I would find it more difficult to write, at least in my opinion.

Do you think that maybe this could be a sign that I'm either a) not ready to write a romance or b) it's just not a genre that holds interest to me in writing as it use to, as far as it being a main plot instead of a sub-plot or side-plot?(This also is said as that Urban Fantasy is more of an interest to me now, and therefore, I'm more of a Fantasy writer). I do like reading romances, women's fiction, and erotica/erotic romance (that don't carry a paranormal/fantasy main plot or sub-plot), however, I feel like I want to write in those genres, specifically romance and erotica/erotic romance because those were the first genres I read and wrote. Don't get me wrong, I do have an interest, like I said, but I don't feel it's as great as it used to be. The only reason I'm not entirely relying on this as my answer is that I had trouble forming conflict and etc. even when those were my only genres.

Do you have any advice for forming conflict, and I whether or not I should wait until I'm fully interested in the genre(romance, women's fiction, erotica, and etc. without any kind of supernatural element involved) again?

Thanks in advance.

[James D. Macdonald]

Conflicts don't need to be great, or world-shaking, or apocalyptic. All they have to be is there.

Character A: "I want to order a pizza."

Character B: "Well, what's stopping you?"

Character A: [...]


[...] is the conflict.

[Silver-Midnight]

Conflicts don't need to be great, or world-shaking, or apocalyptic. All they have to be is there.

So, does that mean I should try maybe introducing the plot maybe in the second chapter or later in the first chapter rather than right off from the start, should that I should introduce bits and pieces of it at certain times when the story first starts off, or a combination of the two? I know that conflict will come into the plot depending on the exact conflict.

It's just that I have trouble coming up with things that would prevent a couple from getting together or staying together. That is the main conflict for a lot of romance novels, and depending on the type of novel, that conflict changes. But that I think is my problem. I can kind of, sort of get them together but I don't know to how to almost or completely break them apart. Any ideas?

I typically write Interracial Romance, and unless my story is a historical or takes place in the 50's or 60's, maybe even a decade or two later, I really don't want to rely on race as the factor that keeps the couple apart. At the most, I think it should be an ad-on or contribution to the reason why they shouldn't be together, and I probably really use it if they were living in an area that wasn't as accepting as other areas of their relationship, but I really don't want that to be the reason they fight/almost break up/break up/etc.

[James D. Macdonald]

The plot should start with word one of chapter one. If it doesn't ... cut everything up to that point.

But I think we're talking past each other. Try Chapter One: Character One is out of cat food and must get some despite it being a Sunday and the stripe on her debit card getting erased when she stuck it to the refrigerator door with a magnet.

You want something that'll keep a couple apart? Try one of them getting transferred to another state. Or having to move to another state in order to find work.

There's all kinds of things that you can do.

The main thing is to have something on every page that gives the reader a reason to turn to the next page. It could be breathtakingly beautiful prose. It could be edge-of-the-seat suspense. But there has to be something.

[allenparker]

I typically write Interracial Romance, and unless my story is a historical or takes place in the 50's or 60's, maybe even a decade or two later, I really don't want to rely on race as the factor that keeps the couple apart. At the most, I think it should be an ad-on or contribution to the reason why they shouldn't be together, and I probably really use it if they were living in an area that wasn't as accepting as other areas of their relationship, but I really don't want that to be the reason they fight/almost break up/break up/etc.


Can I make a suggestion that you forget they are an Interracial couple and treat it as if it is only a single detail to their lives, like they play golf.

Break ups come from conflicts that are important to the characters. Fighting over little things first, the color of a new car or whether to get a cat or a dog. They build. Then, one decides the grass might be greener, then the other side might be greener. Before long, you have differences that can't be reconciled easily. The icing on the cake with your couple is that they have a built in fighting/hurting mechanism.

[Silver-Midnight]

Can I make a suggestion that you forget they are an Interracial couple and treat it as if it is only a single detail to their lives, like they play golf.

Break ups come from conflicts that are important to the characters. Fighting over little things first, the color of a new car or whether to get a cat or a dog. They build. Then, one decides the grass might be greener, then the other side might be greener. Before long, you have differences that can't be reconciled easily. The icing on the cake with your couple is that they have a built in fighting/hurting mechanism.

Well, the interracial part wasn't that really important in the first place, unless, like I said, it took place in a certain geographical region or time period.

Thanks. So, would having a conflict that bothers one character but they don't voice that it bothers them until a certain point be a good idea as well? Like for example, age, career path, time spent with one another, etc.

[James D. Macdonald]

Thanks. So, would having a conflict that bothers one character but they don't voice that it bothers them until a certain point be a good idea as well?

It could be, sure. You won't know if it is until you write it.

[James D. Macdonald]

I posted this elsewhere; I'll repost it here:

Okay, let's talk about pitches.

Assuming that you're somewhere in the vicinity of the right ballpark (that is, you aren't pitching Extreme Porn Splatterpunk to an editor from Fluffy Baby Bunny Stories), 100% of the time you're going to get a request to send the manuscript because ... the editor won't be able to tell how good your book is from any pitch, no matter how polished, or unpolished, it might be. So, you'll send your manuscript, and it will be placed on exactly the same slushpile as it would have gone on if you'd sent it in cold.

And that is what your pitch buys you.

Better to spend your time polishing your book than your pitch. The editor won't remember you, because you're just one of a hundred nervous, sweating writers she's seen for five or ten minutes each over the past two days. And if she does remember you? No matter. The manuscript trumps everything.

[HoneyBadger]

I posted this elsewhere; I'll repost it here:

Okay, let's talk about pitches.

Assuming that you're somewhere in the vicinity of the right ballpark (that is, you aren't pitching Extreme Porn Splatterpunk to an editor from Fluffy Baby Bunny Stories), 100% of the time you're going to get a request to send the manuscript because ... the editor won't be able to tell how good your book is from any pitch, no matter how polished, or unpolished, it might be. So, you'll send your manuscript, and it will be placed on exactly the same slushpile as it would have gone on if you'd sent it in cold.

And that is what your pitch buys you.

Better to spend your time polishing your book than your pitch. The editor won't remember you, because you're just one of a hundred nervous, sweating writers she's seen for five or ten minutes each over the past two days. And if she does remember you? No matter. The manuscript trumps everything.

To clarify, this is specifically for subbing right to publishers, not querying agents? ("Pitch" gets bandied about interchangeably with "query" on occasion.)

[James D. Macdonald]

Right. That's for the conferences that advertise "pitch sessions" with editors as their draw with aspiring authors.

These are usually in New York so there isn't a lot of travel involved for the publishing professionals, and editors show up because they get free lunches and an honorarium. Editors are as low-paid as everyone else in publishing. Really, you have no idea how tight the money is at most publishers, even the biggest.

[HConn]

I posted this elsewhere; I'll repost it here:

Okay, let's talk about pitches.

Assuming that you're somewhere in the vicinity of the right ballpark (that is, you aren't pitching Extreme Porn Splatterpunk to an editor from Fluffy Baby Bunny Stories), 100% of the time you're going to get a request to send the manuscript because ... the editor won't be able to tell how good your book is from any pitch, no matter how polished, or unpolished, it might be. So, you'll send your manuscript, and it will be placed on exactly the same slushpile as it would have gone on if you'd sent it in cold.

And that is what your pitch buys you.

Better to spend your time polishing your book than your pitch. The editor won't remember you, because you're just one of a hundred nervous, sweating writers she's seen for five or ten minutes each over the past two days. And if she does remember you? No matter. The manuscript trumps everything.

This is exactly what happened to me when I went to a pitch session in 2005. The editor I spoke with was very nice and she asked me to send the first few chapters, just like the regular slush.

All the pitch session did was give me a chance to be turned away based on something other than the book I wrote. Uncle Jim is 100% right here.

[James D. Macdonald]

Those sorts of conferences frequently either directly advertise or strongly imply that the pitch sessions are a way of circumventing the slush pile, and frequently point to the number of requested manuscripts as proof that their training in how to pitch is effective.

[FOTSGreg]

"I want to order a pizza," Michael said.

Sheila turned on him. "Well, what's stopping you?"

"You are. You've got my phone."

"So? Try taking it from me."

The look in her eye told Michael she meant it. He stood up from his chair. "I will, if you make me."

Sheila smiled, set her feet apart, holding the phone in her left hand. Her right hand balled in a fist. "Go ahead. Make my day..."

:)

[Buffysquirrel]

Michael had picked a bad day to cancel service on the landline.

[James D. Macdonald]

And see? You already have an interesting scene going.

[Silver-Midnight]

And see? You already have an interesting scene going.

Yeah. :) I think I just has some trouble coming up with conflicts or problems couples/people could face.

[Buffysquirrel]

Number one thing couples argue about: money.

[veschke]

Yeah. :) I think I just has some trouble coming up with conflicts or problems couples/people could face.

Try scanning the self-help section titles, maybe?

People who want to fight will find something to fight about, whether it's a habit of bringing home stray werewolves, a drinking problem, religious differences, or household chores. And when done well, there are few things more effective than a character on the page absolutely losing. their. !#$% all over someone.

[Hathor]

What movie to go to (who always gets to choose or have veto power). Whose parents to see on holidays. One forgets something but swears the other never mentioned it. One likes the Redskins; the other insists on wearing a Cowboys jacket. Which way the toilet paper roll is supposed to go.

Tension can build up over the craziest things. Then it can become an issue of arguing style -- arguments about arguments.

[HoneyBadger]

Reading self-help books is a great idea; The Five Languages of Love (or something like that) is neat, as it talks about the different ways people show and feel loved; if you have a woman who feels most loved (and shows her love) through sweet words, but her partner shows and feels love through touch, you get conflict.

Then there are big life things- A wants a baby, B does not. A wants to move to a new city, B wants to move to the country. A wants a puppy, B wants a kitten.

Relationships are *rife* with conflict, from the tiniest little things (A likes the toilet paper to go over the roll, B likes it to come from under) to huge, monumental things (A wants to undergo sex reassignment surgery, B is not attracted to A's desired sex; A wants to sleep with other people, B doesn't want an open relationship, etc etc etc.)

[Silver-Midnight]

All of what you all said is true. However, with any type of romance I write--whether it's the main genre or sub-genre--I have to pick a reason or conflict that is reasonably resolvable, unless I don't want the the couple to get back together/stay together. I just have to be careful of what I choose as well as when and how I start resolving the problem so that it actually makes sense. Not that those can't happen with what all what you all listed, they can, I just have to make sure I keep in mind what I'm doing.


As far as self help books, I should have a few lying around somewhere. I'm sure I can dig them out and find them.

[James D. Macdonald]

The pepperoni-vs.-anchovies-on-the-pizza conflict could get you all the way through the first chapter, and into the main conflict that develops later on. It could also neatly foreshadow the ultimate resolution.

Regardless, it can fuel the first draft, which is the starting point for the book you'll write.

[Silver-Midnight]

The pepperoni-vs.-anchovies-on-the-pizza conflict could get you all the way through the first chapter, and into the main conflict that develops later on. It could also neatly foreshadow the ultimate resolution.

Regardless, it can fuel the first draft, which is the starting point for the book you'll write.

Yeah. I think I understand. I kind of just need something to start the story off with. That conflict could really work if the couple were already together. Actually, that could work even if they just knew one another, and weren't together/back together. It could show the animosity or why they broke up, maybe? Or if they were just close and they were just joking around, the pizza incident could lead to an argument, and that's where the conflict would show itself. (Like, the guy saying that she was a better friend than a girlfriend or something along those lines).

I think might have a better idea of how to form relationship conflict(s). Like I said though, I'll just have to make sure that what happens at the climax (whatever that may be) resolves nicely, if that makes sense, even if it doesn't resolve into a HEA or HFN.

[FOTSGreg]

Uncle Jim, ayup. I was just trying to help point out that even a scene involving ordering a pizza can have conflict potential and can easily set up the opening of a story. Life's chock - full of ideas for stories if we only know how to look for them.

It's execution that takes fortitude.

[James D. Macdonald]

It's execution that takes fortitude.

Which is why writers laugh that laugh when someone comes up and says, "I have a great idea for a story! You write it and we'll split the money!"

[FOTSGreg]

Lol! I've had that happen to me several times over the last year.

:)

[HoneyBadger]

Conflict doesn't mean "something terrible that ruins everyone's lives," it just means conflict. Strife. Conflict doesn't mean you can't have a HEA or even a nice day. Right now, I am experiencing conflict: do I finish drinking my coffee because it's so delicious, or do I stop drinking coffee because it'll keep me up all night?

[FOTSGreg]

Honeybadger, right. Re: the example I wrote above there's many different ways the conflict could go - maybe this couple is breaking up, maybe this is the way they get off (they like it rough), maybe they're going to fight because the makeup sex is so great, maybe there's an undercurrent of hostility in the relationship, maybe they're brother and sister, maybe someone's just tired of someone else's cell phone use - the idea possibilities are virtually endless.

[Silver-Midnight]

Conflict doesn't mean "something terrible that ruins everyone's lives," it just means conflict. Strife. Conflict doesn't mean you can't have a HEA or even a nice day. Right now, I am experiencing conflict: do I finish drinking my coffee because it's so delicious, or do I stop drinking coffee because it'll keep me up all night?

Never thought of it like that. I didn't think of it as something terrible either depending on the story. I thought it had to lead to "major problem or issue" if anything.

[HoneyBadger]

Honeybadger, right. Re: the example I wrote above there's many different ways the conflict could go - maybe this couple is breaking up, maybe this is the way they get off (they like it rough), maybe they're going to fight because the makeup sex is so great, maybe there's an undercurrent of hostility in the relationship, maybe they're brother and sister, maybe someone's just tired of someone else's cell phone use - the idea possibilities are virtually endless.

They really are. It almost makes me want to write about relationships, which I don't like doing because blerg, feeeeeelings, though I did write a 500-word short about a misspelled personalized doormat that I like quite a bit.

[Silver-Midnight]

Honeybadger, right. Re: the example I wrote above there's many different ways the conflict could go - maybe this couple is breaking up, maybe this is the way they get off (they like it rough), maybe they're going to fight because the makeup sex is so great, maybe there's an undercurrent of hostility in the relationship, maybe they're brother and sister, maybe someone's just tired of someone else's cell phone use - the idea possibilities are virtually endless.

That's all true.

Relationships aren't so cut and dry. I think that's one thing I need to get out of my head. I mean I know that arguing is healthy and all of that. However, I think really need to just process the different ways conflict(s) could go, for example, like all of the ones listed above. Some couples like to fight just because they get a slight thrill from it; they, like above mentioned, like the make-up sex.

I mean there are endless(or mostly endless) possibilities in relationships, at least from what I'm seeing anyway.

[FOTSGreg]

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack Uncle Jim's thread, but I just couldn't resist writing a little opener based on his prompt.

Honeybadger and Silver-Midnight bring up an interesting point that we kind've danced around this month down in the Horror Hounds forum (April prompt was "moral ambiguity") and that is moral conflict in scenes and writing. Your characters are supposed to have all sorts of moral conflicts because they're supposed to act like real people. The closer to real people you can write your characters the better off your characterization is going to be.

There used to be a book called something like "Characters Make Your Novel" which was hyper-intensive on digging deep into a character and characterization. It essentially, as I recall, recommended concentrating on character to the exception of all other story elements. I remember that this was the reason I didn't care for that book much - I was very young when I read it - too much characterization, like too much anything, can ruin your story.

When I'm reading I want to experience conflict, whether of emotion, action, reaction, scene, or just plain environment. Two people sitting in a room talking to each other doesn't, necessarily, demonstrate conflict and does not, necessarily, infer tension - but what they're discussing just might generate that tension and conflict. It's how a writer executes that conflict and manages that tension and keeps the reader on an emotional roller-coaster that is a key component of storytelling in my humble opinion.

[James D. Macdonald]

I want you to know that you are all awesome writers, I love you all, and I'm looking forward to your books.

[MVK]

UJ, thanks for the exercises in the Learn Writing threads. I've been stressing over health lately and they give me something to focus on when I'm feeling to scattered be creative.

On a related note, read Red Harvest then watched Yojimbo, Fist Full of Dollars, Miller's Crossing and Last Man Standing.

Yojimbo, FFOD and LMS are all closely related. Unnamed loner badass comes into town, manipulates both sides of a crminal conflict to build tension while killing many people. Finally one side wipes out the other, Baddass with no name wipes out the surviving side and the town is left free. Or deserted in LMS's case.

Miller's Crossing was more of a revelation for me. I'd not seen it before and it's pretty close to Red Harvest. A man for mysterious reasons of his own manipulates opponents into killing each other. He doesn't do most of the killing himself. In fact, I don't recall if the Continental Op ever kills someone. In the end, the original boss of the town who lost control is back in charge.

Each movie has minor variations in plot, but Red Harvest and Miller's Crossing at their core are the most similar.

[James D. Macdonald]

I believe the Coen brothers (writers/director of Miller's Crossing) are very familiar with Red Harvest. The title of their first movie (Blood Simple) is a quote from Red Harvest. Miller's Crossing contains dialog taken directly from Red Harvest.

[Jake Barnes]

UJ, thanks for the exercises in the Learn Writing threads. I've been stressing over health lately and they give me something to focus on when I'm feeling to scattered be creative.

On a related note, read Red Harvest then watched Yojimbo, Fist Full of Dollars, Miller's Crossing and Last Man Standing.

Yojimbo, FFOD and LMS are all closely related. Unnamed loner badass comes into town, manipulates both sides of a crminal conflict to build tension while killing many people. Finally one side wipes out the other, Baddass with no name wipes out the surviving side and the town is left free. Or deserted in LMS's case.

Miller's Crossing was more of a revelation for me. I'd not seen it before and it's pretty close to Red Harvest. A man for mysterious reasons of his own manipulates opponents into killing each other. He doesn't do most of the killing himself. In fact, I don't recall if the Continental Op ever kills someone. In the end, the original boss of the town who lost control is back in charge.

Each movie has minor variations in plot, but Red Harvest and Miller's Crossing at their core are the most similar.


Kurosawa sued Leone for copyright infringement and won! Kurosawa said he made more money off of FFOD than he did Yojimbo. I always thought it took real chutzpah to sue somebody for copyright infringement when you basically stole the story in the first place.

[James D. Macdonald]

Might as well talk about where reviews on covers, and blurbs, come from in the real world. (Note: Neither the author nor the publisher pays for reviews or blurbs.)

First, let's talk about blurbs. Those are the little things like, "The best book I've read this year!" -- Some Other Author that you see on book covers.

Where they come from: While the book is in production, the publisher prints up a bunch of Advance Reading Copies (ARCs) or Uncorrected Proofs. They paper the world with these. The blurb quotes usually come from authors who are: a) The author's friends, b) Other clients of the author's agent, c) Other authors published by the same publisher. What the other author gets: An ARC. Also, the promo value of having their name on the cover of your book. No money changes hands.

If you see quotes from reviews printed on the cover of the hardback, notice that those are usually from reviews of the author's previous book.

Reviews themselves:

Remember those ARCs? This is all happening about six months before the book is due to be published. The ARCs get sent to every major reviewer. The publisher's publicity department handles this; it's at no cost to the author. So The New York Times, the Washington Post, Kirkus, Library Journal, Publishers Weekly, the Chicago Tribune, USA Today ... and anyone else who might be interested gets an advance copy. If your book deals with dog breeding, the specialized dog-breeding magazines will get ARCs. The idea is you want the reviews to hit the papers the week that the book is released. (It doesn't do any good for a review to be printed for a book that isn't available yet.) Any ARCs that are left over will get sent to book bloggers, and anyone else who wants one. Really, they send out a lot of 'em.

What happens to the reviews: If your book is a hardcover, and later gets a paperback release, the juiciest quotes go on the cover of the paperback.

If you get a really, really juicy quote, or win a major prize, the publisher might decide to reprint the dust jacket with the quote on it.

Suppose your book is a paperback original? In that case, the review quotes go on the cover of the second or subsequent printings.

Notice how much this costs the author: Zero.

Notice how much this costs the publisher: The cost of printing and mailing the ARCs (which is all budgeted when they decided to offer on the book).

[James D. Macdonald]

Small personal brag here:

The Price of the Stars (http://www.amazon.com/Price-Stars-Book-Mageworlds-ebook/dp/B005QPBDCI) as an e-book at Amazon. (Also available in all other electronic formats.)



Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #1,393 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store (http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/ref=pd_dp_ts_kstore_1))

#41 in Kindle Store (http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kstore_1_1) > Kindle eBooks (http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/154606011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kstore_1_2) > Fiction (http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/157028011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kstore_1_3) > Genre Fiction (http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/157054011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kstore_1_4) > Science Fiction (http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/158591011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kstore_1_5_last)
#56 in Books (http://www.amazon.com/best-sellers-books-Amazon/zgbs/books/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_b_2_1) > Science Fiction & Fantasy (http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/25/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_b_2_2) > Science Fiction (http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/16272/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_b_2_3_last)

[Fabor]

Small personal brag here:

The Price of the Stars (http://www.amazon.com/Price-Stars-Book-Mageworlds-ebook/dp/B005QPBDCI) as an e-book at Amazon. (Also available in all other electronic formats.)

Congratulations, also thanks for all your time. It's incredible how much time you put in here. However good my first novel might be, is due in large part to you and others on here.

[Fabor]

Small personal brag here:

The Price of the Stars (http://www.amazon.com/Price-Stars-Book-Mageworlds-ebook/dp/B005QPBDCI) as an e-book at Amazon. (Also available in all other electronic formats.)

I took a look at your book. The price that it is at, the length and the quality is an interesting combination. Why is it so cheap?

[James D. Macdonald]

It's a special promotional price.

[Dave Hardy]

I believe the Coen brothers (writers/director of Miller's Crossing) are very familiar with Red Harvest. The title of their first movie (Blood Simple) is a quote from Red Harvest. Miller's Crossing contains dialog taken directly from Red Harvest.

Miller's Crossing is similar to The Glass Key, also by Hammett (and filmed in 1942, w/ Alan Ladd & Veronica Lake) though has a rather different story.

Thanks very much for the post on blurbs and reviews. That's something I've been wondering about for a while.

[MVK]

A couple of questions, UJ.

You spoke once about 'The reader I imagine is usually a mid-twenties female in an entry-level professional job (my imagined audience sees herself in that same place'. I'm not quite getting what you mean about 'the reader you imagine'.

When doing a scene breakdown, about how many scenes should one plan for in a novel. Is there a general guideline?

[James D. Macdonald]

I'm not quite getting what you mean about 'the reader you imagine'.

The reader I imagine is the one sitting on the other side of the fire-pit, the one I'm telling the story to.


When doing a scene breakdown, about how many scenes should one plan for in a novel. Is there a general guideline?


No. You use exactly as many scenes as are necessary to tell your story in the most effective way.

[EmmersonGrant]

You gotta love the writing process. I started this novel with a character in mind: Chuck and how he discovers his abilities.
Then I started writing about the military man who worked with Chuck's grandfather and how his life during WWII was. I previously referenced this in a journal, but now I'm going to go full hog on it.

I'm currently spinning my wheels on how to write the grandfather was as a boy, travelling through the pre-WWII Europe and getting captured by the Nazis. Chuck will show up by chapter 18, maybe later.

I love that what I started writing isn't quite what I'm going to end up submitting, but dammit if it isn't taking the scenic route.

((loving the advice, Uncle Jim and folks)).

[Silver-Midnight]

Jim,

I know that I've come by and already asked a lot of questions. However, I am having a problem, and,once again, I need your advice. I already admit this was kind of my fault in a way but I really need help. I am currently working on a short story/novelette, and I'm debating what to do. I started this WIP because I was talking to an author, and she was trying to help me get something submitted to one of the publishers she publishes with. The word count minimum for her publisher is 10K. Right now, I'm at about 8K so, I'm almost there. But I have completely run out of plot/steam with it, which truthfully, I didn't have that much of in the first place; I really had very general ideas of what I wanted to do.

But I also feel like I've come to a good conclusion about maybe 1K back. So, I'm also debating taking off about that much, and just submitting it to another publisher.

I know that my own judgment comes a lot into play but I still wanted advice. What do you think I should I do? I mean I know that if I get rejected from the publisher I intended it for, I can still send to the other one. However, if I sent to the first publisher, I'll have to add some kind of extension. It's too late in the story add suspense or fantasy elements, in my opinion I would think. Well, at least if I want to wrap it up at the minimum 10K anyway. So, what advice do you have?

[James D. Macdonald]

It's too late in the story add suspense or fantasy elements, in my opinion I would think.

Which draft are you on? If it's not-yet-finished-first, then finish the draft, do your revisions, and see how long it is. You may be surprised.

Or, in the next draft you can add a sub-plot.

But, actually, my best advice would be to make your story the best it can be (and if that means chopping off the last 1,000 words, out they go), then finding a market to match the story you wrote, rather than writing a story to this one specific market.

Maybe your next story will hit 10K.

[MVK]

Thanks for the answers, UJ. I'll use that when writing tonight.

Edit: BTW, I've started the Butt In Chair approach, just writing and nothing else for two hours, and it's more than doubled my words written per day. I guess I hadn't noticed how much the distractions were taking away from my productivity.

[Silver-Midnight]

Which draft are you on? If it's not-yet-finished-first, then finish the draft, do your revisions, and see how long it is. You may be surprised.

Or, in the next draft you can add a sub-plot.

But, actually, my best advice would be to make your story the best it can be (and if that means chopping off the last 1,000 words, out they go), then finding a market to match the story you wrote, rather than writing a story to this one specific market.

Maybe your next story will hit 10K.

Well, I was able to finish the first draft, and it was 10K. I'm now working on the second draft; I may just continue it without the sub-plot because I don't think it would fit. I'm not sure if it will fit for that market or not yet. Thanks for all of the help though. I am considering doing a third draft but I'm not sure yet.

[Future Shock]

Holy crap. What an amazing thread. Thanks for all the TLC and advice.

[James D. Macdonald]

Thanks, Future Shock. What I want are a whole lot of excellent new books for me to read.

[allenparker]

Thanks, Future Shock. What I want are a whole lot of excellent new books for me to read.

Fair deal. When I write one worthy enough, I'll send it to you. Right now, I am just hoping no one realizes how trying my stuff is.

[FOTSGreg]

I'm actually way behind schedule on the 3 novels I wanted to finish this year, Uncle Jim. Only 1 short story behind though. The last month has been, um, taxing with the acquisition of a new job (tech writer), but I found out this afternoon that my boss used one of my first finished documents in a Power Point presentation to his boss so that makes me feel better.

I guess I need a swift kick in the seat of the pants in order to get back on schedule...

[EmmersonGrant]

I hit a snag about 10 days ago with my WIP.

At first it was the story of a 18-20 year old discovering a power that's been in his family for generations and how he'll use it for good or ill.
I began fleshing out the story with the military guy that captured his grandfather and father and used them to make the US an even mightier super-power.

Then I started thinking most of the story in flashbacks and dream sequences would be in the way and I could write the story from the grandfather's perspective, his capture and subsequent encounter with my MC and see if he's going to help them or hinder them.

My problem began with the introduction of the power. I didn't know if it should be slowly revealed or should I put the weird stuff front and center in the first ten pages and run with it.

I was paralyzed by doubt. Should I front-load it and hope for the best? Slowly introduce it, hint it and then show it?

I wrote and deleted 4k words. I wrote and deleted 3k words. Nothing clicked.

I took a weekend off and read a couple of books I've had around forever: Life Expectancy and Firestarter. There's the weird, right there in the first 20 pages. It's screaming "come on in, the water's fine!"

Floodgates opened and washed away my doubts. I laid 5 pages today and I'm itching to do the rest.

I'll try to post something in SYW this weekend

[James D. Macdonald]

Floodgates opened and washed away my doubts. I laid 5 pages today and I'm itching to do the rest.


Go, you!

If it works, it's right.

[bearilou]

I have a confession to make.

Not wanting to rehash ye ol' to prologue or not to prologue debate, I will state for the record that while I read them, I'm not fond of them. I find a vast majority of them provide nothing more than could have been accomplished within the novel itself. Many times, they're outright dreadful.

I try to defend their place, though, even when I can't point to any one in recent reading history for me that have worked.

I found one and it will be one that I will use as an example of where it worked, and one that I will study intensely on how and why it worked not only as the prologue but as a lead-in to the novel itself.

If you haven't read The Price Of The Stars by Debra Doyle and James D. Macdonald, do so. That was one hell of a good build up in the prologue. For someone who doesn't think prologues work most of the time, this one did. (disclaimer: still reading, but wanted to pause to make this comment)

*hangs head* Why have I not read this before now? I'm a bad bearilou.

As always, Uncle Jim, you are a light shining brightly in the darkness.

[bearilou]

As always, Uncle Jim, you are a light shining brightly in the darkness.

Now that I've burbled shamelessly like the fangirl that I am, I have a question re: my previous comment.

Uncle Jim, in regards to the prologue to The Price Of The Stars, was that something you planned from the beginning? Or was it information you knew needed to be imparted and after writing the book, realized it worked better as a prologue?

[James D. Macdonald]

That was a separate short story that we'd written in-universe. But we couldn't fitgure out where in the story to put it ... and there was too much of a gap in time-and-space from the end of the story to the start of the main story, so it wouldn't do as a chapter one (as I thought at the time... now, knowing what I know now, I might well have started what is now Chapter One with "Five years later...." and called it Chapter Two. Or maybe not.)

Pray note that, as it stands, the prologue is completely dispensable. Skip it and you lose nothing. Also, the main character in the prologue is the same as the main character in the rest of the book. People who do read the prologue, and get invested in that character's fortunes, don't have to shift gears, change direction, forget all about this character and suddenly start having to care about someone else entirely.

One of the big problems with prologues is that they squander reader interest. Reader interest is (if you're doing it right) growing from the first word onward. Your prologue is creating reader interest, but if, then, the reader suddenly is told, "but that is not our story," you have to get them interested all over again, and you've lost a slight bit of their trust whilst doing so.

Not a clever plan.

For those who want to play along at home, that prologue, complete, is here:

http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/POTSHEAD.htm

(I should probably put in a link to the e-book version on that page....)

[allenparker]

One of the big problems with prologues is that they squander reader interest. Reader interest is (if you're doing it right) growing from the first word onward. Your prologue is creating reader interest, but if, then, the reader suddenly is told, "but that is not our story," you have to get them interested all over again, and you've lost a slight bit of their trust whilst doing so.

Not a clever plan.

For those who want to play along at home, that prologue, complete, is here:

http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/POTSHEAD.htm

(I should probably put in a link to the e-book version on that page....)

So, now I'm confused. Are you for prologues or against them?

I always thought that prologues gave you a way to introduce the protag and his world. It had to be necessary, but not along the same arc or curve. My best example is one where I was playing the a world before Noah and after the fall of Adam and Eve. I used a prologue to set the location and time frame and to establish the Sons of God and Daughters of Man definition.

It seemed to work. People either hated it or loved it.

I think of prologues as a tool in our arsenal. Used correctly, it is a powerful tool.

[MVK]

My feeling is that prologues are a double edged sword. If you are just giving backstory to the world, then they are usually not needed. They should relate directly to the story that starts in chapter 1 and provide perspective that makes the story in chapter 1 more meaningful.

[James D. Macdonald]

If the prologue tempts the reader to ask, "Will this be on the test?" you're probably doing it wrong.

As to whether I'm for them or against them, I'm against doing them badly.

Much as I'm against using first-person POV badly, present tense badly, and passive voice badly.

Some of those things are harder to do well than others. The readers (bless their dear hearts) recognize bad writing and tend to avoid repeating the experience of reading bad writing. Thus readers have been trained to avoid present tense, passive voice, and prologues.

[blacbird]

The readers (bless their dear hearts) recognize bad writing and tend to avoid repeating the experience of reading bad writing.

True, and to which must be appended:

even if they aren't analyzing in search of specific reasons. The major "principles" of fiction writing got to be there because of writer-reader interactions, not because some whaley pundit decreed them to be so. Crappy superfluous info-dump prologues will cause many many many readers to voyage in search of better reads, just because they are bored.

caw

[Fins Left]

If the prologue tempts the reader to ask, "Will this be on the test?" you're probably doing it wrong.
[...]
Thus readers have been trained to avoid present tense, passive voice, and prologues.

My reading habits were established as a student earning an MS in night school over the course of eight years.

When I read the post up-thread about a prologue done well, I pulled it up intending to read it.

What I found was that the word "Prologue" evoked an instant 'skip' reflex the equivelent of the spanish language instruction pages of modern products. (I don't read spanish)

But, still I intended to read it. So, next I started scrolling to see how long the prologue is. By the time page 6 went by, there was no doubt in my mind that I would not be reading it. I think it was about 12 pages total and I read that last three paragraphs.

So, all of that to say... IF you decide to use a prologue, do not depend on the reader to read it as you write the rest of the book. (Or use a word other than "Prologue" to introduce it.... I suggest "Actual Winning Lotto Ticket Numbers For the Next Three Years")

[allenparker]

As to whether I'm for them or against them, I'm against doing them badly.

Much as I'm against using first-person POV badly, present tense badly, and passive voice badly.


I wonder if you might, in one of your more educational moods, take a short prologue and dissect it. Either a good one or bad might do just as well. Seeing the parts of an example might help to trigger the good prologue from the bad.

thanks in advance.

[James D. Macdonald]

Perfect prologues? Here are two of my favorites:

Not marching in the fields of Thrasymene,
Where Mars did mate the warlike Carthagens;
Nor sporting in the dalliance of love,
In courts of kings where state is overturn'd;
Nor in the pomp of proud audacious deeds,
Intends our Muse to vaunt her heavenly verse:
Only this, gentles,—we must now perform
The form of Faustus' fortunes, good or bad:
And now to patient judgments we appeal,
And speak for Faustus in his infancy.
Now is he born of parents base of stock,
In Germany, within a town call'd Rhodes:
At riper years, to Wittenberg he went,
Whereas his kinsmen chiefly brought him up.
So much he profits in divinity,
That shortly he was grac'd with doctor's name,
Excelling all, and sweetly can dispute
In th' heavenly matters of theology;
Till swoln with cunning, of a self-conceit,
His waxen wings did mount above his reach,
And, melting, heavens conspir'd his overthrow;
For, falling to a devilish exercise,
And glutted now with learning's golden gifts,
He surfeits upon cursed necromancy;
Nothing so sweet as magic is to him,
Which he prefers before his chiefest bliss:
And this the man that in his study sits.Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes
A pair of star-cross'd lovers take their life;
Whose misadventured piteous overthrows
Do with their death bury their parents' strife.
The fearful passage of their death-mark'd love,
And the continuance of their parents' rage,
Which, but their children's end, nought could remove,
Is now the two hours' traffic of our stage;
The which if you with patient ears attend,
What here shall miss, our toil shall strive to mend.Seriously, I'll look around and maybe comment on the next prologue I see in a published book.



What I found was that the word "Prologue" evoked an instant 'skip' reflex the equivalent of the Spanish language instruction pages of modern products. (I don't read Spanish)



And that is the main reason I advise against prologues: Your reaction is absolutely typical of the majority of readers.

[DaveK]

And that is the main reason I advise against prologues: Your reaction is absolutely typical of the majority of readers.

And that is the reason I label my prologues - Chapter 1 ;) Or I use dates or locations. But seriously, I don't understand why someone would skip a section of a book because it is labeled as a prologue. To me the prologue label means that this section is out of sync with the rest of the novel in time, location, characters or voice.

[James D. Macdonald]

But seriously, I don't understand why someone would skip a section of a book because it is labeled as a prologue.

Because readers are like the cats who, having once sat upon a hot stove lid, will not sit upon a cold one.1

==============

1. Mark Twain reference. Into each life a little Twain must fall.

[James D. Macdonald]

And that is the reason I label my prologues - Chapter 1 ;) Or I use dates or locations.



Thou art wise, Faustus.

Most of what I'm doing this week is reading applications for Viable Paradise.

I have two short stories that I need to finish (three if you count that one) and I'm in the midst of a non-fiction piece that'll likely run about fifty pages.

Plus, I have to do revisions on a novel. (Two novels if you count that one.)