Mary Jo Kopechne [Archive] - Absolute Write Water Cooler

katiemac

09-04-2009, 08:51 AM

I'd like to see a list of his accomplishments.
What truly innovative legislation did he initiate?
If there was some, what were the results of his initiatives. Positive or negative?
Did he just talk the talk or really walk the walk.

Was he revered by many because of his actions or just because he was a Kennedy?

I found this article (ABC News (http://i.abcnews.com/Politics/TedKennedy/Story?id=7787098&page=1)) after a quick Google. It discusses his impact on health care (of course), civil rights, LGBT and women's rights, Americans with Disabilities Act (which Kennedy introduced in 1990) and education, to name a few hot spots. I understand he was also skilled at bringing Republicans and Democrats together. The article also serves as a bio, so it's not a strict line-by-line of accomplishments, but there is a hyperlink in the first sentence (landmark legislations) to another article, but for some reason I can't open it.

blacbird

09-04-2009, 11:28 AM

Getting away with murder,

Let's get real now. It wasn't murder.

It was inexcusable, and an eternal blot on Ted Kennedy's life, let alone career. And will never stop being that. He knew that, and I'd venture it affected him pretty deeply in the way he carried on his life after. It was still inexcusable. So I'm mixed and conflicted about his "legacy".

But he's gone now. There's no revenge to be had. He needs to be judged in the balance of plus and minus. Nobody is going to suggest that the death of Mary Jo Kopechne falls in the plus category; or even that any pile of plusses can make up for that. But after that horrific moment, he seems to have done what he could do. Judge accordingly.

Oh, yeah, and there's this kinda famous Bible verse:

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

caw

poetinahat

09-04-2009, 11:36 AM

Well, he wasn't all that admirable in the William Kennedy Smith saga either (overshadowed, perhaps, in history by the Mike Tyson trial; these two rape trials happened at the same time).

But he wasn't the first hero with skeletons; his big brother Jack was certainly of the same cloth - and they're not the only ones in their family.

Then there are the Bill Clintons, Thomas Jeffersons (nod to the 'slaveowner' discussion in a recent thread) and Saint Pauls of the world. Never mind Whitewater and Monica; how Clinton managed to get elected President in the first place, given the string of scandals in his path, is a conundrum to many.

You know what I'd like to see? The Tim Burton version of Robin Hood.

blacbird

09-04-2009, 11:45 AM

how Clinton managed to get elected President in the first place, given the string of scandals in his path, is another conundrum to many.

He was running against a guy who never should have been President in the first place (George H.W. Bush), and who only became such because Ronald Reagan decided to pluck him from the mass of possibilities to be his Vice-Presidential candidate. After which he got elected President only because the Democrats nominated the worst candidate of any major party in my lifetime (Michael Dukakis). And only, because of that sequence of circumstances, did we get the son, George W. Bush, as the 43rd President of the United States.

In case you haven't guessed it already, I truly detest the practice of Presidential nominees being able to name their Vice-Presidential running mates. Out of that practice we've had such luminaries as Richard Nixon, William Miller, Spiro Agnew, Sargent Shriver, Geraldine Ferraro, Dan Quayle, Dick Cheney. John Edwards and Sarah Palin. If you want to include Joe Biden on the list, that's your prerogative, although I'm willing to wait a while. Compared to the others, at least he has a track record of legislative work to fall back on.

poetinahat

09-04-2009, 11:51 AM

*nods* I like the original idea of no running mates: the second-place finisher became the Vice President. That gave us VP's like John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Or the following idea, where separate votes were cast for President and Vice President.

Both have a nice checks-and-balances feel about them.

blacbird

09-04-2009, 12:04 PM

*nods* I like the original idea of no running mates: the second-place finisher became the Vice President.

Well . . . that did give us Aaron Burr. The more I think about it, the better I like the idea of NO Vice-President, other than an emergency interim place-holder until a special election can be called at the swiftest interval (sixty days sounds about right to me).

caw

poetinahat

09-04-2009, 12:06 PM

Well . . . that did give us Aaron Burr.
To quote Alexander Hamilton:

Touché

Shakesbear

09-04-2009, 02:33 PM

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjZlNjA1MTRmYWViNjMwMDUyNjc1ZTg0NDQwZjk2ODc=

I knew about the tragedy before I was in junior high.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKkopechne.htm

Yet I am still bewildered, to this day, how he was elected again and again. In NJ, a death caused by drunk driving is not mere manslaughter. Check this out:
http://www.porfidolaw.com/CM/Publications/Drunken_Driver_Seeking_New_Trial.asp

families were destroyed on both counts.

The National Review article is interesting reading. C.bronco thanks for the link.
What I find distasteful is that Mary Jo Kopechne was denied justice. That in turn damaged the reputation of US justice. Edward Kennedy's presence in the Senate made me wonder about the integrity of other senators. I am from the other side of the pond and know that politicians get away with all sorts - the recent expenses scandal over here is an example - but the Kennedy name and influence was used as a get out to the detriment of so much that is good in the US. I do not think it matters how much good he may, or may not have done; the bottom line is that he left a young woman to drown.

Don

09-04-2009, 04:03 PM

Teddy Kennedy's career in the state house instead of the big house is all the proof I need of the Lizard People and mind-control. A sane society simply would not have such an outcome.

robeiae

09-04-2009, 04:35 PM

Let's get real now. It wasn't murder.

It was inexcusable, and an eternal blot on Ted Kennedy's life, let alone career. And will never stop being that. He knew that, and I'd venture it affected him pretty deeply in the way he carried on his life after. It was still inexcusable. So I'm mixed and conflicted about his "legacy".Oh, I don't know. Most of us--me included--would probably like to think this is the case, but people do far worse without ever "paying the piper" and seem quite capable of sleeping well and/or not being affected, deeply or otherwise.

I think Ted was a creature of entitlement. I think he likely talked himself into the idea that it was all okay because he was just too special. And I think those around him probably helped him do that.

To me, that adds a different kind of tragedy: the tragedy of someone incapable of actually facing their responsibilities.

But he's gone now. There's no revenge to be had.Agreed. He needs to be judged in the balance of plus and minus. Nobody is going to suggest that the death of Mary Jo Kopechne falls in the plus category; or even that any pile of plusses can make up for that. But after that horrific moment, he seems to have done what he could do. Judge accordingly.

Oh, yeah, and there's this kinda famous Bible verse:

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

cawHe did what he wanted to do. He always had that luxury. But he never admitted what he did. He had that luxury, too. Eh.

raburrell

09-04-2009, 04:46 PM

From the excerpts of his memoir that have been released so far, I think it's fair to say he did feel deep remorse. Believed it shorted his father's life. And as far back as 1974, he called his own actions 'inexcusable'. in_memoir_kennedy_talks_of_guilt_kopechne/ (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/09/03/in_memoir_kennedy_talks_of_guilt_kopechne/)

As a Catholic, I think Kennedy believed his sins were between him and God, which might've made the process of atoning for them less public than some would like.

Don

09-04-2009, 04:49 PM

Teddy better hope the atheists are right.

Romantic Heretic

09-04-2009, 04:53 PM

I'm pretty sure God's got a bigger heart than that, Don.

Alpha Echo

09-04-2009, 04:55 PM

BF and I were just talking about this when Ted first died. He kept asking how Ted got away with it? If he were the one to be drunk, drive into water, and leave a woman to drown, he'd be accused of murder, one way or another. No doubt about it. So how come Ted didn't? I just kept saying that Ted was a Kennedy. He was part of America's Royalty. That's the only reason I can come up with.

Now, does all this go to say that Ted didn't do some good in his life? That he felt no remorse? That perhaps he didn't find forgiveness with God? No. He did do some good, using his name and political position. And I would like to think he did feel remorse and find forgiveness with God.

But any "normal" person I believe would have been charged with murder. Who knows what a jury would decide, but the handcuffs would be on the wrists in seconds. And I think Ted should have been treated in the same manner.

He wasn't. He's gone now. For better or worse. It's fair to recognize what he did do for America, what he didn't do. It's not fair to judge. He's gone. Let him rest in peace. Hopefully he found peace with his actions at the end.

robeiae

09-04-2009, 04:56 PM

The cynic in me says "well, he couldn't very well leave it out of his memoirs--the incident--and he appears to have added nothing to the story."

raburrell

09-04-2009, 04:56 PM

I'm personally agnostic, but the man was clearly a believer and signaled he's searched for reconciliation through his faith. If you're a Catholic... you believes God forgives even the worst sins if you truly repent.

As far as a murder charge, it would've been tough to convict. Vehicular homicide wasn't an existing charge back then. The Edgartown DA (I think) came out in the past few days and said that if it had been, he would've charged Kennedy.

Celia Cyanide

09-04-2009, 06:19 PM

Oh, I don't know. Most of us--me included--would probably like to think this is the case, but people do far worse without ever "paying the piper" and seem quite capable of sleeping well and/or not being affected, deeply or otherwise.

He has a memoir coming out soon that states that he was haunted every day of his life by the incident, and he considers it "inexcusable."

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1210930/Ted-Kennedy-memoir-reveals-guilt-inexcusable--terrible-decisions-Chappaquiddick-woman-Mary-Jo-Kopechnes-death.html

robeiae

09-04-2009, 06:30 PM

He has a memoir coming out soon that states that he was haunted every day of his life by the incident, and he considers it "inexcusable."

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1210930/Ted-Kennedy-memoir-reveals-guilt-inexcusable--terrible-decisions-Chappaquiddick-woman-Mary-Jo-Kopechnes-death.html

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4005773&postcount=21

I'm sorry, but imo Ted Kennedy was all about Ted Kennedy, first and foremost. That doesn't make him evil nor does it make him unique--especially in DC--but it does, again imo, make him much less of the "great man" he is now being remembered as. He was a guy of privilege that attained political power, then held on to it for dear life. I have no doubt that he believed in things, that he thought he was doing "good" sometimes. And he probably has done some good (along with a lot of bad). But mostly, he believed in power: his right to have it and his duty to protect it for the Democratic Party.

Any "haunting" issues he had never seemed to have slowed him down one bit, in this regard.

BenPanced

09-04-2009, 06:45 PM

To me, the bottom line is many people are certain they know what happened when they weren't even there and getting their knowledge third, fourth, and tenth hand.

Lyv

09-04-2009, 06:55 PM

Yet I am still bewildered, to this day, how he was elected again and again.
Well, I voted for him because he did a great job. Had Ted Kennedy not been elected again and again, I don't know if there would be FMLA or the Americans with Disabilities Act, to name just two of his many, many accomplishments. My life is better in many ways because of Ted Kennedy, and he kept winning because I (and the majority of voters) voted for who I thought would do the best job and I am only sorry I can't vote for him again.

Plus, he helped my father when he didn't have to. He had nothing to gain from it, but he helped.

Hey, people have reelected legislators who didn't want women or black people to have equal rights. That's bewildering to me.

raburrell

09-04-2009, 07:03 PM

Any "haunting" issues he had never seemed to have slowed him down one bit, in this regard.

Or maybe they kept him moving...

Lyv... Totally agree.

robeiae

09-04-2009, 07:10 PM

Or maybe they kept him moving...
Maybe. But again, I'm a cynic on this. It's not like he spent the remainder of his life giving away his fortune and doing pro-bono work for victim support groups. He lived quite well.

raburrell

09-04-2009, 07:16 PM

Maybe. But again, I'm a cynic on this. It's not like he spent the remainder of his life giving away his fortune and doing pro-bono work for victim support groups. He lived quite well.

Red Letter Day! Rob's become a redistributionist :D

He did tons for victim support groups. Quite a few of the Mass. battered women's shelters owe their funding to him, for example.

Don

09-04-2009, 07:20 PM

Well said, rob. I saw it said elsewhere that while he was perfectly willing to dream up all kinds of programs that took other people's money to do good deeds, he was never seen within a mile of a homeless shelter or charity kitchen.

TK was all about power, not charity. Caring for the poor was a means, not an end.

Lyv

09-04-2009, 07:30 PM

Don

09-04-2009, 07:48 PM

Actually, Don, you're factually wrong. It's hard to prove a negative so I can't ask you for a link to show Kennedy didn't ever visit and soup kitchen or shelter. Which I could easily disprove. But if you're happy with hyperbole and misinformation, I won't pop your balloon.
Hyperbole's fun, I'll admit, and he may indeed have done a photo op or two, so I'll consider myself spanked.

That doesn't change the fact that his game was power, not selfless dedication to helping those less fortunate.

robeiae

09-04-2009, 07:50 PM

I don't know all the specifics of his life. And as I noted, he's probably done good things, both in the public eye and out of it. That's true of a good chunk of the populace.

And for those that were represented by him, if they felt he served them well, so be it.

But that doesn't impact my opinion of him, what he stood for, and what he did in the Senate. On the right side of issues? Sure. On the wrong side? Sure. On balance? Well, I think you all know my answer to that.

Still, I maintain that Kennedy was--first and foremost--about himself and his personal hold on power (and aspirations thereof). His approach--both at the time, later on, and in retrospect--to the Kopechne incident is evidence in that regard. I see nothing admirable or laudable about his actions here, at all.

Celia Cyanide

09-04-2009, 07:52 PM

And I think Angelina Jolie does what she does for the same reason she was making out with her brother--because she's an attention whore--but apparently that doesn't matter.

robeiae

09-04-2009, 09:43 PM

And I think Angelina Jolie does what she does for the same reason she was making out with her brother--because she's an attention whore--but apparently that doesn't matter.
I'm not sure what you mean, here.

mscelina

09-04-2009, 10:08 PM

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4005773&postcount=21

I'm sorry, but imo Ted Kennedy was all about Ted Kennedy, first and foremost. That doesn't make him evil nor does it make him unique--especially in DC--but it does, again imo, make him much less of the "great man" he is now being remembered as. He was a guy of privilege that attained political power, then held on to it for dear life. I have no doubt that he believed in things, that he thought he was doing "good" sometimes. And he probably has done some good (along with a lot of bad). But mostly, he believed in power: his right to have it and his duty to protect it for the Democratic Party.

Any "haunting" issues he had never seemed to have slowed him down one bit, in this regard.

I've got quite a bit of Kennedy literature in my library (I did my thesis on the Kennedy's impact on politics and the media) and the one strain that runs through ALL of the Kennedy's careers is a certain sense of entitlement. They were groomed by their parents to succeed no matter what the cost. Obstacles to that succes were ruthlessly obliterated. Just like many other politicians, Ted Kennedy was a mixture of good and bad.

To me, the bottom line is many people are certain they know what happened when they weren't even there and getting their knowledge third, fourth, and tenth hand.

The Chappaquiddick incident is generally judged by Kennedy's version of events. He left the party with a woman who wasn't his wife and drove the car off a bridge, leaving said woman underwater. He then went home and did not report the incident to authorities until AFTER the car and body were found the next morning. This insured that there was no way to test his blood alcohol level. I'd say that since this is Kennedy's account, it is somewhat more than a second-hand account. Quite justifiably, people think there was more to the incident than Kennedy's version of events, seeing as there was no way to test his impairment when he didn't call the police until many, many hours later.

Well, I voted for him because he did a great job. Had Ted Kennedy not been elected again and again, I don't know if there would be FMLA or the Americans with Disabilities Act, to name just two of his many, many accomplishments. My life is better in many ways because of Ted Kennedy, and he kept winning because I (and the majority of voters) voted for who I thought would do the best job and I am only sorry I can't vote for him again.

Plus, he helped my father when he didn't have to. He had nothing to gain from it, but he helped.

Hey, people have reelected legislators who didn't want women or black people to have equal rights. That's bewildering to me.

Understandble. However, the fact still remains that he was responsible for another person's death and wasn't adequately punished for it. Think about it: Michael Vick went to PRISON for killing dogs. Ted Kennedy got his driver's license suspended for a couple of months.

That doesn't change the fact that his game was power, not selfless dedication to helping those less fortunate.

Hard to condemn the man for doing what comes naturally for a politician.

Lyv

09-04-2009, 10:14 PM

Understandble. However, the fact still remains that he was responsible for another person's death and wasn't adequately punished for it. Think about it: Michael Vick went to PRISON for killing dogs. Ted Kennedy got his driver's license suspended for a couple of months.

Think about it: Michael Vick meant to kill dogs.

I responded to a comment that questioned how Kennedy kept getting reelected. I said why I voted for him. I'm not going to rehash Chappaquiddick. I know as much about it as anyone here, I believe, and I have my opinions on the subject. I voted for Kennedy because in my opinion, the best one for the job. He proved to me over and over that he was indeed.

Celia Cyanide

09-04-2009, 10:16 PM

I'm not sure what you mean, here.

That you think you can know what's in someone's head, and why he does anything he does? That it matters what TK's motivations were, when we never know what ANYONE's motivations are?

mscelina

09-04-2009, 10:21 PM

Think about it: Michael Vick meant to kill dogs.

I responded to a comment that questioned how Kennedy kept getting reelected. I said why I voted for him. I'm not going to rehash Chappaquiddick. I know as much about it as anyone here, I believe, and I have my opinions on the subject. I voted for Kennedy because in my opinion, the best one for the job. He proved to me over and over that he was indeed.

Which I said was understandable.

The opposite opinion, however, is equally valid. And if Michael Vick meant to kill dogs, it's glaringly obvious that Edward Kennedy meant to find some way to disassociate himself with the accident at Chappaquiddick in order to save his political career. If he'd been concerned with doing what was right, he wouldn't have (1) run from the scene; (2) failed to inform the authorities; (3) mentioned to Kopechne's parents when he called to inform them of his daughter's death that HE was the driver of the car; (4) tried to get her out of the car! and (5) would have tried to summon help.

Like it or not, Chappaquiddick is an important issue when contemplating Kennedy's legacy, and it's not an imposition for people outside of Massachussetts to question his continued popularity in the state. *shrug* He may have been the best person for the job, but there are serious questions about his character and integrity due to his actions on that occasion. You don't have to like it; it's a fact.

Lyv

09-04-2009, 10:24 PM

Like it or not, Chappaquiddick is an important issue when contemplating Kennedy's legacy, and it's not an imposition for people outside of Massachussetts to question his continued popularity in the state.
I don't have a problem with that. But someone pondered how he could be re-elcted (and actually, someone else questioned the sanity of those who voted for him). I obviously didn't think it was an "imposition" since I addressed the point, and did so with civility. Should I not have responded to a poster who seemed to be legitimately interested?

mscelina

09-04-2009, 10:28 PM

Lyv

09-04-2009, 10:30 PM

Sure. However, what I said in response to your post was a legitimate point of view. I found it interesting how defensive you got about it. *shrug* If Chappaquiddick bothers you so much, then why participate in a thread about it?
I didn't get defensive at all. And I don't have a problem with people discussing Chappaquiddick (I just don't want to go in depth, since it's never going to be resolved). I think you wanted me to but since I didn't you decided to act as if I posted what you wanted me to rather than what I did.

robeiae

09-04-2009, 10:30 PM

That you think you can know what's in someone's head, and why he does anything he does? That it matters what TK's motivations were, when we never know what ANYONE's motivations are?
I started a post that was something along these lines. I KNOW that I can't say what was in Kennedy's head, anymore than anyone else. Kennedy can--of course--speak to it. But there's no guarantee on his honesty in that regard.

I see his admission of guilty feelings--haunting or otherwise--in his memoirs as self-serving. Sorry.

As to his motivations, I think one of his final acts--petitioning the Mass legislature to do an about face on the issue of how a Senator is replaced--coupled with the fact that he had previously called for the rules to be changed to their current state speaks volumes about his motivations. Volumes. As does his behavior on the Kopechne case, as Celina has so eloquently outlined.

Joe270

09-04-2009, 10:55 PM

Teddy Kennedy's career in the state house instead of the big house is all the proof I need of the Lizard People and mind-control. A sane society simply would not have such an outcome.

Agreed. The least people can argue in defense of TK is negligent homicide with numerous aggravating factors, including drunk driving and tampering with evidence, etc. Just about anyone else in the USA would have faced very serious prison time.

But TK was rewarded with some very serious Senate time instead.

In another bizzare twist, Sen. Craig was outted from the senate for tapping his foot in a public restroom. Hmmmm. He was either guilty of 'closet homosexuallity' or a confused innocent hoping to quickly make it all 'go away'.

Either way, he didn't kill anyone.

But Craig was booted while TK stayed on.

You might be right about the Lizard People after all.

Lyv

09-04-2009, 11:27 PM

Booted? Larry Craig did not seek re-election after finishing his term (despite pledging to resign). Who knows if he would have been re-elected or not?

Joe270

09-04-2009, 11:33 PM

Meh, same thing. He lacked support because of 'foot tapping' while TK had plenty of support after negligent homicide.

Rather nasty double-standard, IMHO.

Lyv

09-04-2009, 11:35 PM

Meh, same thing.
No. He was not forced out. He was allowed to finish his term and chose not to run.

Those are the facts, Joe.

Editing to add that Craig had help from the ACLU (http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/17/aclu.craig/index.html), just to name one source of support.

robeiae

09-04-2009, 11:36 PM

Well, I think--had Kennedy really been held to account for his actions re Kopechne--that his political career might have nose-dived. But that's just supposition.

That said, a nasty-assed sonofabitch can still be an effective legislator (there are just too many examples to cite). So, regardless of Kennedy's actions, if people think he represents them well and they want to vote for him, there's nothing more to say, imo.

Joe270

09-04-2009, 11:50 PM

had Kennedy really been held to account for his actions re Kopechne--that his political career might have nose-dived

That's the point I had hoped to make.

Andrew

09-05-2009, 12:21 AM

Ted is gone. Mary Jo is gone. The '69 incident should have put him back into private work (whatever that is to a Kennedy) but it didn't. I won't pile on a deceased person regardless of how I have viewed him for years... Ted is gone, done, finished.
We libertarians and conservatives will undoubtedly see another lib from Mass and so it goes.

regdog

09-05-2009, 12:48 AM

As a Massachussetts voter I can say why I voted for Kennedy. He introduced legislation for equal rights, women's rights, gay rights, a decent minimum wage, American's with disabilities.

Just as Kennedy's death does not negate the death of MJK, neither does her death negate the good Kennedy did for the people of MA.

C.bronco

09-05-2009, 06:01 AM

It's a tough call. Certainly he did exceptional things. On the other hand, in NJ, were it under trial now and were he a nobody, he'd be in the pokey. The laws are much different now.

If he were a factory worker, would the outcome have been the same?

Absolution and repentence are between him and God. I wouldn't be shocked if he were up there.

I still feel that, somewhere along the line, someone here decided whose life was more important. That's what I don't like.

Lyv

09-05-2009, 06:05 AM

I still feel that, somewhere along the line, someone here decided whose life was more important. That's what I don't like.
Where is "here?"

nighttimer

09-06-2009, 09:07 PM

In another bizzare twist, Sen. Craig was outted from the senate for tapping his foot in a public restroom. Hmmmm. He was either guilty of 'closet homosexuallity' or a confused innocent hoping to quickly make it all 'go away'.

Either way, he didn't kill anyone.

But Craig was booted while TK stayed on.

Unless you're trying to slip a double entendre in here, Larry Craig wasn't "outted" from the Senate and he wasn't "ousted" either. He refused to resign and held on to his seat until his term ended last year.

If he was so innocent, why did he plead guilty? (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2007/08/larry_craig_still_not_gay.html) Doesn't seem the way an innocent man would have reacted.

But maybe a closeted gay man filled with self-loathing might.

EDITED: Please don't hotlink to other sites, thx.-- Williebee

Here's a link (http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/U/m/1/craig_matson.jpg) to the political cartoon.

Larry Craig was a lousy senator, but at least he made it into The Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=larry+craig)

Way to go Larry. You're fabulous!

GeorgeK

09-07-2009, 05:18 AM

If he was so innocent, why did he plead guilty? (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2007/08/larry_craig_still_not_gay.html) Doesn't seem the way an innocent man would have reacted.

I got a speeding ticket while stopped at a stop light a few decades ago, to which I sent in my fine and checked the box saying "no contest".

I had not been speeding. I was at a stop light around midnight when a car that looked much like mine careened around me running the light and went down an alley. I heard the siren approaching so I stayed there expecting the cop to follow the other car. Instead he slammed on the breaks almost hitting me, marched out of his car and put his gun to my head, saying something to the effect of him having to chase me for so long that night that he ought to just end it for good and save the taxpayers' money. (Sorry I don't remember the exact quote, I was a bit shocked to say the least.)

I explained about the other car and that I had just left the hospital after working all day. I gave him the name and number of the supervisor, showed him my hospital ID, my white lab coat.

He took my driver's license and keys back to his squad car and probably 20 minutes later returned with a speeding ticket telling me not to hang around a bad part of town.

I pleaded no contest and paid the fine because I didn't want to be in the same room with that cop ever again. I also couldn't afford the time to take a day off to go and explain that to someone in a suit. I'm not saying that Larry has equally compelling extenuating circumstances, but it irks me when people try to say how an innocent or guilty person should have behaved.

nighttimer

09-07-2009, 10:16 AM

I got a speeding ticket while stopped at a stop light a few decades ago, to which I sent in my fine and checked the box saying "no contest".

I had not been speeding. I was at a stop light around midnight when a car that looked much like mine careened around me running the light and went down an alley. I heard the siren approaching so I stayed there expecting the cop to follow the other car. Instead he slammed on the breaks almost hitting me, marched out of his car and put his gun to my head, saying something to the effect of him having to chase me for so long that night that he ought to just end it for good and save the taxpayers' money. (Sorry I don't remember the exact quote, I was a bit shocked to say the least.)

I explained about the other car and that I had just left the hospital after working all day. I gave him the name and number of the supervisor, showed him my hospital ID, my white lab coat.

He took my driver's license and keys back to his squad car and probably 20 minutes later returned with a speeding ticket telling me not to hang around a bad part of town.

I pleaded no contest and paid the fine because I didn't want to be in the same room with that cop ever again. I also couldn't afford the time to take a day off to go and explain that to someone in a suit. I'm not saying that Larry has equally compelling extenuating circumstances, but it irks me when people try to say how an innocent or guilty person should have behaved.

So you're irked and Larry Craig pled guilty to cruisng for anonymous gay sex in a men's room.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not making a connection here. :rolleyes