Archive of the NEPAT

[writerjenn]

Oh, thank you for asking. I've been wondering if I'm just dumber than I thought. I have no idea what a "spline" is!!!! A book has a "spine" but a "spline????"

If there is such a thing, you and I can both wear dunce caps, Sheryl. It's certainly a new one on me.

People on the PA board act as if they know what it is!

Someone???? :Wha: (Right now everyone's Googling the word "spline!")

Nancy


Per Dictionary.com
A Spline is:

1. a. Any of a series of projections on a shaft that fit into slots on a corresponding shaft, enabling both to rotate together.
b. The groove or slot for such a projection.
3. A flexible piece of wood, hard rubber, or metal used in drawing curves.

4. A wooden or metal strip; a slat.


J

[Crunchy Frog]

Oh, thank you for asking. I've been wondering if I'm just dumber than I thought. I have no idea what a "spline" is!!!! A book has a "spine" but a "spline????"


It reminds me of "splunge." It's from a Monty Python sketch. Splunge is a made-up word that means it's a great-idea-but-possibly-not-and-I'm-not-being-indecisive.

You can read the entire sketch here (http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode06.htm#10). (You can also read the Crunchy Frog sketch on the same page too.)

[pepperlandgirl]

DISCLAIMER: The following is me probably taking things too personally. It's the "stand up for the little guy, populist" side of me rearing it's ugly head. But part of writing is being able to express emotions and feelings and conveying them coherently.

I've read here, "sure I'll read your book when it gets released by a 'real' publisher" and for some reason that really bothers me. So does "we won't review your book because it's not from a "real" publisher. And I also have an issue with the Author's Guild.

First off, it seems as if the 16 months I spent working on this project is invalidated simply because PA says they are a traditional publisher, someone else says they're not.

Second, I strongly feel that my book should stand or fall on its own merits just like any other book from any other "real" publisher would- period. It shouldn't matter who's name is listed as the publisher. And if it does, I'll gladly put a sticker over the PA logo and white out any PA reference. Look, to me the story is the thing, the characters are what it's all about, and being able to weave the two together is the magic. Not two words that serve as a lightning rod. If my book sucks, it sucks because it sucks- not because it came from "x" publisher. And I can deal with that.

Third, I buy the book if it piques my curiousity- not because of who publishes it. Personally, I tend to gravitate towards to satirical, off-the-wall books such as "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" or this other book I've heard about called "Atlanta Nights." But that's just me.

Okay, I'm done. I apologize for going on so long. Part of it is nerves from getting married in four days; most of it is from geniunely trying to work through this in my mind. I understand that I'm probably overly idealistic here. Guys, I believe I am an independent thinking kind of guy- what am I missing here?

I was never a PA author, but I understand your frustration.

"I'll read your book when it's released by a 'real' publisher" is a valid complaint though. I get my books from two sources--book stores and the library. As has been established, very few PA books make it to book stores and libraries. There are enough books out there, and my time is limited enough, that I'm not going to hunt out books on the Internet from obscure authors. I'll read authors I've never heard of if the book appeals to me--but I have to see the book first.

Second, I agree your book should stand on its own merits; however, the PA sticker indicates that the book could not stand on its own merits to the publishers we know and trust. And see issue number 1--your book will never stand on its own merits if people like me will never find it. It indicates the same thing to the Author's Guild and to critics. Is it fair? In some cases, no--and the authors of those books hopefully will write another and try again. But why should the reader, who has to pay for the privilege of reading your work, take a chance on a book that hasn't been vetted through an editing process? That isn't the best it could be? That isn't a clean copy? Readers don't owe you (general you, all authors) anything. They certainly don't owe a chance to unknown authors, or authors who use a subsidy publisher, a vanity publisher, or a scam publisher. Authors may have a wonderful story to tell, but nobody has the obligation to read it.

Third, if the publisher does not get the book into bookstores and libraries, and if the publisher does zero work to publicize it, then how would you even know it piques your interest? Unless I actually put forth the effort to seek out PA books, and I can't imagine why I would, I will never have the chance to read them. There could be a dozen books in the PA catalogue that would thrill and amaze me but I'll never know because I'll never see them. And you know what? Even if one dedicated author gets his/her book into a bookstore somehow (or a library), I probably still won't pick it up. See point 2. It's my time and my money and I want a guarentee (as much as anybody can get) that I won't be wasting it.

[Through The Looking Glass]

From what I see, the P/A Message Board is made up of people who would like to talk about writing. There are others who enjoy just shooting the breeze, and talk about nothing.

[Galoot]

So in a court of law if I'm asked point blank if I paid to have my book published, my answer is "no, I did not."Fair enough. If you've bought no books, you haven't paid to have them published. But in the POD world your books aren't published until they're bought, unless you accept the most liberal definition of the word "publish (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=publish)". They're just data files waiting to be printed.

The moment you say "give me 50 copies" and hand over your credit card, you're paying them to publish your book. Remember that $5 price difference between PA books and regular ones. (What's it cost to digitally print a single trade sized paperback? Anyone?)

If you decide never to buy your own books (Good for you. You'll get a case of books for free from many commercial publishers.), then those few who are willing to pay $5 over the price of a normal book are the ones paying. Again, fair enough. Technically, you aren't paying to be published--your readers are. Keep in mind, though, that the only way to get most sane readers to buy a $20 paperback is to twist their arms in person. While you, personally, may not have a car trunk full of your own books, most PA authors sell the bulk of their books only after buying them first.


If PA is none of the above where do they fit? Apparently somewhere in the nether region in between.Nope. They're a vanity press. Whether you pay them a big lump of money up front or you pay them $5 per book after the fact, you're paying.

Divide the number of PA books that have sold by the number of (formerly) happy PA authors, multiply that by $5 and you've got the vanity press fee right there.


I generally support the alleged stated purpose of what PA supposedly stands for- giving first time authors a chance at getting their work published.Kinkos will give me the same chance. With Kinkos I can sell my own books from the back of my car (at a profit!), and they won't hold onto the rights for my book for the next seven years, either.

I support giving new authors a chance, too, hoping to become one myself. But, as a reader, I'm not going to hand over my money to just anyone who happens to get themselves hooked up with a printer. Just stringing 90,000 words together doesn't make a readable book. You know that yourself, right?

Unless the publisher stands to lose money by continually publishing crap, nobody will buy their books.

PA makes money no matter what they publish, whether it's Pulitzer Prize caliber work or My Life As a Maggot: Memoirs of a Fly.


Where they've gone wrong is that PA has developed a business model to keep costs low which basically forces the author to become extremely creative in terms of trying to market the book.No, where they've gone wrong is in their sales pitch. It can be simplified:

PublishAmerica: You write it, we'll print it for you and slap an impossibly high price tag on it. Act now and we'll deliberately piss off the bookstores for free on your behalf!


In a perfect world where I ran PA or had my own publishing house, I would do much of what PA is doing with the exception of : 1.) I would significantly cut down the number of books produced per year, 2.) concentrate on promoting new authors and find a way to get them space in the stores, 3.) edit the hell out of the books.Aside from the "new authors" part, you've just described a real publisher. Change it to "all authors, new or established."


I think much of PA's stated purpose is noble. I also think that somewhere along the way that noble purpose has been grossly preverted.PA's purpose is stated in words deliberately chosen for either; a) vagueness, b) dual-meaning, or c) emotional value. Their stated purpose appears noble at first glance. It even looks that way at second glance. It isn't until you've forked over the bucks for a case of your own books, or learned that "non-returnable" is not a selling point, that you realize their stated purpose can mean almost the exact opposite of what you thought it did when you first signed up.

PA's stated purpose was perverted from the start. It was deliberately worded to say two different things depending on whether you read it before or after you got burned.


I've read here, "sure I'll read your book when it gets released by a 'real' publisher" and for some reason that really bothers me.I'm not trying to be a jerk, but why? Would you shell out $20 for a book written by a stranger just because his mother tells him it's "really, really good?"

You know darned well no editor ever looked at any PA book longer than it took to run it through a spell-checker. Nobody approved a PA book before publication other than the author and his supportive friends. That doesn't mean a PA book is a bad book, it simply means it's a bad risk.

Wouldn't you take your $20 and buy a book you knew was on the shelves because the publisher has a vested interest in selling you something good, then take the change and buy a burger?

If a $20 book is to have any chance against a $10 or $15 book, two things need to happen. It'll need to be damned good, and it'll need to be on the shelf at my store so I can see for myself how good it is.


First off, it seems as if the 16 months I spent working on this project is invalidated simply because PA says they are a traditional publisher, someone else says they're not.Your time hasn't been invalidated. You finished a book. That's more than most people can say. You've proven you can do it. So do another. Betcha it'll take less time.

Your book hasn't been invalidated. It's simply been made unavailable at my local book store. Thank PA's non-returns policy and insane pricing schemes for that.


Second, I strongly feel that my book should stand or fall on its own merits just like any other book from any other "real" publisher would- period.Good! Do you believe in your writing enough to send your next book to a commercial publisher? Because if it has enough merit to stand on its own, they'll buy it, promote the hell out of it, distribute it as far as my dinky little store in Canada...

...and you'll make money even if it bombs.

[Ed Williams]

...the dispute broadens out, now there is a thread to talk about the original thread, which is where the scrap started in the first place - you can peruseth it for thyselves here:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8361.htm

Is this sort of like the literary equivalent of a steel cage match? Vince McMahon would be proud!

[Diana Hignutt]

It reminds me of "splunge." It's from a Monty Python sketch. Splunge is a made-up word that means it's a great-idea-but-possibly-not-and-I'm-not-being-indecisive.


Yeah, splunge for me too!

diana

[James D. Macdonald]

"Spline" (http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/%7Elambert/splines/) is also a function that is defined on an interval, is used to approximate a given function, and is composed of pieces of simple functions defined on subintervals and joined at their endpoints with a suitable degree of smoothness.

For those who were wondering what the foo a "blad" (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/newauthors/2957.htm) is -- it's an acronym; it stands for "Book Layout And Design." A blad is a marketing and sales tool, used for titles that will sell heavily through the trade, where advance material is needed by the sales force to sell the title. A blad will often feature sections from the finished book, including the cover artwork, page layouts, and images.

Needless to say, no PA book in history has had a blad, and talking about 'em in the context of a PA book isn't useful.

[ByGrace]

Guys, I'm not trying to be decisive, but I've been thinking about the idea that PA authors are vanity published because they have bought some copies of their own books. I know several authors published with highly respected traditional publishers. I have asked them if they have bought copies of their books, and the answer was yes, they wanted to have extras on hand. Only one with Saint Martins Press told me he hadn't bought any, they gave him a box of 100 copies, but he can buy more if he wishes at 40% off.

I know another author (I will not publicly mention her name) that is one of the best selling romance authors. She has a special room in her home that is a library of her books. She has several copies of each title that she keeps on hand. These copies she has had to purchase. She gives them away most of the time as gifts. Her husband owns a bookstore, and they specialize in her books. They buy her titles from the publisher. Her publishers are not providing her with free copies other than what they give her when a new title is released.

She is in no way vanity published. Publishers such as Harlequin, Bantam, and Doubleday publish her.

On the other hand, I do understand what you are saying in the sense that PA is using this 'will give you 50% off' as a means of pulling in income since they know full well that the author isn't going to bring in much more than that. They know their no return policy, lower than standard discounts to bookstores, and high book prices doom a book into obscurity....AND THEY DON'T CARE!

Here's another thing. It has always bothered me that PA puts in the inside of their books 'Baltimore'. Frederick is a long way from Baltimore. How can they make a claim that their company is headquartered there? Isn't that misleading?

[James D. Macdonald]

Why PublishAmerica is a vanity press.

If a publisher said, "We'll publish your book if you pay us $375," we'd all instantly recognize it as a vanity, right?

PublishAmerica charges that $375, only they do it on the back end -- adding it to the cover price of the book.

Someone, somewhere, perhaps Meiners in his experience as a straight-on vanity publisher (Erica House) noticed that authors, on average, bought (or leaned on their friends to buy) 75 copies of their own book.

Sure, some might buy none -- but someone else would buy 150, and the average would be maintained.

So ... the $375 vanity fee was divided by 75, and added to the prices of the books. PublishAmerica books are, on average, $5 more than books produced with the same technology by other publishers.

PublishAmerica, like other vanity presses, will accept darn-near anything. The Purple Pony and Atlanta Nights prove that.

PublishAmerica, like other vanity presses, does not even attempt to get bookstore sales for its books. The non-returnability, the high prices, the short discounts, the lack of a sales force, the lack of a catalog, the lack of trade advertising, the lack of advance review copies, prove that.

Like other vanity presses, PublishAmerica markets its books soley to its own authors. The 50% initial discount, and the periodic letters granting discounts to authors for bulk purchases, prove that. (Even the claims that PA promotes the book (in order-forms sent to the author's friends and family, and in the form-letter "press release") are part of marketing to the author.

PA assumes that no one other than the author and his family will buy the books. That's why they set the price at a point where no one but the author and his family would buy the books.

The production of PA books is slapdash -- the covers constructed out of clipart, the editing done with a grammar-check program, the design perfunctory at best.

Printing the books costs PA $0.90 cents for the cover, plus $0.013/page, and the printing doesn't happen until PA has cash in hand. (The orders through Ingram, where there's even a chance of the "90 day" question arising, are effectively nil; see the many places where we've checked Ingram numbers on PA's best-selling books.)

If PublishAmerica isn't even making an attempt to sell books to the general public, who are they selling books to? Answer: their own authors. That's a vanity press.

What's the difference between vanity publishing with PA and self-publishing?

Self-publishing doesn't include an onerous 7-year contract, payment of "royalties," or giving up rights. Self-publishers can set up their own distribution, set their own prices, and control all aspects of the publishing process.

Does the fact that some PA authors make a profit selling their books out of the trunks of their cars mean that PA isn't a vanity press?

No. I'm sure some Vantage customers make a profit selling their books out of the trunks of their cars too.

Pay to publish is still pay to publish, no matter how it's disguised with smoke and mirrors.








=================

Grace, if those authors with legitimate houses never bought a copy of their books in their lives -- their publishers woudln't notice. As a percent of the totals that any of those authors you mentioned sold, their self purchases would be tiny.

If PublishAmerica authors didn't buy their own books, PublishAmerica would go out of business.

That's the difference.

If I were to call up one of my publishers and ask for a case of books, they'd say, "Sure thing, Jim!" and they'd send it to me. I'd have to pay for it (that's in my contract) at wholesale price. But I wouldn't have to cut a check or haul out my credit card. The price of the books would be deducted from my next royalty check. Who at PublishAmerica has ever gotten a royalty check big enough that it would cover a case of their own books?

[DaveKuzminski]

Baltimore, huh? Sounds like one more thing to mention to the FTC.

[Moondancer]

What makes PA a vanity publisher vs a traditional publisher is not looking at what one part of their business model means in comparison to one particular aspect of a traditional publisher but looking at the whole of their business model and comparing whole againt whole. Other publishers may have one or two aspects that are similar to PA but never all of them. It's the similarities that hook people while the dissimilar is played down.

It's like man-who statistics. Someone poses a theory based on research of the general population and someone else comes along and says, "I know a man who..."

It's the "there are exceptions to every rule" rule.

When you have 11,000 authors and less that .005% (yes, the decimal belongs there) of them have sold a 1000 or more books where would you place the the authors who haven't? As the rule or the exception? Yet the exceptions are what continues to give people hope. A traditional publisher using a traditional publishing business model would have gone bankrupt long ago while PA continues to make money hand over fist.

[Sheryl Nantus]

"Spline" is also a function that is defined on an interval, is used to approximate a given function, and is composed of pieces of simple functions defined on subintervals and joined at their endpoints with a suitable degree of smoothness.

For those who were wondering what the foo a "blad" (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/newauthors/2957.htm) is -- it's an actronym; it stands for "Book Layout And Design." A blad is a marketing and sales tool, used for titles that will sell heavily through the trade, where advance material is needed by the sales force to sell the title. A blad will often feature sections from the finished book, including the cover artwork, page layouts, and images.

Needless to say, no PA book in history has had a blad, and talking about 'em in the context of a PA book isn't useful.

*scratches head*

"spline" was used by a PA author in a conversation with a bookstore manager who stated that since he didn't have the title along the spline, he wouldn't carry the book or some such thang...

I think the word WAS spine, but since this PA author used it it's spread through the PA boards like wildfire.

darned funny, says I.

*ah, found a linky - this is the author in question
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8341.htm

or is this another usage of the word that I don't know about?

[Kevin Yarbrough]

I get that these people are consummate spin artists. But I guess I'm having a hard time finding the "f-word" in this- fraud.

JD, the fraud lies in their wording. They claim that they get their books into all bookstores, edit line by line, and are very selective in what they accept. As you know they don't get our books into bookstores, don't edit, and aren't selective at all. They use word games to get new author to sign and therein lies the fraud, deceptive practice, whatever you want to call it.

I've read PA books, don't have a problem with it. Some are really good, some aren't. If the book sounds good I will read it. The only problem is I can't get a PA book in a bookstore and unless I want to order from PA, an online store, or the author I will never be able to.

[Christine N.]

Darn! The chatroom thread is gone. But the thread about the thread remains. Go figure.

[James D. Macdonald]

Speaking of Monty Python, the Crunchy Frog (http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode06.htm#5) sketch is apropos when we talk about PA's webpage and advertising:


Praline: I'm not interested in your sales! I have to protect the general public! Now what about this one. (superintendent enters) It was number five, wasn't it? (superintendent nods) Number five Ram's Bladder Cup. (exit superintendent) What sort of confection is this?

Milton: We use choicest juicy chunks of fresh Cornish ram's bladder, emptied, steamed, flavoured with sesame seeds, whipped into a fondue and garnished with lark's vomit.

Praline: Lark's vomit?

Milton: Correct.

Praline: Well it don't say nothing about that here.

Milton: Oh yes it does, on the bottom of the box, after monosodium glutamate.

Praline: (looking) Wel I hardly think this is good enough. I think it's be more appropriate if the box bore a great red label: Warning! Lark's vomit!

Milton: Our sales would plummet!

[writerjenn]

...the dispute broadens out, now there is a thread to talk about the original thread, which is where the scrap started in the first place - you can peruseth it for thyselves here:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8361.htm

Is this sort of like the literary equivalent of a steel cage match? Vince McMahon would be proud!

I was sort of thinking it reminding me of schoolyard days, when the bully and his gang picked on some poor unsuspecting kid for doing nothing but looking the wrong way.

Jenn

[Kevin Yarbrough]

Joy, the website I listed was fake. If you look it belonged to Meiners homepage. I was razing Ed, saying that Meiners had sexy pics of him on his homepage.

I have a spline. The third def. is me. I don't draw curves, I just make the women curve back to me at a later date.:banana:

Joy, I would love to see JBL sign with PA. After his first check he would go to Frederick, pick up Clopper and body slam him through the shiny, clean desk he has. Man, think Vince would put that on pay- per- view? I would pay for that.


Per Dictionary.com
A Spline is:

1. a. Any of a series of projections on a shaft that fit into slots on a corresponding shaft, enabling both to rotate together.
b. The groove or slot for such a projection.
3. A flexible piece of wood, hard rubber, or metal used in drawing curves.

4. A wooden or metal strip; a slat.


J

[Susan Gable]

P.S. Susan, if you want to read a true tale of romance, something that resonates, just go right here:

http://www.ed-williams.com/sally.html

Ed, I went and read your romance story. I am...speechless. Truly speechless. A writer without words. :Ssh: :faint:

:roll:

Thank you for starting out my Monday morning with a chuckle.

Susan G. (What? What do you mean it wasn't supposed to be funny? :Smack: :o Oops. <G>)

[AnneMarble]

I know another author (I will not publicly mention her name) that is one of the best selling romance authors. She has a special room in her home that is a library of her books. She has several copies of each title that she keeps on hand. These copies she has had to purchase. She gives them away most of the time as gifts. Her husband owns a bookstore, and they specialize in her books. They buy her titles from the publisher. Her publishers are not providing her with free copies other than what they give her when a new title is released.

I know of authors (published by major NYC prseses) who often give away copies of their own books to fans. Most of them see it as a form of marketing. For example, they'll run a contest, announcing it on various and sundry lists, give away free copies of their books (and sometimes other things as well, such as gift baskets) to the winners, announce the winners on-line, and then maybe even ask the fans who entered if they want to get their newsletter. Once in a while, some authors will also buy copies of their books to sell at conferences, etc. However, the difference is really in the percentages involved. Even if an author buys a whole box of books, that is just a tiny percentage of the number of books they really sell. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if most authors just make do with the free copies they get.

Here's another thing. It has always bothered me that PA puts in the inside of their books 'Baltimore'. Frederick is a long way from Baltimore. How can they make a claim that their company is headquartered there? Isn't that misleading?

Heck, I'm surprised they don't claim to be in Washington, D.C., as Frederick is nowadays considered on of the "suburbs" of D.C. ;)

[Kevin Yarbrough]

Ed has writen one of the most touching love scenes in modern literature. The feeling between Ed jr. and Sally is so touching (pun intended) that it brought tears to my eyes and a tent to my campout.

Thanks Ed for the "touching" moment I had after reading the chapter.

[NancyMehl]

*scratches head*

"spline" was used by a PA author in a conversation with a bookstore manager who stated that since he didn't have the title along the spline, he wouldn't carry the book or some such thang...

I think the word WAS spine, but since this PA author used it it's spread through the PA boards like wildfire.

darned funny, says I.

*ah, found a linky - this is the author in question
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8341.htm

or is this another usage of the word that I don't know about?

Sheryl,

You and I seem to be the only people who understand the point here! This is too funny!!!!!

I don't care what a "spline" really is!!! The point is that PA authors are having a long, drawn out conversation about how long a book has to be to have something printed on the "spline!" And several of them have responded.

UNLESS SHERYL AND I ARE MISTAKEN - the word is SPINE!!!!

Okay, now I'm exhausted. I've got to lay down. I have a sharp pain in my spline. :roll:

Nancy

[Kevin Yarbrough]

PA- the only sexual disease you get without intercourse or foreplay. (Thank God for KY jelly huh?)

[Kevin Yarbrough]

My PA book has writing on the spline. Does that mean that PA is a traditional publisher if they do this?:Smack: :banana:

Owwww, I pulled something.

[Sheryl Nantus]

Sheryl,

You and I seem to be the only people who understand the point here! This is too funny!!!!!

I don't care what a "spline" really is!!! The point is that PA authors are having a long, drawn out conversation about how long a book has to be to have something printed on the "spline!" And several of them have responded.

UNLESS SHERYL AND I ARE MISTAKEN - the word is SPINE!!!!

Okay, now I'm exhausted. I've got to lay down. I have a sharp pain in my spline. :roll:

Nancy

actually, the funnier part is now they're fighting over who's right...

*insert Monty Python voice*

The Spline...

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8341.htm

and the sad part is that these are people who obviously have NO idea about publishing and are preparing to launch their big campaign to get their book sold.

just imagine going into your local Barnes and Noble (and let's not forget how many times I've seen it spelt NobEL) and pointing out that you have a spline on your book!

*shudders*

and yes, I've seen the mangling of Noble too often to not comment on it - including links to the Barnes&Nobel website.

*sighs*

folks, I don't care how good your book is - if you don't spell your posts correctly in the public eye, you're going to look like an illiterate and bad writer, to say the least.

[Savannah Blue]

*scratches head*

"spline" was used by a PA author in a conversation with a bookstore manager who stated that since he didn't have the title along the spline, he wouldn't carry the book or some such thang...

I think the word WAS spine, but since this PA author used it it's spread through the PA boards like wildfire.

darned funny, says I.

*ah, found a linky - this is the author in question
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8341.htm

or is this another usage of the word that I don't know about?

Heh, Sheryl, that first post should have given you a hint...'shelve' huh? :Wha:

[stormie]

Hey, Sheryl and Nancy,

Thanks for the PA link. Got a good laugh this morning!

[Ed Williams]

...and I am asking this in my best Ricky Riccardo voice, but can y'all please "spline" something to me? (I promise I will never use the word "spline" again in any context).

Kev, Susan, I wanted to write something heartfelt and romantic like "Sally the Screamer" so that people would see my shy, sensitive, contemplative side. I'm greatly honored that it has touched both of you as well.

Takin' a swing over into the Great and Mighty Land of Poz, we find the most unusual and revealing author photo of all time:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8374.htm

For once, I don't know what to say...

[Literary Lola]

....what Larry and Curlem (Larry Clopper and Willem Meiners, the founders of PA) actually look like, you can find out by clicking right here:

http://www.publishamerica.com/conventions/Frederick/html/DSC05973.htm

Kev's got a free clinic set up for any of you ladies who swoon after seeing these two bastions of publishing knowledge in the flesh...
Dammit, Ed, it's just bad luck seeing a thing like that.

[Jaws]

JD has raised an issue that I think is best answered by quoting myself (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=102769#post102769) from a while back.
Nicole is correct. It's not fraud to submit a scam manuscript.

To go even farther, it's impossible to be fraud unless/until the "victim" has been deprived of something of value. As a matter of law, an open submission process is merely a matter of normal business procedure, and the "time wasted" is not a thing of value that one can be deprived of. So, if the submitter doesn't sign a contract and take an advance, there's no possible basis for fraud.

The elements of fraud are:
* A misrepresentation of fact (or, when there is a duty to disclose, failure to disclose that fact)
* With the intent to deceive
* That is reasonably and actually relied upon by the victim
* That is the proximate cause
* Of a definable loss of a thing of value (usually, but not always, money) by the victim

(There are, of course, lots of other ways to say this; some authorities say that there are only four elements, but they aren't even consistent in how they combine what others call five elements.)
On the other hand, the author's time is a thing of value, particularly under the "faithful servant" doctrine (which has little to do with servants, butlers, maids, or anything a nonlawyer would recognize as related to the word).

[Sheryl Nantus]

Hey, Sheryl and Nancy,

Thanks for the PA link. Got a good laugh this morning!

*chuckles*

it's funny, but at the same it's a sad reflection of the type of victim that PublishAmerica preys on...

here you have people who have little if any knowledge about the publishing world or even how their books are created, preparing to march into their local stores and make a coherent argument about why the bookstore manager should take a chance at even allowing their books in on consignment.

I suspect a lurker here (waves!) has started the "it's spine!" commentary on that particular thread since it appeared after my post this morning - welcome to the lurker and thanks for bringing it to their attention. I've seen "spline" used in too many posts to not get just a wee bit curious as to what it was supposed to be. The fact that the majority of PA authors are now using it as another meaning for "spine" is a sad indication of how they depend on each other for approval and information.

and anyone who thinks that their public posts don't influence their status as a writer is an idiot, for lack of a nicer word. If James put up incoherent ramblings with misspellings and bad grammer, or Susan tossed up "spline" and "shelve" in every second post I'd tend to view their author status in a lesser light. What you post IS important as well as HOW you post it - and misspellings seem to be running rampant on the PA boards. It's sad to watch and sadder to see them fighting among each other over such simple things as what a "spine" is or isn't.

*shakes head*

PA authors - you deserve better. You deserve a REAL publisher who will EDIT your books and at least be honest with you in telling you if you have any skill or not. To say nothing of getting your books on the "shelve" at your bookstore.

[Savannah Blue]

Why PublishAmerica is a vanity press.

If a publisher said, "We'll publish your book if you pay us $375," we'd all instantly recognize it as a vanity, right?

PublishAmerica charges that $375, only they do it on the back end -- adding it to the cover price of the book.

Someone, somewhere, perhaps Meiners in his experience as a straight-on vanity publisher (Erica House) noticed that authors, on average, bought (or leaned on their friends to buy) 75 copies of their own book.

Sure, some might buy none -- but someone else would buy 150, and the average would be maintained.

So ... the $375 vanity fee was divided by 75, and added to the prices of the books. PublishAmerica books are, on average, $5 more than books produced with the same technology by other publishers.

PublishAmerica, like other vanity presses, will accept darn-near anything. The Purple Pony and Atlanta Nights prove that.

PublishAmerica, like other vanity presses, does not even attempt to get bookstore sales for its books. The non-returnability, the high prices, the short discounts, the lack of a sales force, the lack of a catalog, the lack of trade advertising, the lack of advance review copies, prove that.

Like other vanity presses, PublishAmerica markets its books soley to its own authors. The 50% initial discount, and the periodic letters granting discounts to authors for bulk purchases, prove that. (Even the claims that PA promotes the book (in order-forms sent to the author's friends and family, and in the form-letter "press release") are part of marketing to the author.

PA assumes that no one other than the author and his family will buy the books. That's why they set the price at a point where no one but the author and his family would buy the books.

The production of PA books is slapdash -- the covers constructed out of clipart, the editing done with a grammar-check program, the design perfunctory at best.

Printing the books costs PA $0.90 cents for the cover, plus $0.013/page, and the printing doesn't happen until PA has cash in hand. (The orders through Ingram, where there's even a chance of the "90 day" question arising, are effectively nil; see the many places where we've checked Ingram numbers on PA's best-selling books.)

If PublishAmerica isn't even making an attempt to sell books to the general public, who are they selling books to? Answer: their own authors. That's a vanity press.

What's the difference between vanity publishing with PA and self-publishing?

Self-publishing doesn't include an onerous 7-year contract, payment of "royalties," or giving up rights. Self-publishers can set up their own distribution, set their own prices, and control all aspects of the publishing process.

Does the fact that some PA authors make a profit selling their books out of the trunks of their cars mean that PA isn't a vanity press?

No. I'm sure some Vantage customers make a profit selling their books out of the trunks of their cars too.

Pay to publish is still pay to publish, no matter how it's disguised with smoke and mirrors.








=================

Grace, if those authors with legitimate houses never bought a copy of their books in their lives -- their publishers woudln't notice. As a percent of the totals that any of those authors you mentioned sold, their self purchases would be tiny.

If PublishAmerica authors didn't buy their own books, PublishAmerica would go out of business.

That's the difference.

If I were to call up one of my publishers and ask for a case of books, they'd say, "Sure thing, Jim!" and they'd send it to me. I'd have to pay for it (that's in my contract) at wholesale price. But I wouldn't have to cut a check or haul out my credit card. The price of the books would be deducted from my next royalty check. Who at PublishAmerica has ever gotten a royalty check big enough that it would cover a case of their own books?

I didn't cut this post down in size and there's not one thing I can add to it. It just needed to be bumped back to the top of the pile. It needs to be repeated and it needs to be repeated often.

Thanks Uncle Jim!!

[Jaws]

Actually, one can find the word "spline" used legitimately in publishing, or at least in bookbinding. A "spline" is the extra piece of cloth that is laid over the binding edge of previously bound works being rebound together piecemeal, such as those monstrous whole-year rebindings of journals one finds in university libraries. Of course, what that says about PA authors who are having previously printed material rebound by PA… oh, wait, we decided they just couldn't spell, right?

[CaoPaux]

"Spline" (http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/%7Elambert/splines/) is also a function that is defined on an interval, is used to approximate a given function, and is composed of pieces of simple functions defined on subintervals and joined at their endpoints with a suitable degree of smoothness.Note to self: finish coffee before attempting higher brain functions. I sprained something reading that, I did, I did. :Smack:

On the whole “spline” thing…this has to rank among the saddest examples of “group think” on the PA boards. And that is all I will say about it. Promise. :Ssh:

[Literary Lola]

At the risk of being topical, here's the latest incarnation of the AP article:

http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2005/02/19/92663.php :hat:
Great article. Though they got it wrong. Here's how the real article should have been written:

The two men became friends and started a new scam, PublishAnything. They would take on those people who yearned to be authors but struggled to find a publisher. Their goal was to offer absolutely no editing and zero promotional support and charge the author to do it .

"Our motto is," to quote Willem Meiners, "'Charge 'Em and Screw 'Em.' No manuscript is too lousy, no retail price too high."

"We're very proud of how well we've done," grinned an exultant Larry Cloppers. "I've just purchased a new chalet in the Catskills and Willie, here, has a lovely offshore account that protects us from the Feds."

"Ja, America is great," beamed an oppulent Meines, smelling faintly of bacon grease...

[CaoPaux]

Actually, one can find the word "spline" used legitimately in publishing, or at least in bookbinding. A "spline" is the extra piece of cloth that is laid over the binding edge of previously bound works being rebound together piecemeal, such as those monstrous whole-year rebindings of journals one finds in university libraries. Of course, what that says about PA authors who are having previously printed material rebound by PA… oh, wait, we decided they just couldn't spell, right?In point of fact, I have a friend who (among her many duties) splines for a local university library. If I weren’t so allergic to dust, I'd be in library services myself, most likely. CaoPaux, Spliner Extraordinaire! http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/party/party09.gif

[Dolan]

Gawg! My fellow PA authors have gone soft porn on the Message Boards!

My spline is filled with passion. I hate it but I can't help it. Sending myself for a cold shower.

[T42]

Good Morning All,
I just got a confirmation from the mail service that my letter was signed for at PA. Now what I would like to know and maybe you can answer this Jaws if they don’t respond after accepting the letter for termination and continue to ignore me are they breaking the contract in anyway? It is really going to PMO me if they can just get away with ignoring people but it will just give me more grounds to make a public nuisance of myself.

[Susan Gable]

[QUOTE=Sheryl Nantus] Susan tossed up "spline" and "shelve" in every second post I'd tend to view their author status in a lesser light.


And let us not forget the newly discovered "sensor" - you know, the people who monitor the PA boards and let that photo get through? :Headbang:

Yes, if she's writing erotica, that photo would be a good author pic. Maybe. It would also lead to even more letters from guys in prison. (My husband was less than thrilled the day I called him at work to announce that I had "arrived" as a romance author. Did I get a bigger advance with a new contract? A second case of free books? Did I win a Rita award? Nope. I got a "fan letter" from a guy in prison. LOL!)

Ed, you'd best watch it. Your romantic story also lends itself to these kinds of fans. <G>

Susan G.

[JennaGlatzer]

Folks, just to let you know, the new media contact thing? Already worked. :) :)

Please contact me if you're interested in going on camera to speak against PA and you live in the Seattle area.

[Dolan]

Is that a spline in your pocket or are you just unhappy to see me?

[T42]

Wow Jenna whatever you got going on sounds great. Thanks for your wonderful efforts in helping us! ~Mem

[Literary Lola]

"PublishAmerica is in the business of making authors feel good about themselves, their work and their value on this planet."
Wow, am I ever grateful to learn that. And they're right. Having my book go out to the world in all it's unedited glory with its lovely curly cover, being cheated out of royalties and publicly maligned have done wonders for my self image. Move your a$$ over, Tony Robbins, here comes one empowered broad.

[NancyMehl]

...and I am asking this in my best Ricky Riccardo voice, but can y'all please "spline" something to me? (I promise I will never use the word "spline" again in any context).

Well, thank goodness. I was a little worried. If it had just been one person, I would have just passed it off as a usual PA posting, but when people began to respond, using the word "spline," I wondered if it was time for a mental checkup!!!! Whew! I'm relieved! :hooray:

Not to cast anyone in a negative light, but my goodness. Wouldn't you think that some of the authors over there would wonder about the awful grammar and spelling displayed on that forum? There is a poet there now who writes so poorly I can't even bear to read her posts. However, it isn't just one person. Sadly, mistakes run through almost every writer's messages.

Nancy

[mdin]

In my inbox this morning was the usual smattering of "Local Author Publishes Book" articles from across the country from PA authors. Nine times out of ten they usually don't say anything at all about the publisher but an article that appeared today in the St. Paul Pioneer Press (http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/states/minnesota/counties/dakota/11189121.htm) had this to say:


Soon, Ganzer even had a publisher. PublishAmerica — a traditional publisher that uses technology of self-publishing companies to reduce costs — agreed to look at her manuscript. The Maryland-based company doesn't pay authors an advance but does share royalties and doesn't charge a fee to publish as some vanity publishers do.

Her first draft was too short, PublishAmerica told her, but after some rewrites, Ganzer had a contract. Her book appeared on online and traditional bookstore shelves this month.



lol. "Traditional Bookstore" That's a new one.

(The first time I pulled up the story it didn't try to make me register, but the second time it did. I don't know what's up with that.)

[JennaGlatzer]

Ammendment: Anyone willing to go on camera to speak against PA who lives in WASHINGTON STATE, please email me.

THANKS!

[Diana Hignutt]

Spline, spleen, splunge, spine, sponge...

...it doesn't really matter...few bookstores will take PublishAmerica books...

PA Authors...you can go tell in on the mountain or whatever...nothing will help your book... it is doomed I tell you...doomed!

Sad, but true.

Trust me, I've been there.

diana

[T42]

Why don't I have a report bad post on my box? Do you all think I'm too old to say something bad?:)

[Sheryl Nantus]

this appeared over at the PA boards - I believe it's in response to the NYT ads of last year and your numbers that showed the ones who either paid for an ad directly or who bought their way into the PA "bestseller list" didn't gain anything at all...

your comments:

******
http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8216.htm

I do refer the readers directly to the bn.com site since Amazon/Borders/WaldenBooks (one corporation!) got my listing messed up and indirectly made it difficult for me to even do readings or signings with their stores. Their Books in Print programming stayed messed up for several months despite my protests. Now that they've finally gotten it right, the damage is already done and I have no idea how many sales I might have lost because people could not access my book by it's title. Definitely some, because I've had people come to me and tell me that they had difficulty trying to order my book.
I can easily imagine that someone who was not aware of their super corporation status might search all three sites before they tried B & N or BooksaMillion! Yeah, I'm Pi$$ed!
Sorry for the rant... I've seen where one of PA's bashers quoted Amazon's non sales to demonstrate the non result of my first ad when my ranking actually rose by about 300,000 on the B&N site!
*********
frankly, I don't think that had a whit to do with his bad sales... but then, what do I know?

:)

[Literary Lola]

....welcome, hope you will hang around and post often.

Folks, things are a bit tense over on the PA boards, a simple suggestion about perhaps adding an author's chatroom has turned into pretty much a war - read for thyselves:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8352.htm
Wahhh...I was gone yesterday. Poof! It's gone now. What did it say? Anyone capture it?

[Moondancer]

[QUOTE=Ed Williams
Takin' a swing over into the Great and Mighty Land of Poz, we find the most unusual and revealing author photo of all time:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8374.htm

For once, I don't know what to say...[/QUOTE]

Would that be considered prostituting for your publisher?

[reph]

Why don't I have a report bad post on my box? Do you all think I'm too old to say something bad?:)
The forum-hosting company thinks anyone who reports his or her own bad posts is too drunk to take seriously.

"Traditional bookstore" – um, maybe one that doesn't charge you a fee to walk in?

[Literary Lola]

1. a. Any of a series of projections on a shaft that fit into slots on a corresponding shaft, enabling both to rotate together.
J
Okay, I realize that this is the definition of a spline, but it sounds just plain ol' smutty in a horizontal bop sorta way. OTOH, it may just be my sick mind. I think Publish Anything actually produces splines, not spines because they managed to get the shafting part down to a science.

[Moondancer]

Wahhh...I was gone yesterday. Poof! It's gone now. What did it say? Anyone capture it?

That just happened because I just saw it a few minutes ago.

[AnneMarble]

...Takin' a swing over into the Great and Mighty Land of Poz, we find the most unusual and revealing author photo of all time:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8374.htm

For once, I don't know what to say...

How about...

:Jaw:

[T42]

The forum-hosting company thinks anyone who reports his or her own bad posts is too drunk to take seriously.

"Traditional bookstore" – um, maybe one that doesn't charge you a fee to walk in?
:cry:I stopped drinking last night though. I can't still be drunk. I already have a negative on my rep at least give me a bad post sign so I can turn myself in for bad behavior....please.....sheri girl where are you...I need help here. :Shrug: :hi:

[KellyS.]

...<snip>

Takin' a swing over into the Great and Mighty Land of Poz, we find the most unusual and revealing author photo of all time:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8374.htm

For once, I don't know what to say...

OMG!!! I'm truly at a loss as well. Ok, I will say that is just wrong on soooooo many levels.

[Dawno]

Sorry for the off topic post folks...

Hi Bonnie, I hope you read this. I'd like to ask you just a couple of quick questions about indie bookstore ownership (it's my retirement dream-job) if you'd be willing. Please PM me here at the boards if you wouldn't mind.

...You may now return to your regularly scheduled splining..uh posting.

[Dolan]

Now I know how to market my PA book. I'll get PA to put that Message Board pin-up on my book cover. Folks, this will work!

[Literary Lola]

Ed has writen one of the most touching love scenes in modern literature. The feeling between Ed jr. and Sally is so touching (pun intended) that it brought tears to my eyes and a tent to my campout.

Thanks Ed for the "touching" moment I had after reading the chapter.
REALLY? I need to go take a friggin' shower.

[Sheryl Nantus]

How about...

:Jaw:
and they're such a good Christian publisher...

:D

[Dolan]

Dear Message Board Bosses:

How do I post a nude photo of me on this thread? I think my best nudes were done around age 59 but I can put up a brand new one (a young 63) if you like.

[Literary Lola]

Takin' a swing over into the Great and Mighty Land of Poz, we find the most unusual and revealing author photo of all time:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8374.htm

For once, I don't know what to say...
Oh, you mean the slut muffin pic? Yeah, that isn't something I'd put on a public board unless I had my phone number written on the bathroom stall walls. Note to self: erase phone number on all the bathroom stall walls.

[NancyMehl]

Would that be considered prostituting for your publisher?

It's happening again!!! What are we supposed to be looking at?

I'm going back to bed. This just isn't my day. I can't see anyone's butt!

I think my spline is out of alignment! :Wha:

Nancy

[robeiae]

I hate to say it, but this thread is starting to sound like it belongs on PA, minus the poor grammar of course.

Rob :Ssh:

[WhisperingBard]

OMG!!! I'm truly at a loss as well. Ok, I will say that is just wrong on soooooo many levels.

Probably not the best photo for a teacher to post on the Internet.

[Kevin Yarbrough]

It's happening again!!! What are we supposed to be looking at?

I'm going back to bed. This just isn't my day. I can't see anyone's butt!

I think my spline is out of alignment! :Wha:

Nancy
Me either Nancy. Is/was there a butt to look at? Was it harry or hairless? Was it a big butt or a small one? Was there a tattoo on there? Did it say "for a good time call PA"? Did it say "let me make it easier to get screw*d by PA"? Did it say "insert KY here(the jelly, not me...well, depends on who's butt it was).

Man, see what happens when I get offline.

[CaoPaux]

Fun with Splines (http://www.maxoncomputer.com/tutorial_detail.asp?tutorialID=237&site=) Curves and tension ... oh, my! *fans self*

[Literary Lola]

... but an article that appeared today in the St. Paul Pioneer Press (http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/states/minnesota/counties/dakota/11189121.htm) had this to say:

...Her first draft was too short, PublishAmerica told her, but after some rewrites, Ganzer had a contract. Her book appeared on online and traditional bookstore shelves this month.

lol. "Traditional Bookstore" That's a new one.
Um, is this as opposed to a vanity bookstore?

[Kevin Yarbrough]

Lola, is a vanity bookstore a place that has mirrors up everywhere? Ohh, never mind, that is an adult bookstore. Get those mixed up all the time.

[reph]

Dear Message Board Bosses:

How do I post a nude photo of me on this thread? I think my best nudes were done around age 59 but I can put up a brand new one (a young 63) if you like.
No nudes is good nudes.

[JennaGlatzer]

Guys! Gals! This is so cool. :)

Now I am looking for people willing to go on camera to speak against PA who are from...
PENNSYLVANIA and WASHINGTON.

This thread is moving way too fast and I haven't read any of it since yesterday, but please don't let this get lost. It's important. If you know an unhappy PA'er from either state, please write to me ASAP!

[Sher2]

Oh, you mean the slut muffin pic? Yeah, that isn't something I'd put on a public board unless I had my phone number written on the bathroom stall walls. Note to self: erase phone number on all the bathroom stall walls.
What I want to know is, why couldn't *I* see the butt? Was I too splineless to figure it out? Just call me PAthetic.

[Susan Gable]

Guys! Gals! This is so cool. :)

Now I am looking for people willing to go on camera to speak against PA who are from...
PENNSYLVANIA and WASHINGTON.

This thread is moving way too fast and I haven't read any of it since yesterday, but please don't let this get lost. It's important. If you know an unhappy PA'er from either state, please write to me ASAP!

Sheryl is from PA! Go, Sheryl!!! Sheryl, email Jenna ASAP!

Susan G.

[CaoPaux]

Lola, is a vanity bookstore a place that has mirrors up everywhere? Ohh, never mind, that is an adult bookstore. Get those mixed up all the time.Hmm, never seen any mirrors in adult bookstores (strictly research, I swear! :tongue) Lots of beaded curtains, though. And security cameras.

<serious> Perhaps they were trying to distinguish bookstore venues from supermarkets, et al? </serious>

[WhisperingBard]

What I want to know is, why couldn't *I* see the butt? Was I too splineless to figure it out? Just call me PAthetic.

Did you try the link in Ed's post? If so, then refresh your screen when you get there. Maybe that will do it.

[Dolan]

Think of the meaning of this: My PA author pals are posting the most incredible crap. Bodily functions, curses, words with no meaning and now porn and nothing happens.

I was, forever, banned for posting the following words: James D. Macdonald.

[Sheryl Nantus]

Sheryl is from PA! Go, Sheryl!!! Sheryl, email Jenna ASAP!

Susan G.

pushy broad.

*chuckles*

you'd think she was an author or something...

:scared:

[Kevin Yarbrough]

Hmm, never seen any mirrors in adult bookstores (strictly research, I swear! :tongue) Lots of beaded curtains, though. And security cameras.

<serious> Perhaps they were trying to distinguish bookstore venues from supermarkets, et al? </serious>
You must not be going into the high scale stores Cao.

Tried to refresh the link that Ed posted and still no butt, Bard.

Dolan, maybe if there had been a picture of a butt along with Uncle Jims name then you might not have been banned.

[reph]

Sheryl is from PA! Go, Sheryl!!! Sheryl, email Jenna ASAP!

Susan G.
Susan, I see the initials "PA" under your name. Which PA would that be?

[DaveKuzminski]

In my inbox this morning was the usual smattering of "Local Author Publishes Book" articles from across the country from PA authors. Nine times out of ten they usually don't say anything at all about the publisher but an article that appeared today in the St. Paul Pioneer Press (http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/local/states/minnesota/counties/dakota/11189121.htm) had this to say:


Shares the royalties? My, oh my! That explains why the PA royalties are so low. Besides keeping their profit, they're sharing in the royalties.

Hmmm, must be why they call themselves a traditional publisher. ;)

[Moondancer]

I hate to say it, but this thread is starting to sound like it belongs on PA, minus the poor grammar of course.

Rob :Ssh:

Perhaps, but we're only human, too and that was just too good to pass up... I'll now go back to my normal ever so serious posts. (at least in this thread)

[Susan Gable]

Susan, I see the initials "PA" under your name. Which PA would that be?

I am from the "traditional owner" of the initials, PA, not the "traditional publisher" who hijacked my state's initials. <G>

PA as in Pennsylvania. But Sheryl is FROM PA and has been "done" by the other PA. LOL. Since I haven't had anything to do with the "other" PA, I didn't volunteer for Jenna's need for media spokespeople. (Unless she wants a non-PA author from PA. Then I will volunteer.)

(Hey, Sheryl, who you callin' pushy broad? <snicker> Okay, okay, you know me too well, but did you have to tell everyone HERE? <G> Everyone here thinks I'm a meek, mild-mannered, soft-spoken romance writer. LOL. )

Susan G. :D

[Moondancer]

Probably not the best photo for a teacher to post on the Internet.

She's a teacher? :eek:

[Sher2]

Did you try the link in Ed's post? If so, then refresh your screen when you get there. Maybe that will do it.
I think I saw a butthead or two, but no butt. I think I need to speak to my boss about a new monitor so I'm not deprived of soft porn at work. I have rights.

[CaoPaux]

You must not be going into the high scale stores Cao.There are high-scale stores? Would they have real fur lining in -- erm -- nevermind. :D

[JennaGlatzer]

Okay, listen up!

Anyone who is willing to speak out against PA on camera (as a PA author, ex-PA author, or author advocate who's published through commercial publishers), please make my searching a little easier.

In your profile, where it asks for location, please put your home state. No abbreviations. (In other words, please spell out West Virginia, South Carolina, etc.) Then, when I'm looking for "spokespeople," I can do a search of these boards by location so I know who to write to.

I plan on having this happen more often. I'd rather not have to run around putting out search calls every time if I can avoid it.

Oh, and Sheryl, write me! :poke:

[AnneMarble]

I was, forever, banned for posting the following words: James D. Macdonald.

Imagine the reaction if your "bannable" post had included a glamour shot of James D. Macdonald in his skivvies.

*Anne ducks and runs *

[Canada James]

folks, I don't care how good your book is - if you don't spell your posts correctly in the public eye, you're going to look like an illiterate and bad writer, to say the least.

Anyone recall what happened when I suggested a spell checker on the PA boards?

Good times .... good times.

C. James

[T42]

Anyone recall what happened when I suggested a spell checker on the PA boards?

Good times .... good times.

C. James
Do we have a spell checker here because I could sure use one? :Lecture:

[AC Crispin]

I'm still collecting names for Phase Two. They are trickling in slowly.

I really hope we can make a go of this, folks. I know it's tough, and frustrating, but if we give up, the situation will NEVER CHANGE and PA WILL WIN.

Please consider that if you're a recent PA author and are hesitant to become involved.

Incidentally, your info will be kept confidential within Writer Beware. Ask anyone who participated in Phase One...not even those who became involved knew who the other people were.

-Ann C. Crispin

P.S. Speaking of contests, I am running one right now on my website. If you are a fan of classic rock music, you might want to take a shot at it.

It's www.accrispin.com (http://www.accrispin.com/)

[CaoPaux]

Anyone recall what happened when I suggested a spell checker on the PA boards?

Good times .... good times.

C. JamesGood gracious, I remember. :Headbang:
That kerfluffle was what inspired your "disclaimer", yes?

[NancyMehl]

Imagine the reaction if your "bannable" post had included a glamour shot of James D. Macdonald in his skivvies.

Oh, lord. I'll never be able to sleep again..... :scared:

Nancy

[Sheryl Nantus]

Oh, lord. I'll never be able to sleep again..... :scared:

Nancy

ah, but then we'll know the answer to the ultimate question:

boxers or briefs?

:banana:
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

[realitychuck]

Think of the meaning of this: My PA author pals are posting the most incredible crap. Bodily functions, curses, words with no meaning and now porn and nothing happens.

I was, forever, banned for posting the following words: James D. Macdonald.Blasphemy is always treated more harshly than mere obscenity. :tongue

[NancyMehl]

ah, but then we'll know the answer to the ultimate question:

boxers or briefs?

:banana:
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

there are some things in this world that should always remain a mystery.... :Huh:

Nancy

[Ed Williams]

....12,000 posts for this thread, which should be duly noted and solemnly appreciated.

For all you ladies speculating on whether it's boxers or briefs for Uncle Jim, let me add a third category that maybe y'all haven't thought about: neither. :Wha:

On a much more serious note, I just got an email from someone who is currently connected with PA who says there is a pretty serious rumor going around that Larry and Curlem may be considering putting PA up for sale before, in her words, "...it's too late to get anything substantial out of it." Got no more details than that, and my source must be kept secret, but that be the scoop....

[Canada James]

Good gracious, I remember.
That kerfluffle was what inspired your "disclaimer", yes?

Ha, ha, yes it was. It was also what got me a "Raspberry Award" by some obscure Internet site for "most useless thread on the 'Net".

By the way, if anyone *wants* the spell checker (it tacks onto your web browser) PM me. (I can also link you to a better browser than Firefox/Explorer. Mine doesn't have any pop-us ... ever. Not even on the old board when y'all were complaining about them.)

C. James

[Jaws]

For all you ladies speculating on whether it's boxers or briefs for Uncle Jim, let me add a third category that maybe y'all haven't thought about: neither.
Aye, laddies (and ladies), w' a name like "Macdonald," p'rhaps he'll attend the next PA convention wearin' a kilt to allow you to check?

[Savannah Blue]

Sheryl is from PA! Go, Sheryl!!! Sheryl, email Jenna ASAP!

Susan G.

All riiiiiight! Go Sheryl, go Sheryl, go Sheryl! :hooray:

[Sheryl Nantus]

For all you ladies speculating on whether it's boxers or briefs for Uncle Jim, let me add a third category that maybe y'all haven't thought about: neither. :Wha:



*swoons*

tease...

[Eowen]

Aye, laddies (and ladies), w' a name like "Macdonald," p'rhaps he'll attend the next PA convention wearin' a kilt to allow you to check?

**Digs out the shoes with mirrors on the toes**

[Jaws]

Good Morning All,
I just got a confirmation from the mail service that my letter was signed for at PA. Now what I would like to know and maybe you can answer this Jaws if they don’t respond after accepting the letter for termination and continue to ignore me are they breaking the contract in anyway? It is really going to PMO me if they can just get away with ignoring people but it will just give me more grounds to make a public nuisance of myself.
I'm sorry, I can't answer that. You're not my client; and this isn't the right forum, even if you were.
An attorney who offers no-kidding-specific-to-the-situation legal advice in a public forum is risking disbarment. Commentary adapted to a general set of facts is about as far as one can go in public. Legal advice is, in that sense, kind of like sex: You need to know your partner, and you need to do it in private.
And if the speculation on Yog's choice of undergarments hasn't turned your stomach, that image certainly should.

[Sheryl Nantus]

All riiiiiight! Go Sheryl, go Sheryl, go Sheryl! :hooray:

:scared:

*hides under bed*

there has GOT to be someone here from Pennsylvania more versed than I am in such things as public relations...

*sound of crickets chirping*

anyone?
anyone?
Bueller?

:faint:

[Kevin Yarbrough]

Imagine the reaction if your "bannable" post had included a glamour shot of James D. Macdonald in his skivvies.

*Anne ducks and runs *
Can we get "I'm with the banned" skivvies? I would like a pair of those. I would also want it to say "PA, kiss these" on the front.

[Savannah Blue]

:scared:

*hides under bed*

there has GOT to be someone here from Pennsylvania more versed than I am in such things as public relations...

*sound of crickets chirping*

anyone?
anyone?
Bueller?

:faint:

You get out from under that bed this minute young lady and march yourself to that computer and write to Jenna. And don't you even think about doing anything else until that letter is done, you hear me? <Okay?>

Seriously, I do think you'd be a fine spokesperson for all of us, Sheryl. (Don't make me turn this into a love fest now, lol.) I trust you to tell the absolute truth about Pimp America and what they have done to all of us.

[KellyS.]

Anyone recall what happened when I suggested a spell checker on the PA boards?

Good times .... good times.

C. James

I think I remember you now. Did you start a post about it that turned into a huge argument? I'm racking my brain as to who was your main opponent. Did Kevin jump in on it?

KellyS.

[DaveKuzminski]

The important thing to remember is that PA can do nothing to you for telling the truth. They can dispute it, but the truth will not change.

So, stand your ground. Face them and tell PA and the world just what PA is.

[Kevin Yarbrough]

I think I remember you now. Did you start a post about it that turned into a huge argument? I'm racking my brain as to who was your main opponent. Did Kevin jump in on it?

KellyS.
Yeah I did jump in on it Kelly. *Shakes head in shame* I know, now, where James was coming from. We've all learned some things since then.

[T42]

I'm sorry, I can't answer that. You're not my client; and this isn't the right forum, even if you were.
An attorney who offers no-kidding-specific-to-the-situation legal advice in a public forum is risking disbarment. Commentary adapted to a general set of facts is about as far as one can go in public. Legal advice is, in that sense, kind of like sex: You need to know your partner, and you need to do it in private.
And if the speculation on Yog's choice of undergarments hasn't turned your stomach, that image certainly should.
Thank you Jaws for getting back to me and I appreciate the honesty, especially about the sex :Thumbs: Okay, you all have a great day...it's nap time :sleepy:

[Sher2]

Thank you Jaws for getting back to me and I appreciate the honesty, especially about the sex :Thumbs: Okay, you all have a great day...it's nap time :sleepy:
Dang, Mem, does everybody have sex on the brain today? I know it's the second day of spring. Did somebody do some kind of fertility rites?

[JennaGlatzer]

Phooey. I trust Sheryl to be a faboo spokesperson, too, but I just heard from the reporter and she's not in the right area.

"We cover the entire Delaware Valley which includes not only the Philadelphia, PA area, but also South Jersey and the Wilmington, Delaware region."

PLEASE write to me if you're in any of those areas! My e-mail is jg @ jennaglatzer.com (remove spaces).

[Kevin Yarbrough]

Legal advice is, in that sense, kind of like sex: You need to know your partner, and you need to do it in private.

What fun is that Jaws? I have sex in public all the time. It's more thrilling. Every time I go to a bookstore and try and get them to stock my book I have sex, cause I know I will get it in the patootie because of PA's policies.

PA- master literary sodomists

Jenna, Dianna is in Jersey. She's my Jersey girl and I'm her Ben (insert Afflac goose here).

[Through The Looking Glass]

(Woah! Please don't ever do that again. This has nothing to do with PublishAmerica.)

[KellyS.]

Yeah I did jump in on it Kelly. *Shakes head in shame* I know, now, where James was coming from. We've all learned some things since then.

I didn't mean anything by it. I was just trying to figure out if I had the right one. I think I posted in it as well. I was just coming to erase that out of my post as I didn't want you to take it wrong. I got distracted. Sorry about that.
Kelly

[NancyMehl]

Aye, laddies (and ladies), w' a name like "Macdonald," p'rhaps he'll attend the next PA convention wearin' a kilt to allow you to check?

Who said lawyers had no sense of humor????? :eek:

Nancy

[Kevin Yarbrough]

No need to Kelly. I should have appologized to James about that long ago. No worries.

[Galoot]

Imagine the reaction if your "bannable" post had included a glamour shot of James D. Macdonald in his skivvies.

http://i154.exs.cx/img154/492/moddown6ex.gif

[NancyMehl]

http://www.publishamerica.com/images/photos/paulapb.jpg (Picture: PublishAmerica's Messsage Boards)

Paula B Papapetrou / Teacher


Edward L. Kelly, Ph.D., (http://www.pwcs.edu/admin/super/superbio.htm)
Superintendent of Schools (http://www.pwcs.edu/admin/super/superbio.htm)
703-791-8712
Email (pwcssupt@pwcs.edu): pwcssupt@pwcs.edu


Not sure why this was posted here...but I hope no one thinks we're supposed to do anything about it.

This reminds me of the attack on C.E. Winterland from the Mindsight board. Posting someone's work info is way out of line.

I would like to see this removed.

Nancy

[CaoPaux]

Er, Through The Looking Glass, I hope you are not implying we should call the school board. That is NOT professional behavior, by any stretch of the imagination. :Lecture:

[DaveKuzminski]

Paula B Papapetrou / Teacher


Edward L. Kelly, Ph.D., (http://www.pwcs.edu/admin/super/superbio.htm)
Superintendent of Schools (http://www.pwcs.edu/admin/super/superbio.htm)

If you think her photo is in bad taste, write to her, not her employer.

[Kevin Yarbrough]

Not sure why this was posted here...but I hope no one thinks we're supposed to do anything about it.

This reminds me of the attack on C.E. Winterland from the Mindsight board. Posting someone's work info is way out of line.

I would like to see this removed.

Nancy
Me too. I know Paula and even though she is a, somewhat, supporter of PA she is still a nice person. Posting someones work info is not a good thing to do.

[KellyS.]

Thanks for pulling that.

[NancyMehl]

Thank you, Jenna. I was trying to delete my post at the same time you were deleting it. I shouldn't have quoted the original post. I didn't think about it at the time.

Posting someone's personal info is highly inappropriate. I'm glad it was removed.

Nancy

[CaoPaux]

Thanks for pulling that.Jenna: Fastest arbiter of taste on the Cooler. :guns:

[Ed Williams]

...and move on. This thread is used to detail information about PublishAmerica, the most bottom feeding publisher in the entire world. And sure, in the process of producing that information we have fun at times, horse around, and there's nothing wrong with that. A little levity can actually help sell the point sometimes better than recitations of facts can - it takes both to effectively get the word out. On the other hand, there's lots wrong about detailing out someone's work information here. Paula did nothing to warrant that - think what you will about the pic she's posting on the PA boards, it still doesn't warrant us displaying her work information. That's plain wrong, and does nothing to help the cause we're championing...

[Sheryl Nantus]

Phooey. I trust Sheryl to be a faboo spokesperson, too, but I just heard from the reporter and she's not in the right area.

"We cover the entire Delaware Valley which includes not only the Philadelphia, PA area, but also South Jersey and the Wilmington, Delaware region."

PLEASE write to me if you're in any of those areas! My e-mail is jg @ jennaglatzer.com (remove spaces).

dang... and I'm just south of Pittsburgh.

can't really do THAT commute, ya know?

come on, folks... there's got to be someone else in that area...

:hi:

[JennaGlatzer]

No prob. That was way over the line.

And now I'm closing this thread for 10 minutes so people will read my post before it gets lost in the hyper-speed posting!

I am looking for PA authors, ex-PA authors, and author advocates who are willing to be interviewed to speak out against PA on-camera for TV stations.


Currently, I am looking for people in the following areas:


- Delaware Valley, which includes the Philadelphia, PA area, South Jersey and the Wilmington, Delaware region.

- All of Washington state

PLEASE write to me if you're in any of those areas! Pass this message to others you think might be interested. My e-mail is jg @ jennaglatzer.com (remove spaces).

ALSO...

No matter where you live (as long as it's in the US), if you are a PA or ex-PA author willing to speak out about your experiences, please e-mail me. All I need from you is your e-mail address and where you live. Include your phone number or website address if you like, but it's not necessary.

I'm going to make a list so I can refer to it every time a media outlet contacts me. This way, I'll know exactly where I have "spokespeople" and where I don't.

[JennaGlatzer]

OK, ya buffoons, I opened it back up. ;) But that doesn't mean it's time to stop contacting me! I've heard from very few people. Please don't be shy. Don't think that you're not a "good enough" example... if you're unhappy with PA, you're a good enough example! All I'm looking for is people who can speak about their own experiences and talk about what PA does that's harmful, or different from what you expected (like-- they don't get books into bookstores, they overprice the books, they don't edit, etc.).

Write to me, tell me where you're from, and become a hero. :)

[Kevin Yarbrough]

[QUOTE=Ed WilliamsOn a much more serious note, I just got an email from someone who is currently connected with PA who says there is a pretty serious rumor going around that Larry and Curlem may be considering putting PA up for sale before, in her words, "...it's too late to get anything substantial out of it."[/QUOTE]

Maybe they will sell PA to Travis Tea. I saw him again today. He was getting gas in front of me and Elvis was the gas jockey. When I got out and walked over to them I heard something about writing a biography. I think Travis is going to write Elvis's biography.

On a serious note. I think we should all get together and buy PA if they sell it. Just think how rich we could become.:ROFL: Show them how a real publisher should do things.

[CaoPaux]

*pant, pant* We can post again? Whew, that was close. I was starting to get withdrawal symptoms: sweaty palms and thoughts of Jaws wearing Jim's undies. Yeesh! *shudder*

[victoriastrauss]

I know of authors (published by major NYC prseses) who often give away copies of their own books to fans. Most of them see it as a form of marketing. For example, they'll run a contest, announcing it on various and sundry lists, give away free copies of their books (and sometimes other things as well, such as gift baskets) to the winners, announce the winners on-line, and then maybe even ask the fans who entered if they want to get their newsletter.I run a regular contest on my website with book giveaways. For The Burning Land I'm still working off the publisher's freebies, but once those run out I'll buy a case at my author discount (50%, I think). It's a form of self-promotion, and also lets me get/keep in touch with readers. I also like to have copies on hand to give away to family and friends and nice people I meet who express an interest.

Another difference between commercially published authors who occasionally buy their own books and PA authors: The commercially published authors don't re-sell the books. In fact, they're forbidden to do so by their contracts. Commercial publishers usually have clauses in their contracts specifically prohibiting authors from re-selling books.

- Victoria

[Kevin Yarbrough]

*pant, pant* We can post again? Whew, that was close. I was starting to get withdrawal symptoms: sweaty palms and thoughts of Jaws wearing Jim's undies. Yeesh! *shudder*
I know Cao. I let Jenna know this as well.

Jenna, if I didn't like you so much I would send the cops to your house. Cruel and unusual punishment is illegal you know. I think I will print off this page and circle the spot where you said you were shutting us down for ten minutes. I will then circle the post where you opened it back up. That was longer than ten minutes. I will keep it just in case I need to send it to the police. Maybe they can come by in the middle of the night with the evidence in hand like they did with me, tell you to "get things right" with me in a week or they will arrest you for deceptive practice.

I'm watching you girlie.:Wha: :wag:

[Savannah Blue]

dang... and I'm just south of Pittsburgh.

can't really do THAT commute, ya know?

come on, folks... there's got to be someone else in that area...

:hi:

So, I guess asking you to move would be taking it too far, huh? :gone:

[Moondancer]

On a serious note. I think we should all get together and buy PA if they sell it. Just think how rich we could become.:ROFL: Show them how a real publisher should do things.

They'll overprice it by at least 5,000,000... they seem to like overpricing things by 5s, you know.

[Galoot]

I run a regular contest on my website with book giveaways.I entered last week. You know you don't have to choose the winner at random, right?

[Christine N.]

:scared:

*hides under bed*

there has GOT to be someone here from Pennsylvania more versed than I am in such things as public relations...

*sound of crickets chirping*

anyone?
anyone?
Bueller?

:faint:

Hey, Diana, where are you?? You'd be great for this. Me, I live in this market, but a) I'm not a PA author, and b) I'm still not all that mobile.

The whole Uncle Jim underwear thing - reminds me of a Barq's commercial. The guy who says he's clairvoyant?

Boxers? Briefs? Commando?

[Kevin Yarbrough]

They'll overprice it by at least 5,000,000... they seem to like overpricing things by 5s, you know.
That's all right. We can just charge an extra $50 bucks on each book.

[Moondancer]

That's all right. We can just charge an extra $50 bucks on each book.

True... *puts on a thoughtful look while crunching numbers in her head*

[KellyS.]

If we buy it, I will not be the new Moe-randa! lol

[JennaGlatzer]

I think I will print off this page and circle the spot where you said you were shutting us down for ten minutes. I will then circle the post where you opened it back up.

:D Sorry. The power got to my head. I kind of enjoyed thinking about all the people trembling and sweating, waiting for me to reopen the thread.

I'm still amazed that so few people have written to me. Why, people, why? Is it a fear of PA? A fear of going on camera? Still thinking you're not a good enough example? 'Splain this to me so I can tell you how silly you are and that you should write to me immediately.

[Canada James]

I think I remember you now. Did you start a post about it that turned into a huge argument? I'm racking my brain as to who was your main opponent. Did Kevin jump in on it?
KellyS.

Hopefully Jenna won't shut things down before I repost this.

Yes, that was me. My main opponents were Amo, Kevin and HB. Funny thing was, none of us were on the same side on that two-sided argument. It was really quite funny.

And Kevin, no need to apologize. I think you and I have paid penance for our past mistakes.

C. James

[bluwinteryfox]

I'm still amazed that so few people have written to me. Why, people, why? Is it a fear of PA? A fear of going on camera? Still thinking you're not a good enough example? 'Splain this to me so I can tell you how silly you are and that you should write to me immediately.

To show everyone I'm not afraid, I sent Jenna an email. I'm afraid to speak out in front of 10 or more people :faint:, I'm willing to talk to a reporter about my experience. So come on, send her an email and tell her you'll help out.

Let's send Jenna so many emails that her server shuts down due to too many emails.

[T42]

:D Sorry. The power got to my head. I kind of enjoyed thinking about all the people trembling and sweating, waiting for me to reopen the thread.

I'm still amazed that so few people have written to me. Why, people, why? Is it a fear of PA? A fear of going on camera? Still thinking you're not a good enough example? 'Splain this to me so I can tell you how silly you are and that you should write to me immediately.Jenna, I think it's just finding someone who lives in the area. If you would do it in Texas I think you would have plenty of willing people...location, location, location... :Sun: :wag:

[James D. Macdonald]

It's still early, Jenna. Give the folks who log on after supper a chance to reply.

(Guys -- if you've never dealt with the media -- they're really good at making talking with them a painless experience. They put you at ease. The consumer advocates are friendly, compassionate, charismatic, and professional.)

[Sher2]

If we buy it, I will not be the new Moe-randa! lol
Who will be the new Moe-randa? And for that matter, the new Larry and, God forbid, Curlem? Should we hold elections, with promises to the winners that we'll change their names and won't do evil things to them? ;)

[JennaGlatzer]

Ah! But Mem, there was this part of my post:

No matter where you live (as long as it's in the US), if you are a PA or ex-PA author willing to speak out about your experiences, please e-mail me. All I need from you is your e-mail address and where you live. Include your phone number or website address if you like, but it's not necessary.

I'm going to make a list so I can refer to it every time a media outlet contacts me. This way, I'll know exactly where I have "spokespeople" and where I don't.

--
When I did this with my NBC affiliate, it was quick, painless, and even fun. Low-key. Just the reporter and a cameraman, and they came to my house.

I plan to continue contacting media sources, and it'll help me if I know I have a few good "spokespeople" in an area to recommend to the reporters. Otherwise I run into situations like the one we're in right now: two reporters ready to do the story, but they can't do it unless we find them some local people to interview.

Remember that it's not live TV, so you don't have to worry about saying anything "stupid." It all gets edited (unlike PA books. Ba dum bum, ching!).

[T42]

Who will be the new Moe-randa? And for that matter, the new Larry and, God forbid, Curlem? Should we hold elections, with promises to the winners that we'll change their names and won't do evil things to them? ;) :hooray: Pick Me! :hooray: Pick Me! :Hail: Please Pick Me! Hey Sheri girl you came in just in time to say goodbye...okay :hi: :gone:

[T42]

Oh, I'm sorry I missed that one Jenna. I am having a hard time keeping up with this post:( You shall have my letter tomorrow.

[Sher2]

:hooray: Pick Me! :hooray: Pick Me! :Hail: Please Pick Me! Hey Sheri girl you came in just in time to say goodbye...okay :hi: :gone:
Goodbye? What, are you going somewhere or are you kicking me out? Listen, I think that if we're going to do things right, we have to do them right. That means there has to be a primary first. Get your name on the ballot and then we'll talk. Hint: I can be bribed. :ROFL:

[T42]

Goodbye? What, are you going somewhere or are you kicking me out? Listen, I think that if we're going to do things right, we have to do them right. That means there has to be a primary first. Get your name on the ballot and then we'll talk. Hint: I can be bribed. :ROFL: I'll give you my one and only green square! How did you get two little missy? Did you bribe Jenna? Now I really have to go....and I am not putting my name on any list!:crazy:

[T42]

Your Mean Sheri Girl!

[akaa1a]

Quote From Ed Williams post:

"there is a pretty serious rumor going around that Larry and Curlem may be considering putting PA up for sale before, in her words, "...it's too late to get anything substantial out of it." Got no more details than that, and my source must be kept secret, but that be the scoop....

Here's a riddle for you all...
So, how many publishing house owners does it take to book one-way passage to the Caymans?
3...
One to make the reservations
One to pack the "spline" and music for "prancing"
And one to open the off-shore bank accounts with undisclosed royalties.

I crack myself up!

[Ed Williams]

...y'all have it all wrong on the selection of the new Moe-randa, Larry, and Curlem. We'll simply go by who has the least experience running a publishing company, it worked for them, it can work for us. With that in mind, Kev and I are naturals for two of the slots, and for the one remaining, Sherry, we can talk bribes with you whenever you like. After all, with ethics like that you'll fit right in there with "The Kevster" (this is an officially trademarked name, contact me for rights leasing privileges) and I....

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/natur/nature-smiley-015.gif

[T42]

...y'all have it all wrong on the selection of the new Moe-randa, Larry, and Curlem. We'll simply go by who has the least experience running a publishing company, it worked for them, it can work for us. With that in mind, Kev and I are naturals for two of the slots, and for the one remaining, Sherry, we can talk bribes with you whenever you like. After all, with ethics like that you'll fit right in there with "The Kevster" (this is an officially trademarked name, contact me for rights leasing privileges) and I....

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/natur/nature-smiley-015.gifButt Kissers...I'm really outa here!

[Kevin Yarbrough]

...y'all have it all wrong on the selection of the new Moe-randa, Larry, and Curlem. We'll simply go by who has the least experience running a publishing company, it worked for them, it can work for us. With that in mind, Kev and I are naturals for two of the slots, and for the one remaining, Sherry, we can talk bribes with you whenever you like. After all, with ethics like that you'll fit right in there with "The Kevster" (this is an officially trademarked name, contact me for rights leasing privileges) and I....

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/natur/nature-smiley-015.gif
All right Ed, if you are goingto make me I will be Miranda....but I WILL NOT WEAR ANY DRESSES, GARTER HOSES, HIGH HEELS, OR THONGS. Sherry, guess that makes you Meiners. You will have to shave your head of course.

As for the trademark Ed, you can use it as long as I get my eight percent. I would like the money bianually in the months of Feb and August. Plus, I don't want to hear no dang 30-90 day grace payment period either.

Don't worry Mem. You can be one of the 30 or so editors runing around the townhouse.

Canada James, you are right. We have paid our dues. Just felt I needed to say that though.

[AnneMarble]

Who will be the new Moe-randa?

Maybe the winner of the first annual Absolute Write Idol Competition? Or maybe that would be the prize for the person who comes in last place. ;)

To truly connect this with PA, Jamie Farr can give away the prize.

[Kevin Yarbrough]

:D Sorry. The power got to my head. I kind of enjoyed thinking about all the people trembling and sweating, waiting for me to reopen the thread.

I'm still amazed that so few people have written to me. Why, people, why? Is it a fear of PA? A fear of going on camera? Still thinking you're not a good enough example? 'Splain this to me so I can tell you how silly you are and that you should write to me immediately.
Like Jenna said, "Why, people, why? Is it a fear of PA?"

Don't fear PA people. They went after me, and it was bogus. Just as bogus as they are. They can't do anything to you. If it's PA you are worried about, don't.

Jenna, on the other hand. I think people are scared of going on tv. It probably wouldn't be easy for the ones that have never done it before to just sit there and talk to a reporter knowing that they will be on tv. I know my biggest fear would be saying or doing something that makes me look stupid and all those people seeing it. I mean, come on, how would you feel if you are sittng there and all of a sudden you break wind? Not a small, left cheek sneak that just smells, but a loud, goose honking fart that resonates (love that word) throughout the room?

[writerjenn]

Okay, I realize that this is the definition of a spline, but it sounds just plain ol' smutty in a horizontal bop sorta way. OTOH, it may just be my sick mind. I think Publish Anything actually produces splines, not spines because they managed to get the shafting part down to a science.


I love it when you talk dirty.

:roll:

[Sher2]

I'll give you my one and only green square! How did you get two little missy? Did you bribe Jenna? Now I really have to go....and I am not putting my name on any list!:crazy:
Mem, you have to be patient. These things take time -- one box at a time. And I'm not telling you whether I bribed Jenna. I'm about to become a politician, after all. I'm entitled to my secrets. Oh, FYI, I'm not mean, either, and I will expect your apology immediately for taking that surly tone with me. I'd do it fast, too, if I were you. I'm about to shave my head. I will own you and your pretty little dog, too, soon. :roll:

You know what, I think I need some of that special tea you have in your bag of tricks.

[Kevin Yarbrough]

Better yet Mem, since you got the tone down to a science you can be the AST. Any takers on the Infocenter?

[Sher2]

...y'all have it all wrong on the selection of the new Moe-randa, Larry, and Curlem. We'll simply go by who has the least experience running a publishing company, it worked for them, it can work for us. With that in mind, Kev and I are naturals for two of the slots, and for the one remaining, Sherry, we can talk bribes with you whenever you like. After all, with ethics like that you'll fit right in there with "The Kevster" (this is an officially trademarked name, contact me for rights leasing privileges) and I....

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/natur/nature-smiley-015.gif
By jove, I think we've got a plan. Just what kind of bribe did you have in mind? Because I have to tell you, if The Kevster wants me to shave my head, it's going to take some extra perks. I don't really think I need to go to that extreme -- as far as I know, The Moe-randa has hair. Then again, if I shave my head, I could quite possibly enjoy an extreme power trip and practice some psychology. Lord, Lord, my head is already swelling up. Maybe I'd better just be the girl.;)

[Sher2]

Better yet Mem, since you got the tone down to a science you can be the AST. Any takers on the Infocenter?
I vote for Mem to be the new LogoHead! She might delete posts and talk nasty to us, but she'll force us to enjoy it. :partyguy:

[DeadlyAccurate]

Message:
Today, I got my $1.00
I showed my daughter, who giggled a bit. Until I explained that the $1.00 is symbolic.
It is the symbol for future book sales...it is the symbol of my personal ability to turn a dream into a reality.
It is also a symbol of my publisher's confidence that my book will sell.
I am looking forward to the rest of this process, and I am working on book #2.

Reading this made me sadder than the rejection letter I got today did.

[Sher2]

I think people are scared of going on tv. It probably wouldn't be easy for the ones that have never done it before to just sit there and talk to a reporter knowing that they will be on tv. I know my biggest fear would be saying or doing something that makes me look stupid and all those people seeing it. I mean, come on, how would you feel if you are sittng there and all of a sudden you break wind? Not a small, left cheek sneak that just smells, but a loud, goose honking fart that resonates (love that word) throughout the room?
Kevin, just tell me when your gig is and I'll go on and pretend to be you. I've been on TV before, didn't barf, break wind, black out or anything. After it's over, the reporter will send you a nice little note telling you what a well-mannered person you are. They might not even remember that "you" were wearing a dress and had an unusually high voice. :tongue

[Sher2]

Maybe the winner of the first annual Absolute Write Idol Competition? Or maybe that would be the prize for the person who comes in last place. ;)

To truly connect this with PA, Jamie Farr can give away the prize.
Anne, do you think he'd do it for a dollar? If we can even scrape up one -- I think most of us have already blown them.

[Diana Hignutt]

Jenna,

You have mail!

diana

[T42]

Mem, you have to be patient. These things take time -- one box at a time. And I'm not telling you whether I bribed Jenna. I'm about to become a politician, after all. I'm entitled to my secrets. Oh, FYI, I'm not mean, either, and I will expect your apology immediately for taking that surly tone with me. I'd do it fast, too, if I were you. I'm about to shave my head. I will own you and your pretty little dog, too, soon. :roll:

You know what, I think I need some of that special tea you have in your bag of tricks. Kevin and Miss Sheri, I decided I am nominating myself for Moe-Randa.:idea: I think that I spell worse then you, my grammar stinks and I am more then willing to share my royalties with the others. I’m not sure that you would. I am also willing to put the authors dollar in a savings account for them with no interest. I think that I am more suitable for the job, clothes wise. (Then Kev)Kevin, I know that I gave you a rep point saying okay, but I take it back. :wag: That makes me even more qualified for the job because I can lie too….Speaking of rep points I am probably the only person on this board with a negative. That makes me a strong candidate. (I shouldn’t have gotten it though because the person brought me a box of Kleenex to my pity party and I already had my own!):cry: I’m also TONE deaf and I never apologize! Sheri, I have some Tea:Coffee: that will make your hair grow back when you shave it and we already have the picture of you below so your ready to go. So if your gonna go....git! Now, I have to go find the brownies and take a nap. Really!:sleepy:

[CaoPaux]

Reading this made me sadder than the rejection letter I got today did.Aye. That dollar is a symbol of precisely the opposite of what s/he thinks it is. :(

[T42]

I vote for Mem to be the new LogoHead! She might delete posts and talk nasty to us, but she'll force us to enjoy it. :partyguy:I insist on a paper hat then! Make it out of dollar bills please!:roll:

[Sher2]

Kevin and Miss Sheri, I decided I am nominating myself for Moe-Randa.:idea:
Well, if you're going to take THAT tone...
I think that I spell worse then you
How do you know? I can spell bad when I have to. And no, I'm not telling you just when that would be.
I am more then willing to share my royalties with the others. I’m not sure that you would. I am also willing to put the authors dollar in a savings account for them with no interest.
So you say now, but you'll be a politician by the time they come in again. You'll have to hand over some little token of good faith, Miss. And I want to be copied on the savings account statements.I think that I am more suitable for the job, clothes wise.
Why? What does a Moe-randa wear? I have some cute things. Oh -- are you saying Moe-randas don't do cute? Hmmm.Sheri, I have some Tea:Coffee: that will make your hair grow back when you shave it and we already have the picture of you below so your ready to go. So if your gonna go....git!
You're doing that tone thing again. Tone-deaf ain't no excuse. Just give me the tea. I know you have some of that herbal stuff that has all kinds of weird effects. That's the one I want. Oh, and I don't know who you're trying to fool -- that's YOUR picture.
Now, I have to go find the brownies and take a nap. Really!:sleepy:
The hell, you say! You get back here. If I can stay awake past dark, so can you.

[robeiae]

What I don't get is this: reviewing the PA boards, it seems clear that some of these folks have got a clue... right now, there is a thread about a "marketing opportunity" that some authors believe to be a scam

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/8377.htm

They have even identified (rightly) some red flags indicating this fact. Yet they don't see the red flags all around them! Is it wholly a matter of pride? It's like saying "all polliticians are crooks, except for the ones I voted for." Are these people as unreachable as PA authors? Then again... considering some of the boneheads that have been elected into Congress, I may have answered my own question.

If the majority of PA authors are unreachable :Headbang: , perhaps even Jennna's efforts will be in vain. Nothing will bring them down, short of a court order.

Rob

[DaveKuzminski]

Sorry, but you're all over-qualified to become the new Larry, Curlem, or even Moe-randa. Secondly, none of you are evil enough, although I am. However, I'm over-qualified, too. Consequently, that means the only individuals who could possibly replace Larry, Curlem, and Moe-randa are (drum rollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll). H.B. Marcus, F.E. Mazur, and Joyce Rapier! ;)

[JennaGlatzer]

Hey Rob!

Well, the media stuff isn't meant to target current PA authors. It's meant to serve as a warning to new authors who may be considering going with PA. If it helps some current PA authors wake up, that's great, but I know that many of them will just look for ways to discredit it.

[Sher2]

Sorry, but you're all over-qualified to become the new Larry, Curlem, or even Moe-randa. Secondly, none of you are evil enough, although I am. However, I'm over-qualified, too. Consequently, that means the only individuals who could possibly replace Larry, Curlem, and Moe-randa are (drum rollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll). H.B. Marcus, F.E. Mazur, and Joyce Rapier! ;)
But Dave, the whole idea is to CLEAN IT UP. I don't know about you, but I'm willing to take evil lessons from Moe-randa before they haul her off to Camp Cupcake. Which I'd have to learn if I'm going to work with -- gulp -- the above-named. The whole rationale for CLEANING IT UP is, of course, so nobody has to. Give the new regime a chance. Shoot, it's just PA -- nobody has to be qualified. :banana:

[pepperlandgirl]

Reading this made me sadder than the rejection letter I got today did.

Me too :( Poor woman.

[victoriastrauss]

Posting this again at Ann's request:

-----------------------------------------------

Several months ago I started a project with PA authors who were currently on the Absolute Write boards. It involved doing nothing illegal, immoral or fattening. (Ask Victoria Strauss, my partner in running Writer Beware.)

I asked PA authors who are unhappy to write to me. I organized the project, and there are some signs that it has a beneficial effect in getting the news out about PublishAmerica.

I'm now going to start phase two of the The Project.

So...if you are a brand-new PA author who has just joined the AW this year, or if you are one of the "old faithful" who doesn't mind wading back in for Round Two, OR if you are a writers' advocate who doesn't like seeing his or her fellow writers scammed and jerked around, please write to me.

I will be collecting email addresses for about two weeks, then you will be hearing from me, approximately April 1st. I'll write you a detailed letter describing just what to do.

It's your choice then whether you want to be part of the The Project, Phase Two.

My email address is: anncrispin@aol.com (anncrispin@aol.com)

Also, please cc Writer Beware, because aol can be wonky! beware@sfwa.org (beware@sfwa.org)

I learned a lot from Phase One. I have a few new wrinkles for Phase Two.

If you want to be part of this, write to me. Feel free to copy and past this post in other writer forums.

Thank you for your attention.

-Ann C. Crispin
Chair, SFWA Committee on Writing Scams
Writer Beware
Author: Storms of Destiny/HarperEos
www.accrispin.com (http://www.accrispin.com/)

[Dolan]

Anyone notice that little tattoo on Miss ?s left thigh? PA RULES That is an example of the new advertising campaign. They paid a dollar for that.

But on the other hand, if the negative was reversed, the tattoo is actually on her right thigh and was printed backward. So it really can not be read.

Gives me a great idea for marketing my book. I will tattoo the cover of my book on my face. Bookstore mangers will jump at the chance to stock it. They will even pay me to hang around the store showing off my face. Folks, now this will work!

[JennaGlatzer]

Thank you, thank you!

Brave people coming out of the woodwork now.

Keep it coming.

The more people I have who are willing to speak, the more I can do to make sure that stories warning people about PA appear on "every TV set across America, from sea to shining sea."

[KellyS.]

Who will be the new Moe-randa? And for that matter, the new Larry and, God forbid, Curlem? Should we hold elections, with promises to the winners that we'll change their names and won't do evil things to them? ;)

Since I don't want to be Moe-moe, who can I be?

Ooooh, we need armed guards too.

[Moondancer]

Er, Through The Looking Glass, I hope you are not implying we should call the school board. That is NOT professional behavior, by any stretch of the imagination. :Lecture:

Not only unprofessional it could land the person in jail. There's no saying that's really the person in that photo. She may have posted it to impress someone or for a dare or any number of reasons but it may not even be her in the pic.

I've seen worse. I guess being an internet fossil has some perks.

[DaveKuzminski]

Anyone notice that little tattoo on Miss P's left thigh? PA RULES That is an example of the new advertising campaign. They paid a dollar for that.

Like I stated before only to be deleted, if anyone finds that photo in bad taste, complain to her, not to her employer.

For her sake, I hope it's temporary. It could be very expensive getting it off later if it isn't. :(

[KellyS.]

Better yet Mem, since you got the tone down to a science you can be the AST. Any takers on the Infocenter?


I think you mean InfoHelmet, don't you?

[KellyS.]

By jove, I think we've got a plan. Just what kind of bribe did you have in mind? Because I have to tell you, if The Kevster wants me to shave my head, it's going to take some extra perks. I don't really think I need to go to that extreme -- as far as I know, The Moe-randa has hair. Then again, if I shave my head, I could quite possibly enjoy an extreme power trip and practice some psychology. Lord, Lord, my head is already swelling up. Maybe I'd better just be the girl.;)


Susan Powder of PA? Wait, I think she had some hair. Sinead of PA?

[Moondancer]

Better yet Mem, since you got the tone down to a science you can be the AST. Any takers on the Infocenter?

I can't do the Infocenter... the logic that is used boggles me to the point I would never be able to emulate it.

[Literary Lola]

Message:
Today, I got my $1.00
I showed my daughter, who giggled a bit. Until I explained that the $1.00 is symbolic.
It is the symbol for future book sales...it is the symbol of my personal ability to turn a dream into a reality.
It is also a symbol of my publisher's confidence that my book will sell.
I am looking forward to the rest of this process, and I am working on book #2.
Screw symbolism, give me the friggin' bucks. If a buck is a symbol of her publisher's confidence her book will sell, she must be planning on selling half a book. Pass the PA bong, please...

[Sher2]

Screw symbolism, give me the friggin' bucks. If a buck is a symbol of her publisher's confidence her book will sell, she must be planning on selling half a book. Pass the PA bong, please...
Yeah, the whole happy-happy idea of doing a Snoopy dance over that silly dollar is getting old. The only thing it's symbolic of is a good old-fashioned screwing.

Lola, we lost the bong the other night. Remember? ;)

[Sheryl Nantus]

Thank you, thank you!

Brave people coming out of the woodwork now.

Keep it coming.

The more people I have who are willing to speak, the more I can do to make sure that stories warning people about PA appear on "every TV set across America, from sea to shining sea."

just poking this to keep it fresh.

come on, folks... if *I* can get up the courage to go on TV, you can.

Pennsylvanians, unite! You have nothing to lose but your... er... dollar?

:ROFL:

and I promise personal security if you need it... and pay my travelling expenses... and at least one brekka at IHOP or Eat'n'Park...

[Dolan]

I'm three green reps from having a double green box. I'm just sweating bullets here.

Can't work, can't sleep, can't eat. Well, actually, I can sleep and eat.

[DaveKuzminski]

I'm three green reps from having a double green box. I'm just sweating bullets here.

Can't work, can't sleep, can't eat. Well, actually, I can sleep and eat.

Now, now, Dolan. Let's not get too excited. Remember, there are all these Moe-randa wannabes out here just itching to prove they can be evil. Next thing you know, you'll be at a minus 3. Bwahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa! ;)

Larry creep. Larry creep.

[James D. Macdonald]

First, I want to be InfoCenter. You want to know what I'm wearing? InfoCenter can tell you.

If I can't be InfoCenter, can I head the Author Insult Team?

(Personal for Ed and Kevin: How come all the chicks are wondering about my skivvies, but they're sending y'all the photos of themselves in their skivvies? It ain't fair!)

Next -- you know what? If one buck symbolizes your publisher's confidence that your book will sell, they don't have a whole lot of confidence.

[Ed Williams]

....over on the PA boards, just like a stack of wax sandwiches over there. Think about it, there are no:

1. Multi-author signings scheduled. I guess the Holiday Inn extravaganza got nuked, sure no mention of it at all these days.

2. More titillating pics, the one in question earlier today has been removed.

3. Declarations that PA is the greatest thing since sliced bread, even better than all the free ICEEs a person could drink.

4. More major postings from any of the most ardent PA backers.

5. Conventions or conferences scheduled, remember the infamous one from last year? Or their attempt to fleece their followers at Key West?

6. Mentions of the Independence Books imprint.

7. More counters to just about anything we say or do here.

Pretty interesting, doncha think?

[ZaZ]

Can I be Corporal Klinger?

[Canada James]

Well, the media stuff isn't meant to target current PA authors. It's meant to serve as a warning to new authors who may be considering going with PA. If it helps some current PA authors wake up, that's great, but I know that many of them will just look for ways to discredit it.

Jenna, if I can come around anyone can. The problem with those in PA is that for them to "wake up" is for them to have their dream crushed.

It's not easy starting again.

(Or accepting that you don't know even a smidgen of what you thought you did.)

C. James

[Ed Williams]

...the man! No one makes me laugh out loud anymore than you do, I can just look at that avatar and know that something of quality is about to leap out before me eyes....

:roll: :ROFL: :snoopy:

P.S. Uncle Jim, just be glad there's all that curiousity, last time so many people wondered about what kind of underwear a guy was wearin' he got elected President!

[DaveKuzminski]

Jenna, if I can come around anyone can. The problem with those in PA is that for them to "wake up" is for them to have their dream crushed.

It's not easy starting again.

(Or accepting that you don't know even a smidgen of what you thought you did.)

C. James

You're quite correct. However, the good news is that there are several fine places such as AW where they can recover, learn, and start over with correct information and folks who are truly supportive. So, it's better that the dreams get broken now while there's still time to heal.

[Sher2]

Pretty interesting, doncha think?
It's probably the calm before the storm, the time just before critical mass when everything goes pale gray and all the air is sucked out of the atmosphere. Or maybe they're just bored.

[Dolan]

Sure, I'm a sad, depressed PA author who's marketing efforts get me thrown out of bookstores. I never, never should have used violence on the teenage clerks. It just didn't work like I thought it would.

But I have received my second green box, thanks to my expert marketing plan, here. One might call it begging but it works, folks. I am STARDUST! I am GOLDEN! I've got to get back to the garden

[reph]

What I don't get is this: reviewing the PA boards, it seems clear that some of these folks have got a clue... right now, there is a thread about a "marketing opportunity" that some authors believe to be a scam... They have even identified (rightly) some red flags indicating this fact. Yet they don't see the red flags all around them!
Possibly some PA authors have learned that obvious complaints about PA will be removed and the writers banned. They're speaking subtly to stay under the radar and hoping some listeners will get the message.

[reph]

Uncle Jim, just be glad there's all that curiousity, last time so many people wondered about what kind of underwear a guy was wearin' he got elected President!
Not so fast, there. Remember what happened after that: the nation's attention turned to his intern's underwear.

As a parody (not by me) goes, "The thong is ended, but the malady lingers on."

[JennaGlatzer]

I would like to be the new PA accountant, Janet Morrisey.

My qualifications: I know absolutely nothing about accounting. Or math.

[Sher2]

I would like to be the new PA accountant, Janet Morrisey.

My qualifications: I know absolutely nothing about accounting. Or math.
Impeccable qualifications! You're hired. You do realize that you also have to be the office manager? :banana:

[Sassenach]

Just call me 'Vice President, Resonance'

[Uncarved]

I'd like to be the executive translator.... on the platform that I am fluent in no other languages and barely fluent in my native tongue.

Speaking of tongue, Ed where's the piccy of you in Your skivvies:)?

[Dolan]

Can I be the thug at the new PA?

[akaa1a]

May I be the Hospitality Director? I promise that peanut butter and brocolli sandwiches with a side of emaciated prime rib will be served at every convention with lukewam coffee and melted ice cream!

Should be a hoot...and a challenge that I am up for!
Please..please...please!

[Ed Williams]

I would like to be the new PA accountant, Janet Morrisey.

My qualifications: I know absolutely nothing about accounting. Or math.That's the very thing that would disqualify you, you're admitting you have no knowledge of the field. From what I've seen over at PA, you literally have to be oozing ignorance of knowledge, you have to flaunt it and resonate it all over the company. You have to take a certain tone with everyone that reports to you directly, or who writes for you, whether they write drama, romantic fiction, or whatever their literary escapade is. It's the only way to be successful running a traditional publishing house, and dear, sweet Jenna, you are just too knowledgeable of your lack of knowledge for this particular position.

And for those of you wanting shots of me in swimsuits, underwear, or even in the buff, it's too late. There was such a demand for the specifics on Uncle Jim's underwear usage habits earlier today that it's obvious that I am but a mere second choice, an underling to the true sex symbol of this thread. I'm going to defer any future potential posing in briefs or worse to Uncle Jim, the true Fabio, now and in the future, for this thread...

[JennaGlatzer]

Too late, Ed! Sherry already hired me!

But if I really must know all about a position, I'll be Leah Baird, assistant acquistions editor, because I know ALL ABOUT acquiring stuff and assisting. I've been acquiring pewter fairies for a very long time, which can't be very different from acquiring books, and I have assisted old ladies who were crossing streets. I'm very assistful.

[Dawno]

If by chance you're looking for a Human Resources person I have extensive background in HR, including every Catbert cartoon Scott Adams ever drew in a nice scrapbook organized by appropriate HR topic.

[NancyMehl]

First of all, I covet the real power job at PA. I want to control the delete button on the forum!!!! If someone complains about Jim's underwear...POOF! They're gone! One word about Jenna's lack of accounting qualifications....WHOOSH! They disappear! And any negative comments about Ed in general (I mean, there are so many things to choose from) and BOFFO! They're deleted!

Wow. I feel drunk with power! :banana:

As far as the TV thing....I am a little burned out by the whole idea. First of all, I'm in Kansas. We barely have TV here. (Grin) Recently, I was contacted by the producer of the Aaron Brown Show on CNN. They wanted to interview me about the BTK serial killer. Since I lived in Wichita in the 70's when he terrorized the city - and I am an author - they thought I would be someone good to interview. Frank Buckley called me and asked if he could come over to my house on a Sunday night. I sat and waited for several hours. Finally, he called and said that it was just getting too late. He asked if he could come the next afternoon. I said okay. The next day I waited and waited. One of the guys who worked with him called late in the afternoon to tell me the show had "gone another way" and wanted to know if I knew anyone who had purchased a security system in the 70's because of BTK. (Like I was supposed to do their investigative work!) Long before he called, I'd had enough. So, I'm not real big on being interviewed by TV people at this point.

I used to do on air book reviews for the local NBC affiliate in Wichita - and to be honest, I like doing reviews for the newspaper a lot more. TV is not my favorite medium.

That being said, if I, as a "former" PA author can ever do anything to help, Jenna, I'll do whatever I can, but I have to admit that I'm not overly excited about doing anything on air. :(

Nancy

[Galoot]

I wan't to be one of teh PA editers okay? Im really good, at speling, adn grammer, and stuuf.

[lindylou45]

[QUOTE=robeiae?

Seriously though, I become depressed now whenever I visit the PA boards.

The question is: when will we see it actually be criminal?:confused:

Rob[/QUOTE]

I don't ever go to the PA boards anymore. I haven't for a long time. I know if anything interesting is said I'll hear about either here or from some of my friends. Why put yourself through it if it depresses you? Just leave it alone for a while.

You don't think it's criminal now? Withholding royalties, selling books after they have released the author, harassment? To some it is actually criminal, it seems, however, that those in power (MDAG, MD Gov, etc.) just don't care.

[lindylou45]

....the New Three Stooges, Moe-randa, Larry, and Curlem, want their authors to feel good about themselves while they themselves want their wallets to feel good. That's the definition of true happiness in the Merry Olde Land of Poz...


P.S. I have contributed a ditty on the Take It Outside Board, may Don McLean take pity on my wretched soul...

Sorry Ed, I guess I'm just cynical today. :faint:

I know! I've said it once, but I'll say it again -- You, sir, are the GOD of POD! :Hail:

[lindylou45]

[QUOTE=JDElder] But I guess I'm having a hard time finding the "f-word" in this- fraud.

How about false advertising? Misleading information/implied promises on their website? Or maybe deceptive practices? When I signed with PA their website looked A LOT different than it does now. They promised on their website line-by-line editing. Now Larry Clopper says they only copy edit. Their website said that my book would be "stocked" in brick and mortar bookstores. Now their website says they will be "available" and suddenly there is a cautionary note -- stating that because the book is "available" it doesn't mean it will be "stocked" -- that was not there when I signed. Why should Authors Guild be concerned about the publisher their authors use? Because it's like standing behind that publisher, and in this case, they would be standing behind a fraud -- a scam -- whatever term you want to use.

They are the worst of the worst and I'm hoping they get what's coming to them. A little time at Club Fed! :Lecture:

Okay, I'm off my soapbox now -- lesson learned, don't get her started! :Soapbox:

P. S. Congratulations on your wedding. (Here's snoopy dancing at your wedding). :snoopy:

[KellyS.]

Yeah, the whole happy-happy idea of doing a Snoopy dance over that silly dollar is getting old. The only thing it's symbolic of is a good old-fashioned screwing.

Lola, we lost the bong the other night. Remember? ;)


Are we insinuating something here, hmmmm..... I do NOT have said bong.

[KellyS.]

<snip>I'm going to defer any future potential posing in briefs or worse to Uncle Jim, the true Fabio, now and in the future, for this thread...

Fabio??? blech

Hey I saw on a show recently where he was on a rollercoaster and got nailed in the face by a bird. I don't know how old the news was, but how often does that happen?

Back to posts that actually mean something.

[KellyS.]

May I be the Hospitality Director? I promise that peanut butter and brocolli sandwiches with a side of emaciated prime rib will be served at every convention with lukewam coffee and melted ice cream!

Should be a hoot...and a challenge that I am up for!
Please..please...please!

I think you would have to eat it in front of everyone with nothing to share for it to work. lol Then again, you could always pull the fire alarm.

[reph]

What does a publisher normally do for you, the author? These excerpts from "Publishing, Except Software" (U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, Career Guide to Industries, online) say what. I'll underline selected parts to show what you can expect from a traditional publisher that you won't get from a vanity press.

"Although the content and formats may vary, most publishers follow similar steps to produce their publishable material. First, editorial departments must acquire the content, or material, to be published. Some publishers have a staff of writers, reporters, and editors who research and write articles, stories, and other text for the publications. Photographers and artists are also brought in to supplement the stories with photos and illustrations as needed. Other publishers purchase their material, which may also include photos and artwork, from outside sources, mainly independent “freelance” writers, photographers, or artists. When this is done, the publishers obtain the legal right to publish the material from the content providers prior to publication. After the story or article is written, the manuscript is reviewed to check that the information it contains is accurate and then edited to ensure that it uses correct grammar and a writing style that is clear and interesting. Editors and publishers develop captions and headlines and design the pages and the covers....

"Publishers’ publicity, marketing, and circulation departments are responsible for promoting a publication and increasing sales and circulation. Book publishers, in particular, promote new books by creating elaborate publicity campaigns involving book signings and public appearances by the author.

"Getting the publication to the readers is a function of the distribution department. Major book publishers often have large warehouse operations, where books are stored and from which they are delivered as needed."

The full article is at http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs013.htm

[lindylou45]

[QUOTE=Ed Williams
P.S. Susan, if you want to read a true tale of romance, something that resonates, just go right here:

http://www.ed-williams.com/sally.html[/QUOTE]

All righty then! :flag:

[JDElder]

[QUOTE=JDElder] But I guess I'm having a hard time finding the "f-word" in this- fraud.

How about false advertising? Misleading information/implied promises on their website? Or maybe deceptive practices? When I signed with PA their website looked A LOT different than it does now. They promised on their website line-by-line editing. Now Larry Clopper says they only copy edit. Their website said that my book would be "stocked" in brick and mortar bookstores. Now their website says they will be "available" and suddenly there is a cautionary note -- stating that because the book is "available" it doesn't mean it will be "stocked" -- that was not there when I signed. Why should Authors Guild be concerned about the publisher their authors use? Because it's like standing behind that publisher, and in this case, they would be standing behind a fraud -- a scam -- whatever term you want to use.

They are the worst of the worst and I'm hoping they get what's coming to them. A little time at Club Fed! :Lecture:

Okay, I'm off my soapbox now -- lesson learned, don't get her started! :Soapbox:

P. S. Congratulations on your wedding. (Here's snoopy dancing at your wedding). :snoopy:


Don't worry. I've been known to climb up on a few soapboxes myself.

I'm a big believer in the concept of what comes around, goes around, karmatic justice, or whatever you want to call it. A house of cards will only stay upright for so long before it gets knocked down. At the very least, these guys are guilty of adopting a business model that is very unhealthy and unadvantageous for me, the author, in terms of quality control, editing, gaining widespread exposure, and seeing my book in a bookstore.

I get the whole thing about professionalism and presentation. After the AP article came out, I reread my author copy, nearly had a stroke, and ended up going back and reediting the book myself. And no, I wasn't very happy and I made it transparently clear to PA that I wanted these screw-ups fixed. And they did. If the book is half as good as I hope it is, it's because I stayed up half the night one evening going through it with a fine tooth comb to catch all the mistakes- all 73 of them. And that's why I'd rather see it judged on the merits and not who the publisher is. Because for better for worse, the final product is the result of my efforts and perseverance- not PA's.

That $1 advance did come in handy when I drove to work the next morning and needed the toll money.

I'd do the whole scivvies thing except for the fact that 1) I'm not THAT desperate for attention and 2) it'd just gross everybody out.

When I get back next week, it's back to business and writing novel #2.

[lindylou45]

UNLESS SHERYL AND I ARE MISTAKEN - the word is SPINE!!!!
Nancy

I'm sure you're right, but the question -- "Is there such a word as spline?" -- was asked and answered.

[Alphabeter]

I want to be the Acquisitions Editor.

I have loads of time to completely read submissions, reject 80% of them, and issue contracts to those over 18 with the properly edited and formatted manuscripts.

And I will reply to all of my email in a timely manner.

I also have friends with badges should anything fraudulent attempt to occur.

[lindylou45]

On a serious note. I think we should all get together and buy PA if they sell it. Just think how rich we could become.:ROFL: Show them how a real publisher should do things.

We could all kick in our advance. :partyguy:

[lindylou45]

[QUOTE=JennaGlatzer]No matter where you live (as long as it's in the US), if you are a PA or ex-PA author willing to speak out about your experiences, please e-mail me. All I need from you is your e-mail address and where you live. Include your phone number or website address if you like, but it's not necessary.

Jenna, I sent you a private message.

I've talked about my experience so much on the internet it certainly won't bother me. I'm in Kansas, very close to Kansas City, Missouri.

[lindylou45]

Better yet Mem, since you got the tone down to a science you can be the AST. Any takers on the Infocenter?

I want Janet Morrisey's job! :banana:

[lindylou45]

I would like to be the new PA accountant, Janet Morrisey.

My qualifications: I know absolutely nothing about accounting. Or math.

Oh shoot! I wanted that job! Can we share?

[lindylou45]

[QUOTE=NancyMehl]I'm in Kansas. We barely have TV here. (Grin)

Why does everybody hate Kansas so much? :Shrug: It's Bob Dole, isn't it? :Ssh:

[Diana Hignutt]

Hey, I was busy volunteering for the Philly news thing...I missed all the good jobs at our new and improved PA.

Well, I could always be Author Support ... I hear you don't have to do too much to fill that position-I can ignore phone calls and emails like the best of them.

Oh, dear Kevin, yes, I'll always be your jersey girl, just don't do that insurance duck thing again...
diana

[Fractured_Chaos]

[QUOTE=NancyMehl]I'm in Kansas. We barely have TV here. (Grin)

Why does everybody hate Kansas so much? :Shrug: It's Bob Dole, isn't it? :Ssh:

Nah! It's because it's still in black and white! :wag:

*drgn dives under the couch before she can get swatted with the broom*







(I spent 25 years in Kansas...I figure I'm entitled)

[Ed Williams]

...we findeth the following quoteth from Mr. Clopper, coming from an article whose link I shall posteth later:

Publishamerica's Clopper said he understands author's frustration when they are trying to publish a book and get rejected.

"I tell them they are in very good company. Mark Twain was rejected, Shakespeare, Dr. Seuss's work was rejected and he was told it was bizarre," he said.

Clopper founded the publishing company in 1999 after he could not get his own work published by any mainstream publishers. "They did not think there was a commercial market for it," he said. "I wrote two books and I could not get them published for a couple of years. I took a course on publishing and self-published, printed and bound one book. I met with Random House and ultimately I had failed."And this beith the man who many have entrusteth their publishing futures to....

You may findeth the entire article here:

http://www.gazette.net/200511/gaithersburg/news/264855-1.html

[cwgranny]

I would like a job in the new PA empire...I want to be Royal High Keeper of the PA Dictionary...the one where we redefine all publishing terms to mean whatever we want to that we can argue the rightness of our cause...

POD -- Petite Orange Ducks, as in "We are in no way POD, and we will never be POD. We wouldn't even eat POD."

tone -- reasonable argument made by ticked off person we screwed, as in "Don't use that tone with us!"

I'll have the dictionary bound at Kinkos and everything. Maybe we can sell one to each new author. We'll call it "promotional material" since one of the new definitions of promote is "way we can separate authors from even more money."

gran

[Ed Williams]

....in positions with the New PA, here's a position opening anyone here can apply for.

Position Opening: Director of Cigarette Money Investment

Position Description:

Advises authors on where to best invest royalty earnings from the New PA. Special attention is given to penny stocks, lottery tickets, and, in the case of our high earners, $2 dogtrack betting slips.

Position Qualifications:

The ability to Lie On Demand.

The ability to make $1.06 royalty payouts resonate in the author's pocket.

The less education you have, the better, as it gives you more excuses to use when said authors castigate you for such crummy royalties.Please send your resume to this email addy: ed3@ed-williams.com (ed3@ed-williams.com) Bribes and anything a good lookin' woman is willing to offer will count heavily towards our final decision.

Good luck!

[underthecity]

...we findeth the following quoteth from Mr. Clopper, coming from an article whose link I shall posteth later:

You may findeth the entire article here:



So I checked out this article. The headline says "Author e-publishes book on Bradys."

"E-publishes?" I thought it was POD, not POD. Or was it POD, not POD?

I wasn't aware that PA did e-publishing.

underthecity

[T42]

Miss Sheri,
You are a VAMP. I come back and you are taking over! Kissing :kiss: Miss Jenna’s butt, just giving her any ol’ job she wants. :eek: Handing out positions like ugly on an ape. This is going to have to stop! Now, I have decided I want the activities directors job! I would like to decorate the townhouse and make it look :Fairydust more like a publishing company. Maybe we could throw up a few fancy printers, :Lecture: make it look like we print those books here. I would like to ad Tea :Coffee: to our breakfast bar so people have a choice and maybe see if Jenna would let us come on her TV show. I figure after words we could have a ho-down :banana: :Guitar: and invite the cute girl flashing her butt :thankyou: whata ya think? You will have to earn my special tea or give me a dollar in advance! :roll:

[T42]

Is that you underthecity? Your a cutie! You can be our new hostess with the mostess!

[realitychuck]

I want to be General Sales Manager, overseeing the vast PA salesforce as they tirelessly go to bookstores and buyers with the latest catalog and work to get get PA books stocked, so that the . . .

Oh, heck. My sarcasm generator blew a fuse.

[Moondancer]

Position Opening: Director of Cigarette Money Investment

Position Description:

Advises authors on where to best invest royalty earnings from the New PA. Special attention is given to penny stocks, lottery tickets, and, in the case of our high earners, $2 dogtrack betting slips.

Position Qualifications:

The ability to Lie On Demand.

The ability to make $1.06 royalty payouts resonate in the author's pocket.

The less education you have, the better, as it gives you more excuses to use when said authors castigate you for such crummy royalties.



Damn, I'm overqualified before I get through the first requirement and it just gets worse from there. :cry:

[Sher2]

Miss Sheri,
You are a VAMP. I come back and you are taking over! Kissing :kiss: Miss Jenna’s butt, just giving her any ol’ job she wants. :eek: Handing out positions like ugly on an ape. This is going to have to stop! Now, I have decided I want the activities directors job! I would like to decorate the townhouse and make it look :Fairydust more like a publishing company. Maybe we could throw up a few fancy printers, :Lecture: make it look like we print those books here. I would like to ad Tea :Coffee: to our breakfast bar so people have a choice and maybe see if Jenna would let us come on her TV show. I figure after words we could have a ho-down :banana: :Guitar: and invite the cute girl flashing her butt :thankyou: whata ya think? You will have to earn my special tea or give me a dollar in advance! :roll:
VAMP? Damn straight! But don't be callin' me no ho, now. You can decorate the townhouse to your heart's content, but no butt flashing. And don't be mixing up any Kool-Aid -- everybody's wise to that. I'd give you the dollar for some of that tea. Unfortunately, I spent it on fairy dust. Can I pay you next week?

[T42]

Where the heck are all the leaders when you need them? :Shrug: We got people coming in like flies to honey. Flies....where the heck did the bees go? You all just take a seat and we will have someone delete you asap!:Hammer:

[underthecity]

Is that you underthecity? Your a cutie! You can be our new hostess with the mostess!

T42, thanks for the compliment, but I'm a "he," so I would technically have to be the "host with the most." :heart:


underthecity

[Aconite]

If the book is half as good as I hope it is, it's because I stayed up half the night one evening going through it with a fine tooth comb to catch all the mistakes- all 73 of them. And that's why I'd rather see it judged on the merits and not who the publisher is. Because for better for worse, the final product is the result of my efforts and perseverance- not PA's.

But, you see, it still matters who the publisher is. You caught all the mistakes you could identify as mistakes. But authors are notoriously bad about missing things in their manuscripts, either because they're so familiar with them that they don't see them anymore, or because they thought they were correct the first time. (One example of that is in your post: "fine tooth comb." Another: your use of hyphens in place of dashes. See what I mean? If you think something's right, you don't mark it as a mistake.) That's where the publisher's editorial team comes in--editing, copyediting, and proofreading those manuscripts.

Plus, there are a lot of things about book design and layout that people who aren't familiar with the field simply don't think about, but which affect the reader's ability to physically read the book. Good publishers pay attention to the typeface, to the kerning of the letters and words in the books, to avoiding "rivers of white," and a bunch of other things that readers notice, but don't notice they notice, if you know what I mean. Those elements are what let you pick up a commercially published book and one printed directly from Wordperfect in Times New Roman with justified right and left margins and easily tell which is which. Trying to read a book with bad layout can be physically difficult. That doesn't change no matter how engaging the content of the book may be.

[T42]

VAMP? Damn straight! But don't be callin' me no ho, now. You can decorate the townhouse to your heart's content, but no butt flashing. And don't be mixing up any Kool-Aid -- everybody's wise to that. I'd give you the dollar for some of that tea. Unfortunately, I spent it on fairy dust. Can I pay you next week?It's about time you got to work! We only have room for a couple of Ho's in this company and you didn't get your picture up in time honey!
Yes, pay me next week! I lied....you don't get your dang Tea!

[Christine N.]

Jenna,

You have mail!

diana

You da woman! Make us S. Jersey girls proud :)

Darn, Joy, I want to be Acquisitions Editor. I can accept all ms's at the speed of a modem! Heck, I can read five pages and pass judgement just as well as the next guy. Good or bad, they all deserve a chance, right?

[T42]

T42, thanks for the compliment, but I'm a "he," so I would technically have to be the "host with the most." :heart:


underthecityWell sweetie, I know your a HE, that is obvious but since I'm the new activites director Moe-Randa says I can call anybody anything I want so please don't take that tone with me and I will expect an apology!

[underthecity]

Moe-Randa says I can call anybody anything I want so please don't take that tone with me and I will expect an apology!
Apologize? Apologize this! :guns:

T42, you always make me smile.

utc

[T42]

Apologize? Apologize this! :guns:

T42, you always make me smile.

utc:o Well, okay...then you can do anything you want! :Hug2: Your hired, I don't care what Miss Sheri says. Just ignore her! If she sends you a letter through the snail mail, ignore her.:Shrug: My advice, :Lecture: ignore her!

[T42]

I want to be General Sales Manager, overseeing the vast PA salesforce as they tirelessly go to bookstores and buyers with the latest catalog and work to get get PA books stocked, so that the . . .

Oh, heck. My sarcasm generator blew a fuse.:Lecture: Chuck, you do need to work on the sarcasm or you will never get this job! Get the whip out...that should do it!:whip: AND stay out of the PA thread where the "picture" is with that whip.

[Sher2]

....in positions with the New PA, here's a position opening anyone here can apply for.

[/color]Please send your resume to this email addy: ed3@ed-williams.com (ed3@ed-williams.com) Bribes and anything a good lookin' woman is willing to offer will count heavily towards our final decision.

Good luck!
Since there's obviously going to be rampant sexual harassment in the townhouse anyway, I'd like to hire some winsome cabana boys to hold fans, serve drinks, and whatever else might come up.

[Sher2]

:o Well, okay...then you can do anything you want! :Hug2: Your hired, I don't care what Miss Sheri says. Just ignore her! If she sends you a letter through the snail mail, ignore her.:Shrug: My advice, :Lecture: ignore her!
UTC, don't listen to Mem. She's just mad because my pic is cuter than hers. As a principal in the New PA, you can send me mail any time -- I'll ignore yours just as quick as I'll ignore anyone else's.

[T42]

Since there's obviously going to be rampant sexual harassment in the townhouse anyway, I'd like to hire some winsome cabana boys to hold fans, serve drinks, and whatever else might come up.I think that Ed should be in charge of the banana boys. :banana: Oh, cabana boys:confused: . I'm gonna need another brownie..maybe some tea