Archive of the NEPAT [Archive] - Page 19 - Absolute Write Water Cooler

DaveKuzminski

01-09-2005, 03:38 AM

If you should ever enter a URL to revisit a site only to find it's no longer there, you're not entirely out of luck. If it was there at least a week or longer, odds are that one of the Internet search engines categorized it. If so, you can still get another look at it.

Just go to your favorite search engine, such as Google, and enter some key word(s) you remember from that site. Then look at the results that come up in the search until you spot that site. Don't click on the link to visit it since you already know it's not there.

Instead, click on the Cache or Archive link that search engines like Google have. That will take you to a copy of that page. That should be enough for you to get a start on what you needed to find. Sometimes, the links within the cache will still work, so make sure you try those. If you find what you're looking for, you can then make a copy to your computer's hard drive so you won't have to worry about that cache copy disappearing, too.

This is one reason why many of PA's acts of deletion are useless when it comes to destroying evidence. They might deprive their authors of recent posts if they reach those in time, but postings that have been up too long will be archived beyond their reach.

unknownauthor

01-09-2005, 03:41 AM

Thank you for that information on finding deleted sites, I never knew!

DaveKuzminski

01-09-2005, 04:01 AM

Which causes me to wonder just how many sets of accounting books exist over at PA? Do you think that Willem and Larry actually trust each other fully? Do you think that Miranda might not be trusted after some of her recent admissions, such as the one regarding editing?

unknownauthor

01-09-2005, 04:09 AM

davekuzminski,
I'm sure you have probably done this, but I put info center in the google search and found one where they told someone on the message board that if they were going to buy 500 books to try to get a return policy that they should buy them from barnes and noble because it would get them a better chance to be put in bookstores...

Also typed in disgruntled authors looking for that info center crack about that.

XThe NavigatorX

01-09-2005, 04:15 AM

archive.org takes snapshots of (almost) every website on the net.

DaveKuzminski

01-09-2005, 04:45 AM

Even though there are archives and web site caches out there, we still have to list some of the more revealing discussions in this and other forums.

Why?

Because new writers won't know what to search for and those archives won't last forever. When we post important disclosures in this and other forums, we give new writers the critical information they need in order to decide whether they fit the marketing niche that PA is suitable for or not. After all, that's a small niche which only a small segment of writers will need.

By the way, I don't enjoy seeing the majority of PA's authors embarrassed, though I do find it hard to avoid smiling in some rare instances such as when HB calls us terrorists, yet his publisher wants copies of social security cards and drivers licences and one of PA's partners is from Europe. No, I don't post their words to embarrass them, but I will to warn and educate them and other writers.

James D Macdonald

01-09-2005, 10:07 AM

Uncle Jim, would you post your site that was mentioned. I am curious if I have visited. My age and my memory are fading fast! Tee hee

Beck, it's <a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm3.showMessage?topicID=257.topic" target="_new">Learn Writing wtih Uncle Jim</a>.

(And if it's true that 20 publishing powerhouses get 93% of all book sales, the take-home lesson for new writers should be "In that case, I'd better get one of those guys to publish my book!")

James D Macdonald

01-09-2005, 12:25 PM

How to get the attention of a legit publisher (after I get my rights back from PA, that is) when I’m almost certain that no real publisher (Secular or Christian) will accept what I’ve written even though so many have raved about it?

First, don't go rejecting your own work. That's the editor's job.

Second, write a new, better, different book. Sell that one. When the editor buys it, she'll say, "Do you have any others?" You pull out this other manuscript....

Timothy W Johnson

01-09-2005, 12:29 PM

Rebecca, Victoria:

Thanks for your support and advice—it’s as invaluable as invaluable can be. Here’s further explanation of what I’m saying, however.

Way back in 1997, when I had just finished with a short story collection that had taken me a couple of years to write, the thought hit me to focus all of my efforts on writing an epic novel that comprised the horror and fantasy elements that I cherished from childhood to adulthood.

Then in 2003, I submitted to PublishAmerica, the first part of what I basically ended up calling a hard-boiled supernatural, psychological, mystery & detective thriller. However, it doesn’t end there. In the second part of the story, there’s a quick transition to what I just stated, but then coupled with an epic dark fantasy adventure and war complete with your classical “Sword & Sorcery” duel.

In the beginning, it’s an engrossing, eerie mystery. Then, there are angels and demons, ghosts and goblins, vampires and druids, doppelgangers and a satanic doggie (wolf-like creature, actually). There are people that are murdered, use drugs, go insane, have nightmares, see visions, and travel through portals into other dimensions. And where does all this take place: In a small, fictional Florida town, in the year of 1995. But all of the above that I just mentioned is pretty much only going a little beneath the surface of this epic—there’s so much more involved. There’s a good deal of controversy as well—the kind of stuff that might make publishers uneasy about chancing such a story.

In a sense, though, you could even almost let a child read it. By that I mean: it’s free of profanity and vulgar slang words. Naturally, however, a child shouldn’t read it due to its very nature. But I’m digressing a little here…let me continue.

There’s also another reason why it might be unattractive to a publisher, though I can’t say in public on the grounds that it may incriminate me—though it really shouldn’t. I see no problem with it myself (and others may agree), but in this day and age, where everything is changing in the world (morals, political views, etc., etc.), there may be a problem with it. But as I said, I don’t think it would be a good idea to openly discuss it—even mention it for that matter.

I suppose it doesn’t really matter at the moment, though. PublishAmerica has it in their grasp. Hopefully—if all goes well—I’ll eventually be able to free my rights from those literary leeches. If not, then I’ll just have to write something else until the contract expires.

Here’s something else that baffles me, though. Why am I seeing a lot of strange mixed-genres coming out at the movies and on TV, but when it comes to books are practically being shunned (from what I’ve seen anyway) by so many legit publishers—mainly the biggest ones, I guess? Why is this? I realize that it makes it easier for publishers and bookstores to place those books in their own sections, and because it makes it easier to target certain audiences. However, what about those readers that love more than just the norm? I’m sure there’re many out there. Are there many…maybe I’m just dreaming?

Well, 4:00 A.M. comes early. I’d better get some rest; I’ve got a very long workday ahead of me.

Goodnight ya’ll,
Tim

XThe NavigatorX

01-09-2005, 02:14 PM

www.publishamerica.com/cg.../11445.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11445.htm)

Marti and HB talking about suing Dave.

Kate St Amour

01-09-2005, 02:51 PM

*Sigh* Attention: All Pro PA'ers
1) PA does not edit your book per industry standards. (Care to see my third set of proofs? They make an excellent argument.)
2) PA does not market your book per industry standards.
3) PA encourages authors to sell their own books (just like other vanity publishers).
4) Dee and Dave are not "the devil." PA does enough damage to its own reputation in the publishing industry, and to its authors who: thought they were getting published traditionally, yet ended up being printed by a sub-standard vanity press.

If all you want is to see your name in print and are willing to pay for it:
1)You have the option of doing a short- run print which is cheaper than buying large quantities of PA books.
2) You can always go to a vanity press (that actually edits).
3) You can use PA as a printer and be happy.

If you are planning on living off of your income as a writer (like I do), I don't' recommend PA as a printer to anyone that I care about (and I'm a tree-hugger so I care about just about everyone). You'll also notice that most of the posters here do not recommend PA. Note: Most of the posters here are highly successful writers and respected in the industry (unlike PA).

That being said:
This site helps many people, and the only ones "hurt" are those who are in denial. If you aren't planning on making a career of writing, what people say about your publisher shouldn't matter (unless you have a conscience and want to see them act in a manner consistent with what they promise authors on their website).

I'm going to bed now. Play nice.

D James

01-09-2005, 03:15 PM

"Second, write a new, better, different book. Sell that one. When the editor buys it, she'll say, "Do you have any others?" You pull out this other manuscript...."

Hey, that's what happened to me!

It went something like this:

Publisher: "So we have this book for this year. But what about next year? Do you have an idea for another book?"

Me: "Actually, I have another book written. Right now I'm working on what I'd like to see out in 2007."

Publisher: <big grin> "That's very good. Let's discuss what you have for me for next year."

Me: <bigger grin>

D James

D James

01-09-2005, 03:21 PM

Kate, I think I would phrase your arguments differently.

1) PA does only a spell-check on your book.
2) PA does not market your book. Period.
3) Publishers generally have a clause in their contracts forbidden authors to resell books bought at discount from the publisher. Can you guess why?
4) Dee's last name is "Power." And, from what I can tell, P&E has no money and won't net you much in a class action suit.

D James

DaveKuzminski

01-09-2005, 07:44 PM

Gosh, I actually missed that discussion between Marti and HB. Anyone get a copy of it? I want to see if they spelled my name right. ;)

I'll bet that not one of them voted for me as the most hated by PA. That's real gratitude for you when you think of all the things I've done for them.

Kate St Amour

01-09-2005, 08:22 PM

Doh! I should have saved it! Sorry, Dave.

James D Macdonald

01-09-2005, 09:13 PM

Gee, Dave, you just keep on makin' friends wherever you go, don't you....

DaveKuzminski

01-09-2005, 09:55 PM

Well, that was most illuminating. Marti, HB, and Rose, I'll gladly accept service if you think your master will permit you to expose PA in court.

By the way, Marti and HB, Rose didn't give you the whole story, did she? I mean, did she point out her previous message where she tried to tell others not to post in a topic devoted to warning about PA? No? For shame, Rose. That wasn't very nice of you.

Just in case, here's what you said in one posting:

HotHeadedBrunette

Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 276
Location: Canada
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 8:27 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cathi I did not curse at you and I apologize if you thought I did. damn it was used as my frustration to this topic and Dee and Dave according to Cathi it doesn't happen.

Again Dee and Dave I do not appreciate that everytime I state my exsperience my opinion that you add to it a negative comment about Pa.

I'm not sure how to put this in simple terms.

You have negative opinions and are unhappy with Publish America fine you have voiced it 100 times over.I respect that.

I am happy with Publish America.

Nothing you say will change my opinion of them why because it is my opinion of them .

Nothing I say will change your opinion of the service you received.

Now this will be my last post here.

I will not be back to post again. I have already posted my goodbye and thank you to everyone on W&W

I wish you all luck with your future success as a writer. I hold no feelings and once again I apologize Cathi if you felt I was cursing at you. It was not my attention.

My attention was more unless dam it on trying to say anything in this topic or damn it for my freedom to say what is on my mind.

again I'm sorry Cathi my damn it was not meant to offend and I'm sorry if I did.

Rose
_________________
Rose DesRochers is the Founder of www.todays-woman.net (http://www.todays-woman.net) a community where writers/poets/columnists meet. Are you looking for the best in custom website design visit her husbands website. www.invision-graphics.com/ (http://www.invision-graphics.com/)

vstrauss

01-09-2005, 09:57 PM

>>Why am I seeing a lot of strange mixed-genres coming out at the movies and on TV, but when it comes to books are practically being shunned (from what I’ve seen anyway) by so many legit publishers—mainly the biggest ones, I guess?<<

Tim, I think perhaps you haven't explored the market enough, or perhaps have been looking on the mainstream shelves in the bookstore...in the SF/fantasy/horror market, to which I pay most attention both as a reviewer as a reader, there are plenty of mixed genre books--for instance, Jim Butcher's Harry Dresden series, which freely mixes fantasy, hardboiled PI fiction, and horror elements. There are SF/crime hybrids, fantasy/mystery hybrids, and horror (a.k.a. dark fantasy) goes with just about anything. Have you read any Clive Barker? Try Coldheart Canyon if you want to read a pitch-dark mix of fantasy, horror, and reality which doesn't stint on the grotesque and the taboo.

Contrary to popular belief, editors are not only looking for cookie-cutter knockoffs of the Latest Big Bestseller; something new and different will snag their attention too (as long as it's publishable. That's the biggest "if" in the can-I-get-published sweepstakes, not mixing genres or dealing with controversial subjects).

As Uncle Jim and I both said, don't assume rejection if you haven't tested the market. It sounds (and forgive me if I'm wrong) as if PA was the only publisher you tried. If that's the case, you have no idea how your ms. might be viewed in the marketplace. What do you have to lose by trying?

As you say, though, right now it's a moot point since PA has the rights. If you get them back you can try submitting the book. In the meantime, follow Uncle Jim's advice: write another, better book, and submit that one.

- Victoria

vstrauss

01-09-2005, 09:58 PM

Rose keeps saying this will be her last post. Pray one day she keeps the promise.

- Victoria

DeePower

01-09-2005, 10:05 PM

Please send a copy of it to authors@brianhillanddeepower.com

My attorney will appreciate it.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

ProandCon

01-09-2005, 10:44 PM

Here you go, Dave. Marti had not posted when I saved this part of the thread last night.

From Rose
Message:
I'm so ticked off, Despite that the rules of a well known forum I post on state both sides are free to post their opinion I'm being told I can't post good things about PA in a topic warning people about PA and accused of being a PA troll by one of the I'm not happy with PA posters.My Good God as a Canadian I do believe my freedom of speech is being taken away.

From: DaveKuzminski
To: HotHeadedBrunette
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:50 pm
Subject: Re: Listen
Have you noticed, however, that you're trying to express your pro-PA opinion in a topic meant for warnings about PA?

It's not unusual for PA to send what we refer to as a troll to post such comments and other remarks in the warning topics in order to sidetrack the warnings. That's part of why we're posting there when you do. Whether you're a troll or not, we have to act so that other writers who do not know anything will know that there are problems with that company. If we don't post after you or a troll, unsuspecting people will then conclude that the problem was resolved and that everything is fine now.

I know this for a fact from running a writers' advocate site for nine years. New writers always tend to assume that all publishers are okay unless they find a current warning in place.

So, it's not anything personal against you, but there are serious problems with PA. We intend to see that those are not ignored until PA corrects its policies and treatment toward writers.

From HB:

Dave needs serious psychiatric help and something to do besides paying for websites to bash PA disguised as something to help writers.

I suggest a class action suit against that lunatic for damages incurred with his website. He has been harming the legitimacy of all titles from PA for years and I think it's time he got hit in the wallet for it.

Anybody with me? I've had enough and I won't wait for PA to put a stop to the nonsense. I'll do it myself.

XThe NavigatorX

01-09-2005, 10:49 PM

I have the rest of the thread saved, too. It's a little long, so I won't post it here, but I just sent it to Dave and Dee.

I wonder how PA would react if one of their authors did sue someone like Dave. I don't think Marti or HB would be pleased with their reaction.

Ed Williams 3

01-09-2005, 11:03 PM

.....use a vanity/contingency fee based lawyer to sue you with, or a traditional one? :D

I wouldn't lose too much sleep (and I know you won't). This is the same HB who's going into TV script writing, undertaking stand-up comedy, and who recently claimed that he had someone willing to back him financially re his writing. HB is sort of like the literary equivalent of the Loch Ness Monster, you keep hearing all the rumors, but when you look in the water you find nothing swimming around...

DaveKuzminski

01-09-2005, 11:06 PM

Thank you to everyone who furnished a copy.

I think folks like Marti and HB don't think it through with some of their remarks. After all, if PA wasn't afraid of a court battle, they wouldn't have gone to such lengths in their contracts to define that any arguments would be decided by an arbitrator. They also would have taken some kind of court action by now in order to shut down some of the sites opposed to them. Now they think that PA's going to let them start something among their authors that would lead to exposing their business practices in a real courtroom? Not very likely.

Ed, that's a riot!

D James

01-10-2005, 12:28 AM

"Rose keeps saying this will be her last post. Pray one day she keeps the promise."

I hope it won't. Sooner or later the honeymoon ends, and she'll need somewhere to go when the divorce proceedings start.

Rose, you're welcome here. I understand because I've been there.

Email me if you'd prefer.

D James

CaoPaux

01-10-2005, 02:23 AM

It might be up to Jenna to welcome Rose. She was banned a year or so ago for abusive posts and harassment via ez-mail, IIRC.

James D Macdonald

01-10-2005, 02:24 AM

I hope it won't.

I agree. As long as the lines of communication are open, and dialog is taking place, there's hope.

This is a religious position of mine.

BeckEaston

01-10-2005, 02:27 AM

Anybody with me? I've had enough and I won't wait for PA to put a stop to the nonsense. I'll do it myself. Now, who do you suppose put him up to that, Dave? Oh my. I had to lift myself quite literally off the floor. Free speech and all. Oh my goodness. I am laughing so hard. You see, I find this double-standard way of PA doing business almost so completely absurd that I can only but laugh to their ridiculousness. LOL...I'm sorry. It's just so darn funny!

For those who do not know, PA says blah blah blah on their web site and then they say, "you can't hold me accountable for that?!" It's like they want to be able to do whatever they feel necessary for a buck, but when someone who has absolutely NOTHING to gain financially from it, speaks the truth, well, then they get really pissed off. It's all not so funny and yet, as I walk to my next room to pick up my hamburger I just bought, I will be giggling. Shrugging my shoulders and scratching my head. There's no rhyme of reason for their actions. None at all.

vstrauss

01-10-2005, 02:30 AM

I was referring to a flamefest on another board (as, I believe, was Dave). As far as I know, Rose hasn't posted here.

- Victoria

CaoPaux

01-10-2005, 02:51 AM

It was back in 2003. She posted as swtdesrose and BubblesR, mostly in the poetry forum.

p197.ezboard.com/fabsolut...=194.topic (http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm14.showMessage?topicID=194.topic)

p197.ezboard.com/uswtdesrose.bannedPage (http://p197.ezboard.com/uswtdesrose.bannedPage)

p197.ezboard.com/ububblesr.bannedPage (http://p197.ezboard.com/ububblesr.bannedPage)

triceretops

01-10-2005, 03:23 AM

I just get the feeling that Publish America has to keep their writers penned up within a barb-wire enclosure, protecting them from the rest of the world. Within that little ranch, PA
feeds them doped up grain, soothes their woes, incites them when they feel threatened , and sings them lullaby's. Completely cut off from reality, they graze around with these happy maniacal expressions plastered idiotically across their faces. And PA wouldn't have it any other way. It's their creation, of course. We'll never reach those stupefied PA members, for their transformation has been complete. They
have now become the....

Stepford...Scribes.

Tri

DeePower

01-10-2005, 03:56 AM

The NBC affiliate in NY is interviewing a PA author who has had a negative experience in their studio tomorrow, so that story isn't quite wrapped up.

The Washington Post story is finished and gone to edit.

The Associated Press reporter is finishing up the interviews.

And the newspaper I haven't named yet will have the interviews completed mostly by the end of next week.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

DaveKuzminski

01-10-2005, 04:37 AM

I'm afraid that she's not going to be happy after tomorrow. Victoria, you should take a look at the Todays Woman site she operates. Pay particular attention to their rules of use, especially Section 7.

You can find those at URL www.todays-woman.net/dll....file=terms (http://www.todays-woman.net/dll.php?name=Legal&file=terms)

Actually, I should correct that to not being happy after today.

FM St George

01-10-2005, 04:43 AM

now ya got me curious, Dave...

*clears throat*

huh?

:\

Dhewco

01-10-2005, 04:52 AM

"I hope it won't. "

Uncle Jim: I agree.

D James and Uncle Jim agreed on something? That's rare, isn't it?

Kate St Amour

01-10-2005, 05:43 AM

"Section 7"
Ouch! Who would give up their rights forever-- for free? Yikes!

wurdwise

01-10-2005, 05:59 AM

Sounds like a government housing program.

Section 7

Rules: You stay forever
Location currently available: Oblivion, USA

Amie87

01-10-2005, 05:59 AM

This part of Section 7 also got my attention:

"You agree to grant to us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive right and license ... to create derivative works and compilations, in whole or in part."

Perhaps these comments about todays-woman.net should be pulled over into their own Bewares thread?

Amie

P.S. Hey, Cao. She has a third ezboard account under "woman0ntop". Yes, the zero in the name is correct. I know that one slipped by the banning because she used that name to write some nasty comments about me on a board. (Rose and I don't get along.)

DaveKuzminski

01-10-2005, 06:08 AM

By the way, I didn't find that Section 7 bit on my own. Someone at PA told me about it. I researched and found it was worse than they suggested. It's going to be posted as the first non-recommended workshop at P&E.

There's a lot of folks still at PA that are tired of being taken advantage of. Just that they haven't left yet.

Hey, HB and Marti, Rose is going to give you a kiss for me. I only asked her to say hello. I guess she wants to do some more creative fiction with what others say.

DeePower

01-10-2005, 06:44 AM

Read the last post

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Message
RoseD

1/09/2005
06:20:24
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Subject: Writing communities

Message:
I'm not sure if I can do this here however I own
a community for men and women over 18, where over 292 writers/poets/columnists meet and exchange ideas, contest, rate and review and help each other succeed in the writing industry.

Todays-Woman enables you to Showcase your work with bios, pictures, samples and contact info. The site is open to men to and I welcome any of my feelow PA authors to check it out. If you should decide to join just send me a note through feedback your from Pa.

Rose DesRochers
Founder and Administrator
of www.todays-woman.net (http://www.todays-woman.net)
Author of She is like the Wind

marti2003

1/09/2005
10:59:53

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp RE: Writing communities

Message:

Morning,

I just signed up. Sounds like a good one to join.
michellet

1/09/2005
11:23:55

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp RE: Writing communities

Message:
I think I joined this a few months ago, however, it apears you are required to write something every day, or you are told your membership will be cut. You receive emails ifyou don't post something regularly. I didn't like that.
Saundra Julian

1/09/2005
11:34:08

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp RE: Writing communities

Message:
Rose,
Went to your site and #7 in the terms and conditions bothers me...what exactly does that mean??

D James

01-10-2005, 06:56 AM

"D James and Uncle Jim agreed on something? That's rare, isn't it?"

Jim and I have had a mutual respect for one another since *almost* the beginning. We've agreed on some points, but not on others. Sometimes I think we're stating the same opinion just in different words.

D James

01-10-2005, 06:59 AM

Is Rose really not allowed to post here? If so, it isn't fair that we should be discussing her where she can't defend herself.

(And yes I know that she does that to others on the PA board. But if you want to be an Advocate, you have to lead by example.)

D James

D James

01-10-2005, 07:03 AM

As long as the lines of communication are open, and dialog is taking place, there's hope.

And it's more powerful to have someone on your side who was once a stalwart defender for PA, than it is to have those who were never in their clutches.

D James

DaveKuzminski

01-10-2005, 07:26 AM

I don't know. Ask Jenna.

In the meantime, she's fighting quite poorly in my opinion over on the Writers Weekly forum.

I have fresh information that she's been attacking numerous writers over the past few months. Sometimes without reason or warning.

If you want to go over there and take part, that's your choice.

vstrauss

01-10-2005, 08:06 AM

>> It was back in 2003. She posted as swtdesrose and BubblesR, mostly in the poetry forum.<<

Oh wow. I remember now. That was some stuff to marvel at.

- Victoria

Amie87

01-10-2005, 08:10 AM

I just checked and ezboard still lists "woman0ntop" as an active account (it hasn't been closed by ezboard). So, James, I expect that Rose would be able to post here.

Amie

CaoPaux

01-10-2005, 08:23 AM

Heh. From what I've seen recently, that does not bode well. I hope I'm wrong. :\

Kate St Amour

01-10-2005, 08:44 AM

Here is what Rose says on the PA boards regarding Section 7:
Saundra it just means that you give us rights to post your work on our site , promote it in our newsletter. We make no profit from the website and you hold all copyright to your work. We also remove it if you should decide to leave. The terms of use we have are the standard one used by msn , yahoo etc. It comes right from FCC.gov.

I admit; I am a chronic skimmer. No matter how many times I read Section 7, I don't see where rights revert back to the author if the author "leaves." Perhaps it's just me, but I tend to get stuck on the portion that lays claim to the author's work--forever.
Read this Excerpt from 7a:
7. Submission of Content on this Web Site
By providing any Content to our web site:
(a) you agree to grant to us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive right and license (including any moral rights or other necessary rights) to use, display, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, distribute, perform, promote, archive, translate, and to create derivative works and compilations, in whole or in part. Such license will apply with respect to any form, media, technology known or later developed;

Timothy W Johnson

01-10-2005, 08:53 AM

Uncle Jim, D James, and Victoria: thanks-a-million. Guess I was letting my paranoia get the best of me. Gee, and here I am getting paranoid when I’m supposed to be the one creating paranoia on paper for people to enjoy. I’ll have to fix that.

I’ve got a great idea for a story…can’t wait for ya’ll to see the final outcome…

Thanks for all the encouragement; things have been really weird lately.

FM St George

01-10-2005, 08:58 AM

since this is drifting away from PublishAmerica (even tho Rose is an ardent supporter) may I suggest this get it's own thread at this point?

bikrpreacher

01-10-2005, 09:03 AM

Well, before this all gets moved to another thread, may I tell you that the psycho lady of PA has threatened to sue me...only you know in the email, she threatened a "libel suite" lol...I'm in good company over here I think.

:rollin > >D

FM St George

01-10-2005, 09:04 AM

a libel suite?

is that like the Honeymoon Suite at the hotels?

:rollin

finerthingsinlife

01-10-2005, 09:57 AM

Partners,

Got me a brand new rope and a hood. I smell a-lynching a-coming...if they be PA they must be evil, only stands to sense.

Seriously, opposed or for, they're allowed to post, This is becoming such a nonsense!!

James D Macdonald

01-10-2005, 12:06 PM

This "Rose" business is getting rather far afield from PA.

The villains here are Larry, Willem, and Miranda. The problem is with their business model and their adverstising.

There are two main kinds of PA authors. The unhappy ones, and the ones who aren't unhappy yet. Unpleasantness in their regard doesn't aid anyone.

The goal is to educate authors who haven't signed the PA contract. To that end I'm playing with something.

I suppose everyone is waiting to see how the news stories turn out. But that's not the main thing, or the only thing, that's going on. The rest is day-to-day education. Creating a place that uncommited people won't flinch to read should be a priority.

Ed Williams 3

01-10-2005, 12:17 PM

...noted your concerns, and took a little visit over to the PA boards to read the posts from this person that you're concerned about. Bikrpreacher, my advice is to relax and forget this person even exists. I mean this in no way but honestly, but this woman is not even literate, I struggled just to make sense out of her sentences. I sincerely think she is to be pitied more than anything, please just put her out of your mind and wish for her soul to find peace.

P.S. On an entirely different note, I'm back from Vegas, and God did I love it!!!

SimonSays

01-10-2005, 01:24 PM

FYI

What has been described as a "rights grab" is in fact a fairly standard condition of usage on many message boards, including, quite ironically EZ Boards - which hosts Absolute Write.

That's right folks, every word you post here - EZ Boards has non-exclusive rights to use in whatever way they see fit - for as long as they see fit. Might want to re-think posting those chapters from your novels. Or you might want to beat up Jenna, the same way you were beating up Rose -(by the way, my guess is her lawyer probably gave her all the wording for the terms and conditions.)

I know it's impossible to unring a bell once it's been rung, but perhaps it will curb any additional bashing.

D James

01-10-2005, 01:39 PM

"There are two main kinds of PA authors. The unhappy ones, and the ones who aren't unhappy yet. Unpleasantness in their regard doesn't aid anyone."

Well, I can't say I'm unhappy. But I certainly can see how writers whose dreams are crushed when they realize that the only chance PA took on them is that their wallets are thick, can be worse than unhappy. Imagine if Rowling had been scammed and devasted in a way that she would never write again.

My concern is for PA authors under contract who are about to realize that, while they may beg their way into one or two bookstores, they certainly aren't going to get national stocking. Ever.

I just hope they understand this isn't a reflection on their writing or their book. This is a reflection on the misleading information on PA's website and info centre's responses to author's questions. Most of all, I hope they understand that no matter what they said in the past they can come here and be forgiven for it. Even you, HB.

Why not make a goal to send your next book to publishing companies whose books are found on *every* bookstore in the country?

D James

NicoleJLeBoeuf

01-10-2005, 02:48 PM

{delurk - hi there!}

What has been described as a "rights grab" is in fact a fairly standard condition of usage on many message boards, including, quite ironically EZ Boards - which hosts Absolute Write.
Indeed. However, I get the impression that Ms. Rose is aggressively encouraging (demanding? re: the one-poem-daily or get-kicked-off issue) the posting of original work. It seems to be a "spirit of the thing" distinction.

Just one writer's observation, and YMMV &etc.

{relurk}

StephanieCordray

01-10-2005, 05:46 PM

In the meantime, she's fighting quite poorly in my opinion over on the Writers Weekly forum.

I have fresh information that she's been attacking numerous writers over the past few months. Sometimes without reason or warning.

That kind of thing happens quite frequently when a PAvidian gets whiff of anything that sounds like you might not be thrilled to be associated with PA. My association with a particular Yahoo Group netted me an attack on a pro PA network over a comment I made about bad knees which had nothing to do with PA, positively or negatively.

That's when I decided to start my own site, which sadly was started before I found this one... Had I known of this one... well, I'm quite happy here... Lots to learn.

DeePower

01-10-2005, 09:15 PM

And I think it's gone from here as well. But I don't believe it was Rose that threatened a lible suit it was someone else who claimed she was a psychic.

Dee

James D Macdonald

01-10-2005, 09:37 PM

How well or how poorly someone "fights" is very much off-topic here.

Anger is one of the stages of grief. Recognize that.

bikrpreacher

01-10-2005, 10:22 PM

finerthingsinlife,
I don't understand the below quote of yours...what?

Got me a brand new rope and a hood. I smell a-lynching a-coming...if they be PA they must be evil, only stands to sense.

Seriously, opposed or for, they're allowed to post, This is becoming such a nonsense!!

Anyway, as I was saying...
I think that the one's who are going onto Amazon and such posting bad reviews for PA authors are PA authors. I believe this is why PA won't help with getting them to stop. I think that this way the other Authors can keep blaming it on absolutewrite and it keeps the fight going.

Didn't come up with this idea all on my own, there are a lot of PA authors emailing me with this idea. And there are a lot of PA authors coming over here to read these posts.

I am trying to get Amazon.com to help me figure all of this out, for sure I know it was a PA author who posted on my book page. They did help me out with that much, rather they will for someone else's book or not I don't know yet.
Why else would PA ban us all from posting over there. We are the one's who were done wrong, and the one who did it is fat and happy over there on the board!

PA authors, grab a cup of coffee and do like I did, start with page one here and read the posts to here. I know it's hard, but just read them one right after the other and you know it all adds up.

If you have had people tell you that you wrote a good book, if you know yourself that you wrote a good book, don't let yourself be treated this way any more. It's been said a lot of times here that you will be welcome, it's true. How old are you? This is the question that I asked myself! That I would be afraid to tell people anywhere who I am should have been a warning!

I am paying a lawyer to hold a copy of my proofs for my second book so that it will be printed the way I send it in. Would a traditional publisher make it so that you'd have to do such a thing as this? I have seen to many comments on the PA boards about books coming back to people with mistakes in them that they knew were not there when they sent it in.

Chris

DeePower

01-10-2005, 10:39 PM

Chris that makes no sense. Why would you send another book to PublishAmerica?

Dee

bikrpreacher

01-10-2005, 10:42 PM

Dee, I sent three almost at the same time...I said I'm an idiot, now you know, it's true.

Chris

Trapped in amber

01-10-2005, 10:42 PM

(Hands Chris plate of cookies)
You read the whole 4000+ post thread? There should be some kind of medal.
I asked this before, but is there anything that hasn't been said or done that might have helped you before you signed the PA contract?
------------------------------------------------------------

bikrpreacher

01-10-2005, 10:47 PM

I love cookies, thanks.
I thought everyone already knew, I am unknownauthor...sorry, just being afraid to come clean about who I am, but now realize that it was stupid.

Trapped in amber

01-10-2005, 10:51 PM

That wasn't stupid at all, it was completely understandable:) .

------------------------------------------------------------

DeePower

01-10-2005, 10:56 PM

It seems that PA is testing a new program for libraries an email has been sent to select authors whose books are on the new release page and 'working with them' to set up an event at their local library. According to Miranda, PublishAmerica might even send a free book to the library.

Miranda Prather says:

Any exposure is good exposure for a book. Some free copies may have to be given away in order to earn that exposure. Please recall that for reviewers, they can request a copy from PublishAmerica. We are usually happy to comply with a free copy, so you don't have to use your copies.

Our books do show up in many libraries across the country. Yes, some people may check the book out and never purchase it, but if they enjoy the book, they are going to recommend it, and they are more likely to purchase another book by you. Both of those are very positive things in a writer's career.

Also, I came up with a new plan that we are in the testing phase of right now. We recently hired a Sales Supervisor for our Author Support Team. She is implementing a plan that I came up with to provide increased promotion and hopefully increased sales for our titles. Once a book is released, we are working in concert with the book's author to obtain local library information. Once an author provides us with that information, our Sales Supervisor is contacting the library to attempt to set up an event for the author. We are trying to avoid book signings, unless that is what the library really desires, because they are not the best events to have. The sales are typically small from book signings only, and they do little to develop readership. It is much preferable to have the author at a library be able to discuss the book and engage the reader's imaginations. In our on-going test run for the project, we have already set up numerous events. We will analyze the project once the test has been completed, but from what I'm seeing now, I think there will be little doubt that we will continue the program and possibly look to expand it to book stores.

Best,
Miranda

This is a follow up email from Ms. Prather.The individual Miranda is referring to is the librarian at your
local library. Keep in mind from 100 - 200 books show up on the new release page at PA so Laurie's got a lot of telephoning to do.

"When your book has been released, showing on our new releases page, you will be contacted by Laurie, our Sales Supervisor. She will work with you to obtain the information needed. Then, she will call the individual and arrange to speak with them about your book. During that discussion, she will attempt to set up an event. We would then forward you the information to follow up if an event is desired. You would know your schedule better than anyone, so it is
important that you finalize the details with the library."

My take on the program.

Libraries use their own system, which is based on the library of congress (LOC) catalog description to buy books. PA does not obtain a loc catalog description for their titles. Probably for two reasons, the LOC requires that two copies of the released book be sent to them without charge and titles that are POD don't qualify. PA doesn't want to spend the $15 it would cost for them to send two books, and they know they are POD.

Bookstores won't stock PA books.

So where else can an author have a book event/signing? At a library. Libraries are usually very open to events from authors that don't cost them anything. But libraries won't buy PA books. And coincidently PA really doesn't want to sell to libraries because libraries don't pay up front. How to solve this problem.

PA comes up with the idea that they will offer to help maybe 20 of their authors who have brand new releases set up these events as a test program. The author finds out the contact info for the correct person at the library and sends that info to PA. PA actually may send a free copy of the author's book to the library and maybe even send out a press release for these 'test' authors. The event is held and the author is happy, happy, happy.

Then PA announces a brand new program to help their authors unlike any other program from any other traditional publisher. Publish America will be working with thousands of libraries across the nation from sea to shining sea to highlight PA authors in their own cities. Is PA a great publisher or what?
PA sends out with the author's copies an order form that says if they order a minimum of 100 copies (or some stupid number) then PA will assist in setting up the author's very own library event. Why does the author have to buy the 100 copies to qualify? Well to make sure that when the event is held that the author has enough copies to sell to the attendees. The author buys the copies and then contacts the library which may or may not want the event. But it doesn't matter to PA because they dangled that 'library incentive' in front of the author to buy their own books and it worked.

IF the library does want the event PA takes 20 minutes max, to get enough info to send out a press release.

When you think about it, Miranda came up with a very clever motivation to get authors to buy more of their own books while being able to give credit to PA for such an innovative library program.

And they plan on expanding the program to bookstores.

Dee

Duncan J Macdonald

01-10-2005, 11:14 PM

Howdy All -- First Post, read the whole thread (yes, all of 'em), don't have a dog in this fight (neither a published author - aside from my Master's Thesis - nor a current of former PA person) just interested in the field.

So, with that being said, I'll jump into an ongoing debacle:

From SimonSays:
"What has been described as a "rights grab" is in fact a fairly standard condition of usage on many message boards, including, quite ironically EZ Boards - which hosts Absolute Write."

Just in the interest of fair comparison shopping, I copied the relevant sections from both sites:

EZ Board:
5. LICENSE GRANTED TO EZBOARD
You grant ezboard the world-wide, royalty free and non-exclusive license to reproduce, modify, adapt, distribute and publish any Content you post/upload/contribute to the Service, for the purposes of displaying such information on ezboard's sites and for the promotion and marketing of ezboard's services.

Today's Woman
7. Submission of Content on this Web Site
By providing any Content to our web site:
(a) you agree to grant to us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive right and license (including any moral rights or other necessary rights) to use, display, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, distribute, perform, promote, archive, translate, and to create derivative works and compilations, in whole or in part. Such license will apply with respect to any form, media, technology known or later developed;..."

I leave the 'Compare and Contrast' exercise to the student.

Duncan

bikrpreacher

01-10-2005, 11:16 PM

Let me finish laughing/crying/laughing/crying...I'm so confused! My Goodness Gracious!!!!!!!!! Yes, let's get the Authors mind off of the bookstores for now, and have them over at the local library! This goes right along nicely with an old post I saw of the PA logo last week...telling people they should buy large amounts of their own book from amazon or another online bookstore to qualify for the hard cover deal of publishamericas, and that it would maybe make it easier to get into bookstores.
This is just such a silly thing, I can't get over it...
Chris

Gravity

01-10-2005, 11:17 PM

Dee, although it pains me to say it, I think you've nailed this latest PA deal-e-o dead-on. The name of the game is "how can we sell more books to their authors?" And this looks like a sweet way to do it...for PA.

...sigh...

It never ends, does it? It just...never...ends.

John

snarzler

01-10-2005, 11:25 PM

How long before PAvidians start sending each other copies to stock their local libraries with?

In my local library system (five branches under one control), you can't even donate a book that cannot be bought (in any version by some means) by the public. So since my library can't buy a copy (no CIP), they wouldn't shelve it nor probably have an event for it. [Given my book has mysteriously slipped into the PA netherworld *crossingfingersforareleaseduetounabletopublishwit hinayear* I am not about to ask.]

And now that Lynn has been run off into the land of Successful After PA ('cause ex-PAers are SAPs for having put down the koolaid), anyone else notice a coincidence between this new PA program and what she was trying to do while at PA?

Andrea 8)

CaoPaux

01-11-2005, 12:23 AM

Up against the apathetic media, yet again.

www.publishamerica.com/cg.../11436.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11436.htm)

Kate St Amour

01-11-2005, 12:35 AM

I can't wait to see what is going to be said by: pro-PA'ers, advocates, and folks who are aware that they have been screwed by PA; after everything from the media-blitz shakes down. Should be very, very interesting...

FM St George

01-11-2005, 12:47 AM

oh, it'll be the usual "the big houses don't want us around" and "terrorist" remarks from HB - since he's such a sensitive type of guy...

they'll just gloss it over as "misinformed" and that the writers were paid off by the traditional houses, doncha know...

:rollin

personally, if I'd lost someone to a REAL terrorist, I'd be after HB - the insensitivity of tossing that term around in this day and age shows his lack of maturity and the depth of his obsession with PublishAmerica.

Gravity

01-11-2005, 12:54 AM

...if I may strike a simile. You enter the attic a greenhorn, as clean as a baby's conscience and happy to explore the new world. As the dad on A Christmas Story was heard to exclaim, "Why, there could be anything in there!"

The adventure begins.

But then as you move along, you being noticing the dirt, the cobwebs, the general sense of dissipation. Where the heck is the treasure you expected? Still, you move along. And at the other end of the attic you finally exit, a bit dirtier, and bit more jaded, but definitely wiser. The treasure never existed.

And so the PA experience. The way to "traditional publishing" (whatever that is), is a road that's hard, unforgiving, and takes more than a little skill to navigate. There is no shortcut, there is no magic map, there is no treasure. There's only work. Hard work. Freaking hard work...and more than a little grace. If I'd been warned about the paucity of treasure in "the attic", I would never have ventured there. But in 2001, the warnings were few and far between, and I simply missed them.

But getting back to my strained metaphor: others are cautioned about "the attic", and still insist on seeing for themselves. In time, they too emerge with mutters of "dang, I should have listened..."

Others are in various stages of exit.

And still others are still in the attic, playing pattycake with the spiders, as happy as can be.

Human beings are strange creatures, methinks...

John

arainsb123

01-11-2005, 03:43 AM

ezboard restricts itself to using your work as a marketing tool. Today's Woman can do anything it wants and takes more rights.

triceretops

01-11-2005, 03:43 AM

"LOCAL PAPER REFUSES TO REVIEW LOCAL AUTHOR'S BOOK"

Yeah, plaster that all over the place in your home town, and the review community will make a note of you in their blackball list. This is how the real pirates plunder, and bluster their way into the industry. Yeah, that always works. Strong arm tactics, comes from angry people.

"THOSE PLAYING PATTYCAKE WITH THE SPIDERS, AS HAPPY AS CAN BE."

Those are the Stepford Scribes--they've been programed to feel happy and giddy. Some of them are really sweet people and don't want to rock the boat--they're non-confrontational personalities--you can't really help them because they don't want to expend the energy to help themselves.

But when the Pirates and the Stepford Scribes actually encourage neophytes to join PA's ranks, that, is what gives me a slight shudder. So it is so important to keep this forum going. Correct information about how the publishing industry really works, and has been working for the past century, is imperative.

PA, and some of it's more outspoken authors are actually counting on the Major Houses to knuckle under and jump up on this fast, new wave of publishing technology. Industry standards don't change overnight, and NOTHING, but NOTHING sells more books than a whopping story, that's cleanly edited (for content as well) sold to an eager public that can't stop turning those pages.

If we can't agree with PA on many issues, we certainly have something in common with them, other than writing books, via
blood, sweat and tears. I propose that we all ban together somehow and evaluate why, and discuss the popular industry
standard of marketing these Extremely High Profile Celebrity
books that are garnering millions of promotion dollars, while ordinary mid-list titles are suffering due to lack of "Push."

And Jenna, I'm not including your Celine book in here. I'm talking about The Clinton books, nearly everything plugged on
Fox news, (and gak, I love O Reilly), and this purported Amber Frey blockbuster. It used to be that an editor bought a book at a house--they were the decision makers (bear me out, James), but now, we must all face marketing, exclusively it seems. And this is sad, because we now must confront more
P.R. people, publicity staff, marketing consortiums than ever before, in the history of publishing.

I think the figures are more like 10% of all writers will ever see print, and 1% will make a living at it. If PA and the rest of us can ever find common ground, this is the battlefield where the
most savage fighting should take place. I heard one PA author put down this hammer, at least, proclaiming that, "well,
it's really who you know in the industry." Close, but not quite.
I think it's popular topics, mass interest, and a very powerful news media that determines where billions will be spent in the collective publishing industry.

Can any PA authors out there agree on this problem we ALL face?

Sorry for sliding off topic here.

Triceratops

XThe NavigatorX

01-11-2005, 03:53 AM

Hi, Duncan. Welcome. Too many MacDonalds here. :D

So many different threads going on this morning about so many different things. It's getting to be a little complicated, and I'm not going to help.

I just received this email response to my letter to the MD AG regarding that mass email that went out around Xmas time with the misspelled names.

Ahh, government in action. I can just picture someone taking an email, printing it out, and then mailing it to the office down the street.

Subject: Your email to the Attorney General
From: "Peggie McKee" <xxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, January 10, 2005 9:51 am

Dear Mr. Dinniman:
Thank you for contacting the Office of the Attorney General. Your email has been forwarded to me for response. Please accept my apologies for taking so long to respond, but I needed to get clarification from our Consumer Protection Supervisor who was on vacation.

The e-mail you received was in response to an email petition received in our Hagerstown Office. Due to the fact that that Office does not have email capability, it was generated here in our Baltimore office.

Since the petition contained no information regarding the actual sender, we responded to all of the petitioners using the only address we had for them - e-mail addresses. The petition did not state that the names and addresses were to be kept confidential and we did not realize that some of the authors on the list had previously filed complaints and
asked for annonymity.

I apologize for this mistake and am sorry that this office cannot provide further assistance.

Peggie McKee
Citizens Response Coordinator

CaoPaux

01-11-2005, 04:00 AM

But how does that explain the folks who never joined a petition, or had anything to do with PA? Were it me, I'd request a copy of what they received, to make sure it was a real petition and not something sent by a PAvidian to confuse the issue.

James D Macdonald

01-11-2005, 04:04 AM

Depending on the year, "celebrity" books make up between 5% and 13% of the titles released. So far as they bring in major dollars to major publishers, they help fund smaller, less commercial books by more obscure writers.

Why do celebrity books sell? The public loves 'em. Brad Pitt breaks up with his significant other? It's on the cover of a dozen magazines and mentioned on TV. You break up with your significant other? The bartender will listen while you tell him about it.

Publishers are in the business of giving the public what they want. If you can give the public what they want, the publishers will be more than happy to help you.

Publishing isn't about the writers. It's about the readers.

Ed Williams 3

01-11-2005, 04:52 AM

...serious newspaper columnists must react to the National Enquirer. Bottom line, if a book on septic tank repair would sell, the bookshelves would be full of 'em. Publishers hustle the buck just like any other business does, even though we don't like to admit it to ourselves sometimes.

BeckEaston

01-11-2005, 05:16 AM

Up against the apathetic media, yet again.

www.publishamerica.com/cg.../11436.htm It's absolutely incredible that these authors believe the only ingredient to the Print/Publish on Demand module is whether or not the author has to pay the publisher to print the book. Their lack of understanding about how this industry works breeds the very concept that they don't even understand they are going to be disappointed when they do in fact learn the truth about publishing.

These authors are as clueless as a woman being beaten. They think by being loyal to the BULL that PA spews they are in fact helping themselves! Excuse my analogy, but things like victimizing people with the understanding that you are in fact doing it is just ten ways to wrong. Yes, I am emotional, but it's posts like that that get me enraged. I’m okay that they piss me off from time to time. I will continue to be professional, but Ms. Prathers, Mr. Williems, or any other PA executive who wants to lie or manipulate so blatantly, you fuel my fire when you mislead to the extent of these authors conclusions. It's just so plain wrong.

Now Dee, I've breathed a bit, after I read that Miranda post. I am still sucking in deep breaths. Let me get this right...Miranda and her flunky sales girl are going to sit while the authors purchase 100-500 of their own books to become "top sellers" for PA. The Sales girl calls the author and notifies them that they have bought enough copies? Then the authors (NOT SALES FLUNKY) is going to go out and network into libraries for "readings" or "signings" or what? Then these authors are going to give all their hard work contacts to PA so they can generate a data base for who? For free? Then the authors (NOT SALES) will contact Miranda and this flunky gal and give them all the necessary contact info and date. What does PA get? Free publicity, free advertising, a new database and a part time staff that virtually does nothing. What does the author get? Hard work for months probably, money out of pocket, a reading with people who they've advertised to be there, no books sold only "rented" and how is this good for the author?
>:

vstrauss

01-11-2005, 05:21 AM

What depresses me is that people swallow this bogus print-on-demand ("the technology") vs. publish-on-demand (vanity publishing) distinction that PA has invented to support its assertion that it's not actually "a POD publisher". I've never seen anyone else make this distinction. Elsewhere, the terms are used interchangeably.

- Victoria

BeckEaston

01-11-2005, 05:23 AM

Dear Mr. Dinniman:
Thank you for contacting the Office of the Attorney General. Your email has been forwarded to me for response. Please accept my apologies for taking so long to respond, but I needed to get clarification from our Consumer Protection Supervisor who was on vacation.

The e-mail you received was in response to an email petition received in our Hagerstown Office. Due to the fact that that Office does not have email capability, it was generated here in our Baltimore office.

Since the petition contained no information regarding the actual sender, we responded to all of the petitioners using the only address we had for them - e-mail addresses. The petition did not state that the names and addresses were to be kept confidential and we did not realize that some of the authors on the list had previously filed complaints and
asked for annonymity.

I apologize for this mistake and am sorry that this office cannot provide further assistance.

Peggie McKee
Citizens Response Coordinator

This is bull. I sent my "petition" via postal mail. I got a letter from Maryland with the letterhead. It's not the letter you received. My mail was "to be held in confidence." I have no idea where the email containing the misspelled names came from. Just want to clear that up, as most of you know I initiated that petition. Those whom I told were not on the list are in fact not. Mine differs from what has been sent to everyone.

Thank you for letting me be heard.

DeePower

01-11-2005, 05:59 AM

Two things:

I don't know that the new PA 'library event program' is going to work the way I described it, that was just my take on it.

And someone who is knowledgeable about these things told me that the email from the "AG" office was spoofed from an aol address, it just looks like it's from the AG's office. I don't know this for a fact however.

I find the timing of these emails rather convenient since I just posted an update on the upcoming media coverage about PA. Could this be a distraction?

Dee

James D Macdonald

01-11-2005, 06:22 AM

We can make certain assumptions about this new library program. The first of which is that the authors will wind up paying money.

Let me play with a different hypothesis. This is just me blue-sky speculating.

Suppose PA has a contract with Lightning Source saying that LSI will print five copies of each PA title.

Of those five, two went to the author, one to B&N's distribution center, one to Amazon, and one to Ingram.

Ingram, starting the One Source program, said "We don't want any copies, thanks anyway."

PA might have asked LSI to only print four, but LSI said "A contract's a contract, guys."

So what to do with that one copy? Give it to the author? That starts a precedent, and the authors who only got two might revolt. Amazon and B&N don't want 'em. PA doesn't have room to warehouse 10,000 books, and no desire to spend money. So ...

Enter this new program. This is the pilot project. Later, if it proves successful, PA rolls it out for everyone.

1) Author identifies local library and name of contact person.

2) PA sends that person one copy of book (they already have it in hand, and book rate is cheap). They call the library person and say, "This is a local author. That author will be contacting you about giving a talk on How To Become a Published Author."

3) Library, not yet jaded like bookstores are by PA authors, sees a free event with a local guy. The author gets with the library, schedules same.

4) Author is urged by PA to buy ten or twenty extra copies of their book to have on hand at the talk, just in case.

5) Author talks to aspiring newbies, tells them about this wonderful publisher in Frederick, Maryland, who (unlike those snooty New York publishers) is willing to work with new authors. A traditional publisher! They don't charge you anything! They pay you! Newbies see a pile of ten or twenty books on the author's table. Looks good!

6) Some percentage of those aspiring newbies, having heard the word from a Genuine Published Author, submit their books to PA, and buy their 75 (on average) copies of their own book.

7) Eventually, somewhere down the pike, librarians start hanging up on PA and PA authors who are trying to arrange talks. But that's later....

D James

01-11-2005, 07:28 AM

"Suppose PA has a contract with Lightning Source saying that LSI will print five copies of each PA title."

This is the only part of the hypothesis that I didn't agree with. The author copy number can be negotiated higher (I wound up with 5 copies).

My hypothesis:

Authors have started going to bookstores before buying their 50-100 copies. They're realizing that bookstores simply won't stock PA books. Period. Not even on consignment. This is hurting sales from PA to the author.

The library, who is willing to take a free book and host a free event (and it sounds like the author, in the end, is still doing the booking), is the next most logical step.

(My assumption at this point: PA *won't* send them the free copy. There will be some mix-up, or that particular library won't fill some kind of requirement that will pop up later (for more on this kind of scheme see the $500 advances offered by PA and the infamous Independence label).)

Regardless if the book is sent to the library or not, PA will convince the author that if s/he brings more copies s/he can sell them to their captive audience. Hey, buy 50 copies and you'll get a 40% discount just like the bookstores! Special one time offer!

As Jim says:
"5) Author talks to aspiring newbies, tells them about this wonderful publisher in Frederick, Maryland, who (unlike those snooty New York publishers) is willing to work with new authors. A traditional publisher! They don't charge you anything! They pay you! Newbies see a pile of ten or twenty books on the author's table. Looks good!

6) Some percentage of those aspiring newbies, having heard the word from a Genuine Published Author, submit their books to PA, and buy their 75 (on average) copies of their own book."

Sher2

01-11-2005, 07:30 AM

And someone who is knowledgeable about these things told me that the email from the "AG" office was spoofed from an aol address, it just looks like it's from the AG's office. I don't know this for a fact however.

I find the timing of these emails rather convenient since I just posted an update on the upcoming media coverage about PA. Could this be a distraction?

This information prompted me to go back and examine my e-mail from the purported MD AG's office. Does anyone know how to trace it from this information?

Return-Path: <Mediator@oag.state.md.us>
Received: from rly-yj03.mx.aol.com (rly-yj03.mail.aol.com [172.18.180.163]) by air-yj01.mail.aol.com (v103.7) with ESMTP id MAILINYJ11-80441c98df71b4; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:08:55 -0500
Received: from [207.239.106.40] (oagfw.oag.state.md.us [207.239.106.40] ) by rly-yj03.mx.aol.com (v103.7) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYJ34-80441c98df71b4; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:08:42 -0500
Received: from fs_oag2 by [207.239.106.40]
via smtpd (for yj.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.25]) with ESMTP; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:08:39 -0500
Received: from DM_OAG-MTA by tau.oag.state.md.us
with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:08:36 -0500
Message-Id: <s1c947a4.053@tau.oag.state.md.us>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:08:22 -0500
From: "CPD Mediator" <Mediator@oag.state.md.us>
Subject: Publish America
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-AOL-IP: 207.239.106.40
X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:0:0:
X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0

DaveKuzminski

01-11-2005, 07:37 AM

"The e-mail you received was in response to an email petition received in our Hagerstown Office. Due to the fact that that Office does not have email capability, it was generated here in our Baltimore office."

Well, duh, how did they receive it in the first place if they didn't have email capability?

As to the library program, my feeling is that eventually one PA author physically hurts another PA author who lives in the same locality for misleading the first author into signing with PA. That's one scenario I hope we never see, but I fear we will.

D James, I think you're right about what will happen to that third copy intended for the author.

lindylou45

01-11-2005, 07:39 AM

Eventually, somewhere down the pike, librarians start hanging up on PA and PA authors who are trying to arrange talks. But that's later....

When I attepted to give my local library one of my author copies I was told they couldn't accept it as they do not stock POD titles. At that time I hadn't found this board and I was shocked. Now, after being given an excellent education by the people on this board, I understand completely.

Chris,

I understand why you have another book with PA. Unfortunately, I did the same thing. I finished my second book before the first came out and I discovered the truth about PA. Now both of my books are dead. I'm not giving up, though. I'm reading "Learning to Write with Uncle Jim" and learning a great deal. I'm only to page 55 though.

Linda

StephanieCordray

01-11-2005, 08:02 AM

The first IP was a blackhole, then relayed onward as legit to a relay through a telecom company, then to aol, then back to the telecom company. This is normal as email is often routed through several relays in the course of getting from one person to another. It came from an aol address, tho, and I can't for the life of me see why the MD AG would use aol for their internet service.

The problem with tracing it back to the actual culprit is it would take a lot of time and looking through raw log files (never fun) on the date that the email was sent just to see who was assigned that particular IP address on that particular day.

AOL has dynamically assigned IP's so what one used one day will very likely be different the next day or even within a day if they shut down and start up their Internet connection more than once. I spent 2 days looking through raw log files only to find out an on site IT tech lied about what was going on with that particular customer and my business is neither an isp nor has anywhere near the number aol has.

triceretops

01-11-2005, 08:13 AM

Has anyone noticed that PA now has a private message board that can't be boarded and scuttled? I just noticed this. Was it always there?

If this is so, and it's private, for those of them that are reading this thread, I raise a challenge. Exchange with each other your honest to nuts-an-bolts sales figures for any year that your book was released. Omit sales in which you were the purchaser of your title. You can include fellow PA authors who've purchased your books. Compare notes with each other. Then research what even a dinky small house or university press can do for you, let alone a medium or major house. Compare notes again. Take an aspirin and a breath.
Then a reality check. In private, of course.

Tri

StephanieCordray

01-11-2005, 08:19 AM

Exchange with each other your honest to nuts-an-bolts sales figures for any year that your book was released. Omit sales in which you were the purchaser of your title. You can include fellow PA authors who've purchased your books. Compare notes with each other. Then research what even a dinky small house or university press can do for you, let alone a medium or major house. Compare notes again. Take an aspirin and a breath.
Then a reality check. In private, of course.

I believe this is why the PA authors and former PA authors are fighting so hard.

Duncan J Macdonald

01-11-2005, 08:33 AM

Quote:
XThe NavigatorX
Hi, Duncan. Welcome. Too many MacDonalds here.

Not nearly enough that I can tell.

The World Needs More!

Oh, and Thanks for the Welcome.

Duncan

XThe NavigatorX

01-11-2005, 08:40 AM

Again, I'm no email expert, but I think that means the receiver of the email has AOL.

The headers for my email were like this:

Return-Path: <xxxxxxxxx>
Received: from [207.239.106.40] (oagfw.oag.state.md.us [207.239.106.40] )
****&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp by pro3.abac.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j0AHD583052412
****&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp for <matt@mattdinniman.com>; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:13:11 -0800 (PST)
****&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp (envelope-from xxxxxxxxxx)
Received: from fs_oag2 by [207.239.106.40]
**** via smtpd (for pro3.abac.com [66.226.64.4]) with ESMTP; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:12:02 -0500
Received: from DM_OAG-MTA by tau.oag.state.md.us
****&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:51:41 -0500
Message-Id: <s1e26c4d.091@tau.oag.state.md.us>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:51:32 -0500
From: "Peggie McKee" <xxxxxxx>
To: <matt@mattdinniman.com>
Subject: Your email to the Attorney General
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=__PartFDDD5384.0__="
X-Spam-Score: 0.605 (HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE)
X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.48 on 216.55.191.199

That pro.abac.whatever is my email system, and that line should be different for everyone, I believe. They were pretty much the same for the mediator email, which for me didn't list any AOhell servers at all.

We need an expert to come pick it apart.

Whispering Bard

01-11-2005, 09:09 AM

Has anyone noticed that PA now has a private message board that can't be boarded and scuttled? I just noticed this. Was it always there?

Tri, the problem with asking the PA authors to compare numbers on the private board is the same as it is on the public board: PA will delete any post that will allow PA-ers to share/compare info or any post that contains negative information about PA's business practices. Why? Because it's not just the public that PA wants to keep in the dark, it's their own authors, as well.

I've actually been watching both boards closely for the last month or so. The number of posters keeps getting smaller and smaller, and the subject matter keeps getting further and further afield from writing/publishing. I think, even if it's only subconsciously, the PA authors on the boards are beginning to realize that something stinks.

Sher2

01-11-2005, 09:35 AM

Tri, the problem with asking the PA authors to compare numbers on the private board is the same as it is on the public board: PA will delete any post that will allow PA-ers to share/compare info or any post that contains negative information about PA's business practices. Why? Because it's not just the public that PA wants to keep in the dark, it's their own authors, as well.

I've actually been watching both boards closely for the last month or so. The number of posters keeps getting smaller and smaller, and the subject matter keeps getting further and further afield from writing/publishing. I think, even if it's only subconsciously, the PA authors on the boards are beginning to realize that something stinks.

I think you're exactly right, Whispering Bard. I think the purpose of the private board is to (try to) keep the public from hearing any whispers of discontent. PA wants its authors kept in the dark as well; hence the continual monitoring of and deleting of posts that so much as hint at the stench. God forbid 12,000 "happy authors" should get ahold of any real facts and figures.

XThe NavigatorX

01-11-2005, 10:08 AM

The uneasiness seems to come and go in waves, the peak being royalty time. The problem for PA is the "Banned" and exile groups now have places to congregate, and they're getting louder and larger.

BeckEaston

01-11-2005, 11:51 AM

I have solid belief that this email you speak actually comes from the AG office as specified. It has been sent through channels to the Customer Relations part of the local offices. However, and I repeat this. I did NOT send a list of petitioners that had those misspelled email addresses. All mine are correct. Furthermore, I speculate that PA got a hold of the list somehow (maybe through the AG who not does not want to admit that they "confronted" PA with the numerous authors) and PA allegedly changed or added some names. I do NOT know this to be fact, but cannot for the life of me figure out how some of these people got this email. So, it did originate from the Maryland Office. But who sent the email that had these attached to it, is the question.

At this point, it's moot. What are you trying to get from the evidence of who sent it?

James D Macdonald

01-11-2005, 11:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>"Suppose PA has a contract with Lightning Source saying that LSI will print five copies of each PA title."</BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the only part of the hypothesis that I didn't agree with. The author copy number can be negotiated higher (I wound up with 5 copies).

Still not out of the question under my hypothesis. They just wouldn't have sent copies to Ingram, B&N, and Amazon.

D James

01-11-2005, 11:57 AM

Still not out of the question under my hypothesis. They just wouldn't have sent copies to Ingram, B&N, and Amazon.

Ingram ordered six copies after my book came out. So that would be at least 11 copies.

D James

James D Macdonald

01-11-2005, 12:17 PM

Right. They are a Print on Demand. There was a demand, they printed. It's the least they could do....

D James

01-11-2005, 12:39 PM

"Right. They are a Print on Demand. There was a demand, they printed. It's the least they could do.... "

Except that three of those copies are still there. (at $19.95 US, who would buy them?)

D James

astonwest

01-11-2005, 06:50 PM

"The uneasiness seems to come and go in waves, the peak being royalty time. The problem for PA is the "Banned" and exile groups now have places to congregate, and they're getting louder and larger."

And lo and behold, it's almost time for another set of royalties to be sent out...this is the final month for this 6 months.

(which means, look for a 'buy your own books and get royalties' game coming shortly)

Big Daddy West
:hat

RealityChuck

01-11-2005, 08:53 PM

Return-Path: <xxxxxxxxx>
Received: from [207.239.106.4 (oagfw.oag.state.md.us [207.239.106.4 )
by pro3.abac.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j0AHD583052412
for <matt@mattdinniman.com>; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:13:11 -0800 (PST)
(envelope-from xxxxxxxxxx)
Received: from fs_oag2 by [207.239.106.4
via smtpd (for pro3.abac.com [66.226.64.4]) with ESMTP; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:12:02 -0500
Received: from DM_OAG-MTA by tau.oag.state.md.us
with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:51:41 -0500

The first domain listed (you read "recieved" messages from last to first) was "tau.oag.state.md.us," which would be the Maryland AG's office. ("state.md.us" means it's a state agency domain; "oag" is probably "Office of the Attorney General," and "tau" is the server.) It came from "DM_OAG-MTA, which is probably a machine on the AG's internal network.

In other words, the headers seem legit.

RealityChuck

01-11-2005, 08:55 PM

Return-Path: <Mediator@oag.state.md.us>
Received: from rly-yj03.mx.aol.com (rly-yj03.mail.aol.com [172.18.180.163]) by air-yj01.mail.aol.com (v103.7) with ESMTP id MAILINYJ11-80441c98df71b4; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:08:55 -0500
Received: from [207.239.106.4 (oagfw.oag.state.md.us [207.239.106.4 ) by rly-yj03.mx.aol.com (v103.7) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYJ34-80441c98df71b4; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:08:42 -0500
Received: from fs_oag2 by [207.239.106.4
via smtpd (for yj.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.25]) with ESMTP; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:08:39 -0500
Received: from DM_OAG-MTA by tau.oag.state.md.us
with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:08:36 -0500
Message-Id: <s1c947a4.053@tau.oag.state.md.us>This also appears to originate rom the Maryland AG office; it is sent from the same machine as the other.

The aol headers are just aol moving it from one of their servers to another as part of the delivery process.

ByGrace

01-11-2005, 10:27 PM

I have been lurking here for a long time, and finally decided to add something.

Regarding the library issue. I can attest that anytime an author published through Publish America gets their books placed anywhere, whether with a bookstore or a library it is due to their own hard work.

Dee, you said that PA books cannot get into libraries. I guess I am one of the lucky ones. My books are in multiple libraries in the US, but only because I spent hours sending out email announcements to libraries in the US.

My local library system has six branches. All six have at least two copies each of my titles. I check their website often and my books are always checked out or have holds on them. I am glad people are reading my books locally, but it is kind of sad that they are not buying them.

My library has been my biggest advocate. I have had several signings and met with their book clubs. It's been great.They've helped me build my name at least locally.

Publish America did nothing in the way of helping me to market my books. I've worked extremely hard on promotion, but their high prices and no returns have stifled my efforts.

I have so much I would like to say here, but I don't want to make this post too long. But the Ingram situation is very bad and I am surprised that this isn't an issue. I will say that due to Ingram decision to stop stocking POD books, one library in my state called and told me they could not get my books from Baker & Taylor. They ended up calling PA and buying them direct.

A book signing fell through with a major bookstore chain due to the no return policy and because Ingram said my books were not in stock. I am heartsick these days.

The reason I have three books published with PA is because my first contract had the clause that they got the first look for the next book. The following book was a sequel and so I thought it would be best they were together. Both books were finished. The other reason was MP at PA gave me a good pitch, saying my books would no doubt move into the Independence imprint and thus have a return and support. I believed her. It hasn't happened.

OK, I must stop here, and go cry in the shower.

FM St George

01-11-2005, 10:38 PM

{{{{{{{{{{{{{huggles}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

we hear your pain - there's a lot of us here; PA authors who believed the claptrap - I'm debating right now over in The Writer Magazine forum with a new PA author who's sure that we're all just whiners, etc... (HBB for those who have read back a few pages and the like...)

we all bought into the hype and we all aren't stupid - we just assumed the best of PublishAmerica and got taken... sad, but we'll all learn from the experience and move on - there are a LOT of PA authors who have become successful, with no thanks to the scammeisters over at PublishAmerica!

just keep on writing and keep your head above water - submit to magazines and other publishers and don't let your PA experience keep you from writing, if that's what you love to do.

:)

Sher2

01-11-2005, 10:42 PM

The reason I have three books published with PA is because my first contract had the clause that they got the first look for the next book. The following book was a sequel and so I thought it would be best they were together. Both books were finished. The other reason was MP at PA gave me a good pitch, saying my books would no doubt move into the Independence imprint and thus have a return and support. I believed her. It hasn't happened.

OK, I must stop here, and go cry in the shower.

Don't cry, Grace -- although, trust me, I know how tempting it is. At least your books have some readership outside of your immediate circle, which is more than many of us can say. And you'll know where not to go with your next one. Just keep saying the mantra, "There IS life after PA."

DeePower

01-11-2005, 10:55 PM

I was sent this email and have permission to post:

Peggie McKee does not work for the Office of the Attorney General. There is no Haggerstown office. The Baltimore office has no position of Citizens Response Coordinator. All of the offices have email, internet and government database access.

More on this horsepucky:
I was able to establish the original email from the "OAG" was spoofed. It was originated through another mail source. I personally contacted the actual AG's office to let them know what was going on and gave them copies. They told me they send communications through the mail.

There is more information, but I don't want to give away the whole warrantee.

Pretending to be a federal office/r is a felony. The more is tried, the worse the hole.
*******************************

Dee

TuppGal

01-11-2005, 11:00 PM

My first book is with PA, I now have four other contracts with REAL publishers. I wrote them trying to get out of my contract, citing the complaints I filed . This is their response:

Dear Ms. Samuels:

Do not address us in such a tone. Your facts are wrong, your accusations are wrong, and your insinuations are wrong. Worst of all, and most unusual of all, you call our integrity into question.

The content of your statements is so unusual, so far from reality, and so very bizarre, that we will not stoop to even respond to them. The word libelous would be appropriate. Suffice it to say, that everything you say is simply, factually, wrong, and is easily proven to be so. Whomever gave you this misinformation is very pathetically misinformed.

Your request is denied, and we will expect your apology.

Thank you,
Author Support Team
support@publishamerica.com

Letter I wrote:

FirstName = Tina
LastName = Samuels
submit_by = tinasam69@hotmail.com
BookTitle = A Non-Southerner's Guide to Southern Food
ISBN = 141374141x
State = GA
ProblemCategory = Production Progress
Title_Of_Issue = Break Contract
Desc_Of_Problem = I would like PublishAmerica to let me out of my contract and have my manuscript free and clear. I have sent complaints about PublishAmerica to the following:
filed a complaint with the Maryland BBB
The Federal Trade Commission
the Frederick County Board of County Commissioners
and the Office of the Attorney General.
Please send me paperwork that documents that I am out of my contract ASAP.

----------------
copy of complaint sent
------------------

RE: PublishAmerica contract and publishing non-ethics

I'd like to file a complaint
They claim that they only accept 10% of manuscripts, will have it in tens of thousands of bookstores and you will be published by a traditional publisher. They are reviewed as a "vanity press" after you check them out.

In regard to their actual practice:
Your book is not available in brick and mortar bookstores and libraries
Your book is not returnable if a bookstore owner/manager should stock it
7-year-long contract is considered in improper amount of time
Your book is published by a vanity press
PublishAmerica will not apply for the CIP, which allows it to be bought by libraries
PublishAmerica overprices the books
PublishAmerica offers a nonstandard discount
PublishAmerica's business model is to sell to their own authors
PublishAmerica's books are NOT edited--certainly not line-by-line as they claim on their web site but have since admitted that they only edit for grammar and spelling
PublishAmerica accepts approximately 80% of submitted manuscripts [most publishers reject 99% of their submissions] (One manuscript was 300 pages but the same 30 pages done over 10 times *documented)
PublishAmerica will only accept credit card orders over the phone when booking for one of their seminars or to purchase your own titles

Tina M Samuels

----------------

I replied: Expect more letters to the BBB and attorney general then.

James D Macdonald

01-11-2005, 11:08 PM

Hi, Grace. We're here for you.

The other reason was MP at PA gave me a good pitch, saying my books would no doubt move into the Independence imprint and thus have a return and support. I believed her. It hasn't happened.

I have reason to believe that out of the 12,000 happy authors, only six books are in the Independence program.

Was MP's statement in the form of email? Did you happen to keep a copy?

CaoPaux

01-11-2005, 11:24 PM

Peggie McKee does not work for the Office of the Attorney General. There is no Haggerstown office. The Baltimore office has no position of Citizens Response Coordinator.
Ghod, I love my spidey sense. :\

aka eraser

01-11-2005, 11:24 PM

PA's Author "Support" Team has to be fast-tracked into the Oxymoron Hall of Fame.

Welcome to the all the newcomers. Help yourselves to the hope, encouragement and support. There's plenty.

literary lola

01-11-2005, 11:36 PM

...or I'll join Grace in the cry-fest.

Q: How do you recognize a PA author?
A: There is a permanent indentation in their forehead from smacking it so hard and boot prints in their derriere from “taking that tone” with Mr. Meiners.

Ah, the hell with it. Grace, move over and hand me a tissue.

TuppGal

01-11-2005, 11:45 PM

I just reallly want out of that contract. I mailed to everyone I thought might help in that. I heard that when PA hears from the BBB they release you from the contract *hears hoping*. At least I know I was good enough to be published in a real venue and that I have three books to complete this year for various publishers. Sad though that this one may slip away.

I can't believe they talk to you like a 3 yr old as if they were your mother. How unprofessional can you get? LOL

Tina

ByGrace

01-11-2005, 11:47 PM

MP did not tell me this in writing. It was verbal.

Yes, like everything else PA comes up with Independence Books faded away. I don't think they are doing it anymore. I heard from another author that they were upset that Jamie Farr's childrens book had copies returned. Ah, the love of the Almighty dollar is the root of all evil.

snarzler

01-11-2005, 11:55 PM

I was wondering what had happened to the Farr's book!

I wonder how satisfied they are now?

Andrea 0]

bikrpreacher

01-12-2005, 12:09 AM

Hi everyone.
It is good to see the new PA authors over here. Thank you to you who talked to me personally here...terrible memory and when you are posting a message, you cannot go back and look at another page.

It is good to be out in the open.

It is wonderful that the AG got back with you Dee, persistence paid off. Did they ever get or reply at all to your request, or was the entire thing fixed? Interesting.

I have begun to tell friends, (family already knew), about publishamerica. I am finding that they are very understanding, and since they all have read my book, they think PA is terrible and do not think I am terrible. They tell me better luck next time and whom are you going to publish with next. I thought I would throw that in for you folks that are worried about how your family and friends will feel when/if they find out, remember, it's never as bad as we think it will be, and they are hearing it from you instead of a newspaper...it may be wise to come clean and tell your people now. Just say, "Boy, you are not going to believe what I found out but..."

I am so impressed with the absolutewrite crowd, I have gotten so much support here, emails as well as posts on this board. I will mention that I have not had any bad emails from PA authors and I do know that they know I'm here. Of course, I havent been to the boards so don't know if they are talking about me or not. I like all of the authors over there a lot, once you get the information presented here it's very hard to read the messages though, I'm glad I'm not allowed to post anymore. No more lies.

I am glad that I am getting nice emails from my author friends over there at PA...you are always welcome.

Those who were crying...okay, you'll stop, you'll calm down, you'll live through this and be better for it, we all will.

Chris

FM St George

01-12-2005, 12:14 AM

I hear your pain, Chris - it was a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach when I realised that I'd been conned... and I'm not stupid!

PA does a very good job of twisting words so that you sign the contract and then twist them around again so that you either can't get out of the contract or, as in my case, you get a release if you sign a gag order. Obviously, I didn't.

:lol

it's hard to deal with the fact that you've been taken, but that's what PublishAmerica relies on - that you'll be too ashamed to pursue any other venues, legal or otherwise. You'll just sit back and cower in your corner, too embarassed to tell other authors about your experiences and try to warn them off. And if you do speak up, you're banned and labelled a whiner and a loser by the PAvidians who either are still in the honeymoon phase or those older authors who have dove in with PA so deep that they believe their own lies.

but we ARE making a difference. There ARE authors deciding not to go with PA based on this thread (among others on other forums) and PA IS losing business thanks to the tireless efforts of not only ex-PA authors, but others in the business who can't stand to see naive authors drug down into the slimy depths of the monster that is PA...

sheesh... I should go write something!

:rollin

bluwinteryfox

01-12-2005, 12:16 AM

Tina, I sent letters to the FTC, the BBB, the AG and one other place. At the same time I sent PA a certified letter requesting they release my book. I got the release papers, via certified letter with the gag order, which I refuse to sign. I then sent letters again to the BBB and the AG. I received an email from PA telling me they would not remove the gag order. I had a letter from the BBB that asked me to say if the complaint was fixed, the parties were working on it one other which I forget, and that PA was didn't want to work on it- that's the one I checked. I received another letter from the BBB saying that PA refuses to do anything so my complaint remains on file as open.

So I'm not sure sending a letter to the BBB will work, it may but you may get the gag order. Some have signed it others haven't.

LynnEtte

Gravity

01-12-2005, 12:16 AM

Sorry about your PA treament. If it's any consolation (and it's cold comfort, I know), the email you recieved from The Logo is the same standard boilerplate reply they send everybody. It's hard not to take personally, but try. They really aren't worth your time.

John (a former PA'er who's moved on with other books)

bikrpreacher

01-12-2005, 12:17 AM

I wanted to add one thing...so far

We cannot get our books in stores because the bookstores say we are POD. Listen, it doesn't matter what publishamerica says POD means to this company...what matters is what the bookstores say it means.
In an earlier post someone I think was talking about having to promote your books in the future, even with traditional publishers, but there is a difference in selling your book to a bookstore because you believe in it and you are with a publisher that the bookstore is allowed to order from. No matter what someone might think of you as a PA author, no matter how much they might like you, if the top of their branch says they do not stock POD books, you are out.

Chris

TuppGal

01-12-2005, 12:30 AM

Does the gag order state you can't bad mouth PA or you can't get the book published elsewhere? I don't mind shutting up if I can get my book into the right hands...

And thanks for the certified letter thing, I will do that. I would be interested in knowing what you said that made them release you.

*goes to draft a letter*

Tina

edit: What is the address to send it to? I can't seem to find it just the email addresses for all their little brainwashed bots...

DeePower

01-12-2005, 12:50 AM

Paragraph 7 has the 'gag' order and it also has a clause which says you can't reveal the contents of the agreement or show it to any third party including a publisher. So you have the rights to your book back but you can't tell a publisher that you do because that would be revealing the contents of the agreement.

Whether it would stand up in court -- who knows.

Dee

SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND RELEASE

This Settlement Agreement and Release (“Agreement” or “Settlement Agreement”) is made this xx Day of xxx, 200x, by and between PublishAmerica, LLLP (“Publisher”), and Xxxxx Xxxxx (“Author”) who shall collectively be identified as the “Parties” herein.

RECITALS

WHEREAS, Publisher and Author entered into a contract whereby Publisher agreed to publish Author’s book, Xxxx Xxxx Xxxx (the “Work”), according to the month day, year, agreement (“Publishing Contract”).
WHEREAS, all parties are desirous of terminating the Publishing Contract.

1. Mutual General Releases
In consideration of the agreements and covenants contained herein, Author, on behalf of himself, his predecessors, successors, assigns, affiliates, heirs, family members, administrators, executors, trustees, directors, officers, employees, partners, attorneys, agents, representatives, and associates hereby fully and forever releases, remises, acquits and discharges Publisher, and their predecessors, successors, assigns, affiliates, heirs, family members, administrators, executors, trustees, directors, officers, employees, partners, attorneys, agents, representatives, and associates from any and all claims, demands, liabilities, actions or causes of action of any kind of character, at law or in equity, whether known or unknown, accrued or not, present or future, in connection with, arising out of or in any way involving the Publishing Contract including any pre-contract and post-contract representations.
In consideration of the agreements and covenants contained herein, Publisher, on behalf of themselves, their predecessors, successors, assigns, affiliates, heirs, family members, administrators, executors, trustees, directors, officers, employees, partners, attorneys, agents, representatives, and associates hereby fully and forever releases, remises, acquits and discharges Author and his predecessors, successors, assigns, affiliates, heirs, family members, administrators, executors, trustees, directors, officers, employees, partners, attorneys, agents, representatives, and associates from any and all claims, demands, liabilities, actions or causes of action of any kind of character, at law or in equity, whether known or unknown, accrued or not, present or future, in connection with, arising out of or in any way involving the Publishing Contract including any pre-contract and post-contract representations.

2. Transfer of Publication Rights and Release of Publication Obligations.
In consideration of the agreements and covenants contained herein, the Publishing Contract is deemed terminated and of no further force or effect. All rights to publish, sell or export, or cause to be published, sold or exported, the Work, including but not limited to print or book publication, motion picture, film, video, television and/or any other electronic or computer video medium are deemed released and revert back to Author. Publisher is deemed released from all their obligations under the Publishing Contract (or any other duty implied by law), including the obligation to manufacture, market, advertise or distribute the Work. Author is deemed released from all of his obligations under the Publishing Contract.

3. Entire Contract
This Agreement constitutes the entire understanding of the parties hereto, and they shall not be bound by any terms, covenants, conditions or representations not expressly contained in this Agreement.

4. Modifications Only By A Writing
This Agreement may not be modified or changed orally, but only by an agreement in writing signed by the Parties.

5. No Admission of Liability
The parties understand and agree that nothing in this Agreement shall be construed or taken as an admission of liability on the part of any of the Parties.

6. Counterparts
This Agreement may be signed in counterparts.

7. Confidentiality and Non-Disparagement Provision
Each party acknowledges and agrees, promises, covenants and warrants that from this time forward they will not at any time exhibit, reveal or show this Agreement (including drafts) or its contents to a third party, or Publisher. Author agrees that he, his agents, attorneys, employees or family members, will only represent that the relationship between Author and Publisher was “dissolved amicably” and will not disparage Publisher in any manner whatsoever, or host and maintain any Internet web sites whose content disparages Publisher in any manner whatsoever.
Publisher agrees that they, their agents, attorneys, employees or family members, will only represent that the relationship between Publisher and Author was “dissolved amicably” and will not disparage Author in any manner whatsoever, or host and maintain any Internet web sites whose content disparages Author in any manner whatsoever.

If suit is filed to enforce any part of this Confidentiality and Non-Disparagement Provision, or otherwise seek redress for breach of this Provision, the prevailing Party or Parties shall be entitled to recover all his/their attorneys’ fees relating to the dispute.

PUBLISHAMERICA, LLLP

Dated:_______________________ By:________________________________
(signature)

Author Name

Dated:_______________________ By:________________________________
(signature)

ProandCon

01-12-2005, 12:55 AM

www.publishamerica.com/cg.../11351.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11351.htm)

"I used the professional services of John Weaver (no relation) this past year and the man did more for me than what the original agreement called for. As a matter of fact, I almost begged him to continue, hoping he could eventually get my book placed into brick and mortar book stores.

Unfortunately he graciously bowed out, explaning that because of PublishAmerica's no-return policy, he didn't feel right accepting money from me when he knew there was little chance of him succeeding."

"But to trash others when you have no first hand knowledge is no different than what's already being done out there by the lunkheads and know-it-alls who keep bashing PublishAmerica, calling it a vanity press and a scam."

This acknowledgment should be the nail in the coffin finalizing his PublishAmerica cheer-leading yet he keeps holding on to his dream while saying everyone but PublishAmerica is at fault. I couldn't imagine him signing a contract knowing that his book would be excluded from most brick and mortar bookstores. The honeymoon will be over someday. Most likely sooner than later.

Shame on you, PublishAmerica for severely limiting his efforts to be a successful author and for not treating all PA authors the old fashioned way.

It's good to see some of the hundreds of PublishAmerica authors who are quietly reading this thread finally coming out to speak out against the PublishAmerica business model.

P&C
Staying Close To My Non-Traditional Publisher, PublishAmerica

bikrpreacher

01-12-2005, 12:57 AM

Dee: "So you have the rights to your book back but you can't tell a publisher that you do because that would be revealing the contents of the agreement."

Why is this important? If you get the rights to your book back, and you submit it to another real publisher, would it ever be asked if you had the rights? I have no idea what happens if you get them back and want to get the book published somewhere else, does anyone ever do that?

Thanks,
Chris

James D Macdonald

01-12-2005, 01:12 AM

If you get the rights to your book back, and you submit it to another real publisher, would it ever be asked if you had the rights.

Yes. The next publisher, knowing that this is a reprint, would want to know that you had the rights in order to sell it to them. (If you sold rights which hadn't been reverted, bad things would happen to both you and the new publisher.)

You'd routinely be asked to include a copy of the reversion letter from the last publisher along with your contract with the new one.

bikrpreacher

01-12-2005, 01:21 AM

Thank you. Then publishamerica is really trying to tie the authors hands, sort of a if we can't have it no one else can either. Figures.

Publishamerica really knew what they were doing when they set out to deceive. It is like they let you out, but they don't let you out...there should be a 'gag me with a spoon' icon.

Chris

Gravity

01-12-2005, 01:24 AM

So with that little piece of written bolus in your possession, how in the Sam Scratch could one ever hope to get their book published by a real firm?? Sheesh, that's the most Catch-22 thing I've ever heard...outside of the real Catch-22. Man!!

John (shaking his head...)

D James

01-12-2005, 01:24 AM

I have reason to believe that out of the 12,000 happy authors, only six books are in the Independence program.

And it seems that it's *still* up to the authors to get their books placed in bookstores.

WG

ProandCon

01-12-2005, 01:26 AM

"You'd routinely be asked to include a copy of the reversion letter from the last publisher along with your contract with the new one."

Does this mean that PublishAmerica wants to turn the knife in your back one last time out of vindictiveness by stopping you from getting your book published elsewhere?

bikrpreacher

01-12-2005, 01:29 AM

And whenever someone comes on the pa boards and says they can't get books into stores because it is a POD, there are five who chime in and say, "NO, that's not why, it's the no return policy."

Sher2

01-12-2005, 01:29 AM

Publishamerica really knew what they were doing when they set out to deceive. It is like they let you out, but they don't let you out...there should be a 'gag me with a spoon' icon.

If there's one thing you can count on with PA, it's that everything they do benefits them and only them.

Sher2

01-12-2005, 01:31 AM

Does this mean that PublishAmerica wants to turn the knife in your back one last time out of vindictiveness by stopping you from getting your book published elsewhere?

It sure sounds that way, doesn't it, P&C? It's like they give with one hand and take back with the other. They might let you go, but you have nowhere to go.

TuppGal

01-12-2005, 01:32 AM

The publisher that I am with now is the one that told me about PA's dishonest practice and sent me here. That being said, he's told me if I get free of them to send him the manuscript. I shouldn't have problems with a gag order if this is my scenario correct??

Still looking for the PA address to send my certified letter if anyone has that lying around. you can PM me or post it here. Or email me at tinasam69 at hotmail dot com.

Tina

DaveKuzminski

01-12-2005, 01:34 AM

With the gag, it's just one more way for PA to punish you for wanting to leave. Kind of like, if we can't have it and your money, then no one can have it.

D James

01-12-2005, 01:35 AM

"Yes. The next publisher, knowing that this is a reprint, would want to know that you had the rights in order to sell it to them."

<a href="http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm32.showMessage?topicID=24.topic" target="_new">Anyone remember this link?</a>

Valena Graham

01-12-2005, 01:36 AM

You can include the email from PA, if you recieved one. Or a copy of the paper or gag order. But there is another way. Change the title, and charactors names. Change the book to some degree, and perhaps use a different name for yourself. Then send it out, not saying anything about PA. Any publisher will see you as a first time author anyway, even with the knowledge that you were taken by PA. The book is now different, and why make any publisher wonder why you were with PA in the first place. Give your book the chance to succeed.

ProandCon

01-12-2005, 01:52 AM

"The publisher that I am with now is the one that told me about PA's dishonest practice and sent me here. That being said, he's told me if I get free of them to send him the manuscript. I shouldn't have problems with a gag order if this is my scenario correct??"

TuppGal,

You need to consult with an attorney before making your decision to get out of your PA contract and then try to publish your book with another publisher.

It does appears that you could publish your book with a new publisher as long as your new publisher doesn't ask to see the PA release agreement which, according to Mr. Macdonald, the request to see the release agreement will most likely happen to verify your book is actually contractually free to be published again.

If you show the signed and agreed upon release agreement to your new publisher, you are technically in violation of the provisions of the agreement. PublishAmerica could possibly sue you for damages.

Again, you really need to seek legal advice.

P&C

TuppGal

01-12-2005, 01:58 AM

I can't afford an attorney. I guess I just wait and see if I get a gag order and if so if they will ask me for a copy of the release or just take my word for it.

I did notice on the gag section this clause:
Author agrees that he, his agents, attorneys, employees or family members, will only represent that the relationship between Author and Publisher was “dissolved amicably” and will not disparage Publisher in any manner whatsoever, or host and maintain any Internet web sites whose content disparages Publisher in any manner whatsoever.

So technically I can say I was "dissolved" of my "relationship". It fits their specifics and yet will mean the same.

Tina

I will be changing the title and adding to it. Its nonfiction so I can play around with the headings, chapters, etc and like has been said before no one but PA will know its the "same" book and they won't be able to say anything or break their own gag order. I just wish it was over.

bikrpreacher

01-12-2005, 02:03 AM

It sounds to me like, (but I don't know much!), if the publisher sent her here, he knows about who she was published with, could he publish her book knowing without asking her for the proof? No one would be in trouble then would they. It sounds like he would not ask.

I love the re-write idea, thanks for posting that thread, I have been working on mine since reading it and thinking about that post all day.

DaveKuzminski

01-12-2005, 02:06 AM

Yes, but can you trust PA not to claim that comments made now were not in accordance with the later agreement? PA has already demonstrated that they don't honor contract dates by continuing to sell books that were released. They might still try to sue you for things you stated before the reversion that you didn't go back and delete. In fact, some forums don't have delete options, so you'd be stuck trying to get those removed.

Also, if PA hears of anyone not signing with them because you recommended against it, you'd still be disparaging them. In other words, they'd be taking away much of your freedom of speech.

By the way, PA won't know if it's the same book or not should you change things to get it published properly. After all, they usually don't read beyond page 30.

TuppGal

01-12-2005, 02:08 AM

Precisely. He was the one that told me never to mention I was published there cause they aren't a real publisher and are blacklisted by several publishers. He told me to check them out really good (by that time I had a contract signed and it was too late I thought). He has published one of my books and has two others in Acquistions. He pays a royalty and an advance, lol, so its like heaven compared to PA. So yea. I think that with a new title and a new format, and added chapters, it will be ok. After all I will have the paperwork stating that it is my work to do with what I wish.

But first I have to get out of the damned contract! lol

BIKRPREACHER hi there, I knew you vaguely from reading the PA boards, I never posted there much as I was sickened by the lack of posters knowing how to spell. Hope that you are doing well and seeing light at the end of your PA tunnel as well.

Tina

TuppGal

01-12-2005, 02:11 AM

The only place I've said a bad word about PA is here and to them via email. I don't want to bash, I want things to change.

And I literally blew coke all over my monitor at the "they usually don't read past page 30" as I remembered the "300 page novel" that was only the first 30 pages done 10 times. Thanks for the laugh!

bikrpreacher

01-12-2005, 02:18 AM

Hi Tina.
LOL, I think everyone over there knows me before they even get a password...I talk, uh, type a lot.
I'm not worried anymore, being here has helped me more than I thought. I have learned more here that's for sure. I really did not learn anything about the publishing business from there at all; the only thing I learned from this experience is that I sure can get myself into a mess!

I cannot even say, well, at least my story got out there, because it really did not...only to a few.

Chris

PS Good for you for finding a publisher to talk to!

Kate St Amour

01-12-2005, 02:21 AM

Dee,
I'll forward you the response they sent to me when I questioned why they sent an email. I posted their response on this thread a while back, but now that things are unraveling, I think it would benefit the PTB to have the source code and more documentation. ):

bikrpreacher

01-12-2005, 02:21 AM

www.publishamerica.com/cg.../11460.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11460.htm)

Someone want to run over there and help this one out?
She is a very sweet girl.
I tried, I can't, I'm still banned...(I knew that).

Kate St Amour

01-12-2005, 02:31 AM

Unfortunately, just writing the BBB isn't enough. Heck, I'm quoted in Publisher's Weekly and they won't give me my rights back.
I'm glad you found your way here though, (Hello to you too, Grace.) because together we can all make a difference.

TuppGal

01-12-2005, 02:42 AM

Kate... Have you sent them a certified letter requesting it? Just trying to find the "magic bullet" that may work. I wrote the BBB, the AG, the FTC, and the County Board of Commissioners. Plus the website for ripoff report. I am mailing the certified letter tomorrow. I am attempting every agency that may contact PA and irk them enough to remove me as a potential thorn in their side. I've removed all mention of that book on my website, my email signature, etc.

Tina

XThe NavigatorX

01-12-2005, 02:45 AM

I was sent this email and have permission to post:

Peggie McKee does not work for the Office of the Attorney General. There is no Haggerstown office. The Baltimore office has no position of Citizens Response Coordinator. All of the offices have email, internet and government database access.

Oh for crying out loud.

Could someone please look at me and tell me if I have a "commit felonies against this person!" tattoo on my forehead? The year is eleven days old, and it's already becoming a pattern.

I've never had any desire to become involved in any of this beyond my daily, over obsessive voyeurism. Now I have to start making phone calls and stuff. Cripes.

Kate St Amour

01-12-2005, 02:46 AM

I haven't sent a certified letter yet, I have a few other things in the works though.

James D Macdonald

01-12-2005, 03:02 AM

You might try going to Google and searching on "Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts."

Also, look in the index thread for legal help and lawyers.

bikrpreacher

01-12-2005, 03:03 AM

Wow, a felony...someone check and see if my name is on that bogus letter...

D James

01-12-2005, 03:27 AM

"If you show the signed and agreed upon release agreement to your new publisher, you are technically in violation of the provisions of the agreement. PublishAmerica could possibly sue you for damages."

I can't see PA going that far, really. Do you think they'd want their business practises brought out into the open like that? They do well because they float just under the radar screen.They know it.

Of course, like Jim, I'm not a lawyer, nor I do I play one on TV.

D James

winniemitzandme

01-12-2005, 03:38 AM

When I received my release, yes with #7 in it, nothing about the book, just about keeping quite and saying nothing bad about the publisher, I sent an email to Ingrams, LSI and typed in the first two sections of the release form where PA had released me from contract, and told them they could contact PA if they wanted to to confirm my release. I did NOT notify PA of what I was doing.

In this email I notified Ingrams and LSI that if they printed one copy of the book of which I had been released with PA from I would file a law suite against them for copyright infringement.

I also sent to B&N, BAM and Amazon this same email, of course placing their names in the email instead of Ingram, LSI informing them if they sold one copy of the said book and telling them they could contact PA to verify this, that I would file law suite against them as well. B&N and BAM removed said book the next from their .com bookstore, the only place it was available, and Amazon has 5 'new and used copies' which I am thinking about buying them up, then sending them another email telling them what I have done and to remove book from their listing.

I also notified PA with this same email, they removed the book the same day.

A couple of weeks after sending the email to Ingrams, LSI, I received a phone call from PA who told me that Ingram, LSI had notified them my book had been removed from their ordering system. Remember, I never told PA what I was doing. I have since called Ingram, LSI and sure enough, my book is no longer listed.

I do not fear PA nor any of the people who works for them, they want to do anything to me for typing the portion of that agreement into the body of the emails I sent off to those companies, bring it on!

The way I look at this thing, our books were never in any bookstores for the general public to walk in, pick up and read. The only place there were/are found are on the .com book sites and PA, no biggie.

I will say this. I have changed the title of that book, changed the characters names and now a real publisher is reading it, that's all I will say about that.

Violet

Sher2

01-12-2005, 04:05 AM

I will be changing the title and adding to it. Its nonfiction so I can play around with the headings, chapters, etc and like has been said before no one but PA will know its the "same" book and they won't be able to say anything or break their own gag order.

Hey, Tina, nice to see you again. Is this the "yummies" book we're talking about?:)

I wouldn't worry about PA knowing it's the same book; it's not like they read your manuscript.

BeckEaston

01-12-2005, 04:06 AM

You can add yourself to the "real" petition that continues to go out. I do have someone I am talking with and Ann & Dee are the some of the most persistent authors here. They'll help. Dee even has a lawyer who is interested in your story. Welcome to our world. You can always email me and I'll add your story to the hundreds out there. RebeccaEaston@Comcast.net (RebeccaEaston@Comcast.net)

Zazopolis

01-12-2005, 04:35 AM

Chris,

Are you even happy to see me here?

Hah! I bet.

Bob

bikrpreacher

01-12-2005, 04:38 AM

To be truthful, I smile every time I see your icon...

Chris

TuppGal

01-12-2005, 04:43 AM

hi Sherrie, Yes it is. Sigh.

On the bright side though I'm doing quite well with all my other manuscripts, lol..

Thanks all

CaoPaux

01-12-2005, 05:46 AM

I fear another is speeding toward the reality checkpoint:

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/7237.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/7237.htm)

bikrpreacher

01-12-2005, 05:55 AM

I saw that and almost posted it. Very sad to read.

DaveKuzminski

01-12-2005, 06:21 AM

Violet, PA has already broken their release agreement on several occasions. They've ordered the printing and sold books they no longer has rights to and they've permitted people to comment negatively in the PA forum about those authors who left after getting a reversion. The reversion's gag provisions do prohibit permitting any aspersions from taking place in a site either party operates.

But like I've said, PA's broken their reversion agreement on several occasions.

By the way, here's a site with a list of volunteer lawyers who work with the arts: dwij.org/matrix/vla_list.html (http://dwij.org/matrix/vla_list.html)

ProandCon

01-12-2005, 06:40 AM

D James Quote:
"I can't see PA going that far, really. Do you think they'd want their business practises brought out into the open like that? They do well because they float just under the radar screen.They know it.

Of course, like Jim, I'm not a lawyer, nor I do I play one on TV."

Possible bad advice to giving out there D James telling PA authors that you doubt PublishAmerica would most likely not sue them. Some PA authors may not see violating stipulations of the PA agreement as a serious issue and may thinks it's worth the gamble to violate the PA agreement after reading your comments.

Who knows what PA may do as the noose tightens or a book released from their publishing house becomes a best seller.

You somewhat saved yourself by saying you were not a lawyer after giving out your shoot from the hip advice.

Bottom line:

Consult a lawyer to protect yourself.

Would actually changing the names of the characters, book title and pen name of a nonfiction book actually be enough to say it's a new publishable book? Would PA come after you? Do you like to gamble?

P&C

Ed Williams 3

01-12-2005, 06:43 AM

...let me extend a personal, Juliette, Georgia welcome. I normally post a good bit here, but I was in Las Vegas this past weekend and was in Atlanta today. Hopefully my butt will be in one place for a few days now.

I took a look at the PA boards before I came here, God, it is like the life has been sucked out of them. I wonder what's going on?

Back from Sin City, and wishing to return,

E3

:evil :evil :evil

D James

01-12-2005, 07:02 AM

"Possible bad advice to giving out there D James telling PA authors that you doubt PublishAmerica would most likely not sue them."

Never gave advice. I offered an opinion. For those who don't understand the difference, consult a lawyer before acting.

"Who knows what PA may do as the noose tightens or a book released from their publishing house becomes a best seller."

I doubt they'd know it's the same book.

"You somewhat saved yourself by saying you were not a lawyer after giving out your shoot from the hip advice."

Again, I offered my opinion. There's a huge difference.

"Would actually changing the names of the characters, book title and pen name of a nonfiction book actually be enough to say it's a new publishable book? Would PA come after you? Do you like to gamble?"

Personally, I'll wait out my contract. I have enough in the works that I can feel confident doing that.

However, I don't fear PA coming after me with a lawsuit. Why? They have too much to lose.

Just a point ... I never suggested that anyone change their book and submit it to another publisher. I simply reminisced about an old posting of Jim MacDonald's.

D James

Risseybug

01-12-2005, 07:16 AM

We can all see where this will lead, can't we???

www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/7222.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/7222.htm)

I'm not talking about the story itself, but the opinons. Opens the door for how the "media lies" to people and "they can't be trusted to get the whole story."

Yep, I see that thread re-surfacing as soon as any of the in the works media coverage hits the streets.

BeckEaston

01-12-2005, 07:32 AM

Who and what are they talking about. Did I miss something?

triceretops

01-12-2005, 07:46 AM

they're talking about the CBS employees who got fired because of the George Bush military service scandal--It was reported by Dan Rather, who is retiring after taking so much heat for this. Although it's actually debatable whether this
problem affected Rather's decision to early retirement.

Tri

DaveKuzminski

01-12-2005, 07:54 AM

Tomorrow, P&E goes hunting for bear. They want to play in the literary field, they get rated for it. Look for the entry on the New page late tomorrow night that will be dated 13 Jan 05.

vstrauss

01-12-2005, 08:03 AM

>> Peggie McKee does not work for the Office of the Attorney General. There is no Haggerstown office. The Baltimore office has no position of Citizens Response Coordinator.<<

There is a Hagerstown branch office. It's listed on the Contact page of the Maryland Attorney General website: www.oag.state.md.us/contact.htm (http://www.oag.state.md.us/contact.htm) and also on the page that lists Consumer Protection Division offices: www.oag.state.md.us/Consumer/offices.htm (http://www.oag.state.md.us/Consumer/offices.htm)

There also is a Peggy McKee, Citizens Response Coordinator...in the Baltimore Office of the Attorney General. Here's her online phone directory listing: www.dbm.state.md.us/phone...87&OID=149 (http://www.dbm.state.md.us/phonebook/IndDetails.asp?EmpID=33487&OID=149)

All of this took me about 10 minutes to find out using Google. I really think we're going a bit far afield with the conspiracy theories here.

- Victoria

BeckEaston

01-12-2005, 08:18 AM

I can just see you saying that. You sound like a cartoon. I have laughed so much today, I can hardly stand it. So, what's this mysterious hunting bear link?

Oh and thanks above for clarifying. I thought that's what it might be, but I wanted to make sure that I was on target. That Marti is really something. That case she wrote about was close to home for me. Her book, the clues, the research leaves a lot to be desired. (Sorry Simon, it does. I live in here too and it’s not at all what she portrays it to be.)

SimonSays

01-12-2005, 08:21 AM

Beck - I assume you are apologizing to another Simon.

This one knows nothing about Marti or her book.

DaveKuzminski

01-12-2005, 08:22 AM

Just listing their legal firm. ;)

winniemitzandme

01-12-2005, 08:49 AM

Dave, one thing I failed to mention here, this publisher who is reading my ms, I didn't say anything about it being printed or released with PA, so no reason to show or say anything about anything to do with PA.

If this publisher wishes to publish the ms, haven't heard anything back yet, and if they edit it more than what I had done, then it will most likely change even more from what it was with PA. This is what I'm hoping for, they might even see where the story can be added to, making it even further from what it was with PA. In the end, I am hoping for, making the book nothing like what PA printed and therefore causing the release to be mute point anyway.

I did send the ms to two other publishers and did tell them it had been realesed from PA but didn't offer any other details, only the email with PA's email address, where in the email they stated they had agreed to release me. Nothing wrong with showing that.

Violet

CaoPaux

01-12-2005, 09:17 AM

I really think we're going a bit far afield with the conspiracy theories here.
Aw, shucks. :o

But that does bring it back to: what the heck did the AG receive?

James D Macdonald

01-12-2005, 09:17 AM

One is, if you're planning to go to court, go with clean hands. No matter what the other guy did, don't you arrive vulnerable to any accusations of shady practices yourself.

The other is, when you're dealing with legitimate editors and publishers, deal with them honestly. You want them to deal honestly with you, right?

priceless1

01-12-2005, 09:58 AM

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I didn't say anything about it being printed or released with PA, so no reason to show or say anything about anything to do with PA.<hr></blockquote>
To which Jim replied:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>No matter what the other guy did, don't you arrive vulnerable to any accusations of shady practices yourself.<hr></blockquote>
Violet, Jim gives good advice here. You owe it to whomever you're submitting to be honest and upfront. As a rule, I always do a check on titles that cross my desk. If I find that it's already in print, or was in print and the author failed to divulge that information, their submission hits my trash can faster than I can grease my eyelids.

Honesty and honor go both ways.

Just my opinion. Back to lurk-mode.

XThe NavigatorX

01-12-2005, 09:59 AM

Thanks, Victoria. I was beginning to figure that out when my reply didn't bounce. You rock.

I'm going to try to get my hands on a copy of the original petition.

HapiSofi

01-12-2005, 02:15 PM

"If you show the signed and agreed upon release agreement to your new publisher, you are technically in violation of the provisions of the agreement. PublishAmerica could possibly sue you for damages."That's just plain ridiculous. The whole point of a reversion letter is that you can give a copy of it to your next publisher so they'll know you've got the rights back. If you can't show it to them, it's not a functional reversion letter. Furthermore, how's PA going to know whether you showed it to them or not?

I'd ignore that provision. I think it's just PA yanking your chain: one last parting bit of manipulation and abuse.

winniemitzandme

01-12-2005, 06:29 PM

I shall notify this publisher this morning of this ms once being in the hands of PA. Of course doing so may kill it, but so be it, I had thought about doing this, now I will.

Of course, doing so may cause this publisher to decide to trash my ms, but at least they will have that option.

Violet

HapiSofi

01-12-2005, 07:01 PM

Yeah. You can overlook a prior submission history, but you have to come clean on prior publication history. You don't ever want to have an editor catch you in a fib before the contract is signed. It gives them the heebie-jeebies, because untruthful authors are so difficult and hazardous to work with. Of course, you shouldn't fib to them at all; but pre-contract, it's disastrously offputting.

Also: If your book sold a remarkably high number of copies for a PA title, play that up; otherwise, play down your sales. This may seem unintuitive. What you're emphasizing is that this is a clean market: so few people saw your book that it might as well be new. Do mention that the few people who read it really enjoyed it, assuming they did.

BeckEaston

01-12-2005, 10:00 PM

Advocates pay attention to Dave's post and contact legal representatives should you already have one. This is awesome Dave!

Navigator I have the original petition. You can contact me, I made it.

Let me explain the problem. I sent in a petition way back in November this past year. I put on that petition around 130 names that contacted me with their story. Now, I knew some authors were unhappy, and I had their names to contact from this board and others, but those authors declined or I never heard back from them. So I never added them to my petition.

Once my petition was complete, I sent it to the AG office of Beth Silverman with a letter attached saying that basically we'd been ignored and that we wanted to "initiate an investigation based on numerous author complaints" and not just "dozens" as PA suggested in previous responses.

I got a letter from Beth's office that said just what you and I were sent in email. This is where it gets very confusing. I promise you that all my addresses are spelled correctly and all my documentation with their stories were attached to said petition. I also sent mine via postal mail.

I made absolutely sure to include a clause to keep all authors names confidential. Period. I promised to do that and I did. So, when I got that email that you received I was outraged!

First, I have theories on how they got some of the addresses I don't have and have misspelled ones or inaccurate ones, but I cannot say any of those for sure. What I do know is that when someone who seeks legal council asks for confidentiality it is given, and I doubt very seriously that Beth or Larry for that matter would disclose anything I sent to them. Why, or how they got the other email addresses is the big mystery.

What I am concerned with is that all this talk makes everyone think that I had something to do with it, and shoots my credibility and my word all to hell. Frankly I am getting rather agitated at the accusations that I wouldn't do exactly what I set out to do. I am pissed off that someone provided the AG with erroneous emails, and the AG Consumer Office sent out a blanket statement in answer to MY PETITION. (How did some get the email and others on my petition with correct addresses not get it?) I am livid that this happened. I have told the AG office so on many occasions. I even got my own email back.

I will say it again. I did not have any other author who DID NOT give me a synopsis of their choice to sign said petition on that petition. This is so ten ways to wrong, and very frightening what someone can do to a person's credibility.

snarzler

01-12-2005, 11:32 PM

Victoria

As the one who did the research regarding the email, I just have a few things.

1) I didn't try Google. I started with a blue directory and went up. I find that listings online are often very outdated.

2) I misspelled Hagerstown, it has one G and yes, there is an office there.

3) When I called the Baltimore office, I was told there was no person by that name or title there. Not "on vacation", that they didn't exist.
I could have 'lucked' into a new person, but given everything else they said, I had reason to believe the accuracy of that statement.

4) These complaints are handled by Postal Mail. Contact can be made through the website, but for official correspondence, paper is exchanged.
The person was aware of a complaint regarding PA and said they were "not in a position to know [of] an official decision" but there "probably hadn't been a reply yet".
When I asked about the email reply I was told "that would not have come from this office".

I'm not one for conspiracy theories regarding PA. I just think they were trying to discredit Beck and Dee (as the ringleaders)'s work and create a schism among those who are unhappy with and/or about PA.

Andrea

0]

AC Crispin

01-12-2005, 11:42 PM

Beck, I sure wish that a good percentage of the PA authors who signed your petition would get in touch with me.

I'll be getting into contact next week with the folks who have written to outline my strategy.

I will be sending off the copyedited ms. of my new book to Harper tomorrow. Then comes shoveling out the house, which I have rather "let go" for the last week.

This weekend I'll be working on pulling things together regarding my PA strategy.

So...it's not too late. Write to me, PA authors, at:

anncrispin@aol.com

We need a show of strength for this to have a chance to work. Right now I have maybe 50 names, which delights me, but the more the merrier!

-Ann C. Crispin

BeckEaston

01-13-2005, 12:01 AM

bluwinteryfox

01-13-2005, 12:22 AM

Becca, I know that you'd never do anything that would hurt anyone, especially any of us PA authors. I can see where you are gun shy though.

LynnEtte/Monique

StephanieCordray

01-13-2005, 12:32 AM

Frankly Ann, I'd actually send you the detailed outlines of each author complaints, (over 100) because all have said that they have no problem with sharing the information, and contacting authority. The problem is now that I am flat out gun-shy! I am being blamed for putting peoples names arbitrarily on a petition, and no one believes its accuracy anymore. I had the best intentions and feel I am at the top of a witch-hunt now. You know what. I went out of my way to do what I did and spent days and hours each day doing it. Now, I am pissed off, and frankly to tell the truth, disillusioned with authors who I thought were proactive in this fight. I'm just tired today.

Having come from one of those other groups you talked about earlier, I'm apalled that you are now under attack considering the huge amount of time and energy you have put into this.

You are all dealing with some very cagey, conniving, manipulating, and smart individuals with little to no conscience when it comes to bilking people. Conspiracy theories aside, I don't see how anyone cannot see what's happened here. It's not rocket science.

Unfortunately, you are the target of a witch hunt... a Publish America initiated one. Mispellings, misdirection, and subterfuge are their hallmarks. If those accusing you can't see that, then they are still in fear of the big bad wolf. You can't help them unless they are willing to help themselves.

NancyMehl

01-13-2005, 12:55 AM

Beck,

There is a concerted effort afoot to cause dissension in the ranks. Remarks are being posted in several forums that sound as if they are against PA - but they contain incorrect information - and are signed by PA employees. Of course, these are not real. They are just "off" enough to make people wonder what's going on. This attack is meant, I believe, to discredit those who speak out against PA. I have been the subject of several of these posts. Someone has taken a situation that was true and added some untruth to it. This makes it easier to say, "See, this story was completely false." The story wasn't false - but now it sounds untrue. I think this is exactly what is being done to you. Someone has sent an e-mail that purports to be from you - but with wrong information in an attempt to discredit your origninal information.

This is the action of someone who is desperate. You're on the right track - keep going. Authors with intelligence will recognize the truth and continue to support you.

I think you're incredible. You've got my respect.

Nancy Mehl
www.nancymehlbooks.com

Kate St Amour

01-13-2005, 01:12 AM

Becca,
The recent assaults on your character are just acts of desperation that will amount to nothing. Your actions and the petition remain above reproach, anyone who says otherwise can have a little meeting with me and my Xena sword--Woochaaa!

James D Macdonald

01-13-2005, 01:21 AM

Remember that Willem claims to have a background in psychology.

Expect ratf*cking. Don't let 'em get to you. This is a sign that you're getting to them.

FM St George

01-13-2005, 01:30 AM

Becca - *I* believe in you and that you had nothing to do with this bogus email. I did not sign the petition and yet I received the email, telling me that PublishAmerica put it out in order to start this type of gossip. The only way that email could have ended up in my mailbox was if it came FROM the PA logs, since I have not signed any petitions nor given my email out to those seeking various legal means against PA.

the truth is clear to me and I ain't no rocket scientist.

anyone who DOES believe this claptrap is just as likely to believe the rest of the lies that PA sends out.

*YOU* have nothing to apologize for and *YOU* are much, much better a person than anyone at PublishAmerica.

'nuff said.

peas, out.

vstrauss

01-13-2005, 01:55 AM

Nancy, which forums? I'd love to have a look at these postings.

With my posting about Hagerstown, etc., I didn't mean to cast any aspersions on Beck and Dee, who've worked so hard and done so much and have taken so much crap from PA and their band of running dog lackeys. You guys are heroes. I just think that--in part because of PA's documented evil tactics (of which I've more than once been a target)--there's a bit of a tendency to see everything even a little bit strange as part of the all-embracing evil. But sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

- Victoria

winniemitzandme

01-13-2005, 02:18 AM

Beca, I read the pain in your words and can almost feel your despaire. Don't allow this to happen. Don't allow that email or any other to drag you down, you really are a hero to so many of us.

I didn't receive the email but I did add my name to the petition. During that time I was silent on all boards, just reading and sending private email to a few people, maybe that's why I didn't receive the email, don't know.

I have since came to realize that no matter how silent I am, PA will have no more respect for me than they do for Victoria, Ann, Dave, Dee or Beca. I have came to the conculsion that the powers that be at PA don't even have the word 'respect' any where in their language.

I'm 100% behind you Becca, lean on my shoulder should you need one I can hold you up.

Violet

StephanieCordray

01-13-2005, 02:19 AM

Remember that Willem claims to have a background in psychology.

Expect ratf*cking. Don't let 'em get to you. This is a sign that you're getting to them.

I have a background in psychology, too. I totally agree with this statement. The mind games that PA plays are designed to do exactly what they are doing now, unless you recognize that fact and don't let it happen.

TuppGal

01-13-2005, 02:42 AM

I am behind you Becca and will let everyone know that I signed that petition. I'm not afraid to say it.

bluwinteryfox

01-13-2005, 04:25 AM

Becca says thanks to everyone for their support. She's got a sick child so she's tending to her child. Perhaps we should all send Becca an email telling her that we are behind her. Her email address has been posted on several of her previous posts.
LynnEtte

BeckEaston

01-13-2005, 04:29 AM

Thank you sincerely from the bottom of my heart. I appreciate all your kinds words. Yes, I have a sick child at home today and I too am feeling a bit down. So, I'll sign off for a while and check throughout, but ya'll have a fabulous day. I'm taking a much-needed break.

Again, thank you so much for your kind words and your support.

:D

NancyMehl

01-13-2005, 04:55 AM

Victoria,

I've found the message several places. I'm knee deep in year end reports for my "real job" right now, but I can give you these:

www.floridawriters.net

www.writersweekly.com

www.christinejanssen.net/guestbook.htm

There is another site that seems to have Japanese ties - and another site that is Goth, believe it or not. In every case, the message is signed by Miranda Prather.

You can find the two other sites by Googling with my name and Miranda's name.

The details of these posts are wrong. There was no 500 book order. I was only trying to get things in order with my book BEFORE I contacted Krogers. I did have a way in - and think I could have put the deal together. But there was no order. There are other facts that are somewhat twisted.

I'm sure Miranda Prather isn't pleased about these messages either. As I said in my message to Becca, someone is playing games - sowing seeds of discord, hoping those who oppose PA will self-destruct.

Thankfully, we're all a little more mature and committed than they give us credit for.

Nancy

Sher2

01-13-2005, 05:17 AM

I'm taking a much-needed break.

Enjoy your break, Becca -- which you've certainly earned -- and know that I'm behind you 100%.

ByGrace

01-13-2005, 06:10 AM

Every since I read the post by Publish America claiming that only 1% of books published make it into the bookstores, I've wanted to know the truth.

Would a publisher like Random House or Doubleday back this up? Does anyone know what the true percentage is? And don't you think this is just another tactic to calm PA authors down when they discover they cannot get their books into brick and mortar stores?

Last night I went to their "Why Publish America" page, having not read it in over two years. Here is what they are saying about bookstore. The word is tricky, enough to make someone think their book would be stocked, and enough for them to say that's not exactly what they said. It is deceitful and there is no place on their website where they say "WE HAVE A NO RETURN POLICY WITH BOOKSTORES!"

From the PA website:

The majority of our books that are sold retail are sold in physical brick and mortar bookstores. Tens of thousands of people and hundreds of our authors across the nation have purchased PublishAmerica books from physical brick and mortar bookstores.

bikrpreacher

01-13-2005, 06:53 AM

I might not understand why this is not just an outright lie that they couldn't get out of.
I tell you; I am just in unbelief that we cannot do something about all of this. What about a congressional representative? Does anyone think that would help to get in touch with our congressman and see if he cares?
I don't understand about petition either. Why the run-around.

AND I don't understand about a site forum that I was in earlier, I was trying to find out what in the world everyone is saying about the AG and the email, and I couldn't find a thing even on those links someone posted, am I just getting computer literate?

It seems to me that the people on these other sites are just spinning their wheels. It's hard to present facts to people who don't like you or what you represent, maybe that's why the hard time some are giving. I will not name names for the sake of not wanting to tempt anyone to remove this message, but there is one woman who has a site that I can hardly follow her reasoning! I know she has something to do with Marti and HB, but I can't even figure out WHAT!

Don't let these people side track you! It seems they are just trying to stay afloat.
As long as they can keep you talking to them, you aren't able to find anything else out. I was telling all of what I've learned here that backed up what I already knew to my husband, and he said that you just haven't found the right person yet…so, who can we go to next? I brought up congressman, who else might care?

Just in reading the other's posts, you all here are a head and shoulders above anything they have written, so, who else can we contact, what else can we do, where to go from here?

Another thing...why can't you call the AG office and get a person on the phone who read the petition and has some answers? Tell them you don't have time for the run around any more and that things are getting serious.

And, last but not least, please put my name on the petition, Chris Bartholomew.

PS I am working on something and I need to know if anyone has heard of America House Book Publishers.
Just that name exactly, not a variation.

Chris

TuppGal

01-13-2005, 07:11 AM

AmErica House (aka PublishAmerica.com): "A royalty publisher capable offering publishing contracts to all varieties of authors. Royalties paid, no fees ever charged, no agents required." PublishAmerica, Inc. contract formerly obtained all movie and book rights. Strongly not recommended.

American Book Publishers: a publisher. Located in Minnesota and New York? Charges fee. Not recommended.

American Book Publishing Group (formerly Forbes Publishing) aka American-Book.com: a book publisher featuring the following imprints: American Book Publishing*, American Book Classics*, American University Publishing*, Bedside Books*, and Millennial Mind Publishing*. (*Trademarks of American Book Publishing Group). Charges fee. This company has plagiarized authors in the past and abused trademarks, notably that of the real Forbes Publishing. Strongly not recommended.

American Book Publishing Group's contract contains a clause that penalizes their authors to the tune of $10,000 (yes, that's ten thousand US dollars) for stating or posting anything negative about American Book Publishing Group. P&E urges authors not to accept the American Book Publishing Group contract so long as it contains that section. Writers have a right to a fair contract.

---Preditors and Editors has the same type of listing as they do for PublishAmerica, mainly like this:

P&E Seeks Publishing Information
If you were published by American Book Publishing Group, have your royalty statements accurately reflected the number of books that you know were ordered?

The total of authors reporting inaccurate statements is: 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you were published by American Book Publishing Group, have you since decided you want out of their contract? If you have already been released from their contract, P&E would also like to know.

The total authors reported wanting out is: 0
and the total reported released is: 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you were published by American Book Publishing Group, do you feel your book was reasonably priced?

The total reported for Yes is: 0
and for No is: 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you were published by American Book Publishing Group, do you feel your book was properly edited by them?

The total reported for Yes is: 0
and for No is: 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you were published by American Book Publishing Group, are your books stocked in major bookstores as a result of ABPG's efforts?

The total reported for Yes is: 0
and for No is: 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you were published by American Book Publishing Group, how many copies of your book were sold through bookstores? Please include the book title and do not count copies you purchased directly using your author discount.

The total reported for More than 1000 is: 0
More than 100 is: 0
and for Less than 100 is: 0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total individuals responding to one or more of these questions: 0

bikrpreacher

01-13-2005, 07:19 AM

Is your reply in reference to my last post? If so, I already read this information in looking for America House Book Publishers.

I need to know if anyone has heard of America House Book Publishers by this name and no other, this question is not off topic of this board. I don't want to say more than that. I tried google, it doesn't come up.

TuppGal

01-13-2005, 07:24 AM

That is the only place I've ever seen or heard it. I thought that the $10,000 fine was a bit shocking after seeing it there though.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. My editor has never heard of them either and like I've stated, he's with a major publishing house.

DeePower

01-13-2005, 07:27 AM

Everybody take a deep breath. To all the new posters, welcome. To any PA author. No. Let me rephrase that. To any author who has been published by PublishAmerica, welcome to the Bewares Board.

I know first hand how difficult the decision is to realize that PublishAmerica is not what they seem to be. You are in good company. You're not stupid. You're not a pushover. You're not a whiner. You're not a loser.

I'm not much for cookies and tea, but hey, you want a glass of wine or a brewskie, I raise my glass to you. Welcome.

Dee
www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com (http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com)

bikrpreacher

01-13-2005, 07:29 AM

Thanks for trying though.

Some of the names on your post come close, but I need America House Book Publishers exactly. I probably need help with this, I have information and I don't what to do with it...lol, ugh.

Duncan J Macdonald

01-13-2005, 07:39 AM

Chris,

Typing in "America House Book Publishers" (with the quotes) into Google search will yeild some results.

One of note is from the seventh hit on the first page, a listing from Sewanee - The University of the South:

----------------------------------------------------------
Your Colleagues:Academic presses that have published work by your colleagues:

Academic International Press www.ai-press.com/ (http://www.ai-press.com/)
Harold Goldberg, 1993
America House Book Publishers www.publishamerica.com/ (http://www.publishamerica.com/)
Karl Fisher, 2004

----------------------------------------------------------

So, PublishAmerica does academic publishing as well, and has used that name as recently as last year.

R/
Duncan

Sher2

01-13-2005, 07:39 AM

I need to know if anyone has heard of America House Book Publishers by this name and no other, this question is not off topic of this board. I don't want to say more than that. I tried google, it doesn't come up.

America House is simply another imprint of PA. Some of their books are stamped with PA as the publisher, some with America House. It's the same outfit. PA started life as AmErica House, which was a vanity press with clients steered its way by Erica Books, a literary agency run by Erika Meiners, wife of Willem Meiners. Why the disparity, I don't know. Why does PA do ANYthing the way they do? I do, however, know of one book which, if you look it up on Amazon.com, PA is listed as the publisher, while BN.com lists the publisher as America House.

DaveKuzminski

01-13-2005, 07:42 AM

If your information is online, you can send a copy to me and I'll research it, contrary to what critics say about P&E.

CWGranny

01-13-2005, 07:45 AM

ByGrace,

PA makes the 1% of all books published ever show up in bookstores by factoring in the thousands and thousands of books published that are never MEANT to appear in bookstores. Books published to be distributed only WITHIN a specific organization. Books published to be distributed only to very select individuals. Books published to be distributed only a very specific events. I wrote a series of 20 books that were published and distributed with a toy company's line of dolls. They were never INTENDED to be found in bookstores. But they were published, no doubt about it. In hardbound.

However, PA says what they do to get you to believe they are only talking about books that people would LIKE to see distributed through bookstores -- namely books published by reputable publishers. If you are talking about real books meant to reach a general audience, this number falls apart, even when you factor in the bizillion POD operations out there. Even small reputable publishers get their books in bookstores -- every bookstore? No. But many, many, many.

Generally the books authors would like to see end up in bookstore but which do not, happen because the PUBLISHER doesn't really want them in the stores...or at least isn't willing to put any effort into getting them there.

gran

bikrpreacher

01-13-2005, 07:49 AM

Used it as recenly as this year...more than once. Thanks for the help! Quotes; learn something new here every day.

Okay, I'll be back. This is interesting. I'll probably be up all night, looking for something that may not be there in the morning now, but I'll explain later.

By the way, Dee, that was a very nice welcome, and I saw Ed Williams welcome also, read his article on site, very good.

Chris

BeckEaston

01-13-2005, 08:00 AM

I need to know if anyone has heard of America House Book Publishers by this name and no other, this question is not off topic of this board. I don't want to say more than that. I tried google, it doesn't come up.

It is Publish America. It is one of their titles that they are using right now through Lightning Source. Maybe they're trying to go from or to it to get their funds all tied up, I don't know. But it is PUBLISH AMERICA. Steer clear.

Send me your email address and I will gladly add you, Chris.

bikrpreacher

01-13-2005, 08:17 AM

DaveKuzminski ,I sent you a rather long message...

Beckeaston, sent you my email address...

bikrpreacher

01-13-2005, 08:25 AM

Sorry

bikrpreacher

01-13-2005, 08:30 AM

I posted a quote about a book that the author had not seen before so I erased it from here. My apologies to that author who wrote and questioned me about this.

I am not trying to find out information on any author, understand this PA authors, only the publisher.

Chris

bikrpreacher

01-13-2005, 08:53 AM

You said, "I do, however, know of one book which, if you look it up on Amazon.com, PA is listed as the publisher, while BN.com lists the publisher as America House."

How long has the book you are talking about here been out?

Thanks, chris

ByGrace

01-13-2005, 10:11 AM

If you go to Amazon.com click the Search box, then type in the publisher box Erica House, up comes 35 books. I remember these titles, from when I was searching for a publisher. I found Erica House, then was directed to the America House page.

Do the same search for America House, and 97 titles come up.

James D Macdonald

01-13-2005, 10:25 AM

BN.com lists all PA books as coming from America House.

PA and AmErica House are essentially the same thing.

bikrpreacher

01-13-2005, 12:37 PM

"BN.com lists all PA books as coming from America House."

My PA book is listed under publishamerica on B@N

bikrpreacher

01-13-2005, 12:43 PM

Sorry for the deletions everyone. I need to try to think about all sides before posting, this one wasn't important anyway.

bikrpreacher

01-13-2005, 12:58 PM

www.publishamerica.com/cg...s/2712.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/newauthors/2712.htm)

I guess the editors just don't know how to fix them.

FM St George

01-13-2005, 07:04 PM

www.publishamerica.com/cg...e/7259.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/7259.htm)

so even after getting a booksigning he still can't get the books...

sounds familiar.

:(

I'm waiting for the responses that tell him to simply max out his credit card, buy a few hundred and then try to resell them himself - of course, that's what all the *real* authors do.

*shakes head*

Arden19

01-13-2005, 07:29 PM

That's because the grammar check in Word is a joke. It wants to correct things that are already correct, and all the PA "editors" are doing is clicking "accept" or whatever it is that will insert whatever change Word recommends. My biggest advice to people about grammar is to say it out loud. If it sounds right, then it probably is. If it doesn't sound right, then guess what. ;)

Ed Williams 3

01-13-2005, 07:45 PM

...this poor PA author has actually opened up her own bookstore, stocking it with lots of PA books, and now has to tell everyone to stop sending books to her as her shelves are overflowing....

www.publishamerica.com/cg.../11455.htm (http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11455.htm)

She seems very nice and well intended, which is what infuriates me the most about PA. They take good people, abuse the hell out of them, and then lavish abuse on them if they dare complain. How incredibly sad.

James D Macdonald

01-13-2005, 07:49 PM

My PA book is listed under publishamerica on B@N

Okay, then. An awful lot of PA books -- all the ones I've checked -- are listed as coming from "America House" at BN.com.

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The grammatical error question: What happened to the PA editors who go over each manuscript carefully line-by-line and make thousands of corrections every day? (The grammar in that particular post wasn't too bad -- the poster used "two" for "too" and "your" for "you're," and misspelled "grammatical" -- but those are easy to fix.)

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The author who's unable to get books for his booksigning has two problems. First is that his book isn't available from wholesalers at all (I expect he's caught in the "One Source" problem). Second, the bookstore expects to get the books on a returnable basis. We know that isn't going to happen.

Now it's true that sometimes legitimately published authors can't get books for their booksignings. The usual reason is that they schedule the booksigning for the date of the book's release, not realizing that bookmaking is an industrial process, and it takes a while for cartons to make their way from the printing plant to the warehouse, then out to individual bookstores. (When you hear about major books with thousands of copies in stores on the first day, that means that the books were printed and shipped well in advance and held in a back room, embargoed until that date. That's extra time and trouble -- bookstores will do it for Harry Potter, but they won't do it for you and me.)