NYC plane-copter crash air controller on phone at the time [Archive]

blacbird

08-14-2009, 08:21 AM

Robert Toy

08-14-2009, 08:27 AM

Lyv

08-14-2009, 08:29 AM

The FAA's statement is in the linked article and is not as definitive as that.

Jersey Chick

08-14-2009, 08:30 AM

I saw the footage of that crash - awful...

dgiharris

08-14-2009, 08:39 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32410210/ns/us_news-life

How many dead people will it take for this country to recognize the hazard of phone-conversation addiction? Any number of studies have now indicated that cell-phone usage while driving is at least as dangerous as driving drunk, and quite possibly more so. WTF do people need to be talking on the telephone every damn waking moment??????????

caw

BUt that's other people. I, on the other hand, can multi-task. I'm super human, special, and posses enough skill so that the rules that apply to everyone else should not apply to me.

Until, that is, I get into an accident. Then of course, that is different. But until such time, I will continue to believe that i'm special and an exception to the rule. As does everyone else.

Besides, it's only for 'a second'

Mel...

blacbird

08-14-2009, 08:41 AM

The news also reported that the FAA stated that his being on the phone (and the absence of his supervisor) was not a contributing factor to the crash. The airspace where the crash occurred is VFR.

This sounds like complete ass-covering bullshit to me. Even if the airspace was VFR, an alert controller might have had the opportunity to issue a warning to either pilot. A few months ago we had the example of the train driver in LA who was proved to be texting to some random teeners and missed a stop signal, resulting in a head-on crash that killed him and 24 other people. 24 victims of one person's idiocy is more victims than George Hennard, James Huberty, Ed Kemper, Ed Gein, Gary Heidnik, Richard Ramirez, Arthur Shawcross, Danny Rolling, Charles Whitman, or Jack the Ripper killed.

I damn near got hit yesterday by a woman pulling out of a parking lot without looking my way while conspicuously jabbering on a cell phone glued to her ear. She smiled at me after I blasted the horn to get her attention, and flipped her off. I'm getting close to supporting the release of serial killers under the condition that they only kill people who insist on talking on cell phones while they drive.

caw

Robert Toy

08-14-2009, 08:48 AM

This sounds like complete ass-covering bullshit to me. Even if the airspace was VFR, an alert controller might have had the opportunity to issue a warning to either pilot. A few months ago we had the example of the train driver in LA who was proved to be texting to some random teeners and missed a stop signal, resulting in a head-on crash that killed him and 24 other people. 24 victims of one person's idiocy is more victims than George Hennard, James Huberty, Ed Kemper, Ed Gein, Gary Heidnik, Richard Ramirez, Arthur Shawcross, Danny Rolling, Charles Whitman, or Jack the Ripper killed.

I damn near got hit yesterday by a woman pulling out of a parking lot without looking my way while conspicuously jabbering on a cell phone glued to her ear. She smiled at me after I blasted the horn to get her attention, and flipped her off. I'm getting close to supporting the release of serial killers under the condition that they only kill people who insist on talking on cell phones while they drive.

caw
I agree 1000 % with people driving on the cell phones...burns my ass big time and I hope the state bans it and charges a $1000 fine

dgiharris

08-14-2009, 10:36 AM

I'm getting close to supporting the release of serial killers under the condition that they only kill people who insist on talking on cell phones while they drive.

caw

Just letting you know i'm stealing borrowing this for a story idea.

great stuff.

Mel...

p.s. You don't mind do you?

MattW

08-14-2009, 11:02 PM

It's not just drivers and air traffic controllers. I saw a bit of expose show where kids who were hired to run amusement park rides for the summer were texting/talking all day long on their cellphones.

My job has periods of mind numbing boredom too, but I know better than to whip out my iphone. And I'm not operating the brake system on a 50 year old Tilt-a-Whirl, or, you know, directing traffic in the busiest airspace in the country.

Jcomp

08-15-2009, 12:22 AM

I still don't understand how talking on the celly is any more of a distraction than having friends or bad ass kids in the car or trying to eat your breakfast in the car on the way to work. Somehow cell's have a harder stigma. Texting is some other stuff, because you're constantly looking at the screen. But unless you're trying to navigate somebody's terrible push-button automated menu through the phone you should be fine just talking.

Interestingly, the car is the only place where bluetooth should be acceptable. Otherwise you just look like a dweeb...

Edit: Or if you're driving stick without bluetooth. That's a no-no too...

Jersey Chick

08-15-2009, 12:26 AM

And then you make ME look like a dweeb because I think you're talking to me. :D

NJ banned cell phones while driving (hands-free only) - hasn't stopped any of the people I've seen.

quickWit

08-15-2009, 12:28 AM

NJ banned cell phones while driving (hands-free only) - hasn't stopped any of the people I've seen.

You shouldn't be looking at the other drivers on the phone while you're driving.

Stop being part of the problem, Jersey. :)

Jersey Chick

08-15-2009, 12:30 AM

But... but...

They are hawt!

Jcomp

08-15-2009, 12:31 AM

You shouldn't be looking at the other drivers on the phone while you're driving.

Stop being part of the problem, Jersey. :)

Hands on the wheel! Eyes on the road! Are you listening to NPR? Stop that! Too distracting! Only mindless, homogenized pop music!

quickWit

08-15-2009, 12:33 AM

Hands on the wheel! Eyes on the road! Are you listening to NPR? Stop that! Too distracting! Only mindless, homogenized pop music!

My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard...

Jersey Chick

08-15-2009, 12:33 AM

And then my eyes glaze over and I crash.

Why am I not seeing this as a solution? ;)

Fran

08-15-2009, 12:34 AM

Here it's a £60 fine (roughly $US90) and three points on your licence (12 points and you're banned from driving) for using a mobile while driving. It hasn't stopped any of the people I've seen either. I have absolutely no problem with people doing stupid stuff that might get them killed, but I object when what they're doing might kill other people.

dgiharris

08-15-2009, 12:39 AM

I still don't understand how talking on the celly is any more of a distraction than having friends or bad ass kids in the car or trying to eat your breakfast in the car on the way to work. Somehow cell's have a harder stigma.

When you talk on your cell phone, part of your brain 'imagines' the person there. Similarly, the act of holding the phone up to your ear while driving also takes away some of your cognitive abilty.

There is research being done on this, but the short answer is that when you are talking on the cell phone while doing a task, 'more' of your brain is allocated to the cell phone than would be allocated if the person was just in the room with you.

The simple act of holding the phone to your ear makes a HUGE difference in cognitive/observational ability.

Its one of those wierd brain things. For instance, move your right foot in a clockwise circle and at the same time try to move your right hand in a counter-clockwise circle. 98% of most people can't do this.

Basically, talking to someone next to you vs. holding a phone up to your ear and talking to that same person IS NOT the same as far as your brain is concerned. :Shrug:

As for eating and driving. That is completely different. The act of eating goes straight to the Reptile brain (lower brain function) and is much easier to compartimentalize/ignore allowing you to 'truly' multitask. Which is one reason why you tend to overeat while watching t.v., you aren't even paying attention to what you eat and before you know it, 'you've eaten it all'.

Mel...

quickWit

08-15-2009, 12:41 AM

And then my eyes glaze over and I crash.

Why am I not seeing this as a solution? ;)

One less driver on the road for me to worry about. That's a win-wi...

well, it's a win-, anyway.

:D

Lyv

08-15-2009, 12:48 AM

dgiharris, thank you for explaining that. I knew it was different, but "it just is" isn't a compelling argument. I was sure that it was more distracting, because I (disabled, walk with a cane or use a wheelchair) almost can't go out in public anymore because of people who are walking around while talking on cell phones. I might get grazed by someone talking to a companion, but I've been knocked flat by oblivious folks talking on cell phones.

Jersey Chick

08-15-2009, 12:50 AM

But I'm one of the GOOD drivers.

Really.

Jcomp

08-15-2009, 01:27 AM

When you talk on your cell phone, part of your brain 'imagines' the person there. Similarly, the act of holding the phone up to your ear while driving also takes away some of your cognitive abilty.

There is research being done on this, but the short answer is that when you are talking on the cell phone while doing a task, 'more' of your brain is allocated to the cell phone than would be allocated if the person was just in the room with you.

The simple act of holding the phone to your ear makes a HUGE difference in cognitive/observational ability.

Its one of those wierd brain things. For instance, move your right foot in a clockwise circle and at the same time try to move your right hand in a counter-clockwise circle. 98% of most people can't do this.

Basically, talking to someone next to you vs. holding a phone up to your ear and talking to that same person IS NOT the same as far as your brain is concerned. :Shrug:

As for eating and driving. That is completely different. The act of eating goes straight to the Reptile brain (lower brain function) and is much easier to compartimentalize/ignore allowing you to 'truly' multitask. Which is one reason why you tend to overeat while watching t.v., you aren't even paying attention to what you eat and before you know it, 'you've eaten it all'.

Mel...

I knew I could count on you to come through and drop the science. I still sort of think it has more to do with people being morons than direct links to cell usage, but it's hard to argue with studies done by people that are smarter than me who base there determinations on scientific process.

blacbird

08-15-2009, 01:49 AM

Interestingly, the car is the only place where bluetooth should be acceptable. Otherwise you just look like a dweeb...

Every study I've seen indicates that there is no appreciable difference in distraction for a driver between hand-held and ear-implanted cellphones.

caw

veinglory

08-15-2009, 01:59 AM

Other countries have just made using cellphones while driving it illegal and the world didn't come to an end. I am not currently a driver but most of the people who try to run me over as a law abiding pedestrian seem to be talking on cells. One of them yestderday turned the corner, without signalling, while on the phone--then he swore at me for using the zebra crossing while the walk signal was showing. Sigh.

Jcomp

08-15-2009, 02:09 AM

Every study I've seen indicates that there is no appreciable difference in distraction for a driver between hand-held and ear-implanted cellphones.

caw

I'm speaking strictly in terms of fashion. You should know by now to only take every other thing I say even with a 10th of seriousness...

Lyv

08-15-2009, 02:22 AM

I love that you can talk to yourself in public now and as long as your ear is covered, no one looks askance.

dgiharris

08-15-2009, 08:32 AM

I knew I could count on you to come through and drop the science. I still sort of think it has more to do with people being morons than direct links to cell usage....

Funny you should say that. One studied that was recently completed did in fact confirm that people driving while talking on their cell phones are morons. The research was done at FU :D

Mel...

Jcomp

08-15-2009, 07:12 PM

Funny you should say that. One studied that was recently completed did in fact confirm that people driving while talking on their cell phones are morons. The research was done at FU :D

Mel...

Ha. I yield, good knight. Victory is yours....

robeiae

08-15-2009, 10:44 PM

I still don't understand how talking on the celly is any more of a distraction than having friends or bad ass kids in the car or trying to eat your breakfast in the car on the way to work.
It's more of a distraction for a number of reasons, I think. You're talking to someone that's not there, physically. You can lose yourself in the conversation. You can't look at the person and see where they are--like in the car next to you--so you look into the distance. I've seen people do this on phones all the time. I've seen people in grocery stores almost knock over a display because they're yapping on a phone.

Also, when you're talking to someone else that is in your car, that person (unless it's a small child/baby, which can be even worse than a cell-phone call) KNOWS where they and you are, knows that you're driving and can actually adjust the conversation--by maybe not talking for a second or two--when they see you have to concentrate on driving, 'cause of traffic or the like.

FWIW.

blacbird

08-15-2009, 10:57 PM

I've seen people in grocery stores almost knock over a display because they're yapping on a phone.

More than once I've literally been run into by people pushing grocery carts while talking on cell phones. For some people, it's like everything past about two feet in any direction simply ceases to exist or be visible once that cell phone conversation starts.

caw

robeiae

08-15-2009, 11:01 PM

Yeah, I had one lady step right in front of my moving cart--without looking--to grab an item. And she was yapping on a headset thingy, naming the brands of olive oil or something to find out which one to buy.

Write a friggin' list before you come to the store, dippy!

Bartholomew

08-16-2009, 10:34 AM

I still don't understand how talking on the celly is any more of a distraction than having friends or bad ass kids in the car or trying to eat your breakfast in the car on the way to work. Somehow cell's have a harder stigma. Texting is some other stuff, because you're constantly looking at the screen. But unless you're trying to navigate somebody's terrible push-button automated menu through the phone you should be fine just talking.

Interestingly, the car is the only place where bluetooth should be acceptable. Otherwise you just look like a dweeb...

Edit: Or if you're driving stick without bluetooth. That's a no-no too...

People get into wrecks just from looking aside for a minute to read a passing sign. I'm firmly in the, "Just Drive" column. The goddamn slurpy can wait until you're not moving.

Bird of Prey

08-16-2009, 04:17 PM

I would imagine that nearly everybody at this point has had a near miss with somebody texting or on the phone. I can't imagine how the air traffic controller must feel at this point because it wasn't a near miss. The guilt must be almost unbearable.

I used to have "friends" that would call me when they were driving because I suspect they were bored. A particular gal comes to mind. She called me, chatting about something I'm sure I wasn't interested in, and SMACK. "OMG, I hit that car!! I've gotta go!! Wait, what do I do?? Oh no. . . ."

Yep.