Controversial Doll Lets Little Girls Pretend to Breast-Feed [Archive]

~*Kate*~

08-07-2009, 05:00 AM

Oh what a bunch of BS:

Dr. Manny Alvarez, managing health editor of FOXNews.com, said although he supports the idea of breast-feeding, he sees how his own daughter plays with dolls and wonders if Bebe Gloton might speed up maternal urges in the little girls who play it.

Right. But pretending to bottle feed doesn't.

I can see why it's alarming to parents-- b/c our country can't get past its fetish for breasts as ornaments instead of appreciating them for their intended function-- but no one freaks out that little kids pretend to change a naked *gasp* baby's diaper or bathe a *gasp* naked doll. This isn't really any different to me.

*steps off soapbox*

beezle

08-07-2009, 05:01 AM

I can see why it's alarming to parents-- b/c our country can't get past its fetish for breasts as ornaments instead of appreciating them for their intended function

You know what they say about train sets.

~*Kate*~

08-07-2009, 05:03 AM

You know what they say about train sets.

Umm.... I'm afraid to ask. Shoot.

beezle

08-07-2009, 05:04 AM

Umm.... I'm afraid to ask. Shoot.
Designed for kids but overwhelmingly played with by grown men.

WendyNYC

08-07-2009, 05:08 AM

I guess I'd rather have my kid playing with that than a thong-wearing tartlet Bratz doll. Still, I probably wouldn't run out and buy it.

Lots of older siblings pretend to breastfeed their baby dolls when they see their mommies feeding their younger sister or brother. That's not so odd.

~*Kate*~

08-07-2009, 05:08 AM

Right. I forgot my ability to breastfeed is secondary to my purpose of titillating men. Pun fully intended.

Zoombie

08-07-2009, 05:10 AM

Breastfeeding and titillation are equally important in my mind.

But then again, I'm unabashedly sexual (read, horny 19 year old) so you can ignore me.

benbradley

08-07-2009, 05:12 AM

I like to pretend I live in a world before dolls learned how to defecate, let alone breastfeed from 8 year olds.
I recall (TV ads for) dolls that would "drink" water and wet their diapers from back in the '60's or '70's.
...
Right. But pretending to bottle feed doesn't.
Perhaps if children (boys as well as girls) were asked to help with REAL BABIES (no, not with breastfeeding of course, but with changing diapers, bathing and such) instead of the romanticized playing with doll babies, there might be fewer teen pregnancies.

I wonder what the unwed pregnancy rate for girls who grew up with siblings substantially (say, 7 years or more) younger than them vs. that for other girls.
You know what they say about train sets.
Now I'm recalling a George Carlin bit about cigarette ads from way back when. You'd think babies came from smoking (and for teen girls, it's not that far from the truth...).

RLB

08-07-2009, 05:16 AM

I probably wouldn't get one for my hypothetical daughter, just because it might be strange to encourage her to attach a doll to her prepubescent nipples, but I think this comparison:

“It’s like introducing sex education in first grade instead of seventh or eighth grade. Or, it could inadvertently lead little girls to become traumatized.”

is ridiculous. Most kids with younger siblings grow up watching their moms breastfeed or knowing about breastfeeding without being "traumatized." It's a whole different category than kids watching their parents have sex.

Zoombie

08-07-2009, 05:17 AM

I've walked in on my parents having sex once, and I became this sexually unexpressed, bisexual polyandrous monster that you see before you today!

Truly, a horror.

Romantic Heretic

08-07-2009, 05:19 AM

Oy vay iz mir! :rolleyes:

The conclusions the people in that article jumped to. I had to laugh.

Myself If I had a daughter I wouldn't rush out and buy it for her. If she asked for one I'd make it a birthday or Christmas present.

RLB

08-07-2009, 05:19 AM

I've walked in on my parents having sex once, and I became this sexually unexpressed, bisexual polyandrous monster that you see before you today!

Truly, a horror.

I rest my case. ;)

~*Kate*~

08-07-2009, 05:19 AM

I've walked in on my parents having sex once, and I became this sexually unexpressed, bisexual polyandrous monster that you see before you today!

Truly, a horror.
This automatically puts "Tell Me Something Good" in my head, like in the episode of "That 70s Show" where the same thing happens.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 05:21 AM

Zoombie

08-07-2009, 05:22 AM

I'm sorry, I can't think of That 70s Show without thinking of this scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W6cT3Tvu9g&feature=related)

Anywho, as I've said, we should simply not buy the doll. Easy peasey shazamieze.

veinglory

08-07-2009, 05:38 AM

Peeing dolls go back at least as far as the Victorian era.

Smish

08-07-2009, 05:52 AM

Hmmm. I'm not entirely sure what to think about this one, either. I think I have a bit of a problem with the "nursing halter top" that comes with the doll, though. I'm not sure encouraging girls to expose their breasts is a good idea.

Jersey Chick

08-07-2009, 05:55 AM

The funny thing about this? If I bought it for my daughter (who, at almost 9 wouldn't be at ALL interested in it, thank God)...

...it would be my son who would take it and probably try to breastfeed it.

My husband already cringes a little when my son takes his purse out (it's an old one of mine that he claimed after seeing his sister with hers) of the house. If he tried to breastfeed a doll, it just might kill Jersey Guy.

Maybe I'll buy 2... :D

I think it's a stupid idea - but I think peeing/crying/talking/crawling dolls are creepy anyway...

M.R.J. Le Blanc

08-07-2009, 06:08 AM

I had one of those crawling/peeing dolls. I think my infatuation lasted about four to six months before I got tired of playing with it. I can't see this being a lasting thing for any little girl, much less encourage early pregnancy. If you don't like it, don't buy it for your child. Trust me, they will get over it!

WendyNYC

08-07-2009, 06:09 AM

I think the worst thing about it is the name. Baby Glutton? Aww, sweet little Bebe Gloton! Latch on, now, you gluttonous little thing! Yes, let's name her after one of the seven deadly sins. That works well.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 06:46 AM

Well, it can also mean greedy, but a kid rooting around for the boob... looks and sounds like a greedy little pig. lol

dclary

08-07-2009, 06:54 AM

I have about a dozen rejoinders to this thread, but every one of them would get my name put on some sort of Megan's Law list, so I'll just mosey along.

Zoombie

08-07-2009, 06:55 AM

Hey, half of those deadly sins are really really fun!

Jersey Chick

08-07-2009, 07:00 AM

If they weren't fun, they wouldn't be sins... ;)

C.bronco

08-07-2009, 07:02 AM

How many young kids have siblings who are being breast-fed? It's weird, in a way, to see that one of the miracles of nature is such a horrible taboo.

As a seven year old, my biggest happy birthday present was a doll that you fed, and then peed and pooped. I can't remember what it was called, but my Dad called it "Little Baby Poops A Lot." LOL! I loved that doll for At Least six months before I went on to other toys.

I sincerely wonder how much of the Puritan legacy is instilled within us. How eager are we to hide what is completely natural and beneficial?

Smish

08-07-2009, 07:06 AM

I sincerely wonder how much of the Puritan legacy is instilled within us. How eager are we to hide what is completely natural and beneficial?

Well, it's not really natural for seven-year-olds to breast feed...

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 07:10 AM

It's completely natural for a young girl (or boy as Jersey Girl pointed out) to want to care for a baby. And breastfeeding is part of caring for a baby. Just as changing poopy doll diapers is or dealing with dolls that cry is. (my niece was hilariously frustrated when her crying doll wouldn't settle down and go to sleep).

I recall my 4 year old nephew asking if he could feed my kid. He showed me his boobs to prove he could too. Unnatural?

Smish

08-07-2009, 07:11 AM

TerzaRima

08-07-2009, 07:12 AM

Eh, I can't get fussed about it. When I was a kid I had a doll that wet, and, IIRC, soiled its own diaper. They sold this probably carcinogenic strawberry smelling gelatinous crap which the child was supposed to spoon into the doll's mouth and thence it went down some Mattel created alimentary canal and actually oozed out of a little plastic anus. I'm not making this up.

In contrast to that toy, however (pink turds: awesome fun) this one strikes me as something that's more rewarding for a certain kind of parent to buy the child than for the child to play with. Kind of the toy equivalent of a Greenpeace bumpersticker.

brokenfingers

08-07-2009, 07:56 AM

I sincerely wonder how much of the Puritan legacy is instilled within us. How eager are we to hide what is completely natural and beneficial?Spend some time in Europe and you'll see how much of it has become an ingrained part of American culture (along with other things like Christian fundamentalism)

In Europe almost every beach is topless or it's no big deal if a female is topless. Hell, in England, they have a page in one of the largest newspapers dedicated to a topless woman every day, and they show breasts on broadcast TV.

And those people seem okay for the most part.

C.bronco

08-07-2009, 08:07 AM

In this country, I think, we obsess about things that sholdn't matter so much, and I am a dyed-in-the-wool Yankee.

Priorities.

My Dad always reminded me to "keep your priorities in order."

Some things shouldn't bring shame to anyone.

Zoombie

08-07-2009, 08:10 AM

I agree with Europe.

SPMiller

08-07-2009, 08:11 AM

Traumatized by breastfeeding. LOLOL That's fucking hilarious.

Little girls playing with dolls shows a maternal urge. Most kids have an urge to care for things smaller than them. They don't have to pretend to breastfeed to have it.

You know why this is controversial? Because it's about boobs. Nipples are evil. Little girls will show their naked nipples! *eyeroll* Grow up. It's just boobs. And that's what they're meant for.Exactly. Better that we emphasize the actual purpose of the breast (a specialized sweat gland ;) ) for producing milk rather than just the sexualized meme pervasive in modern US (and likely parts of Canadian) culture. Mind you, I do like me some titties, but come on. They're food generators.

Potentially positive side effect: reduced reliance on bad baby formula if and when these girls grow up and become mothers. Encouraging breast feeding can only be a good thing, IMO.

Zoombie

08-07-2009, 08:13 AM

I say, can't we have both?

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 08:20 AM

I agree with Europe.
It's actually legal in parts of Canada as well.

aadams73

08-07-2009, 08:21 AM

In Europe almost every beach is topless or it's no big deal if a female is topless. Hell, in England, they have a page in one of the largest newspapers dedicated to a topless woman every day, and they show breasts on broadcast TV.

Exactly.

When I was living in Europe a porn star was running for government in Italy. She campaigned topless. No one batted an eyelid.

Living in Australia, I never saw anyone give a rat's ass if a woman sunbathed topless.

Boobies are not evil, and I'm sick to death of breasts being treated as somehow bad by whackjob puritanical types. The naked body is great. Well, sometimes it's not so great, but mostly it's great.

brokenfingers

08-07-2009, 08:23 AM

There are positives and negatives to the issue though, as there usually are. One negative: I wouldn't want my daughter exposing her breasts in public with the current climate of kiddie porners and kidnappers.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 08:25 AM

Boobies are not evil, and I'm sick to death of breasts being treated as somehow bad by whackjob puritanical types. The naked body is great. Well, sometimes it's not so great, but mostly it's great.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8403/topless.gif

Zoombie

08-07-2009, 08:26 AM

Wait till she's not a kid?

aadams73

08-07-2009, 08:29 AM

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8403/topless.gif

Perfect!

brokenfingers

08-07-2009, 08:31 AM

It's actually legal in parts of Canada as well.It's legal in New York City as well.

Zoombie

08-07-2009, 08:36 AM

If I were a woman, I'd walk around without a shirt. Unfortunately, there are three flaws in that plan...

aadams73

08-07-2009, 08:38 AM

Most kids with younger siblings grow up watching their moms breastfeed or knowing about breastfeeding without being "traumatized."

I agree. I was 11 when my mother was breastfeeding my sister. I'm pretty sure I'm not traumatized.

Traumatized by breastfeeding. LOLOL That's fucking hilarious.

I know, right? I think it's adults who are scandalized by a glimpse of breast. Women are treated like...like criminals almost for feeding babies the way nature intended. All this bottle feeding, no wonder our offspring are getting weaker and sicker and more allergy-laden.

brokenfingers

08-07-2009, 08:39 AM

You had me at "breasts".

Zoombie

08-07-2009, 08:39 AM

I don't think that bottle feeding has anything to do with allergies or sickness...

SPMiller

08-07-2009, 08:39 AM

If I were a woman, I'd walk around without a shirt. Unfortunately, there are three flaws in that plan...Not female, it's illegal in most places, and ...?

Risk of skin cancer increases?

brokenfingers

08-07-2009, 08:41 AM

I don't think that bottle feeding has anything to do with allergies or sickness...Breastfeeding is much healthier for a baby than plying it with man-made artificial bullcrap. It helps build the baby's immune system along with many other beneficial side-effects. I'm sure if I were a woman, I'd know more.

aadams73

08-07-2009, 08:42 AM

I don't think that bottle feeding has anything to do with allergies or sickness...

You DO realize that breast milk is loaded with antibodies and things, right?? An infant's immune system is very reliant on its mother's milk for that reason.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 08:44 AM

I don't think that bottle feeding has anything to do with allergies or sickness...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9892025
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/433149
http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-health/articles/11/1/Immunology-of-Breastmilk
http://www.nrdc.org/breastmilk/benefits.asp

dude, really, google is your friend

SPMiller

08-07-2009, 08:45 AM

Back in the Victorian days, they mixed flour with water and fed it to babies, which wasn't particularly healthful and upset their stomachs as a bonus. Ever wondered why infant mortality was so high? That was part of the reason. We should go back to those days.

Wait. We're still sort of there, what with all the poorly-made baby foods.

Too many mothers are still too squeamish about giving their baby a nipple in public. Hopefully, this will go a small part of the way toward ridding them of that fear.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 08:47 AM

Breast milk is also free.

SPMiller

08-07-2009, 08:49 AM

No way. I thought you had to pay yourself for it.

Perks

08-07-2009, 08:49 AM

I like to pretend I live in a world before dolls learned how to defecate, let alone breastfeed from 8 year olds.'Cause shitting is worse than nursing?

aadams73

08-07-2009, 08:50 AM

Breast milk is also free.

And it's always the perfect temperature for baby.

Cranky

08-07-2009, 08:55 AM

I really do hope that people lose their weirdness about breastfeeding, I really do. Don't think the doll will help much with that, though. The doll's just a doll.

OTOH, I hope people aren't going to start getting snarky with people who choose (for whatever reason, usually for reasons they don't disclose to strangers) to bottle feed. Just sayin'.

beezle

08-07-2009, 09:08 AM

'Cause shitting is worse than nursing?

You never saw those ads come Christmas time? Maybe you had to be a kid in the late 80s. Basically they were dolls that did the full yellow goop cycle, from spoon to potty.

I just wanted to see the freakin' Ninja Turtle blimp ads. Oh yeah.

SPMiller

08-07-2009, 09:12 AM

Oh, sure, not everyone has the time or the physical ability to support their babies solely on mother's milk. But many do.

Cranky

08-07-2009, 09:23 AM

Oh, sure, not everyone has the time or the physical ability to support their babies solely on mother's milk. But many do.

True. But those are not the only reasons someone may choose to not breastfeed. It's a very personal decision, and it's usually something a lot of mothers struggle over. I dislike it when people are made to feel uncomfortable over their decisions on the issue. It's not okay to make rude remarks to a nursing mother (I've been on the receiving end of that...not fun) or to one who chooses to bottle feed (and I've been on the receiving end of that, too). It's just not anyone else's business.

But I think I'm getting off the point here. I just wanted to throw up a caution flag is all.

Zoombie

08-07-2009, 09:29 AM

Well, there you go!

Now I know.

And knowing is half the battle!

Zoombie

08-07-2009, 09:30 AM

Not female, it's illegal in most places, and ...?

I'm actually a sentient computer virus.

ColoradoMom

08-07-2009, 09:37 AM

Well, it's not really natural for seven-year-olds to breast feed...

LOL...finally the f-ing obvious shows up. Holy crap!

It is one thing to WATCH your MOM breastfeed and quite another to try it yourself. Little girls breastfeeding is about as natural as little girls having babies.

What a stupid conversation.

Cranky

08-07-2009, 09:41 AM

Well, to state something equally obvious, but there have been recorded cases of little girls having babies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers).

I also wouldn't say it's a stupid conversation. I'd also say that if the conversation really is stupid, it might be best to not take part, then.

brokenfingers

08-07-2009, 09:44 AM

LOL...finally the f-ing obvious shows up. Holy crap!

It is one thing to WATCH your MOM breastfeed and quite another to try it yourself. Little girls breastfeeding is about as natural as little girls having babies.

What a stupid conversation.How natural is little girls taking care of babies then? Isn't that what they do with dolls? How many 7 yr old girls actually have to feed, change and raise a baby?

~*Kate*~

08-07-2009, 09:55 AM

And here I thought children learned by doing. Maria Montessori be damned.

brokenfingers

08-07-2009, 10:53 AM

I want to clarify one thing before this thread explodes.

This issue has its positives and negatives and each person has to judge accordingly based upon their own family, environment and circumstances.

Personally, I don’t think this doll is a very good idea. At least in America, cuz a large part of American society isn’t structured to deal with the issues it raises. I, for one, would not be wanting my daughter lowering her top in public to breastfeed a doll, not because I feel it’s unnatural, but because of what other people would think and how that would affect her.

Also, nowadays people have to worry about pedos taking pictures of their kids at public swimming pools and putting them on the internet, so I can’t even imagine if this became widespread.

But, I do take issue with people who feel that a woman’s breasts, or the human body in general, are something that should be hidden like they should be ashamed of them.

Now, I’m a man – and I do realize the effect a woman’s breasts can have on a man. But American society has placed the onus on women. If a guy acts inappropriately due to the influence of a woman’s breasts, the inclination is to blame the woman for exposing them. Yet they don’t have this problem in other parts of the world.

I find the sociological differences between cultures - even ones so similar as England, Australia and America – fascinating. And this is one area. Like many have said. Women’s breasts are seen daily in these other countries and it’s no big deal.

But in America, it’s different. That’s where my problem lies. Women, old and young, expose their breasts daily in other Western civilized nations without fanfare.

Breastfeeding is a natural part of life and something all mammals share in common. I just think it’s a shame that our society has made it to where it’s just about a sin to act like such, and has basically made a woman’s breast an asset, a commodity, to be hidden, hoarded, bought, sold and bartered – instead of the natural thing it is.

dclary

08-07-2009, 12:40 PM

If I were a woman, I'd walk around without a shirt. Unfortunately, there are three flaws in that plan...

You don't own a shirt?

dclary

08-07-2009, 12:41 PM

How natural is little girls taking care of babies then? Isn't that what they do with dolls? How many 7 yr old girls actually have to feed, change and raise a baby?

That depends almost entirely on your socio-economic level in America.

dclary

08-07-2009, 12:43 PM

And it's always the perfect temperature for baby.

And it makes Mama look OH so ^_^.... Rawr!

brokenfingers

08-07-2009, 12:43 PM

That depends almost entirely on your socio-economic level in America.Really? Then enlighten me on the differences and back it up.

Stew21

08-07-2009, 12:53 PM

If a girl sees her mother breastfeeding a younger sibling, it is natural in their family for that being the way infants are fed. To play with a doll is to pretend to be a mommy. Mommy breastfeed, child plays as though breastfeeding. I hardly think a special doll is required for the occasion. The kid will either put the dolly to her chest or won't.
So the purpose of the doll is lost on me to a degree, but imitation is perfectly natural and if a little girl sees breastfeeding as the way to care for a baby, that is how she will play with a doll. Absolutely normal, imo.

eta: brokenfingers, I read your post after I had written my own and just wanted to address one thing. Most women carry a small blanket to cover themselves and the baby's head, while breastfeeding in public. Certainly a parent could be sure the girl was modest. Again though, I don't think it takes a special doll for a child to pretend to breastfeed.

dclary

08-07-2009, 01:06 PM

I can say anecdotally that my aunt Jan at about age 7 was the secondary caregiver for the rest of her siblings, being the oldest child and was very much involved in feeding, changing and helping raise a family.

But that's neither here nor there:

Babies born to single teen mothers are more likely than others to be poor and subject to the risks associated with low economic status -- deficient health care, poor nutrition (http://www.allbusiness.com/medicine-health/health-health-care-by-target/11437438-1.html#), poor educational prospects, and increased health problems (Partnership for Women's Health at Columbia, Spring, 1999)

There are about 6,600 births to children under 14 in the United States a year. http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2006/09/12/USTPstats.pdf

Adolescent women in lower socioeconomic classes are more likely to become teenage mothers than their better-off counterparts (Singh, Darroch, & Frost, 2001). Economically disadvantaged adolescents are more likely to be African-American or Hispanic (South & Baumer, 2001). African-American and Hispanic youths are more likely to have sex earlier and with multiple partners, putting them at an increased risk of becoming pregnant (Santelli, Lindberg, Abma, McNeely, & Resnick, 2000).

Don

08-07-2009, 01:55 PM

this one strikes me as something that's more rewarding for a certain kind of parent to buy the child than for the child to play with. Kind of the toy equivalent of a Greenpeace bumpersticker.
Nailed it in one. :)
I'm actually a sentient computer virus.
This explains SOOOOOO much! :D

Perks

08-07-2009, 05:40 PM

On a babydoll, any sort of animatronic simulation of life functions freaks me out. Someone gave my daughter a doll that said, "Tell me all your secrets!" in a creepy sing-song voice. I wouldn't let her keep it, but had a great time hiding it my friends' houses. It became a game. We'd sneak it into each other's homes, until Lisa 'accidentally' ran over it with her car. Methinks she may have watched 'Child's Play' in the interim and it got the better of her.

Anyway, we really do need to get over our societal squick where breastfeeding is concerned. It needs to stop being included in the category of waste functions. It's not a thing like urination or defecation. Breastmilk is not in anyway analogous to shit, piss, or snot.

Breasfeeding women really shouldn't need to cower, cover up, or take their infants into the restroom to feed them. It seems easy enough to understand that breasts have different connotations in different situations. If a flash of tit really puts anyone into a spiral of confusion-arousal-outrage, that's their problem, not the nursing mother's.

Perks

08-07-2009, 05:57 PM

Amendment:

I actually did (do) like babydolls that crawl. Anything else - talking, crying, laughing (shudder), eating, drinking, sucking, and most especially having anything come out of them, is ripe with horror-movie potential.

Cranky

08-07-2009, 05:57 PM

It would be especially nice if nursing mothers were not relegated to restrooms to breastfeed when in public. Ugh. Though I will admit, the mall in our city (one of them, anyway) has a very nice family restroom that has a living room type of area with comfortable couches and a television, plus another place with curtained stalls and rocking chairs, if someone would prefer to nurse there. Also, only one bathroom, in a separate room, with kid-friendly fixtures. It also has a nice changing area, with wipes warmers and everything. It was dead useful when my youngest was still an infant.

I'd love to see more places like that.

And I'd crush a doll like that in about two seconds flat, too, Perksie. It sounds evil.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 06:04 PM

Breasfeeding women really shouldn't need to cower, cover up, or take their infants into the restroom to feed them. It seems easy enough to understand that breasts have different connotations in different situations. If a flash of tit really puts anyone into a spiral of confusion-arousal-outrage, that's their problem, not the nursing mother's.
I never covered up. I fed my kid when he was hungry, where he was hungry. And when some idiot who suggested I do it in the bathroom, I laughed and told him to go eat his own dinner there (we were in a restaurant, I was eating dinner and nursing).

Besides, once a kid is latched on and eating, you can't see anything anyway. And since we know it's all about the evil evil nipple... um, it's in the kids mouth and you're not gonna see any more cleavage than you would on a fashion magazine cover model.

StephanieFox

08-07-2009, 06:12 PM

Perks

08-07-2009, 06:15 PM

I never covered up. I fed my kid when he was hungry, where he was hungry. And when some idiot who suggested I do it in the bathroom, I laughed and told him to go eat his own dinner there (we were in a restaurant, I was eating dinner and nursing).

Besides, once a kid is latched on and eating, you can't see anything anyway. And since we know it's all about the evil evil nipple... um, it's in the kids mouth and you're not gonna see any more cleavage than you would on a fashion magazine cover model.Absolutely. I didn't cover up either. I was scowled into trying, but quickly realized that she hated smothering under the blanket. Who wouldn't?

Evil nipple. Tee hee!

CaroGirl

08-07-2009, 06:28 PM

Part of the point of breast feeding is that it's easy. No bottles to take along and warm because breast milk is always available and always the right temperature. Having to find an out-of-the-way nook to hide in defeats the purpose of the ease of breast feeding.

I know several little girls with younger siblings who put their ordinary dolls to their chest and pretended to breast feed, just like mommy. Is there something wrong with that? I don't, however, think we need a doll that's manufactured expressly (nice pun!) for that purpose. Especially not one called Baby Glutton. I had a doll that "ate". It had a motor in it and when it was on, the motor made a whirring sound and the doll's face morphed into a sort of grimace that looks more like it was about to have a seizure than eat. Oddly creepy, indeed.

Perks

08-07-2009, 06:30 PM

Especially not one called Baby Glutton. What the hell is wrong with people? I swear to god, if either of my children ever go into marketing, I will feel like an utter failure.

C.bronco

08-07-2009, 06:36 PM

As long as they don't make baby dolls that look like clowns, things will be okay. Now THAT would traumatize me! :D

tjwriter

08-07-2009, 06:40 PM

WTF to the comparisons in that article? ED compares to breastfeeding how?

I breastfed at the beginning for both of my children and while I was breastfeeding Cadence, Piper would get one of her dolls and pretend to feed just like Mommy. She was trying practicing her nurturing skills.

I don't necessarily like the doll, but I don't like the dolls that do anything. I tell Piper she has to pretend.

And telling women to cover up to breastfeed is degrading IMHO. You can't see anything once the baby's on there anyway. All the fuss is just stupid. If the breast is strictly sexual for you, that's your problem not mine.

benbradley

08-07-2009, 07:06 PM

What the hell is wrong with people? I swear to god, if either of my children ever go into marketing, I will feel like an utter udder failure.
Sorry, couldn't resist...

Perks

08-07-2009, 07:08 PM

Sorry, couldn't resist...
You know, Ben, sometimes I love you. I just really do.

This is one of those times.

~*Kate*~

08-07-2009, 07:34 PM

A girl on another board I frequent pointed out that this week is, appropriately enough, National Breastfeeding Week. So with that in mind...

Breastfeeding is Offensive (http://www.cafemom.com/journals/read/1501574/Breastfeeding_is_Offensive)

And for those who have been through it, a little something to laugh at (http://babyblues.com/bfweek1.html).

Gretad08

08-07-2009, 07:56 PM

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 07:59 PM

Perks

08-07-2009, 08:01 PM

That doesn't make him evil, and I certainly don't want to make him uncomfortable so I cover up...simple as that. Everybody wins.

Except the overwarm mother and the sweltering, squirming, uncomfortable baby.

Unease at the sight breastfeeding is an archaic tickle right up there with thinking women in slacks is edgy.

Gretad08

08-07-2009, 08:06 PM

Except the overwarm mother and the sweltering, squirming, uncomfortable baby.

Unease at the sight breastfeeding is an archaic tickle right up there with thinking women in slacks is edgy.

Well, I certainly never covered her with a heating blanket...she didn't seem to mind and neither did I.

And, yeah, it's probably archaic, but you can't help what makes you uneasy or uncomfortable. I don't want to be the person providing that discomfort for anyone.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 08:09 PM

I don't think breastfeeding is necessarily ofensive to people, but it can make some uncomfortable.

In fact, I wasn't comfortable doing it in public, so, I didn't. If I was at someone's house I would sit in a bedroom with the door closed or cover up with a very light blanket.

Yes, I have a right to breastfeed in public, but I choose not to b/c I don't care to shove it in anyone's face if it makes them uncomfortable.

If you're in the same room with a male WWII vet, he probably won't be comfortable with seeing a naked breast nursing a baby. That doesn't make him evil, and I certainly don't want to make him uncomfortable so I cover up...simple as that. Everybody wins.

Just b/c you have the right doesn't mean it can't be handled with a little common courtesy or discretion.
One of the best ways to overcome discomfort with otherwise reasonable situations is to be in the situation. While this doesn't work for all, seeing things like nursing mothers and facing the fact that it's normal, acceptable and going to be done whether you like it or not, just might help some people overcome their irrational discomfort.

Perks

08-07-2009, 08:17 PM

Well, I certainly never covered her with a heating blanket...she didn't seem to mind and neither did I.

And, yeah, it's probably archaic, but you can't help what makes you uneasy or uncomfortable. I don't want to be the person providing that discomfort for anyone.
Yes, everyone's experience is different, of course. My daughter hated being covered with a blanket while she was trying to eat.

And as much as I don't go out of my way to offend people, I'm not bothered at someone else's outdated discomfort. They'll get over it and I'll get over their stinging appraisal of my breasts and couth.

Gretad08

08-07-2009, 08:20 PM

One of the best ways to overcome discomfort with otherwise reasonable situations is to be in the situation. While this doesn't work for all, seeing things like nursing mothers and facing the fact that it's normal, acceptable and going to be done whether you like it or not, just might help some people overcome their irrational discomfort.

Very true Jen. Good point.

It might also be reasonable to make just a few concessions to ease those that aren't comfortable with it into making it more acceptable. Discretion is key to everyone's comfort IMO.

~*Kate*~

08-07-2009, 08:25 PM

I NIP (nursed in public) while my boys were small, but once they got bigger I went to a back room b/c they were so easily distracted-- constantly looking up, pulling off, trying to go play, deciding to eat again, etc, etc. Sometimes it was out of consideration to my grandparents, who were uncomfortable with the idea of BF at first but gradually adjusted to it, and sometimes it was b/c I knew the baby wasn't going to eat otherwise. So there's really not a one size fits all answer even for individual moms.

Perks

08-07-2009, 08:31 PM

Well that's a point. Sometimes those nicely appointed lounges are terrific if the baby is wound up or easily distracted.

I don't believe in flinging off your top and yelling, "Hey! I'm gonna nurse this baby no matter if it makes you red in the face." I also don't believe that change happens without, you know, changing. Casual nursing in public should be encouraged, I think. It's really a very silly hangup that we're toting and we'll be better off without it.

Don

08-07-2009, 09:09 PM

If all women would just pick a date and go topless for a few days, this problem would be behind us forever.

Just sayin'... :e2brows:

Gretad08

08-07-2009, 09:13 PM

If all women would just pick a date and go topless for a few days, this problem would be behind us forever.

Just sayin'... :e2brows:

:roll:

That WOULD solve a lot of problems!

Perks

08-07-2009, 09:15 PM

If all women would just pick a date and go topless for a few days, this problem would be behind us forever.

Just sayin'... :e2brows:I think you might very well be right, but not perhaps for the eyebrow squiggling reason. I think if everyone went naked a bit, we'd quickly come to the conclusion that we'd all be far more attractive if we had pelts. At least until they can air-brush reality.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 09:45 PM

If all women would just pick a date and go topless for a few days, this problem would be behind us forever.

Just sayin'... :e2brows:
While I see your point and agree, it's the eyebrow wagging that got us to this point in the first place.

tjwriter

08-07-2009, 09:53 PM

I think most women are relatively discrete about it, even if they don't use a blanket. I think some people look too hard to see it and I think some women believe think they are supporting breastfeeding by making a big scene. Neither is appropriate, IMHO.

That being said, when someone starts in on the sexual thing, I've come to the conclusion that the nursing mom should loudly speak up to the effect of, "You find me feeding my infant sexual? Are you a pedophile or something? Are you on one of those molestor lists? Please leave me and my child alone!"

It might be a bit inflammatory, but it's about time someone turned the tables on them. Maybe I'm just an evil boob.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 10:02 PM

SPMiller

08-07-2009, 10:08 PM

Because the nipples are what actually dispense the milk. Thus, they must clearly be the most evilest component in the evil system.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 10:09 PM

This all goes back to women being evil from the very beginning doesn't it?

Damn apples.

Williebee

08-07-2009, 10:09 PM

Because the nipples are what actually dispense the milk. Thus, they must clearly be the most evilest component in the evil system.

You are what... er where you eat?

:)

SPMiller

08-07-2009, 10:12 PM

This all goes back to women being evil from the very beginning doesn't it?

Damn apples.Sure is funny how misogyny tends to run through all these topics like a pedal tone.

Fran

08-07-2009, 10:15 PM

I'd like a doll that teaches little boys how to hit the toilet bowl when they wee. That's a much more useful life skill ;)

Williebee

08-07-2009, 10:17 PM

This all goes back to women being evil from the very beginning doesn't it?

Damn apples.

Damn Apple pusher.

:)

hmm, so it could be suggested that it goes back to an original act of someone not taking responsibility for their own actions?

Perks

08-07-2009, 10:17 PM

I'd like a doll that teaches little boys how to hit the toilet bowl when they wee. That's a much more useful life skill Ask and ye shall be horrified --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZW_k05mntE

ETA - I guess that wouldn't necessarily teach that, but you could adapt it for that purpose, if you were that sort of freak.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 10:18 PM

Sure is funny how misogyny tends to run through all these topics like a pedal tone.
Yeah, we're so icky. It's just gross how we can incubate people inside us, tolerate and then forget the excruiating pain of getting them out (we have to forget or no one would ever do it more than once), and then feed them until they get teeth of their own. Really. Should all be done behind closed doors and under cover of darkness. No one should ever have to see any of that.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 10:20 PM

Damn Apple pusher.

:)

hmm, so it could be suggested that it goes back to an original act of someone not taking responsibility for their own actions?
Well, you can't take responsibility if someone made you do it.

Fran

08-07-2009, 10:33 PM

Ask and ye shall be horrified --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZW_k05mntE

ETA - I guess that wouldn't necessarily teach that, but you could adapt it for that purpose, if you were that sort of freak.

YICK!

Actually I hate dolls. Maybe just teaching them to clean it up themselves would be easier ;)

Don

08-07-2009, 10:39 PM

I'd like a doll that teaches little boys how to hit the toilet bowl when they wee. That's a much more useful life skill ;)
Draw battleships on toilet paper and drop them in the bowl. Then they can practice their straffing skills. It works. :)

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 10:40 PM

Ask and ye shall be horrified --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZW_k05mntE

ETA - I guess that wouldn't necessarily teach that, but you could adapt it for that purpose, if you were that sort of freak.
OMG it has an antomically correct penis! And it's not circumsized!! Ban it immeditately!!

tjwriter

08-07-2009, 10:40 PM

It's funny how boys have to have toys to make it into the toilet.

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 10:41 PM

Cheerios work too. As long as the kid doesn't go in after them. (makes for a good lesson on leaving what's in the toilet, in the toilet)

Fran

08-07-2009, 10:43 PM

Draw battleships on toilet paper and drop them in the bowl. Then they can practice their straffing skills. It works. :)

I'm thinking more along the lines of 30-year-olds. Is it too late for them? ;)

(I'm bitter because I once threw all the men out a party at my flat because they kept peeing on the floor and not cleaning it up.)

tjwriter

08-07-2009, 10:43 PM

:roll::ROFL:

Don

08-07-2009, 10:48 PM

While I see your point and agree, it's the eyebrow wagging that got us to this point in the first place.
Oh, come on... everybody would have vaguely thought something was missing if I'd left those off... and it wouldn't have gotten the laughs it did. :)

jennontheisland

08-07-2009, 10:52 PM

Oh, come on... everybody would have vaguely thought something was missing if I'd left those off... and it wouldn't have gotten the laughs it did. :)
Who said I didn't laugh. ;)

IdiotsRUs

08-07-2009, 11:50 PM

Jersey Chick

08-07-2009, 11:59 PM

I think most dolls are kind of spooky... no matter what they do. Or don't do.

beezle

08-08-2009, 12:09 AM

There's a problem with this?

My daughter has pretended to breast feed her dolls all her life. Why is having a doll that helps her little play a problem?

*confused*

Kids are curious when you breast feed, as I can attest, but when you say 'It's how they eat' they just accept it. What the F is the problem?
I thought the issue was the creeping supremacy of artificial humans. You know, the revolution of the robots.

Apparently I was way off.

IdiotsRUs

08-08-2009, 12:28 AM

They had dolls in Roman times

So they are a problem now because...?

jennontheisland

08-08-2009, 12:31 AM

Robots that run around and latch onto boobs.

It's the end of the world as we know it.

Magazine covers are going to look very different from now on.

Jersey Chick

08-08-2009, 12:33 AM

I'm sure the Roman dolls were just as creepy... ;)

IdiotsRUs

08-08-2009, 12:37 AM

Robots that run around and latch onto boobs.

Which is different from real babies how?

Apart from the pooping and crying. Oh wait - dolls do that too! OMG they are just training grounds for real life! OMG, I never knew that was what playing was for!!!!!

:D

People have nipples

Women use them to feed babies.

Children know this

Saying you can't use them to breastfeed a doll while playing at being a Mummy helps what exactly? Because lying to kids is fun, or what?

beezle

08-08-2009, 12:51 AM

Which is different from real babies how?

Apart from the pooping and crying. Oh wait - dolls do that too! OMG they are just training grounds for real life! OMG, I never knew that was what playing was for!!!!!

:D

People have nipples

Women use them to feed babies.

Children know this

Saying you can't use them to breastfeed a doll while playing at being a Mummy helps what exactly? Because lying to kids is fun, or what?
You're not thinking this through. We're teaching robots how to feed.

From us.

How long before they see people themselves as a viable food source?

Jersey Chick

08-08-2009, 12:52 AM

**cues theme from The Twilight Zone**

IdiotsRUs

08-08-2009, 12:56 AM

You're not thinking this through. We're teaching robots how to feed.

From us.

How long before they see people themselves as a viable food source?

Um, there are actual viable robots right now who eat things?

Robots eat things? ( other than electricity and oil, which we don't actually carry around in great quantity)

Robots like milk? http://ganjataz.com/smileys/01-grayball/images/oh-gb.gif

tjwriter

08-08-2009, 12:57 AM

People have nipples

Women use them to feed babies.

Children know this

Saying you can't use them to breastfeed a doll while playing at being a Mummy helps what exactly? Because lying to kids is fun, or what?

Apparently it leads to pregnancy and all sorts of terrible things.

Although many health care <NOBR id=itxt_nobr_4_0 style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 100%">providers</NOBR> promote the benefits of breast-feeding, parents around the world have criticized Berjuan, saying the idea of breast-feeding is too grown-up for young children -- and may even promote early pregnancy.

Dr. Manny Alvarez, managing health editor of FOXNews.com, said although he supports the idea of breast-feeding, he sees how his own daughter plays with dolls and wonders if Bebe Gloton might speed up maternal urges in the little girls who play it.
“Pregnancy has to entail maturity and understanding,” Alvarez said. “It’s like introducing sex education in first grade instead of seventh or eighth grade. Or, it could inadvertently lead little girls to become traumatized. You never know the effects this could have until she’s older.”

“What’s next?” wrote Eric Ruhalter, a parenting columnist for New Jersey’s Star Ledger “Bebe Sot — the doll who has a problem with a different kind of bottle, and loses his family, job and feelings of self-worth? Bebe Limp — the male doll who experiences erectile dysfunction? Bebe Cell Mate — a weak, unimposing doll that experiences all the indignation and humiliation of life in prison?

The leaps of logic here astounding.

beezle

08-08-2009, 12:58 AM

**cues theme from The Twilight Zone**

They'll keep us in giant vertical battery farms, men and women alike pumped full of estrogen, kept docile via complex virtual reality programs, all in order to keep the rampaging robot armies fed on the white stuff.

Robot food is people!

</pre>

veinglory

08-08-2009, 12:59 AM

Women also have sex, but we don't make toys that simulate this. I am not saying breast feeding is like copulating, but making the point that just because something is natural doesn't mean we want to specifically encourage it with single-function toys. Strapping a pair of nipples, no matter how stylised, on a 7 year old is not something I would want to do. If a kid wants to play mother, of their own volition, they can use a teddy bear and their imagination.

beezle

08-08-2009, 12:59 AM

Um, there are actual viable robots right now who eat things?

Robots eat things? ( other than electricity and oil, which we don't actually carry around in great quantity)

Robots like milk? http://ganjataz.com/smileys/01-grayball/images/oh-gb.gif
You missed that thread? Short answer, yes, the US army is working on a battlefield robot that eats organics to power itself. Crops, furniture, the cat, whatever's handy.

jennontheisland

08-08-2009, 12:59 AM

The leaps of logic here astounding.

Really, I'm not even sure those leaps qualify as logic.

aadams73

08-08-2009, 01:04 AM

And it makes Mama look OH so ^_^.... Rawr!

That being said, when someone starts in on the sexual thing, I've come to the conclusion that the nursing mom should loudly speak up to the effect of, "You find me feeding my infant sexual? Are you a pedophile or something? Are you on one of those molestor lists? Please leave me and my child alone!"

I concur, tjwriter. It's people like that who've made a whole subset of women choose not to breastfeed when then otherwise might have.

Obviously there are other reasons, too, and I respect those. But I've also heard friends say the "creep" factor makes them uncomfortable or even afraid for their safety.

IdiotsRUs

08-08-2009, 01:05 AM

Women also have sex, but we don't make toys that simulate this.

Um, yes. Yes we do. Adult toys, but toys nonetheless. Kids use action figures to play at being adult. They will play what they know about. They won't ( or I hope not!) know about sex, apart from maybe very general details ( mummy and daddy love each other and then there is a baby ). They will know about breastfeeding.

I am not saying breast feeding is like copulating, but making the point that just because something is natural doesn't mean we want to specifically encourage it with single-fuction toys. Straping a pair of nipples, no matter how stylised, on a 7 year old is not something I would want to do.
Ok, the strapping on nipples might be going too far ( but lets face it no further than Barbie having sexy clothes) but girls do simulate breastfeeding while playing Mummy with dolls. This is not a problem. Why shoudl it be? And these dolls don't have strap on nipples. They have a halter that undoes as a breastfeeding bra does. So kiddy can copy mummy. Which is what kids do. My daughter regularly did / does it without - she'd LOVE one of these. Is it any different to having a doll that comes with a formula bottle? No.

No toy should be single function - cos kids will always find at least three things with them you never thought of.

Who knew action man wanted to be Barbie's housework slave after all?

tjwriter

08-08-2009, 01:17 AM

We don't have sex simulating toys for kids because sex is for consenting adults. Breastfeeding is a mother-to-child bonding, nurturing, and feeding experience. Of course we want our children to emulate a nurturing environment.

IdiotsRUs

08-08-2009, 01:21 AM

Exactly!

Breastfeeding is a normal part of a child's life ( them feeding, or their siblings or friends siblings) They have experience of it, so they will play to emulate it.

Sex is not a normal part of a child's experience ( or damn well shouldn't be) so they won't emulate that in their play.

Breastfeeding is not abnormal or anything. And for a child to play at it is just ...play. It's not sexualising anything because it isn't a sexual act.

tjwriter

08-08-2009, 01:26 AM

I totally regret not breastfeeding longer than I did. It's one of those things I would change if I could turn back time. But I made the decision that I did for a reason of my own and I have two happy, healthy girls and that's the most important bit.

Jersey Chick

08-08-2009, 01:35 AM

I was one of those unfortunates who couldn't breastfeed. I tried, but to no avail.

Delhomeboy

08-08-2009, 03:05 AM

While I see your point and agree, it's the eyebrow wagging that got us to this point in the first place.

I don't think we're at a "bad" point. Too conservative? Yeah. I think breastfeeding is perfectly natural and fine. But, you know, there's nothing wrong with breasts being an attractive feature of the female body, either.

TabithaTodd

08-08-2009, 03:43 AM

Whether there is a doll or not, it's common place for a child to mimic her\his mother. If mother breast feeds then they mimic that in their imaginative play with any toy or doll.

I think it's about time they had a doll like this to balance out the both sides of baby feeding. I'm an NFL parent (natural family living). We cloth dipe, breast fed, co-sleep, non-vax (do not confuse anti-vax with non-vax please, I'm not going to debate my choices). Breast feeding is natural and was an integral part of my children's lives. My last little guy was extended breast fed (15 months) and child led weened.

Bird of Prey

08-08-2009, 03:51 AM

I think the real question is why do we have dolls? And if children had their druthers, would they play out their preferred roles vis a vis other children, with all kinds of toys or through real life communication with adults more comfortably?

Personally, I think dolls have been and always will be tools of a society bent on hot ironing a gender role that either society or the parents find suitable. . . .

Magdalen

08-08-2009, 03:59 AM

I think the real question is why didn't Stretch Armstrong have a penis?

Jersey Chick

08-08-2009, 04:03 AM

I think I hurt myself...

**cleans coffee off monitor**

CatSlave

08-08-2009, 04:28 AM

jennontheisland

08-08-2009, 04:45 AM

Next, we should have a doll that menstruates.

It's a normal fact of life, girls have to experience it, and it isn't abnormal or sexual.

Hmmm?

Difference here is that menstruation is not something kids see happen. It's not a behavior to emulate, like nursing a baby or changing a diaper. Most dolls that have specific features are related to tasks and behaviors they see adults do, and can imitate in order to learn.

jennontheisland

08-08-2009, 04:49 AM

I don't think we're at a "bad" point. Too conservative? Yeah. I think breastfeeding is perfectly natural and fine. But, you know, there's nothing wrong with breasts being an attractive feature of the female body, either.
Oh, I agree, breasts are attractive. In fact, I've mentioned my appreciation for boobs in a number of places on the board. But when they are being employed for feeding... not exactly my idea of sexy. It's more of a time and place thing.

And when we're at a point that someone in a restaurant asks me to feed my kid in the bathroom... we're not exactly in a happy place.

Magdalen

08-08-2009, 05:07 AM

Tits

Two pink nipples,
A dusty rose
In shade
Waiting to explode.
Daily I compare their
Full blown beauty
As they parade,
Floats, inflated
upon my chest.

Forces of attraction prevail, there's no defeating Time's solemnity--

Two bouncing orbs
Golden globes
When tan,
Practically explode
Weeping in sympathy
with wailing caterwauls
They stand
And deliver, sweet
Elixer of life flows
From my breast.

Forces of attraction prevail, there's no defeating Time's solemnity--

Two pendulous weights
Pale, fleshy white,
Pink knobs
Wanting to explode
Again. Full firmness
Returns briefly
Then robs
Delight away.
Still panting,
Old lovers
Need their rest.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68507

TerzaRima

08-08-2009, 07:17 AM

Wow, this is reminding me of Women's Studies parties at college. Now I kind of want to plan a Take Back The Night rally and dig out my old Anne Sexton poems. Or, you know, not.

IdiotsRUs

08-08-2009, 12:31 PM

Next, we should have a doll that menstruates.

It's a normal fact of life, girls have to experience it, and it isn't abnormal or sexual.

Hmmm?

Small girls ( small enough to play with dolls) do not often have experience with menstruation, so why would we have dolls that do that?

Hmmm?

backslashbaby

08-08-2009, 01:21 PM

Yeah, I'm all for it. Once we made dolls that weren't flat-chested, boobs became an issue. It's good for kids to see the other side of boobs, imho. And nurturing skills are always sweet.

Now if we could get to the point that I could go braless without being seen as a slut, darnit. Sometimes you're just running quickly to the store. Sorry, just a boob-related pet peeve!

rhymegirl

08-08-2009, 08:58 PM

I don't think we need a doll to teach girls how to breast-feed.

When a young woman or first-time mom is in the hospital, nurses explain how to breast-feed and the hospital also bombards you with those videos on the TV all day long. There are also books on the subject. What is the point in learning something you're not ready for yet or might not ever even do?

TabithaTodd

08-08-2009, 09:11 PM

CatSlave

08-09-2009, 12:54 AM

Small girls ( small enough to play with dolls) do not often have experience with menstruation, so why would we have dolls that do that?

Hmmm?
Small girls (small enough to play with dolls) do not often have experience with breastfeeding either. Why hurry them?

And more to the point, why put little girls in a situation that DOES sexualize them in the eyes of many, rightly or wrongly?

What do you suppose a pedophile would think if he saw your little girl playing with her doll, pretending she had breasts?

CatSlave

08-09-2009, 12:58 AM

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4OuEfH0ftZM/SZ8N75pWJXI/AAAAAAAAEFI/dEZ2LBCjbJY/s400/pre+teen+beauty+pageant.jpg

This makes me sick. What about you?

Jersey Chick

08-09-2009, 01:33 AM

Man, that picture looks like a Photoshop of a woman's head on a little girl body. Ick.

CatSlave

08-09-2009, 01:39 AM

No, it's a real deal from one of those children's beauty pageants.

You ever watch those programs on TV? Sick, sick, sick.
Those idiot mothers should be charged with child abuse.

Jersey Chick

08-09-2009, 01:42 AM

No, I don't watch those shows - I'd probably throw something at the screen. :D

I can believe it's real. And it is very twisted.

Zoombie

08-09-2009, 01:43 AM

Yeah, I'm a bit doubtful on the non-Photoshopitude of that picture.

Got a source on it?

CatSlave

08-09-2009, 01:49 AM

I found it here.
There are plenty of other examples if the one I posted is in doubt.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&um=1&q=child+beauty+pageants&sa=N&start=21&ndsp=21

Zoombie

08-09-2009, 01:51 AM

Perks

08-09-2009, 01:58 AM

And more to the point, why put little girls in a situation that DOES sexualize them in the eyes of many, rightly or wrongly?

Why have we changed a lot of things even though some people thought they were wrong?

Breastfeeding is not sexual. Anyone who makes a sexual connotation from the thought or observance of it is wrong, unless of course you'd like to argue that any childcare - changing a diaper, holding a child's hand across the street, filling out their social security card application, whatever - references back to the point when two people 'did it'.

I'm not a big fan of this doll, because all animatronic attempts to simulate life creep me out, but a child pretending to breastfeed a doll is as fine as a child pretending to spoon feed, diaper, push around the block in a stroller said doll.

The people who are uncomfortable with the sight or thought of breastfeeding need to get over it. The people who can't help casting their thoughts to tab A into slot B at the sight or thought of breastfeeding need to get therapy.

CatSlave

08-09-2009, 02:09 AM

Google is not really a reliable source, cause it can link to any number of unfounded or propagandey websites...

I mean, you can find reliable sources WITH google but that requires checking and time and effort.
Every one of those photos is connected to a link.
I don't think I need to prove the existence of child beauty pageants.
The photo I posted was from a BBC pageant and the video itself needed a special program to run it outside of the UK.

I've spent too much time and effort already investigating this cultural anomaly, and I'm nauseated. Enough is enough.

Zoombie

08-09-2009, 02:12 AM

I, personally, agree with you.

But, I've never liked any beauty pageants.

Firstly, if you're going to have women show off how pretty there are (and there is nothing wrong with that) why not have them showcase their other abilities, like...say...strategy based war games, debate, or making pies...or anything else someone can do.

But then they'd be more like...Talent Contests, but with substantially less clothes...

Jersey Chick

08-09-2009, 02:16 AM

Does anyone watch an adult beauty pageant (which sounds like it should be kinkier, doesn't it?) to see the talent? ;)

Zoombie

08-09-2009, 02:18 AM

I would if the talent was sufficiently cool!

Like a contestant that could spin hoola hoops.

OF FIRE.

Perks

08-09-2009, 02:19 AM

Firstly, if you're going to have women show off how pretty there are (and there is nothing wrong with that) why not have them showcase their other abilities, like...say...strategy based war games, debate, or making pies...or anything else someone can do.

If someone is willing to stand there in a bathing suit and high heels with a tiara on her head and look happy about it, I am more than willing to judge whether I think she's prettier than the goofball beside her.

I do not care what they can do or what they think in the same hour they're dressed like that.

A beauty pageant is okay, I guess, as long as we're all (contestants, too) very honest about what's happening.

Jersey Chick

08-09-2009, 02:20 AM

Hula hoops of fire...

I could get into that...

Or barbed wire!

Or-or-or barbed wire on fire!!!

(JC's really feeling evil today)

POPASMOKE

08-09-2009, 02:37 AM

The people who are uncomfortable with the sight or thought of breastfeeding need to get over it. The people who can't help casting their thoughts to tab A into slot B at the sight or thought of breastfeeding need to get therapy.

I don't think anyone on this thread has a problem with breastfeeding. I think the issue as stated is, is it an appropriate focus for an eight year old? As was mentioned upthread, menstruation is also a "natural" activity. Does that mean we should have dolls that can mimic that function? And hey, while we're at it, to be able to breastfeed, you have to have had a baby, and to have a baby you have to have had sexual intercourse. Should we have those dolls as well to teach our 8 year olds? I think not.

Jeesh!!!! Let kids be kids. God knows they'll learn about all that early enough!

Perks

08-09-2009, 02:53 AM

I don't think anyone on this thread has a problem with breastfeeding. I think the issue as stated is, is it an appropriate focus for an eight year old? As was mentioned upthread, menstruation is also a "natural" activity. Does that mean we should have dolls that can mimic that function?

???

What I quoted and responded to was a reference (and not my own reference, I assure you) to people who might sexualize a little girl for her playing at breastfeeding.

All I'm saying is that some children play at taking care of dolls. If any of it is sanctioned, mimicking breastfeeding is fine play.

As for this - And hey, while we're at it, to be able to breastfeed, you have to have had a baby, and to have a baby you have to have had sexual intercourse.

And hey! to be able to have a baby to bottle feed, dress, diaper, play pattycake with, you're going to have to have had sex. What's the difference between those things and breastfeeding? Try hard, now...

Perks

08-09-2009, 03:00 AM

POPASMOKE

08-09-2009, 03:40 AM

???Try hard, now...

Usually, sarcasm is the refuge of, well you can fill in the blank.

My point was, spontaneous child's play based on observations of the world around them is one thing. Facilitating a pointedly focused function by actively purchasing an accessory for it is something else.

And yes, my female cousins changed their dolly's diapers from time to time, but as I recall, my aunts never bought them faux shit to put in the diapers!

rugcat

08-09-2009, 03:49 AM

Haven't there been dolls that wet around for years? You feed them a bottle, and then...voila.

veinglory

08-09-2009, 03:55 AM

There is a different between a kid spontenously imagining and playing, and buying boobs to strap onto your daughter.

POPASMOKE

08-09-2009, 03:55 AM

Haven't there been dolls that wet around for years? You feed them a bottle, and then...voila.

You're right. Now, what could we do with chunky peanut butter? :D

Jersey Chick

08-09-2009, 04:03 AM

Ugh.

Perks

08-09-2009, 04:46 AM

Usually, sarcasm is the refuge of, well you can fill in the blank.The irritated?

My point was, spontaneous child's play based on observations of the world around them is one thing. Facilitating a pointedly focused function by actively purchasing an accessory for it is something else.There is a different between a kid spontenously imagining and playing, and buying boobs to strap onto your daughter.

I've said repeatedly that I didn't care for the doll. Babydolls are okay I guess, but shitting machines or sucking machines or creepy-voiced talking machines that look a bit like babies are just unpleasant.

The post I was taken to task for was a direct response to this statement, not my endorsement of the doll -

Small girls (small enough to play with dolls) do not often have experience with breastfeeding either. Why hurry them?

And more to the point, why put little girls in a situation that DOES sexualize them in the eyes of many, rightly or wrongly?Breastfeeding is not in any way sexual and I think it's a repulsive connotation that should not be accommodated simply because some people are weird and unhealthily preoccupied.

ETA - I don't mean to imply that CatSlave has that preoccupation. I was just countering her suggestion that people who are should dictate what everyone else does.

CatSlave

08-09-2009, 05:37 AM

My oldest daughter was nearly four when I had her sister. For the next couple of years, while she still held a mild interest in playing with babydolls, she would sometimes pretend to nurse the baby, because that's the way she'd seen her sister fed for more than a year and a half.

I guess my question is, should I have stopped her? And what would reason - or what reason that would be in any way healthy - would I have given?
No, that is a natural mother/daughter scenario in which she learned to emulate you. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I would not equate that with purchasing a fake breastfeeding toy.

My point is that little girls are being sexualized by Barbie dolls, beauty pageants, slutwear for preteens, ad nauseam. Go to WalMart and you can buy a thong designed for your eight-year-old. What kind of message are these girls getting? Some girls know more about -and practice- oral sex in fifth grade than I do in my whole kinky life.

I just think that the concept of this doll is misplaced and inappropriate, although nothing is wrong in breastfeeding itself.

Fran

08-09-2009, 05:59 AM

My sister-in-law was made to feel like a terrible mother by the midwife and health visitor because she didn't breastfeed. To me, that's wrong.

But my brother wouldn't let her buy a toy dustpan and brush for my nephew because that's 'gay'. I don't know which is worse.

Zoombie

08-09-2009, 06:14 AM

You know, people keep telling me about how sexualized girls are now a days, but I keep running into girls with purity rings and abstinence pledges.

Am I like, asking the wrong girls out?

And, I think that both of them are terrible, Fran.

Men can like dusting!

I take a certain pleasure from smashing things with brooms and...well that might not be DUSTING int he classic sense, but it...makes things...clean?

Perks

08-09-2009, 06:14 AM

My point is that little girls are being sexualized by Barbie dolls, beauty pageants, slutwear for preteens, ad nauseam. Go to WalMart and you can buy a thong designed for your eight-year-old. What kind of message are these girls getting? Some girls know more about -and practice- oral sex in fifth grade than I do in my whole kinky life.

I just think that the concept of this doll is misplaced and inappropriate, although nothing is wrong in breastfeeding itself.I guess this is what freaks me out - the proximity of your second point to your first.

I am also horrified by the sexualization of little girls. I've been gently called a prude on these very boards for disallowing my ten year old to read the 'Twilight' series, because I think the romantic/sexual theme is too strong for a fifth grader. But breastfeeding has no more to do with sex than changing a diaper or singing a lullaby.

And on that broken record note, I'll stop.

Robert Toy

08-09-2009, 08:33 AM

Angelina breastfeeding statue

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/08/07/dnt.ok.angelina.statue.kokh

Jersey Chick

08-09-2009, 08:37 AM

Upon first read, I though that said "Angelina breastfeeding A statue"

I need to go to sleep. Like now.

ETA - after looking at the link, I wasn't really all that far off, actually....

IdiotsRUs

08-09-2009, 03:25 PM

Small girls (small enough to play with dolls) do not often have experience with breastfeeding either. Why hurry them?

They do if they see Mums breastfeeding. And then they want to copy them. This is what childran do - play out what they see their and other parents doing, what they'll do when they grow out.

And more to the point, why put little girls in a situation that DOES sexualize them in the eyes of many, rightly or wrongly? Breastfeeding is not sexual. So it does not sexualise them. It isn't anywhere near the same thing as child beauty pageants. Playing is just that - play. It's what children do.

Beauty pageants is kids ( or more proably their parents) trying to make their kids out to be little adults.

What do you suppose a pedophile would think if he saw your little girl playing with her doll, pretending she had breasts?

The same thing as if he saw her wearing shorts or pushing a doll's pram or doing just about anything

Now personally I probably wouldn't buy that doll. Mainly because my daughter has enough to have her own creepy baby army ( and before anyone says it - no I have not forced gender roles on my daughter. I NEVER played with dolls. The only reason she has them is that she was obsessed with babies from as soon as she could crawl)

But she has a doll that she feeds, that wets etc. This is no different.