Former Titans QB Steve McNair Murdered [Archive]

mscelina

07-05-2009, 01:46 AM

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/postedsports/archive/2009/07/04/reports-steve-mcnair-found-dead.aspx

Former NFL MVP and Tennessee Titans' quarterback Steve McNair has been found dead, shot in the head in a Nashville condominium. A female victim was found at his side. Local reports indicate this was a double homicide.

And a damn shame. McNair did a lot of charitable work in Nashville and the surrounding area. I met McNair several times over the years, meeting him for the first time when he was a senior in college at Alcorn State and there was serious talk of a non-big-school player receiving the Heisman trophy. They called him "Air McNair" and his stats that year were huge--about 5900 yards rushing/passing as I recollect. He was a polite man, a gentleman and a philantrophist. He was the kind of sports star you wanted to have--to the point of teaching children how to read during the off-season at literacy programs he funded almost single-handedly.

The condo unit where he was killed is in downtown Nashville, in an upscale building.

Cranky

07-05-2009, 02:53 AM

Just found this on Yahoo!, an AP story.

Looks like they don't know much more than that McNair and an unnamed woman were found shot and killed in Nashville.

McNair played 13 seasons in the NFL and led the Titans within a yard of forcing overtime in the 2000 Super Bowl. The former third overall draft pick also played for the Baltimore Ravens before retiring after the 2007 season.

“He was one of the finest players to play for our organization and one of the most beloved players by our fans,” Titans owner Bud Adams said in a statement. “He played with unquestioned heart and leadership and led us to places that we had never reached, including our only Super Bowl.”

Linky: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-mcnairkilled&prov=ap&type=lgns

MacAllister

07-05-2009, 03:16 AM

Merging all three threads. Who knew you guys were all such football fans.

Williebee

07-05-2009, 03:18 AM

Well this pretty much decides most of the idle conversation time at Killer Nashville.

Cranky

07-05-2009, 03:30 AM

:D @ Mac.

Steve McNair, to the best of my knowledge, was always one of the good guys. RIP.

astonwest

07-05-2009, 04:34 AM

Merging all three threads. Who knew you guys were all such football fans.
And apparently sit at our computers, all posting at the same time... :)

robeiae

07-05-2009, 06:52 AM

Sad.

Godspeed, Steve. You were the Heisman winner in my book.

bettielee

07-05-2009, 07:39 AM

I cannot deal with all this death. It's madness. And they are getting more horrific and unexplainable. This poor man and his family.

Lock yourself in your homes and eat healthy people.

And don't handle live chickens. My advice to you. From one who knows.... filthy little buggers.

mscelina

07-05-2009, 07:42 AM

Steve should have won the Heisman his senior year. Instead he came in third due to the voters' bias toward players from big schools.

There is serious grief and shock in Nashville at the moment. Despite the amount of celebrities that live there, security has never been an issue. The fact that a beloved sports figure of the city could get gunned down in a swanky condo complex very near the heart of the city has made a lot of people I know nervous and upset.

And yes--he was one of the good guys. The really good guys.

alleycat

07-05-2009, 07:57 AM

There is serious grief and shock in Nashville at the moment. Despite the amount of celebrities that live there, security has never been an issue. The fact that a beloved sports figure of the city could get gunned down in a swanky condo complex very near the heart of the city has made a lot of people I know nervous and upset.

And yes--he was one of the good guys. The really good guys.
Yep, this afternoon that's all anyone wanted to talk about. Even though there were tornadoes in the area, it was almost overshadowed by the news of McNair's death.

And a slight nitpick: it actually wasn't a swanky part of town. It was in a part of town (2nd Ave. S and Lea) that is being redeveloped, but is still mostly small industrial. The condos were McNair was shot are relatively new.

Even though he wasn't original from Nashville, or even Tennessee, he choose to be part of the Nashville community even after his playing days were over. He'll be missed.

MoonWriter

07-05-2009, 08:19 AM

nighttimer

07-05-2009, 08:29 AM

From CNN:

Police said they found McNair and a woman identified as Sahel Kazemi shot to death after receiving a phone call about an injured person.

McNair was shot multiple times, including once in the head, and Kazemi sustained one gunshot wound.

Asked whether the shooting was a murder-suicide, Don Aaron, spokesman for the Nashville Metropolitan Police Department, said investigators have not classified the incident yet. He said investigators have not ruled out anything, but added they were not "actively looking at suspects" Saturday night.

The bodies were found just two days after Kazemi was pulled over in a Cadillac Escalade, registered to her and McNair, and charged with a DUI, Aaron said. McNair was in the vehicle at the time.

A law enforcement source close to the investigation said the woman is McNair's girlfriend and that the residence is her condominium. Witnesses said McNair was a frequent visitor there.

Authorities were questioning people who were near the home, but they said no one was in custody.

link (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/04/mcnair.shooting/index.html?iref=mpstoryview)

It's premature to draw any conclusions, but with the police not looking for suspects, this very well may be a murder-suicide.

Over the next several days, we are likely to learn more about Steve McNair's private life than we might have wanted to.

mscelina

07-05-2009, 08:32 AM

*sigh*

You're probably right. With multiple gunshot wounds, we're looking at a rage killing without a doubt. Man, do I feel sorry for McNair's kids. I just spoke to a friend in Nashville who informed me that they had taken a 'couple of people of interest' into the police station this evening and that, at the moment, they are still considering it a double homicide. Either way, unfortunately, Steve McNair was the victim.

mscelina

07-05-2009, 08:35 AM

alleycat

07-05-2009, 08:41 AM

Oh, and alleycat--I was thinking it was that complex right there by the state building a couple of blocks up from the end of Second Avenue. (I grew up there and used to live in one of those nice high rise condo units back when I was relatively well to do and single) So if it was further away than that, then you're right.
The area is south of Broadway, not north as you were thinking. If you haven't been here in a while, the area is slowly evolving from light industrial and warehousing into more of a residential / entertainment /office area, but parts of the area are still on the grubby side.

nighttimer

07-05-2009, 08:41 AM

http://cmsimg.tennessean.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=DN&Date=20090704&Category=SPORTS01&ArtNo=90704013&Ref=AR&Profile=1027&MaxW=550&MaxH=650&title=0

The Nashville Tennessean has more details about McNair's relationship with Sahei Kazemi.

link (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090704/SPORTS01/90704013/UPDATED+10+p.m.++Steve+McNair+and+Sahel+Kazemi+kil led+)

mscelina

07-05-2009, 08:44 AM

The area is south of Broadway, not north as you were thinking. If you haven't been here in a while, the area is slowly evolving from light industrial and warehousing into more of a residential / entertainment /office area, but parts of the area are still on the grubby side.

Ah, got you. The other end of Second.

When I go home, I'll go into Nashville occasionally, but when I left Gaylord City Nashville the last time, it was for good. I'll go down for football games but that's about it.

alleycat

07-05-2009, 08:49 AM

Not so much Gaylord anymore. It's not even the Gaylord Entertainment Center now. Mostly Gaylord is confined to the Opryland Hotel and the Opry Mills Mall.

I live out on the west side of town, and work at MetroCenter. I used to work downtown (3rd Ave. N and Commerce) but that was years ago.

By the way, I drew the structural plans for the Batman Building. And still think it's an ugly building. I also drew the original plans for Riverfront Park.

mscelina

07-05-2009, 08:52 AM

I love Riverfront Park. When I last lived in Nashville, I would go out to the free concerts they had there every weekend.

But the last time I lived in Nashville, I was working at the Opryhole Hotel in restaurant management and so the entire city has been ruined for me.

alleycat

07-05-2009, 08:57 AM

Did you work in the Delta part? I drew the plans for that too! ;-)

If the storm didn't ruin it, there was a big fireworks show at Riverfront this evening. There were tornadoes moving into the area so they moved the start up an hour. It's a big show all during the day but the last time I went I got so tired and hot that I haven't had any interest in going again.

aspiringwriter

07-05-2009, 09:19 AM

When I heard this, my jaws literally dropped open. I just can't believe it.

dgiharris

07-05-2009, 12:32 PM

Hope they put out a reward and catch whoever did it. Usually, with something this big, it doesn't stay hidden for long. That is, if there was more than one person involved.

If i had to completely just speculate since I know absolutely nothing about this. I would guess that whoever killed them, knew them and was jealous to some degree with the multiple shootings.

I would hope/pray that there is some DNA evidence or a struggle took place but maybe not since a gun was involved and that tends to negate the opportunity to fight back.

But again, hope they get whoever did this. They picked the wrong state to kill a beloved charitable figure. The South doesn't look too kindly on that.

Mel...

Don

07-05-2009, 04:37 PM

The article makes it sound like perhaps she shot him, then committed suicide. Maybe he'd tried to break it off and go home to his family.
McNair, a hometown hero who did extensive charity work in Nashville, had several gunshot wounds, including one to the head. He was found on the sofa of a Second Avenue condominium that he rented, police said. Sahel Kazemi, 20, was found on the floor near him with a single gunshot wound to her head. A pistol was found near her body.
I must be missing something. I don't see how a 36-yr-old married man buying cars for his 20-yr-old mistress and getting busted for DUI makes him one of the 'good ones. If you believe the comments, he'd been "gallavanting" for years.

I also wonder why he wasn't busted for contributing to the delinquency of a minor when they were pulled over, since she was too young to buy booze.

It sounds like there's a lot of information still to come out about this, unless they can keep it buried.

Susan Gable

07-05-2009, 05:21 PM

Maybe he should have been home with his wife and kids instead of running around with a 20-year-old mistress.

I'm just sayin'. :Shrug:

Susan G.

Robert Toy

07-05-2009, 05:53 PM

Maybe he should have been home with his wife and kids instead of running around with a 20-year-old mistress.

I'm just sayin'. :Shrug:

Susan G.
Sorry, that condemnation is reserved for non-sports figures only

Siddow

07-05-2009, 06:20 PM

Every time I hear someone say what a great guy he was, what a role model, I want to hurl. He was an adulterous ass. I feel horrible for his children and the rest of his family, but I think his murder was a poetic justice.

Good riddance. I hope his wife ends up with a chunk of change and someone who treats her right.

dgiharris

07-05-2009, 08:19 PM

The article makes it sound like perhaps she shot him, then committed suicide. Maybe he'd tried to break it off and go home to his family.

I must be missing something. I don't see how a 36-yr-old married man buying cars for his 20-yr-old mistress and getting busted for DUI makes him one of the 'good ones. If you believe the comments, he'd been "gallavanting" for years.

Two things. One, I read the article late at night and missed this deduction which makes sense.

Two, the label "good guy" is attatched due to all the charitable events and community service he has done and I believe it is accurate. As for his infidelities.

I've always considered infidelities a matter between the person and their families.

Every time I hear someone say what a great guy he was, what a role model, I want to hurl. He was an adulterous ass. I feel horrible for his children and the rest of his family, but I think his murder was a poetic justice.

Good riddance. I hope his wife ends up with a chunk of change and someone who treats her right.

A little old testament don't cha think? Have an affair and good riddance you deserved to be killed? In that case I think you'd be killing off 20% of the married populace.

http://www.impactlab.com/2007/04/27/adultery-survey-the-20-rule/

************************************************** ******************

And if you are one of those who are not giving your significant other a weekly/monthly dose of the good stuff, odds are you are part of that 20%.

I will not excuse his as I do not know the factors behind it, but adultery is between him and his family IMHO.

On an unrelated note. If you are a married man the worst thing you can do IMHO is have an affair with a younger woman.

Women from that younger age group 18 - 25 yr old group are way too impressionable in matters of love and will delude themselves that you will leave your wife and kids for them.

If you're gonna have an affair, do it with an older woman, preferably one that is married since they will understand what is really going on instead of deluded themselves.

That whole saying 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' is cliche for a reason. Because it's true.

http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc326/dgiharris/the_more_you_know2.jpg

Mel...

EFCollins

07-05-2009, 08:28 PM

You know, I count Mr. McNair among the good guys. He has done a lot of good things with the charities he did. His infidelities? Who really cares? As far as I'm concerned, his sexual escapades are none of my business, and I've been among that 20% that Mel talks about. AND, I'm still married to the man who put me among them. There are times to forgive and understand. And condemning a man after he's dead is easy, especially if you have no idea the circumstances under which he acted. I'm not saying it's right, but I am saying it's none of my business. Good riddance? I'm sorry, no. McNair was one of the good guys... that doesn't mean he's perfect.

Cranky

07-05-2009, 11:22 PM

And speaking personally? I didn't know anything about his alleged infidelities. This is all news to me, so to speak.

Susan Gable

07-05-2009, 11:46 PM

Well, I wasn't saying I was happy he's dead or anything...just pointing out that had he kept his...activities...at home where they were supposed to be, this might not have happened to him.

His wife is the one who had to forgive him. Not us. If we want to, we can point fingers and say, shame on you.

And I am.

And I would point fingers at any man or woman who cheated on a trusting partner.

Susan G.

Cranky

07-05-2009, 11:47 PM

Wasn't really directed at anyone, Susan. Just thinking out loud, more or less. :) I should have done a much better job of making that clear.

Williebee

07-05-2009, 11:50 PM

We each have our own definitions of what constitutes a "good guy". Look deeper and, just like in the fiction that we write, most folks are the "good guy" in the story of their life. The characters in that story that fit the positive views of the storyteller are their "good guys".

Of course that's harder to keep in mind when somebody presses one of our hot buttons.

We also have our own ways of dealing with the ugly things we come up against in life. Some folks trivialize as a way of distancing, some react with humor -- which may or may not be "trivializing" or lacking in feeling. Those reactions aren't necessarily intended as an insult to anyone who is reacting more overtly to an event. And, neither set of reactions is necessarily less valid than the other.

wow, where the crap did all that come from?

Siddow

07-06-2009, 12:13 AM

Well, I wasn't saying I was happy he's dead or anything...just pointing out that had he kept his...activities...at home where they were supposed to be, this might not have happened to him.

There is ZERO chance one would be found dead alongside their mistress if one did not have a mistress to begin with. So it never would have happened, 'might not' doesn't even come close.

I realize I'm a bit 'old-testament' when it comes to marriage. I know, I know, 'morals' are sooo passe. :)

(dgi, the suggestion to have an affair with an older married woman instead of a young woman...just wow. Srsly? How about having an affair with the older married woman who is listed on your marriage license instead?)

SPMiller

07-06-2009, 12:22 AM

Younger women tend to be more boring in the sack, anyway. What was this guy thinking?

(That's a humorous reaction as described by Williebee.)

On a more serious note, murder-suicide seems likely at first glance. Perhaps he crushed her belief that he'd leave his marriage for her, and she got angry. That's just speculation, of course.

Williebee

07-06-2009, 12:29 AM

How about having an affair with the older married woman who is listed on your marriage license instead?)

My favorite kind.

rugcat

07-06-2009, 12:40 AM

I realize I'm a bit 'old-testament' when it comes to marriage. I know, I know, 'morals' are sooo passe. :)People have varying ideas about what is moral, what it simply custom, which things are the most important, and everything in between.

Others believe in absolutes -- right and wrong. Some apply their beliefs only to their own lives, and some feel these beliefs should be applied to others' lives as well.

SPMiller

07-06-2009, 01:14 AM

We should also consider that not every relationship, marriage or otherwise, is monogamous. Sometimes, one or both partners are fine with sex and/or love outside the primary pairing. The popular assumption that all marriages are closed is pure lolololol. It's usually a good bet, but not always. Therefore, until I see something confirming this was cheating, which we can now only learn from the wife, I'll try to withhold judgement.

robeiae

07-06-2009, 01:25 AM

Well, McNair had children and was still married to Mechelle. It's certainly possible that they had agreed to see other people.Still, that doesn't mean one can't still frown on McNair's conduct in this regard.

But I can't see how infidelity makes McNair automatically a "bad guy" across the board. If he was cheating, that means--imo--that he was flawed. He still always struck me as good guy.

I think one can disapprove of the cheating, while still being saddened by his death and still seeing him as someone that did a lot of positive things, on the field and off. I'll go with that.

dgiharris

07-06-2009, 01:33 AM

There is ZERO chance one would be found dead alongside their mistress if one did not have a mistress to begin with. So it never would have happened, 'might not' doesn't even come close.

I realize I'm a bit 'old-testament' when it comes to marriage. I know, I know, 'morals' are sooo passe. :)

(dgi, the suggestion to have an affair with an older married woman instead of a young woman...just wow. Srsly? How about having an affair with the older married woman who is listed on your marriage license instead?)

You are right, if he didn't have the affair, then (assuming this was a murder-suicide), then he wouldn't have died. I will concede that point.

However, i'm a big fan of making sure a punishment fits the crime, and in this case, it just doesn't.

As for recommended older married women to have an affair. That was more in the spirit of, "Well, if you are going to cheat, might as well do it right..."

And for the record, I would never have an affair with a married woman, that isn't right. I do believe marriage is sacred and am a serial monogomist. Never cheat.

Younger women tend to be more boring in the sack, anyway. What was this guy thinking?

Not saying that younger women are 'bad' but yes, i've found that the best sexual experience involves women in their thirties. They know what they're doing and are comfortable doing it.

Anyways, its tragic. Murder suicides are always a downer. I always wish that the suicider would just commit suicide first.

Mel...

Bird of Prey

07-06-2009, 02:10 AM

Well, whatever. He was killed probably by his girlfriend. Infidelity aside, he's gone. In the mean time, half the clerics in Iran are opposed to the election results, and that's getting marginal attention. At this point, I'm really disgusted at all these people who claimed solidarity and a fervent interest in Iran's freedom, when suddenly, half of them are globbed on to Michael Jackson/quarterback threads, and it's as if Iran was not only yesterday's news, but some frightening fashion. I really find this appalling.

som1luvsmi

07-06-2009, 02:25 AM

Bird of Prey

07-06-2009, 02:45 AM

I don't know that that's a fair thing to say. I've been following all these threads, including posting in the Iran thread after days of no one saying anything.

News from Iran is trickling out, whereas news about MJ and McNair is easy to find. Not only that, but a lot of what's being said in these other threads are speculation and opinions. Most people posting in the Iran thread have already made their opinions known and are now just waiting to hear solid and valid information that can be shared with others in this forum who have an interest in what happens to the people of that country.

Just because a person discusses other things doesn't necessarily mean that they lack solidarity with the people of Iran.

Sorry for the derail. :)

You're didn't derail, Sarah I assume, I did.

Look, infidelity has been going on as long as we walked upright. People get caught up in expectations, in jealousy, in whatever and sometimes they get hurt. Been going on for the ages. Whatever. This fellow was no better than you or me. And neither was Michael Jackson. Just people.

And here's the worst part: nearly all the people who are talking about them never knew them, never really knew who they were or what they were about, and couldn't affect a change in the outcome if they had dedicated their whole lives to it. Why?? Because they weren't buddies or business associates, didn't have megabucks and weren't frankly anything other than onlookers. We can't change what happened to a bunch of famous people. But that's all they WERE: people, just like us all. Money and/or fame doesn't make them any better. We can be sad but to make this some watershed event is ridiculous.

But we can offer support - real support - to the people of Iran. And every last person who demonstrated - despite the danger - against that regime is every bit as important as any entertainer or a quarterback, only they are alive and a part of our future. They are real right now. They aren't living in Neverland. They are here, needing our support. I don't want to take a recess from them over something that's so - frankly - sad but inconsequential to our overall future. . . .

Lyv

07-06-2009, 03:01 AM

So if someone posts on threads you think are frivolous and not threads you feel are important, or vice versa, you make assumptions about what "real support" people may or may not be giving?

And you get disgusted based on your assumptions?

Odd.

Bird of Prey

07-06-2009, 03:06 AM

Lyv

07-06-2009, 03:13 AM

robeiae

07-06-2009, 03:15 AM

We are what we post?

brokenfingers

07-06-2009, 03:20 AM

I would just like to take this moment to point out that I did participate in the "Which Animal Are You?" poll.

So I've done my part and am guilt-free.

robeiae

07-06-2009, 03:22 AM

...and am guilt-free.
:ROFL:

Good one!

Bird of Prey

07-06-2009, 03:24 AM

The odd part (or the main one), just to be clear, is that you assume posting on a particular subject on a message board and not another means anything in terms of what actions people take or don't take.

But I find it kind of amusing that my posting on this thread and not one about something you consider more worthy (even if I am taking action on Worthy Thread Issue, which you seem to feel is impossible unless one posts in such threads) has the power to disgust you.

No. It's not what you posted personally. It's far more collective than that. Everybody who has posted here has a worthy opinion. It's not that. It has to do with the attention directed, and the intensity of that attention. . . . Look, if you want to discuss something, discuss it. if this athlete means something to you, by all means, discuss it. I stand corrected.I'll leave it at that. . . . .

robeiae

07-06-2009, 03:25 AM

Everybody who has posted here has a worthy opinion.
Thank you.

alleycat

07-06-2009, 03:25 AM

I would just like to take this moment to point out that I did participate in the "Which Animal Are You?" poll.

So I've done my part and am guilt-free.
I helped someone with an actual writing question today. Does that count?

Probably not.

I've got to go find the What Animal Are You? thread . . .

Bird of Prey

07-06-2009, 03:42 AM

I helped someone with an actual writing question today. Does that count?

More than anything I did on AW today.

But for the record, in case there's a real implication here: I don't remember writing a thread about what animal are you. . . .I'm pretty sure almost positive, that wasn't me. . . .

nighttimer

07-06-2009, 04:38 AM

It's premature to draw any conclusions, but with the police not looking for suspects, this very well may be a murder-suicide.

Over the next several days, we are likely to learn more about Steve McNair's private life than we might have wanted to.

I must be missing something. I don't see how a 36-yr-old married man buying cars for his 20-yr-old mistress and getting busted for DUI makes him one of the 'good ones. If you believe the comments, he'd been "gallavanting" for years.

Maybe he should have been home with his wife and kids instead of running around with a 20-year-old mistress.

Every time I hear someone say what a great guy he was, what a role model, I want to hurl. He was an adulterous ass. I feel horrible for his children and the rest of his family, but I think his murder was a poetic justice.

Good riddance. I hope his wife ends up with a chunk of change and someone who treats her right.

The urge to rush to judgment is understandable, but it's also like trying to put together a picture puzzle in the dark; you can't be certain if all the pieces fit together or in what order.

As Robeiae observed, McNair's female relationships outside of his marriage may put him in a less than flattering light, but it doesn't necessarily void all the good things he did in his life within the community, doesn't mean he wasn't a great football player or teammate.

Chris Rock once joked, "A man is only as faithful as his options." That's a bit cynical, but young athletes with disposable income at the peak of their physical and sexual prowess traveling around the country surrounded by a plethora of willing, able and available bed bunnies have a LOT more options than most.

The underbelly of professional sports is the easy sexual availability to young men. From what is being reported so far, McNair was not making any effort to conceal his relationship with this woman. Was his wife aware of his extra-marital affairs? If she didn't it sure seems like she could have found out with ease.

I don't know whether Steve McNair was a good guy whose marriage had crumbled or he was living a double life. He sure wouldn't be the first jock found out to be something less than a milk-drinking family guy.

However, if it helps those who want to wag their finger in disgust and wrapped up in a cloak of irreproachable virtue and suggest McNair somehow deserved his grisly fate, by all means, don't let a little thing like not having the facts slow you from casting stones.

After all, everything has always been perfect in your own marriage, right?

Why be right when you can be self-righteous?

Well, whatever. He was killed probably by his girlfriend. Infidelity aside, he's gone. In the mean time, half the clerics in Iran are opposed to the election results, and that's getting marginal attention. At this point, I'm really disgusted at all these people who claimed solidarity and a fervent interest in Iran's freedom, when suddenly, half of them are globbed on to Michael Jackson/quarterback threads, and it's as if Iran was not only yesterday's news, but some frightening fashion. I really find this appalling.

People who find others not as outraged as they are about an issue are destined to be disgusted and appalled.

The deaths of a entertainer and a athlete are not more important than what's going on in Iran, but outrage is not an emotion that is long sustained. Outrage burns hot and fast and when it runs its course there's nothing left to burn.

Iran's government kicked out the Western press and moved with ruthless ferocity to control what information was available to the outside world. The protests have faltered and dwindled. What exactly would you like the posters on this board to do? Keep posting when there's nothing new to post about?

Simply because our attention is drawn away from the bright shiny object over here to the new bright shiny object over there, doesn't mean the old object isn't important. It's just not as important to everybody until there's a reason to pay attention again.

As I found out when I belittled a thread about how the loser of American Idol getting jobbed, what is unimportant and trivial to you can be very important and significant to somebody else. I'm still treating the burn marks from the red-hot reprimands I got from that one.

The best course of action to take when people aren't paying attention to the topics you think they should be is to ask yourself why a picture of Britney Spears climbing out of a car, flashing her naughty bits to the paparazzi is more likely to be clicked on than a photo of an innocent young woman dying after she's been gunned down by a sniper.

More people are drawn to sex and sleaze than they are violence and unrest. One amuses and titillates. The other disturbs and reminds us how helpless we often are to really change things. It's easier to turn away than to commit.

Cranky

07-06-2009, 05:24 AM

Or, as I've said in yet another thread where I was indirectly reprimanded for giving a shit about something besides what's going on in Iran...folks are plenty capable of being outraged by any number of things all at once. Not that anyone should have to justify paying attention to this thing over the other thing. We all rank these things on a hierarchy of attention, and things tend to move up and down depending on a lot of factors, not the least of which being, oh, I don't know, the flow of information available on the topic?

Anyways, that's my thoughts on the matter. I'm perfectly capable of having an opinion or expressing my thoughts on Steve McNair or Michael Jackson's death while giving a crap about Iran, too. Pretty sure I'm not the only one.

dgiharris

07-06-2009, 05:25 AM

And here's the worst part: nearly all the people who are talking about them never knew them, never really knew who they were or what they were about, and couldn't affect a change in the outcome if they had dedicated their whole lives to it. Why?? Because they weren't buddies or business associates, didn't have megabucks and weren't frankly anything other than onlookers. We can't change what happened to a bunch of famous people. But that's all they WERE: people, just like us all. Money and/or fame doesn't make them any better. We can be sad but to make this some watershed event is ridiculous.

Sure, people are people, but money and fame gives one more power, and it is interesting for us normal people to 'judge' how someone uses their power. In the case of McNair, he used his power to help thousands if not tens of thousands of people with his community service and volunteer work. You'd be amazed what a quick 15 sec spot commercial by a celebrity can do in terms of support or reaching young people.

... They are here, needing our support. I don't want to take a recess from them over something that's so - frankly - sad but inconsequential to our overall future. . . .

I can multitask my outrage. Besides, posting on AW really isn't doing much either way. If you are serious about helping in IRAN, i'm sure there are plenty of causes you can donate money to, or better yet, you can board a plane, sneak over there, and lead the revolution yourself.

In a sense, i'm not quite sure what you want us to do? My guess is you are probably just expressing a non-specific outrage towards the American publics short attention span and how the media will swap out 'real' news for celebrity death news.

I can empathize, that is a pet peeve of mine. But I still see News on Iran. And truth be told, there is very little we Westerners can do. Not to infer we should do nothing. I'm all for helping no matter what. And from what I gather, we are sticking it to Iran.

We are beaming a American-Iranian television station via Satellite into Iran

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=23433

Speaking of which, perhaps we should do the same to north Korea. Maybe in that case, we'd probably have to give them TVs as well. :Shrug:

Why be right when you can be self-righteous?

Sew that on a pillow :D

Mel...

Bird of Prey

07-06-2009, 06:21 AM

Sure, people are people, but money and fame gives one more power, and it is interesting for us normal people to 'judge' how someone uses their power. In the case of McNair, he used his power to help thousands if not tens of thousands of people with his community service and volunteer work. You'd be amazed what a quick 15 sec spot commercial by a celebrity can do in terms of support or reaching young people.

I can multitask my outrage. Besides, posting on AW really isn't doing much either way. If you are serious about helping in IRAN, i'm sure there are plenty of causes you can donate money to, or better yet, you can board a plane, sneak over there, and lead the revolution yourself.

In a sense, i'm not quite sure what you want us to do? My guess is you are probably just expressing a non-specific outrage towards the American publics short attention span and how the media will swap out 'real' news for celebrity death news.

I can empathize, that is a pet peeve of mine. But I still see News on Iran. And truth be told, there is very little we Westerners can do. Not to infer we should do nothing. I'm all for helping no matter what. And from what I gather, we are sticking it to Iran.

We are beaming a American-Iranian television station via Satellite into Iran

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=23433

Speaking of which, perhaps we should do the same to north Korea. Maybe in that case, we'd probably have to give them TVs as well. :Shrug:

Sew that on a pillow :D

Mel...

Mel, it's not a question of what we can do. It's a question of interest, of intent and ultimately of priority which can translate into enormous political pressure.

Admittedly, I wouldn't know an individual football player any better than I would know an an individual tire in a pile of a ten thousand at first glance. I couldn't care less, and football is certainly not my idea of an earth-shaking contribution. Nevertheless, I get that some people find some satisfaction watching it. What the heh. It's probably better than shooting up. Otherwise, imho running down a field doesn't exactly deserve the Nobel, nor will it have any lasting impact on humanity or life as we know it, and most importantly, scrutinizing somebody because he's famous - particularly a football player - being shot to death because of an obvious tryst is hardly stuff to be analyzed, whereas the freedom of an entire nation under the cloak of fundamentalism perhaps should be of interest to any global member concerned with his/her own freedom, humanity as a whole, and - you know - should perhaps drum up a little more interest instead of suddenly being dumped off the front page because of a premature heart attack or a bullet hole by an angry lover.

Siddow

07-06-2009, 07:30 AM

USA Today is quoting the girl's sister saying that she was told that McNair was in the process of a divorce that would be final 'two weeks from yesterday'. There are no records of a divorce having been filed in the county where the McNair's lived.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2009-07-05-kazemi-family_N.htm

Like I said, nice guy.

Oooh, and I hate the 'everybody's doing it, what's the big deal?' argument. There's four kids without a father, that's the big deal.

mscelina

07-06-2009, 07:46 AM

We are what we post?

Uh oh. That's not good news for some people. ;) Think of it this way, Rob--if we are what we post in our signature lines, that makes you a moistened bint.

And it makes me an elf killer who shoots muses. Que sera sera.

icerose

07-06-2009, 07:47 AM

Mel, it's not a question of what we can do. It's a question of interest, of intent and ultimately of priority which can translate into enormous political pressure.

Admittedly, I wouldn't know an individual football player any better than I would know an an individual tire in a pile of a ten thousand at first glance. I couldn't care less, and football is certainly not my idea of an earth-shaking contribution. Nevertheless, I get that some people find some satisfaction watching it. What the heh. It's probably better than shooting up. Otherwise, imho running down a field doesn't exactly deserve the Nobel, nor will it have any lasting impact on humanity or life as we know it, and most importantly, scrutinizing somebody because he's famous - particularly a football player - being shot to death because of an obvious tryst is hardly stuff to be analyzed, whereas the freedom of an entire nation under the cloak of fundamentalism perhaps should be of interest to any global member concerned with his/her own freedom, humanity as a whole, and - you know - should perhaps drum up a little more interest instead of suddenly being dumped off the front page because of a premature heart attack or a bullet hole by an angry lover.

Look, if you're so torn up about Iran and so pissed off that any attention could be directed at any "lesser" matters then by all means DON'T CLICK THE LINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But to sit there and chastise people for participating in many discussions that happen to not be found worthy under your scrutiny is by and far ridiculous. Either that or start your own forum where only topics you start are allowed to be discussed. Your choice. But quit bitching about what other people want to talk about.

Their decision, not yours. Just saying.

mscelina

07-06-2009, 07:59 AM

QFT, icerose. By all mean, don't take a break from the important threads. After all, you should never waste your time and energy posting in a thread about a public figure's infidelity when there are so many other important issues in the world.

I understand disappointment but all people are flawed. We all are. It's part of life. So if people own up to their flaws, I think they should at least be heard with a compassionate ear.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3757109&postcount=25

dgiharris

07-06-2009, 08:07 AM

Mel, it's not a question of what we can do. It's a question of interest, of intent and ultimately of priority which can translate into enormous political pressure.

Don't romanticize the impact of interest. Our interest in the US doesn't mean as much as we'd like to believe. Similarly, just because something is on the news doesn't necessarily equate to automatic change.

Now, i'm all for media and think they are a vital part in any free society. But one of the fallacies we in the West fall in love with is the whole "the truth will set ye free" warm fuzzies we get when a story breaks on the news. Truth be told, most of the time, once the dust settles, business goes back to usual.

My point? Don't over estimate the impact of a news story and 'political pressure' by a public that is 10,000 miles away from the conflict.

Admittedly, I wouldn't know an individual football player any better than I would know an an individual tire in a pile of a ten thousand at first glance. I couldn't care less, and football is certainly not my idea of an earth-shaking contribution. Nevertheless, I get that some people find some satisfaction watching it. What the heh. It's probably better than shooting up. Otherwise, imho running down a field doesn't exactly deserve the Nobel, nor will it have any lasting impact on humanity or life as we know it, and most importantly, scrutinizing somebody because he's famous - particularly a football player - being shot to death because of an obvious tryst is hardly stuff to be analyzed,

BoP, this is the sort of shit you do that really annoys me and turns me off to your arguments.

Please stop twisting and omitting the facts from the arguments of others. The reason why we are saying McNair is a good guy is not because he played football. IT IS BECAUSE HE WAS AN ACTIVE MEMBER IN THE COMMUNITY TO INCLUDE VOLUNTEER AND CHARITY WORK!

Most of us can give a shit about an NFL player, but we care about those that make it a point to speak in schools, help out with volunteer work, speak out against violence and drugs, etc. etc. That is what McNair did and that is why I liked him.

Now, there have been valid counterarguments about not giving him the good guy title because he was cheating on his wife. Again, that is a valid point that I wouldn't try to twist by saying something like,

"Its not right some people are upset just because he had a 20 yr old friend?"

That statement is insulting to someone's intelligence and tries to 'twist' the valid point someone made and sweep it under a trivial rug of 'friends' when they weren't arguing 'friends' they were arguing infidelity.

<sigh>

You make good points and have decent logic in your arguments, but when you do that twisting/omitting stuff it really just pisses me off. You are a smart guy and you shouldn't feel you have to resort to that to make a point.

Trust in the truth and your arguments and not cheap 8th grade debate tricks.

Mel...

Jcomp

07-06-2009, 08:36 AM

nighttimer

07-06-2009, 08:38 AM

Otherwise, imho running down a field doesn't exactly deserve the Nobel, nor will it have any lasting impact on humanity or life as we know it, and most importantly, scrutinizing somebody because he's famous - particularly a football player - being shot to death because of an obvious tryst is hardly stuff to be analyzed, whereas the freedom of an entire nation under the cloak of fundamentalism perhaps should be of interest to any global member concerned with his/her own freedom, humanity as a whole, and - you know - should perhaps drum up a little more interest instead of suddenly being dumped off the front page because of a premature heart attack or a bullet hole by an angry lover.

The Iran thread started by William Haskins has close to 400 replies and is 16 pages long. It's hardly suffering from a lack of interest.

Check out Foreign Policy's "The Least Free Places on Earth (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/07/02/the_least_free_places_on_earth) and "Portraits of Instability." (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/06/22/portraits_of_instability) There is no shortage of places on the planet where people are living under the gun in poverty, war, repression, disease and filth.

So many countries in crisis and so little compassion for the ones that don't end up on television and Twitter.

But congratulations for a strong contender for The Run-on Sentence of the Year. :D

benbradley

07-06-2009, 09:33 AM

...
I also wonder why he wasn't busted for contributing to the delinquency of a minor when they were pulled over, since she was too young to buy booze.
I can perhaps answer this (or at least give a plausible reason for this) in a very few words, with nothing but the most basic knowledge about this man:

He was an athlete.

Bird of Prey

07-06-2009, 04:17 PM

Don't romanticize the impact of interest. Our interest in the US doesn't mean as much as we'd like to believe. Similarly, just because something is on the news doesn't necessarily equate to automatic change.

Now, i'm all for media and think they are a vital part in any free society. But one of the fallacies we in the West fall in love with is the whole "the truth will set ye free" warm fuzzies we get when a story breaks on the news. Truth be told, most of the time, once the dust settles, business goes back to usual.

My point? Don't over estimate the impact of a news story and 'political pressure' by a public that is 10,000 miles away from the conflict.

BoP, this is the sort of shit you do that really annoys me and turns me off to your arguments.

Please stop twisting and omitting the facts from the arguments of others. The reason why we are saying McNair is a good guy is not because he played football. IT IS BECAUSE HE WAS AN ACTIVE MEMBER IN THE COMMUNITY TO INCLUDE VOLUNTEER AND CHARITY WORK!

Most of us can give a shit about an NFL player, but we care about those that make it a point to speak in schools, help out with volunteer work, speak out against violence and drugs, etc. etc. That is what McNair did and that is why I liked him.

Now, there have been valid counterarguments about not giving him the good guy title because he was cheating on his wife. Again, that is a valid point that I wouldn't try to twist by saying something like,

"Its not right some people are upset just because he had a 20 yr old friend?"

That statement is insulting to someone's intelligence and tries to 'twist' the valid point someone made and sweep it under a trivial rug of 'friends' when they weren't arguing 'friends' they were arguing infidelity.

<sigh>

You make good points and have decent logic in your arguments, but when you do that twisting/omitting stuff it really just pisses me off. You are a smart guy and you shouldn't feel you have to resort to that to make a point.

Trust in the truth and your arguments and not cheap 8th grade debate tricks.

Mel...

Mel, there is an entire department here dedicated to sports, is there not?
And if I'm not mistaken, there's a thread about this guy there. I'll say my last piece on this subject: every day people get shot and stabbed and killed because of romantic entanglements. In my view, McNair is no more deserving of a thread here than a guy down the street. There was a great match at Wimbledon yesterday. That doesn't mean it's a political event or current event of merit, and neither is Andy Roddick's contribution to the world of tennis or his love life. And you can tell me it's all about McNair's charitable works and that's why he's getting so much attention here, but somehow I'm having a hard time believing it.

dgiharris

07-06-2009, 09:27 PM

Mel, there is an entire department here dedicated to sports, is there not?

And if I'm not mistaken, there's a thread about this guy there. I'll say my last piece on this subject: every day people get shot and stabbed and killed because of romantic entanglements. In my view, McNair is no more deserving of a thread here than a guy down the street. There was a great match at Wimbledon yesterday. That doesn't mean it's a political event or current event of merit, and neither is Andy Roddick's contribution to the world of tennis or his love life. And you can tell me it's all about McNair's charitable works and that's why he's getting so much attention here, but somehow I'm having a hard time believing it.

Is McNair's being a famous football player have something to do with this thread.

Yes, absolutely. His fame makes him visible. It's hard to talk about people who we don't know of.

Now, if this shooting happened to Pac-Man Jones (another famous football player) we WOULD NOT be calling him a good guy.

Plus, we post threads on non-famous people all the time.

Anyways, we both made our points, hope you see mine.

Mel...

Williebee

07-06-2009, 09:53 PM

In my view, McNair is no more deserving of a thread here than a guy down the street.

That is your view, as written. Looking back at the OP, a member in good standing of this forum thought that the event was worthy of discussion. THAT makes it deserving of a thread.

Four pages of posts later, it would appear that more than a few members apparently agreed, by posting in the thread, and joining a discussion.

icerose

07-07-2009, 06:28 PM

Williebee

07-07-2009, 06:35 PM

Just a quick update.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-mcnairkilled&prov=ap&type=lgns

The gun was purchased by the girlfriend only 2 days before. They're waiting for balistics and gunpowder residue to confirm it was indeed her who shot them both.

??

Are they planning on charging her body with premeditated suicide?

yeah, I know. It's good to confirm that no one else was involved. AND, that's the only part of this, since the deaths, that was anybody's business but the families.

brainstorm77

07-07-2009, 06:43 PM

RIP

astonwest

07-09-2009, 02:58 AM

That is your view, as written. Looking back at the OP, a member in good standing of this forum thought that the event was worthy of discussion. THAT makes it deserving of a thread.
I'm not sure...labeling me a member in good standing might be stretching things a bit...

:D

som1luvsmi

07-09-2009, 03:36 AM

Update (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/07/08/police-conclude-sahel-kazemi-murdered-steve-mcnair-killed-herse/?icid=main%7Cmain%7Cdl1%7Clink3%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fnfl .fanhouse.com%2F2009%2F07%2F08%2Fpolice-conclude-sahel-kazemi-murdered-steve-mcnair-killed-herse%2F).

It seems that they're confirming that it was a murder suicide. Also, that the woman seemed to think that McNair was having a second affair with someone else.

dgiharris

07-09-2009, 01:47 PM

Don

07-09-2009, 06:32 PM

THere is an irony to this. Its amazing that women having an affair with a married man are then surprised when that same man cheats on them as well.

Go figure

Mel...
Which is exactly WHY I say that fidelity matters in elected officials.

Look, if someone will lie to the very person they are supposed to be most intimate with, why in the world would anyone else believe a word that comes out of their mouth?

And no, it's not "different." It's a lot easier to lie to a whole bunch of total strangers than to the person you go to sleep next to every night.

Politicians caught screwing around behind their spouse's back should be impeached for lying under oath. That the oath was to the most important person in their life rather than a group of random strangers makes it worse, not less offensive.

dgiharris

07-09-2009, 09:51 PM

Which is exactly WHY I say that fidelity matters in elected officials.

Look, if someone will lie to the very person they are supposed to be most intimate with, why in the world would anyone else believe a word that comes out of their mouth?

And no, it's not "different." It's a lot easier to lie to a whole bunch of total strangers than to the person you go to sleep next to every night.

Politicians caught screwing around behind their spouse's back should be impeached for lying under oath. That the oath was to the most important person in their life rather than a group of random strangers makes it worse, not less offensive.

Your logic extends to all facets of life. Managers, Supervisors, CEOs, Doctors, Lawyers, etc. etc.

I mean, if a doctor can lie to his wife, that same doctor could lie to you and give you an expensive treatment that you don't need so therefore any doctor caught having an affair can't be trusted to do his duties...

I like the spirit of your comment, but it just doesn't pan out.

Human beings are complicated creatures and able to 'compartimentalize' their bad stuff.

There are people who are complete wrecks at home but at work are models of efficiency.

There are people who are fucking horrible parents, complete assholes to their kids, but are great with other people.

There are people who cheat on their significant others yet are great at their jobs.

etc. etc.

In summary, just because a human being is a piece of shit in one area of their life, doesn't necessarily mean they are incompetent in all the other aspects of their lives. Given that many surveys state that 20% (in some cases higher) of all married people have had an affair, given your logic, we should have a system where 1 out of 5 jobs are done by 'incompetent' people and that just doesn't pan out IMHO.

Mel...