Pet python kills 2-year-old

[blacbird]

Yet another tragic story about a complete dipshit:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31684161/ns/us_news-life

caw

[dgiharris]

I have no idea why we have to re-learn this lesson year in and year out.

I believe that anyone who keeps these sort of animals in their houses are criminally stupid.

But to keep this sort of pet when you have a toddler in the house is beyond stupid.

And what of their friends and family? There is no way my family would allow any family member to keep this snake in the house while a child was present. Ever.

This is such a travesty, more so because it simply did not need to be.

Mel...

[Shweta]

Ya, most snakes aren't exactly capable of learning who's family. They're constrictors. Small children are prey. And anyone who keeps snakes of any sort knows damn well they get out of their terrariums ever so often, especially when hungry.

This is the exact same kind of stupid as keeping dogs bred as fighters/hunters in a house with small children.

And me, I'd like to know why the doors were open between the terrarium and the kid's bed. It's not like pythons have opposable thumbs.

[10er]

Wow. Always sad when others have to pay for a person's Darwin Award worthiness.
As if 2 year olds aren't in enough danger of getting killed by random accidents. Nope, they had to up the number of hazards.

[POPASMOKE]

Totally agree with all of the posts above. Hopefully the local DA is looking into charging these cretins with criminal negligence and...if they have other children, they're taken from them and placed in a safe environment.

[Fran]

Pythons aren't pets in the same way crocodiles and sharks aren't pets. They can't be trained to play nice. I don't understand the attraction of keeping such creatures, but if you must, keep them away from children.

[blacbird]

Burmese pythons, which are among the largest and most powerful serpents on the planet, have become a major environmental disaster in the state of Florida. Apparently Hurricane Andrew released a bunch of them from pet shops, and they have proliferated across the state into the many thousands; some estimates put the number above 100,000. They are believed potentially to be invading Georgia and perhaps some other southern states. They can get to be 18 feet long and weigh over 200 pounds. They are almost perfectly camouflaged in forests, and will kill anything they can catch.

Addendum: In addition to the abovementioned escapees, it is apparently common practice for dipshits like the people involved in this horrid story to keep these long-lived animals until they get too big, and then just dump them off in the woods.

There is no earthly good reason why private citizens should be allowed to keep these things as "pets".

caw

[Pamster]

I hate the idea that a child died in such a horrific manner, and hope the people responsible for it pay dearly. What a tragedy, NEEDLESS tragedy. :(

[dgiharris]

I believe that part of the problem is our societal dissociation with nature.

With all of our technology, most of us are completely ignoring of the basic tenants of nature. Nature is all about the food chain. Your cute cuddly dog or kitten wouldn't be so cute and cuddly if you were 20 inches tall.

Plus, we tend to want to give animals 'human' traits.

At least dogs are pack animals, cats can be social 'enough' for co human habitation.

But reptiles are no better than dinosaurs. And snakes are the worst. Just eating machines.

And then factor in that we all think we are special. Everyone always believes that the rules don't apply to them, that they are the exception.

Sure, pythons kill kids ,but NOT MY PYTHON. My python is smart! And unlike those simpletons, I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING!!!

And then the accident happens, everybody is so so sorry.

Sorry, the worst word in the english language. UGGG this type of shit gets me so mad I can't think straight!

Mel...

[whistlelock]

I say we nip the problem at the source and put a ban on 2 year olds.

[cethklein]

I'm not the biggest fan of the idea of the government telling us what to do, but seriously, why are these snakes even legal? What possible purpose does one have to own one? They don't even DO anything. Most of the time they just lay there motionless.

[mscelina]

Just goes to prove what I've always said--the only good snake is a pair of shoes.

Or a belt. or a purse.

Quite frankly, the major problem lies with people who obtain these exotic animals when they're small and then find out later that a six foot snake is not an easy pet to take care of. Just last week in my small Ohio town, there was an incident at a local bank. A lady came out of the bank and found a group of people looking into her car. When she approached them and asked what they were doing, they said, "We're looking at the snake."

There was a six and a half foot boa in the back seat of her car.

She doesn't own a snake. As a matter of fact, when she saw the damn thing she passed out. The boa is currently residing at the local pet shelter and NO ONE is stepping forward to claim responsibility for the stupid thing. So yeah--some asshat couldn't take care of it and let it go into the wild.

[cethklein]

Oh I agree. There was a moron guy who lived not far from me in Flroida who owned a cougar. A COUGAR! Not a Mustang knock-off or a middle-aged woman, but the animal kind. He also owned an alligator. He was eventually forced to move if he didn't destroy the animals. He refused and sued (and lost. Hurray for the justice system actually getting something right).

This half-wit had children too (his wife took them, thankfully). The sheer stupidity of some people amazes me.

[shawkins]

They are believed potentially to be invading Georgia and perhaps some other southern states. They can get to be 18 feet long and weigh over 200 pounds.

Oh. Fuck.

Hypothetically, how far north would one have to move to be absolutely certain that one would never, ever, ever find such a thing in one's back yard? The Arctic circle? Or would Nova Scotia do?

[rugcat]

There is no earthly good reason why private citizens should be allowed to keep these things as "pets".So you want the nanny state to tell you what pets you're allowed to have now?

Oops, sorry. For a moment there I thought I was someone else.

[Gretad08]

:cry::rant::e2bummed:

So so so sad that a child would meet his ending in such a painful and scary way. The circus reject who is responsible for this will have to live carrying this burden forever.

[blacbird]

Oh. Fuck.

Hypothetically, how far north would one have to move to be absolutely certain that one would never, ever, ever find such a thing in one's back yard? The Arctic circle? Or would Nova Scotia do?

Not more than a week ago I read a story about some researchers who were trying to find out exactly how far north these snakes could survive. They took a dozen or so big ones, captured from the wild in Florida, and turned them loose in a specially-built compound in Georgia or South Carolina, as I recall, to see how they would survive this coming winter. These snakes are all male, so no replication will be going on. Stay tuned.

By the way, we have no snakes in Alaska. Zero. Zip. Nada.

But we do have bears, at least half of the year, when they're not sleeping.

caw

[blacbird]

The circus reject who is responsible for this will have to live carrying this burden forever.

I'd love to think so. More likely, after a few sixpacks of Coors Light, cold enough that the mountains on the cans turn blue, that being the only way the cretin will know they're cold, he'll be just fine with everything. Hey, it was a good snake, ya know?

caw

[icerose]

But reptiles are no better than dinosaurs. And snakes are the worst. Just eating machines.

Please don't lump all reptiles in the same pile. Bearded Dragons for example if properly taken care of and socialized are friendlier and more cuddle prone than most cats. Leopard geckos are rather timid and can be quite fun, they are also very gentle if treated well and socialized. Frilled lizards can be quite social as well, perching on your shoulder or on your head much like Bearded Dragons. I know, I own them.

However, just like any pet, extensive research is an absolute must before picking up ANY pet. Including research into breeds and behaviors in the instance of cats and dogs. How many of those animals are let loose or cause major damage because the owner didn't do their job? Far too many.

/end derail.

[Fenika]

Please don't lump all reptiles in the same pile. Bearded Dragons for example if properly taken care of and socialized are friendlier and more cuddle prone than most cats. Leopard geckos are rather timid and can be quite fun, they are also very gentle if treated well and socialized. Frilled lizards can be quite social as well, perching on your shoulder or on your head much like Bearded Dragons. I know, I own them.

However, just like any pet, extensive research is an absolute must before picking up ANY pet. Including research into breeds and behaviors in the instance of cats and dogs. How many of those animals are let loose or cause major damage because the owner didn't do their job? Far too many.

/end derail.

QFT, and not a derail imo

[blacbird]

Please don't lump all reptiles in the same pile. Bearded Dragons for example if properly taken care of and socialized are friendlier and more cuddle prone than most cats. Leopard geckos are rather timid and can be quite fun, they are also very gentle if treated well and socialized. Frilled lizards can be quite social as well, perching on your shoulder or on your head much like Bearded Dragons. I know, I own them.

Not a problem. Bearded dragons and leopard geckos and frilled lizards don't grow to be eighteen feet long and weight 200 pounds. If they did, I suspect you might view them a little differently. I doubt you'd feel the same about keeping a Komodo dragon for a pet. I own . . no, wait a minute . . . two domestic cats allow me to live in their house. They weigh about ten pounds or so. They are nice, affectionate, entertaining, etc. I have no desire to house a tiger.

This mouthbreather who kept this snake might just as well have kept a Nile crocodile.

caw

caw

[dgiharris]

There was a six and a half foot boa in the back seat of her car.

She doesn't own a snake. As a matter of fact, when she saw the damn thing she passed out.

Not a very good survival instinct LOL

Oh I agree. There was a moron guy who lived not far from me in Flroida who owned a cougar. A COUGAR! Not a Mustang knock-off or a middle-aged woman, but the animal kind. He also owned an alligator. He was eventually forced to move if he didn't destroy the animals. He refused and sued (and lost. Hurray for the justice system actually getting something right).

This half-wit had children too (his wife took them, thankfully). The sheer stupidity of some people amazes me.
Stupidity + Ego = accident waiting to happen

Hypothetically, how far north would one have to move to be absolutely certain that one would never, ever, ever find such a thing in one's back yard? The Arctic circle? Or would Nova Scotia do? Hmmm.... I guess it depends on how well these reptiles do in the winter. Can pythons hibernate? I'll have to google.

Not more than a week ago I read a story about some researchers who were trying to find out exactly how far north these snakes could survive. They took a dozen or so big ones, captured from the wild in Florida, and turned them loose in a specially-built compound in Georgia or South Carolina, as I recall, to see how they would survive this coming winter. These snakes are all male, so no replication will be going on. Stay tuned.

INterestingly enough, the only natural predator these snakes have are alligators and perhaps the big birds (when the snakes are babies). Otherwise, with nothing to check their expansion, if they can hibernate in the cold, there is probably no limit to where they can go. But I suspect that the 'cold' will be the principle factor keeping them south of I-40.

:cry::rant::e2bummed:
The circus reject who is responsible for this will have to live carrying this burden forever.
I'm not a big fan of people being punished by their own guilt. Sure, in some cases that is sufficient, but in cases of criminal stupidity and negligence, he needs to be punished to the full extent of the law, if for nothing else to show the other retards out there that this will happen to them WHEN their stupid pet escapes.

Please don't lump all reptiles in the same pile. Bearded Dragons for example if properly taken care of and socialized are friendlier and more cuddle prone than most cats. Leopard geckos are rather timid and can be quite fun, they are also very gentle if treated well and socialized. Frilled lizards can be quite social as well, perching on your shoulder or on your head much like Bearded Dragons. I know, I own them.

However, just like any pet, extensive research is an absolute must before picking up ANY pet. Including research into breeds and behaviors in the instance of cats and dogs. How many of those animals are let loose or cause major damage because the owner didn't do their job? Far too many. .

I have to disagree. You are simply misinterpreting their behavior. Just because I can cuddle a plant doesn't make it cuddly.

Reptiles do not have the cognitive function nor brain types to make 'good' pets. At best, they are just mobile plants responding to stimuli. These reptiles will not respond to their names, will not attempt to protect you in any fashion, and are just eating machines.

If you are not on the menu, then they could really care less about you. And the smaller reptiles, the ones that fit in your hand, are just bio-chemical toys. They just run around and look for bugs to eat.

Now, the only reason these are 'acceptable' pets is becuase they pose virtually no danger to their masters.

BUt if you took those same pets, and genitically modified them so they were the size of a german shepard, those cute cuddly reptiles would eat you without a second thought.

Mel...

[som1luvsmi]

A guy that used to live down the street from me had a big boa.

Now, I kinda like snakes. But when I was walking past this guys house one day, my kids asked him if they could look at the snake. He said that it was in the backyard, but he didn't know exactly where because it was hiding.
Needless to say, we didn't walk near his house or play outside for quite a while.

[Cranky]

I'm quite sure the other "retards" won't get it until it happens them.

We've seen case after case of people buying pets without doing their research, without training the pet properly, and then abandoning them or having to have the animal destroyed because they couldn't or wouldn't be responsible pet owners. This is more of the same, only worse in some ways, because of the particularly gruesome way this poor child died.

"Retard". Jeebus Crisp.

[blacbird]

"Retard". Jeebus Crisp.

re-tard. n. Person of Intellectual Challenges. Fuckhead.

-- Blacbird's Unabridged Dictionary, 2009 ed.

caw

[Cranky]

Right. Because those two are clearly synonyms.

[blacbird]

Right. Because those two are clearly synonyms.

Alternative definitions, as many words have. In this case, first the kind one, second, the more general unkind one. You probably should read more of Blacbird's Dictionary.

caw

[Cranky]

Beside the point, anyway. Sorry to have derailed, just could not let that pass. Never could. A character flaw, I'm sure.

Onwards.

[blacbird]

character flaw compound n. That which neither Blacbird nor Scarletmcpeaches possesses.

-- Blacbird's Unabridged Dictionary, 2009 ed.

caw

[Nakhlasmoke]

While this story is horrible, and I agree that there needs to be more (and stricter) legislation regarding the keeping of exotic pets, can I just say I love love love the judgemental nitwittery being displayed here.

Not all people want to own a cat or a dog. Some people are fascinated by spiders, reptiles, fish, birds, and heck, at least one AWer has a cockroach....

Just because you don't like a certain animal doesn't mean that no-one else should be allowed to keep it.

[blacbird]

.Just because you don't like a certain animal doesn't mean that no-one else should be allowed to keep it.

I got no problem with a cockroach. As long as it doesn't get 18 feet long and weigh 200 pounds and prey on children. Let's apply some common sense here.

Look, we already have restrictions on private ownership of a variety of animals: Birds of prey, exotic endangered species, other animals considered too hazardous to the public. Why 200-pound constrictor snakes aren't on that list kinda mystifies me. This isn't the first time one of them has killed somebody.

caw

[Shweta]

Goodness, what a lot of "Why would anyone ever own a snake".
a) Because they are beautiful, they feel nice, and there's something fascinating about how they move. Why would anyone ever own fish?
b) Jumping from "python" to "snake" is like seeing a "death by tiger" news story and goes off about how nobody should ever own a cat. Or seeing a shark attack story and railing against goldfish. Most snake owners own small and non-harmful critters. My california king snake, when I had him, could do less harm to a human than a hamster could.

I don't see why anyone's allowed to own a python without serious licensing. It's not like people are allowed to own tigers. And that's not a nanny-state rule, that's plain common sense at a societal level.

On another note, I'm with Cranky. Using terms meaning actual cognitive impairment to refer to people who are neurotypical but selfish and careless and thus do stupid things, is insensitive and cruel at best. Why insult people with cognitive disabilities? This dipshit is probably cognitively closer to any of us posting here.

[blacbird]

If it wasn't clear before, I too object to the use of the term "retard" in regards to the adult (or, more likely, adults) responsible for this tragedy. So let's find a more clear analytically technical term for them. I already suggested one:

Fuckhead.

I sincerely hope we can soon apply another one:

Inmate.

caw

[mscelina]

I'm with Cranky. Using terms meaning actual cognitive impairment which refer to an actual problem actual people have, to refer to people who are neurotypical but selfish and careless and thus do stupid things, is nasty and uncalled-for.

Why insult people with cognitive disabilities? This dipshit was probably far more like the people posting, cognitively, than like them.
Hey! I resent that! I made a very clever comment about the only good snake being a pair of shoes.

I was reasonably proud of that line too...

*sniff*

[Shweta]

Hey! I resent that! I made a very clever comment about the only good snake being a pair of shoes.

I was reasonably proud of that line too...

*sniff*
Personally, I want to spit on snakeskin shoes. But I wasn't talking about your comment. I agree it was very clever, though it could almost have been designed to upset me.

[Shweta]

If it wasn't clear before, I too object to the use of the term "retard" in regards to the adult (or, more likely, adults) responsible for this tragedy. So let's find a more clear analytically technical term for them. I already suggested one:

Fuckhead.

I sincerely hope we can soon apply another one:

Inmate.

caw

I'd get behind that :)

[dgiharris]

While this story is horrible, and I agree that there needs to be more (and stricter) legislation regarding the keeping of exotic pets, can I just say I love love love the judgemental nitwittery being displayed here.

Not all people want to own a cat or a dog. Some people are fascinated by spiders, reptiles, fish, birds, and heck, at least one AWer has a cockroach....

Just because you don't like a certain animal doesn't mean that no-one else should be allowed to keep it.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. If the reptile or exotic pet in question cannot harm or kill a child, then have fun owning as many as you like.

You like the exotic glow-in-the-dark gecko, great, let a hundred of them run around your house.

You want to own a spitting Cobra because it is cool. Ummmm... No.

You want to own a 14 ft long 150lb python. Ummm... No.

Mel...

[jst5150]

"The baby's dead!" the sobbing caller from the house screamed to a 911 dispatcher in a recording. "Our stupid snake got out in the middle of the night and strangled the baby."

Right, because the smart snake store was closed the day he bought his.

[Nakhlasmoke]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. If the reptile or exotic pet in question cannot harm or kill a child, then have fun owning as many as you like.

You like the exotic glow-in-the-dark gecko, great, let a hundred of them run around your house.

You want to own a spitting Cobra because it is cool. Ummmm... No.

You want to own a 14 ft long 150lb python. Ummm... No.

Mel...

I know a number of people who own venomous snakes or large constrictors of various types.

They do know what they're doing so I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to.

On the other hand, I'm with you in the the sense that I think there needs to be much stricter control over who owns pets like these. Not just because people could get hurt, but also because many people get pets like this for some stupid cool-factor, and then have no idea how to properly take care of them and the animals suffer too.

There should be tests, licence fees and home-visits by experienced exotic animal keepers before anyone is allowed to keep dangerous exotic animals.

[Gretad08]

Right, because the smart snake store was closed the day he bought his.

Yeah, I heard the 911 tape this morning...wish I hadn't b/c I would like to forget about this story. It's particularly painful to me to hear about the death of a child in a violent way.

Why in the hell do we have to sensationalize a news story even more by playing the 911 tape? I think most of us assumed that the authorities were called, and that probably the call was a frantic one. It should have been left at that.

[Gretad08]

Not a very good survival instinct LOL

I'm not a big fan of people being punished by their own guilt. Sure, in some cases that is sufficient, but in cases of criminal stupidity and negligence, he needs to be punished to the full extent of the law, if for nothing else to show the other retards out there that this will happen to them WHEN their stupid pet escapes

Mel...


I agree completely...I didn't mean to imply that he should only be punished by his guilt...just stating that he will be punished by his guilt.

Unless, as Blacbird has pointed out, he's just a completely unfeeling mouthbreathing fuckhead.

[jst5150]

I used this anaolgy elsewhere in the forum, but: this is the tiger biting Roy. Roy worked with the Tiger for so long that he forgot the Tiger was a meat-eating predator. And one day, the Tiger remembered and bit Roy.

In a domestic setting where various social rules apply, a snake like that just doesn't make sense in the same sense keeping a weapon in the house may not make sense with children around. A gun is fine in a safe. A snake won't survive in a safe.

The 9-1-1 caller called it a "stupid snake," like he was referring to his kid brother who just knocked off a neighbor's mailbox with a baseball bat. The community, the courts and every deity that commands some form of law and violence should ensure maximum punishment is pressed into every cell of his body. And when that's done, burn what's left.

[nahalwi]

Yeah, I do really hate the fact that people lump 'snakes' all together and just assume it's bad to have any snake as a pet. There are PLENTY of small snakes that make fine pets for people who want something unique. Rat snakes, water snakes, grass snakes. They are all over florida in masses, you don't need a permit for any of them, and they are as dangerous as a parakeet, hamster, poodle, etc.

People are just idiots, don't do research, and don't think about the fact that these things are not 'tamable' and a child is just 'food' in their minds because anything that is smaller than them = food.

[LaceWing]

An aside, re insults and the like

Just because I feel like saying so and now seems like a good time -- out of idiot, cretin, moron, half-wit, mouth-breather and retard, retard only stands out from the rest for being the most politically incorrect.

No answer expected. Just requesting a moment of thought.

[dgiharris]

I know a number of people who own venomous snakes or large constrictors of various types.

They do know what they're doing so I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to.

This is an area where we will have to agree to disagree.

The VAST majority of accidents involving a animal of this sort involved so called self appointed 'experts' that knew what they were doing. Hence the term 'accident'.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with a risk assessment and risk analysis.

Basically, there are two components to a risk assessment.
1) Probability of Occurence
2) Severity of Accident

You multiply these two factors together and the result is your risk assessment.

So here is the problem with owning a venomous or constrictor snake.

Lets say that you are 99.9% diligent in securing this snake. If you own this snake for 5 years, basic probability says it will escape one day out of those 5 yrs. During that one day of escape, it kills a pet or child.

Was it worth owning that snake?

THere are plenty of cool non-lifethreatening animals out there. Go buy an octopus, penguin, emu, lemur, kangaroo, ant eater, ardvark, giant toad, bearded lizard, etc. etc.

With all the BILLIONS of species of animals out there, why the hell do you need to own one that if it escapes the consequences will be beyond catastrophic.

I don't know what it is in the human condition that enables our egos to trump common sense and endanger not only our fellow man, but our own children?

Mel...

[dgiharris]

Story Time: Cat vs. Newborn

A hippie friend of mine had a 9 month old pregnant wife. Then, one week before the baby was due, an unknown stray cat took up residence in their house. When I say 'took up residence', I mean, the cat jumped through the window, into the house, and refused to leave.

They (my friend and his wife), being hippie environmentalist 'we are all god's creatures' humanitarians, decided to keep the cat.

I was furious. I told them that they don't know this cat, it could be violent, crazy, attack the baby, etc. etc.

They then proceeded to tell me that everything would be fine, that I was over-reacting.

I told them that yes, I was probably over-reacting because the cat is an unknown, so why would they risk their baby's life and safety for an unknown, no matter how small that probability of an accident would be.

My logic was simple, zero percent probability of the cat hurting the baby was BETTER than a small probability of the cat hurting the baby.

How do you get a zero probability? Simple, get rid of the damn stray cat.

But no, they wouldn't listen. I ranted and raved at them the entire week until we were no longer friends.

Then she had the baby.

Fast forward two weeks.

The wife calls him at work screaming into the phone. The stray caught was lying dead, in the baby's room in a pool of blood and vomit.

Thankfully, the cat did not attack the baby. It merely died in a pool of its own blood and vomit. Oh, did I mention that the cat loved to snunggle with the baby :)

Hmmm.... Newborn baby? Diseased dead cat? What in the world could be wrong with that?

They rushed the dead cat to the vet to figure out what the hell the cat had (they never took the cat to the vet until then) as well as rushed the baby to the hospital just in case.

Turned out the cat had some godawful super contagious parasite as well as several highly contagious pet diseases. Luckily, the diseases were not transmittable to humans, however the parasite were. Unfortunately, the medication to kill the parasites would seriously harm (possibly kill) the baby and the parasites also likewise would probably kill the baby.

They monitored the baby for weeks, and as luck would have it, the baby did not have any of the parasites.

Moral of the story. Why risk the most precious thing in the world on an unknown? Why take the risk.

My hippie friend was a fellow scientist. Big brained type too smart for his own good. In his words, "he knew cats" and "cats can't transmit diseases to humans so there's nothing to worry about" and "the cat belonged to somebody so probably already had its shots" and a host of other 'deductions' that allowed his ego to trump common sense.

*sigh*

It's just funny that we have to relearn the same lessons over and over again

Mel...

[cray]

Reptiles do not have the cognitive function nor brain types to make 'good' pets. At best, they are just mobile plants responding to stimuli. These reptiles will not respond to their names, will not attempt to protect you in any fashion, and are just eating machines.

If you are not on the menu, then they could really care less about you. And the smaller reptiles, the ones that fit in your hand, are just bio-chemical toys. They just run around and look for bugs to eat.

Now, the only reason these are 'acceptable' pets is becuase they pose virtually no danger to their masters.

BUt if you took those same pets, and genitically modified them so they were the size of a german shepard, those cute cuddly reptiles would eat you without a second thought.

Mel...



qft.

[rhymegirl]

I believe that anyone who keeps these sort of animals in their houses are criminally stupid.

But to keep this sort of pet when you have a toddler in the house is beyond stupid.

I think this summarizes it rather well.

[icerose]

Not a problem. Bearded dragons and leopard geckos and frilled lizards don't grow to be eighteen feet long and weight 200 pounds. If they did, I suspect you might view them a little differently. I doubt you'd feel the same about keeping a Komodo dragon for a pet. I own . . no, wait a minute . . . two domestic cats allow me to live in their house. They weigh about ten pounds or so. They are nice, affectionate, entertaining, etc. I have no desire to house a tiger.

This mouthbreather who kept this snake might just as well have kept a Nile crocodile.

caw

caw

Yeah because I'm not stupid. But he didn't specify reptiles that will eat you and your family if given the chance, he said REPTILES.


I have to disagree. You are simply misinterpreting their behavior. Just because I can cuddle a plant doesn't make it cuddly.

Reptiles do not have the cognitive function nor brain types to make 'good' pets. At best, they are just mobile plants responding to stimuli. These reptiles will not respond to their names, will not attempt to protect you in any fashion, and are just eating machines.

You have a right to your opinion, but I strongly disagree. I'll use bearded dragons as an example. Bearded dragons SEEK attention. They have stress colors, they will literally grow darker if they are unhappy. They do a thing called gaping to both let off excessive heat and to display they are happy.

Cuddling a plant requires me to go to the plant pick it up and cuddle it. With no input from a plant. Cuddling a bearded dragon requires them to climb up your shoulder, nuzzle you with their mouths and gape because they are displaying how happy they are.

You can give a bearded dragon everything it needs outside of affection and it will become miserable if it's used to attention. One of the top reasons bearded dragons die in captivity is from depression due to lack of affection from their owners.

Our bearded dragon will climb the screen on its cage and go extremely dark if we do not pick it up that day. When we pick it up, it lightens quite a bit and gapes and nuzzles and paws for more attention. If you do not pet it enough, it will paw at you to get you to pay attention to it.

And this isn't because the environment is more comfortable or that we carry bugs on our shoulders. The environment in its cage is ideal, but it loves to get out. They are extremely curious and loving creatures, not mindless eating machines. As adults they only eat once a day, what do they do the rest of the time, sleep? I think not. What about the reduction in stress by getting it out and petting it and letting it perch and feel close to you? Another mindless eating function?

[Cyia]

I used this anaolgy elsewhere in the forum, but: this is the tiger biting Roy. Roy worked with the Tiger for so long that he forgot the Tiger was a meat-eating predator. And one day, the Tiger remembered and bit Roy.

Bad analogy.

The tiger in Roy's case didn't "bite" him. If it had bitten him like it would prey, he'd have been dead without question. He was having health problems, and an animal used to a certain sound from his heart realized something was wrong. It pulled him off stage the way it would have one of its own - however, a man doesn't have the anatomy to be handled that way by a tiger and his skin buckled under the pressure of its jaws and teeth along with the dragging motion. (It takes less than 1 pound of pressure to break human skin, tigers exert much more than that). Even Roy knew the animal wasn't trying to hurt him, which is why he was worried about them destroying it. (which they can't legally do unless it's rabid)


Most people don't understand animal's natural instincts and their reactions to outside influences. If you're going to have an exotic animal, then you should know how it reacts in different situations. And if you have children, then you should take that into account. Animals will act like animals, people have to be the responsible parties.

There was a situation here a few years ago where a young gorilla escaped his paddock at the zoo. People freaked out, ran around like they were insane. The most aggressive this animal got was to pull a shoe off a little girl and examine the buckle on it. Instead of letting the zookeepers tranq it, they call the police who sent in cops in full riot gear.

A young male gorilla is suddenly confronted by a line of men in black padding that makes them look larger than they actually are - he thought they were male primates challenging him (which, in a way, they were) - so he charged and they killed him.

[dgiharris]

You have a right to your opinion, but I strongly disagree. I'll use bearded dragons as an example. Bearded dragons SEEK attention. They have stress colors, they will literally grow darker if they are unhappy. They do a thing called gaping to both let off excessive heat and to display they are happy.

I have a hard time picturing a 'happy' reptile. Does your reptile gape at the sound of your voice?

Or do they just like the physical sensation of being rubbed? Would they get the same enjoyment from a mechanical 'petter' that stroked it?

I could be wrong. I'm just basing my argument off of the brain of reptiles. It's my understanding that their brains are pretty basic, little more than a brain stem really with no cognitive centers.

I mean, every living organism responds to stimuli, the question then remains, are those responses due to emotion and 'cognition' i.e. they have some level of understanding, or are the responses just the normal automatic reflex that every organism has.

I guess we would also have to define what exactly we mean by emotion. I guess I would define it as 'behavior beyond basic instincts.

And then I would be interested in learned behavoirs. Can you teach it any tricks?

For instance.

There is a famous case where a man was killed in Florida, beaten to death inside his home. The man had a pet cockatoo and the police were able to catch the killer because the cockatoo 'attacked' the assailant during the murder. The assailant killed the bird, but the bird had the assailant's blood in its beak and talons (assailant actually ripped the birds feet off, the bird put up one hell of a fight).

Police ran the blood through their computers, got a DNA match and caught the crock.

Anyways, the bird clearly loved its owner and actually fought for the owner. Now, will a reptile have this same level of emotion/cognitive ability. Probably not. Perhaps, this is an unfair metric since obviously birds are way smarter than reptiles.

I dunno. I guess I see people projecting their traits onto 'things' all the time and I can't help but think that reptile owners do that as well. I mean, you never hear fish owners claiming that the fish love them and are sad when they are gone. Fish are just fish.

Mel...

[mscelina]

Oh, I don't know Mel. We used to have a fish that would come to the top of the tank to be petted.

Of course, then the cat got it.

[icerose]

Okay, so let's say reptiles are merely responding to stimuli, wandering plants as you called them. How does that make them any less valid as pets? Would a cat protect you if a burgler came to kill you? I highly doubt it. What about a toy dog, hamster, fish, bunny, I mean really the list goes on.

Is your first consideration of a pet "Will this pet come to my aid?" If the answer is no is it an absolutely no way to get it?

People get pets for various reasons. We get our pets partially because we're allergic to cats and dogs and live in an apartment. We also happen to love reptiles and we're willing to take proper care of them.

I may be transfering traits onto my reptiles, but at the same time it is true that the leading causes of death in beardies are poor care and depression. The depression comes from lack of stimulation from the owner. Our beardie will literally pout if he doesn't get his attention. Nothing in his cage will be wrong, but he'll drag out his salad and hide in the darkest corner and go completely dark, stress colors, if he does not get his attention. Only when we pull him out and pet him and let him sit on our shoulders for a while does he cheer up again.

Even if he didn't I still don't see how reptiles are somehow lesser pets.

[dgiharris]

Okay, so let's say reptiles are merely responding to stimuli, wandering plants as you called them. How does that make them any less valid as pets? Would a cat protect you if a burgler came to kill you? I highly doubt it. What about a toy dog, hamster, fish, bunny, I mean really the list goes on.

Yeah, that is the problem with my example. I wasn't so much saying that unless your pet dies to protect you its not a pet. I was just trying to think of an example that showed, 'emotion'


People get pets for various reasons. We get our pets partially because we're allergic to cats and dogs and live in an apartment. We also happen to love reptiles and we're willing to take proper care of them.

I may be transfering traits onto my reptiles, but at the same time it is true that the leading causes of death in beardies are poor care and depression. The depression comes from lack of stimulation from the owner. Our beardie will literally pout if he doesn't get his attention. Nothing in his cage will be wrong, but he'll drag out his salad and hide in the darkest corner and go completely dark, stress colors, if he does not get his attention. Only when we pull him out and pet him and let him sit on our shoulders for a while does he cheer up again.

Even if he didn't I still don't see how reptiles are somehow lesser pets.

I will say this. Based on your descriptions of your bearded dragon, I think I can concede that it has some level of emotion.

In terms of people right's to have pets. IMHO, if the pet is not dangerous or poses a health risk, then you have every right to have that pet. Sorry if my earlier posts seemed to slam all reptile owners. I will admit, I do think snakes are cool. My curiosity just ends once we move into the realm of 'that snake can kill you'.

Personally, one day I hope to become ubber rich so I can have a pet octopus.

Octopus (octopussies???) are the 4th smartest animal on the planet and I bet you could train them to do some really cool tricks.

And penguins are sorta smart, they might make a cool pet (no pun intended).

And giraffes would be AWESOME pets, except they are kinda big. Perhaps a midget giraffe. Now that would be something, a 5 ft giraffe. They are very docile and social.

Mel...

[blacbird]

I still don't see how reptiles are somehow lesser pets.

18-foot long 200-pound constrictors are most certainly not "lesser" pets.

The issue broached in this thread isn't one of reptile vs. mammal vs. bird. It's one of dangerous large predator vs. child.

caw

[dgiharris]

18-foot long 200-pound constrictors are most certainly not "lesser" pets.

The issue broached in this thread isn't one of reptile vs. mammal vs. bird. It's one of dangerous large predator vs. child.

I unwittingly derailed the thread by slamming all reptile owners :D

I apologized, and I think we are back on track now.

Mel...

[mscelina]

18-foot long 200-pound constrictors are most certainly not "lesser" pets.

The issue broached in this thread isn't one of reptile vs. mammal vs. bird. It's one of dangerous large predator vs. child.

caw

Very true. A 20-inch tall toddler has no chance against a 12 foot long python. The same principles that apply to pit bull owners should apply here. When an animal becomes a danger to the humans around it, it is no longer just a pet. Owners always act so surprised when a pit bull, that they have trained to attack, uses that instinct against a child or a neighbor. Why is it a surprise? That's what the darn animal was bred to do. Same thing with snakes. Python gets hungry, python smells sleeping small mammal, python does what comes naturally to it. It shouldn't be a surprise.

[icerose]

I believe it's octupi (turns out it's octopodes or octopods) as the plural?

I unwittingly derailed the thread by slamming all reptile owners :D

I apologized, and I think we are back on track now.

Mel...

Okay, we're cool then. Back to the 20 foot snake. I have children, thus I would not have any dangerous pets, and that includes dogs that aren't good with children, cats that aren't good with children, large dangerous pets and so forth. My kids come first. We did extensive research as to which reptiles would best be suited for a family. Iguanas are absolutely not suitable for children and are most often decorative pets because they are extremely difficult to tame down. We did not want a decorative pet. We wanted one that could interact with our kids. We chose leopard geckos and bearded dragons, they have some of the best temperments among reptile pets.

If I were single I might consider a large snake. I do love snakes. However, I would never ever own a large snake that would grow big enough to kill me or put it in an environment where it could have access to small pets or children. It would also have to have a proper cage that it could not get out of, though pythons are tricky.

Smaller snakes can be fun pets and they'd be good with kids, depending on the type.

To me, it all comes down to research, and research is part of being a good pet owner. If you can't bother to do research before getting a pet, any pet, you should not own a pet. And people who simply abandon their pets, worse owners ever. (Well outside of the super abusive.)

[Fran]

Octopuses is acceptable too; because it's Greek rather than Latin it's not octopi. Be careful though, dgi, some of them are super-poisonous. :)

I have nerve damage in one my fingers because my last hamster was SOOOO grateful for everything I'd done for him. That was nearly the cat's lucky day, except in a straight fight the hamster would have won. Next time I'll get a proper guard cat - or some ninja kittens like the ones in my avatar ;)

[dgiharris]

Octopussies can be deadly :D

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/678715/australias_blueringed_octopus_facts.html?cat=16

Wow, don't fuck around with Octopussies, get them made and hell hath no fury!!!

This is why I don't swim in the ocean. No wonder why we slithered/crawled out of the muck X millions of years ago. Talk about a hostile environment

WOW, been reading up on Octopussies. They are freaking amazing, very very smart. In fact, gave me some ideas for an alien race that evolved from them.

Mel...

[thethinker42]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. If the reptile or exotic pet in question cannot harm or kill a child, then have fun owning as many as you like.

So where do you draw the line?

Children have been killed by the family dog, even small ones like Pomeranians. I could go on for pages describing things that happened to me while interacting with the horses my family raised (including being stepped on, kicked, pulled partway over a door by a horse's mouth - twice, and doing a faceplant that was eerily similar to the one that paralyzed Christopher Reeve). Of course, horses aren't predatory, but only an idiot would believe they're completely safe for children or even adults. Really, any animal can be dangerous.

I'm not disagreeing with you about owning dangerous animals, I'm just curious where you think the line should be drawn. Personally, I think some people are responsible enough to safely own dangerous animals, while others are too stupid for stuffed animals.

[dgiharris]

Where to draw the line?

Personally, when I have kids, I will not have pets in the house period. that is my choice. As for other people?

Dogs and cats are domisticated animals that are used to living with humans. Therefore, the probability of an incident (with a normal pet raised in a stable environment) is extremely low.

The majority of incidents involving dogs/cats and children are those in which the animal was demonstrating aggressive behavior and the owner choose to ignore it.

But we can't be absolute with everything. I mean, kids die in car accidents so then do we prohibit them from riding in cars?

So where do we draw the line?

I believe that common sense should prevail. Millions of people have dogs and cats and yet the incidents of attacks against the owners own children are extremely low given the millions involved. So that says something. Basically, when the probability of a life threatening incident is less than 1% (as it is for dogs and cats) then I think it is 'o.k.'

However, the problem with a pet like a python or cobra is that if it escapes (and math says that it will eventually) then the probability/severity of an attack against a kid (if a kid is present) is HUGE.

I don't see this as a slippery slope argument upon which we have to ban everything including gerbils. I see this as common sense. No dinosaurs in the house while I have children.

Mel...

[blacbird]

No dinosaurs in the house while I have children.

Socialist.

caw

[Joe270]

Octopus (octopussies???) are the 4th smartest animal on the planet and I bet you could train them to do some really cool tricks.

WOW, been reading up on Octopussies. They are freaking amazing, very very smart.

They are very smart. A researcher in a lab my wife worked in years back had one in a large tank. It would pick people's pockets if they weren't really careful around the tank. It certainly enjoyed interactions with humans. It liked shiny things and would steal them any chance it got, most people took off wristwatches when they had to work near the octopus.

They are also incredibly strong. I don't recommend trying to get your fancy pen back until the octopus tires of playing with it.

[Nakhlasmoke]

Wow no pets when you have kids...I dunno, I find that kinda sad, tbh. Our kids love their animals. Plus I think having an animal to care for helps teach a child empathy. But hey, this thread isn't about parenting so whatever.

I personally won't keep a snake because I have kids. Same reason I won't keep tarantulas or lizards. Kids, even well-behaved ones, have a tendency to open tanks/boxes/things they're not meant to when no-one is looking. I won't keep a marmoset because that's about as much effort as looking after a small baby.

I agree that if you have kids you really need to think very carefully about whether or not a pet-type is a good idea.

On that note, we have a pitbull-staffie cross and she is such a mummy-dog, very protective over small things, loves kids...so yanno, you gotta know your animal.

[dgiharris]

They are very smart. A researcher in a lab my wife worked in years back had one in a large tank. It would pick people's pockets if they weren't really careful around the tank. It certainly enjoyed interactions with humans. It liked shiny things and would steal them any chance it got, most people took off wristwatches when they had to work near the octopus.

They are also incredibly strong. I don't recommend trying to get your fancy pen back until the octopus tires of playing with it.

cool, can't wait to get one someday :)

Wow no pets when you have kids...I dunno, I find that kinda sad, tbh. Our kids love their animals. Plus I think having an animal to care for helps teach a child empathy. But hey, this thread isn't about parenting so whatever.

I should clarify, by children, I meant the pre-school age, when my kids get around 7 or so I will reward them with a dog. I had a dog when I was 8 and it was an incredible experience. I firmly believe that all little boys need a dog.

Back to my Octopus fantasies.

I'm going to engineer a water suit such that I can "walk" my octopus on a leash around the neighborhood. That would be super cool.

Mel...

[Plot Device]

I hate the idea that a child died in such a horrific manner, and hope the people responsible for it pay dearly. What a tragedy, NEEDLESS tragedy. :(

It's too horrible to think about.

I love a good horror movie, but I would never in a million years write a script where a child was being killed "on camera" by a constrictor snake. Nor would I ever shoot such a scene. And I would seriously disassociate myself from any director who thought shooting such a scene would be "cool."

[Plot Device]

So where do you draw the line?

Children have been killed by the family dog, even small ones like Pomeranians. I could go on for pages describing things that happened to me while interacting with the horses my family raised (including being stepped on, kicked, pulled partway over a door by a horse's mouth - twice, and doing a faceplant that was eerily similar to the one that paralyzed Christopher Reeve). Of course, horses aren't predatory, but only an idiot would believe they're completely safe for children or even adults. Really, any animal can be dangerous.

I'm not disagreeing with you about owning dangerous animals, I'm just curious where you think the line should be drawn. Personally, I think some people are responsible enough to safely own dangerous animals, while others are too stupid for stuffed animals.

I think it's a hard line to draw when sheerly legal considerations are entertained. Practical considerations can lend a balancing perspective I think.

Beyond the black and white legal argument of "big and dangerous animals should not be around kids" there is still much validity to the companion argument found in the realm of practicality that "horses supply a needed service to society, therefore private ownership of horses is valid." Same with dogs--big and dangerous animals, but part of daily human functioning and commerce. The third argument is that of valid companionship -- a dog does provide valid companionship, and doctors and nursing homes highly reccomend them.

Meanwhile, as far as separating large dangerous animals from our kids, few of us house our horses in the same sleeping quarters as our children, so that's not a real issue here. As for dogs, that's a very difficult line to draw since many dogs sleep right on top of our children's beds. Some dogs turn. Some dogs go bad -- it happens and we hear about it from time to time. It's always sad when a dog has to be put down. And yet we contnue to own dogs in the millions in spite of those true reports.

Most every-day kind of people realize the companion argrument of whether or not the private ownership of an animal is of any earthly good. Horse ownership is certainly a valid ownership, as is dog ownership. However, snake ownership is one that fails to meet the criteria of "earthly good."

While, as blacbird has pointed out, the only real LEGAL concen here (legally) is whether dangerous animals should be around children, it's foolish to dismiss the companion argument of animals that are of some earthly good. I see no earthly good in snake ownership. There's also no discernable companionship or loyalty and I doubt many nusring homes would endorse snake ownership. Snakes as pets is sheer nonsense, modern silliness, with a strong dash of aren't-I-cool.

[icerose]

Some people find "earthly good" in owning snakes. I've met some pretty companionable snakes that like to slither up and get a good pet from their owners, and their owners like to carry them around.

The problem with arguing against pets, any pets, is that everyone is different with different needs. However, I do think there should be massive responsibility when someone chooses to own a more dangerous pet and something goes bad. That includes big dogs.

[dgiharris]

Some people find "earthly good" in owning snakes. I've met some pretty companionable snakes that like to slither up and get a good pet from their owners, and their owners like to carry them around.

Snakes like to slither up anything. The only 'earthly good' in owning a snake is the cool factor. Period.

I owned a 'pet' tarantula. My tarantula loved to crawl up me but i'd be fooling myself if I thought there was any real 'bond' between us.

I tried to teach my tarantula how to fetch. She didn't go for it :)

Mel...

[icerose]

I didn't say the snake necessarily carried a bond with the owner, but the owner does in fact carry a bond with the snake. That's the factor I'm talking about.

[Ken]

... all animals are a lot smater than we give them credit for, in my estimation.
Once you begin interacting with them you see that right clearly.

[White-Tean]

Certain pets can be good for children, and certain pets can’t.

We grew up with cats when we were young children – I have fond memories of our Siamese Griffin putting his teeth on our skin in warning when he didn’t want us to pull on his tail no more. I think it helped teach us to be less annoying little brats— most of our early cats were still quite happy to be put in dresses and strollers though.

We got a dog when I was six and my sister was eight, I think it was cool that we hadn’t had a dog till that age (although it was more because we’d been moving around) but people can have dogs and younger children if they’re very gentle animals and basic caution is observed. Tessa was an exceptional dog though (a Golden Retriever) and would even be able to be trusted with budgerigars. Our other dog (Std. Poodle) who is still surviving and now old and crotchety (and our young Std. Poodle boof of a male) were both very gentle giant guardians and playmates of the two pairs of kittens we’ve hand-reared in our house (the other cats of course wanted nothing to do with them) but by the same token the old Poodle growled at the neighbour’s child when they were over and it kept crawling up at her and getting in her grumpy-old-dog space. Admittedly, the neighbours child plays with their own even larger black Std. Poodle/Labrador and so has less fear than a regular child, but even so while this is a generally gentle dog I probably still wouldn’t trust children with her at her age.

I don’t think there’s a problem with people owning snakes, as long as they’re not really ridiculously deadly specimens, but even a snake that is safe for adults (just like our grumpy old dog who is safe for us) may be better living in homes without children (large constrictors shouldn’t be in the same house).

I’d also like to vouch for pets with no higher cognitive functions. My family has a lot of very intelligent animals, but I still find watching apple snails eat algae from the glass of the tank my rather canny betta Belvedere inhabits to be really interesting, and they leave such beautiful lace like teeth patterns. Plus they’re a gorgeous colour and have lovely articulate frond-like feelers. I’m done extolling the virtues of apple snails now though, don’t worry. ;)

[regdog]

I don't see why anyone's allowed to own a python without serious licensing. It's not like people are allowed to own tigers. And that's not a nanny-state rule, that's plain common sense at a societal level.


In some states people are allowed to own tigers. I know Texas is one of them. People magazine did an article about this several years ago and one of the jackasses in the article bragged about he had to hit his tigers with a shovel so they would respect him.

One of the other tragic problems of dangerous exotic pet ownership is canned hunts. Many of these hand raised big cats end up in canned hunts were spineless shit f**** pay money to shoot them. Many of the big cats just sit there and watch the hunter as it kills them.

There is a video of one group of asshats who unleashed a pack of dogs on a black leopard in a canned hunt. The cat was scared to death and crawlng under a truck to escape the dogs who were attacking it. The hunters all smiled and posed with the dead cat. Problem for them, is the leopard is a protected species and they were convicted of harassing and killing it.


There was that horrible incident in CT were the ape attacked and maimed a woman. Apes are large powerful predators. But some people refuse to see that. Instead they only see a cute baby monkey wearing a diaper and kids clothes. Adult males are 10 time more powerful than humans and active predators who also fight viciously for dominance.

Nothing good can come of owning large predators, reptilian or mammalian. In more instinces than not, it either ends badly for an innocent person or the animal.

[icerose]

That monkey was also given human perscription medication that sent it into a frenzy.

[regdog]

That monkey was also given human perscription medication that sent it into a frenzy.

Xanax.

Real smart idea and instead of calling animal control or a person with large animal experience the owner called a friend to help with the situation.

[Williebee]

I believe that common sense should prevail.

Wouldn't it be nice if "common sense" was just a little more common?

[White-Tean]

@regdog
I agree with your comments. A lot of people who own exotic and especially more dangerous animals (dangerous breeds of dogs too) are just the sort of people those animals should be protected from.

Don't get too freaked out about the 'nanny-state' thing though. In Australia, we're not allowed to own hamsters. Of course, that's because of the vast devastation animals like rabbits have already proved capable of causing, and being an island laws on what animals can be brought in are always going to be more strict.

I’d like to think it’s because hamsters are horribly dangerous creatures to humans, but that’s just because I’m still very sad about not being able to have one. Lived in the U.S. and there was one when I was in kindergarten, but when I was old enough to have a pet of my own and we’d settled down back in Australia I find there’s a country wide embargo on them.
:<

[Joe270]

Just to put this into perspective for those nanny-staters who want to ban snakes as pets, here's some stats. Now I couldn't find snake stats, but it's safe to say they are way, way lower than dog bites.

It's another one of those 'save the children' goals of the nanny state, like banning smoking in bars in Nevada. The legislation passed despite the fact that no children were allowed in Nevada bars, but it was all 'to protect our children'. What a crock.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

In 2007, there were 33 fatal dog maulings in the USA.

http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/ViewNewsArticle.aspx?TabId=0&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en&ItemId=1059&mid=45

#1 Cause of death for children under five.

2nd Leading cause of injury-related death among children under the age of 15.

2.6 Number of times African-American children age 5-19 are more likely to drown than white children in the same age group.

9 Number of people who drown in the United States every day.

70 Percent of all preschoolers who drown who are in the care of one or both parents at the time of drowning.

5,000 Estimated number of children age 14 and under who are hospitalized annually due to near-drowning.

6,000 Approximate number of annual drownings in the United States.

I think we should outlaw water first, as it is the leading cause of death of small children.

Once we ban water, then we won't have to worry about dogs or snakes killing children.

[White-Tean]

It's another one of those 'save the children' goals of the nanny state, like banning smoking in bars in Nevada. The legislation passed despite the fact that no children were allowed in Nevada bars, but it was all 'to protect our children'. What a crock.


That is a crock. Why would children be hanging out in bars anyway?
We had smoking banned here a couple of years back in all clubs, pubs and restaurants (which was dandy) but it was just because of the whole "Hey, let's not inflict passive smoking on people who just want to have a fun night out".

Of course, we also have a mandatory pool-fencing law.

There'd be no point in outlawing snakes in AUS though, there are enough deadly ones in the bush. Obviously more dangerous species need to have restrictions as pets - which is fair, because you need to apply for licences for a large number of types of birds (even native species like the harmless looking Black Hooded Parrot (http://www.netcore.ca/~peleetom/Hooded%20Parrot%20male.jpg), IIRC) and small-to-medium sized native parrots aren't exactly dangerous creatures.

[Williebee]

That is a crock. Why would children be hanging out in bars anyway?

Because that's where the bottles are. duh :)

70 Percent of all preschoolers who drown who are in the care of one or both parents at the time of drowning.

This is the stat that bugs me. Perhaps an indication of the need for more responsible parenting and more of that common sense thing?

Then again,could be a trick of the numbers. Maybe when you look at that in comparison to the numbers of parents who take their kids swimming it's not that surprising a stat.

[blacbird]

[quote=Williebee;3767106]
Then again,could be a trick of the numbers. Maybe when you look at that in comparison to the numbers of pare

This really sounds like a misuse of statistics. Sort of like how we used to be warned that 75% of all traffic fatalities occurred within 25 miles of a victim's home. Which becomes entirely irrelevant when you understand that 90% of all driving occurs within 25 miles of anyone's home.

caw

[Fran]

My general advice is:

Don't get psycho rodents.

If you must get psycho rodents, get a cat that can hunt.

Don't get a pet that can kill the cat. (From a woman who fainted when the hamster bit her and got a concussion banging her head on the wall on the way down.)

My point is that all pets are potentially dangerous to small children. If Satan's Rodent can fell a full-grown woman who's never fainted before in her life, there's a chance a little kid isn't going to come out of the fight well. By all means have poisonous, constricting or vicious pets. Or small, fuzzy cute ones with an attitude problem. Just keep them away from small children. How hard IS that?

[darkprincealain]

Or at minimum keep the door between the terrarium and the small child's bedroom closed? Don't give the chimpanzee prescription drugs intended for humans? Too difficult for some. :Huh:

[Williebee]

[quote=Williebee;3767106]
Then again,could be a trick of the numbers. Maybe when you look at that in comparison to the numbers of pare

This really sounds like a misuse of statistics. Sort of like how we used to be warned that 75% of all traffic fatalities occurred within 25 miles of a victim's home. Which becomes entirely irrelevant when you understand that 90% of all driving occurs within 25 miles of anyone's home.

caw

Can't remember who said it, may have been Laugh In: "90% of all accidents happen in the home. Be safe. Stay at a friend's."

[rhymegirl]

The only pets my kids ever had were a few goldfish. They never wanted the responsibility of feeding/walking a dog, and I wasn't about to do it, so therefore no dog.

As for the goldfish, they loved them maybe too much. Overfed them and that was that. They then buried them in our backyard and performed a little funeral.

[veinglory]

If 10 foot snakes were in 60% of homes what might those statistics look like, hmmm? Incidence is riskxoccurence.

[Shadow_Ferret]

You know, I'm sorry the child died. It's a tragedy when children pay for their parents stupidity. That said, there is nothing wrong with snakes as pets as long as you keep them secured properly and away from the children. However, a burmese? That's just a special kind of stupid. It's the 6th largest snakes in the world. That is not a house pet. Sheesh, get a milk snake for cripes sake.

[dgiharris]

In regards to dog bite statistics

The most recent official survey, conducted more than a decade ago, determined there were 4.7 million dog bite victims annually in the USA. A more recent study showed that 1,000 Americans per day are treated in emergency rooms as a result of dog bites. In 2007 there were 33 fatal dog attacks in the USA. Most of the victims who receive medical attention are children, half of whom are bitten in the face. Dog bite losses exceed $1 billion per year, with over $300 million paid by homeowners insurance.

....There currently are 74.8 million dogs in the USA

So here is the question I have for reptile (deadly snakes) owners.

What do you think the stats would look like if Americans had 74.8 million snakes in their homes?

Mel...

[icerose]

In regards to dog bite statistics



So here is the question I have for reptile (deadly snakes) owners.

What do you think the stats would look like if Americans had 74.8 million snakes in their homes?

Mel...

A quick way to cull deadly snake owner numbers down?

[Plot Device]

In regards to dog bite statistics



So here is the question I have for reptile (deadly snakes) owners.

What do you think the stats would look like if Americans had 74.8 million snakes in their homes?

Mel...

Or what if that many Americans had water in their homes? I'm talking REAL water here -- in their homes no less.

[blacbird]

Or what if that many Americans had water in their homes? I'm talking REAL water here -- in their homes no less.

??????? Are you talking about floods, or plumbing?

caw

[veinglory]

More likely the number of children that die each year in baths, toilets and buckets of water. It must be in the hundreds, at least.

[benbradley]

Don't dilute the truth or water down the danger, call it by its Real Scientific Name, Dihydrogen Monoxide (http://www.dhmo.org/).

[Zoombie]

Again, that strikes me as a distortion.

Statistically, how many homes in America have water? ...all of them.

That's at least 270 million different ways to drown a baby by accident.

100s of babies dying that way is, percentage wise, a bit smaller than the number of babies killed by killer snakes. Because...there are less people stupid enough to own snakes big enough to kill babies.

I hope...

Me, personally, I think you should own any pet you want...but you should also accept the responsibilities that comes with the pet. If you can't handle it, you shouldn't have it.

How to determine who has the right stuff...well, we should just have a licensed for exotic animals. Hopefully that would help...a bit.