Word Count

[RoseWrites]

From what I understand, when you submit your work the standard format is 12 point font courier and 1" margins all around, word count 250/page x number of pages. I don't see anything about this on the guidelines for submissions w/any of the agencies, so does this sound correct? Do any of use a different format? Now, my processor doesn't have courier font, but courier new which looks extremely spread out across the page. Is there a font similar to courier that can be used when determining word count this way?

[aadams73]

Now, my processor doesn't have courier font, but courier new which looks extremely spread out across the page. Is there a font similar to courier that can be used when determining word count this way?

Courier, courier new, same thing. The idea is that each letter of the alphabet takes up the exact same amount of space on the page.

[Jamesaritchie]

From what I understand, when you submit your work the standard format is 12 point font courier and 1" margins all around, word count 250/page x number of pages. I don't see anything about this on the guidelines for submissions w/any of the agencies, so does this sound correct? Do any of use a different format? Now, my processor doesn't have courier font, but courier new which looks extremely spread out across the page. Is there a font similar to courier that can be used when determining word count this way?

Courier New is just the latest version of Courier. There's also Dark Courier, which I use because it prints darker than Courier New. Then there's Courier10BT, which I believe is the Mac version.

But, yes, a Courier 12 font, one inch margins, twenty-five lines per page.

"Spread out across teh page" is what makes it work for word count, and what makes the font the easiest one to edit.

[RoseWrites]

Courier New is just the latest version of Courier. There's also Dark Courier, which I use because it prints darker than Courier New. Then there's Courier10BT, which I believe is the Mac version.

But, yes, a Courier 12 font, one inch margins, twenty-five lines per page.

"Spread out across teh page" is what makes it work for word count, and what makes the font the easiest one to edit.

Okay, i guess i'm just not used to that font. If that seems to be the standard I want to make sure my manuscript is formatted correctly. Thanks!

[Aconite]

RoseWrites, have you read through the Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread in this forum? It's a long read, but it covers just about all the questions you've asked so far, and much more. Might be worth your time.

[RoseWrites]

RoseWrites, have you read through the Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread in this forum? It's a long read, but it covers just about all the questions you've asked so far, and much more. Might be worth your time.

I've seen the post but haven't looked at it yet. If it covers all this then I will definately take a look. It looks several pages long, but well worth it if it answers questions I have. Thanks :)

[RoseWrites]

hmmm, I couldn't find this, but as I format my story (microsoft word) I did 1" inch margins -left, right, top, bottom. Whats "gutter" and do I do the 1" margins for this as well??

[Aconite]

hmmm, I couldn't find this, but as I format my story (microsoft word) I did 1" inch margins -left, right, top, bottom. Whats "gutter" and do I do the 1" margins for this as well??

The gutter is the white space in the middle of two bound pages facing each other. Your manuscript is loose, and will only be printed on one side, so you can ignore any settings for "gutter." Just set your margins and you'll be fine.

[icerose]

Courier New is just the latest version of Courier. There's also Dark Courier, which I use because it prints darker than Courier New. Then there's Courier10BT, which I believe is the Mac version.

But, yes, a Courier 12 font, one inch margins, twenty-five lines per page.

"Spread out across teh page" is what makes it work for word count, and what makes the font the easiest one to edit.

Okay, I tried this, but the only way I can get 25 lines per page in Word Perfect with Courier 12 is if my Margins are set at .8 I know that isn't acceptable as they state on submission guidelines of margins at least 1 inch. So is the 23-24 lines per page ok? Or is there something I am doing wrong?

Thanks
Sara

[scribbler1382]

Change the line spacing (you don't have to just use single or double -- you can set the actual point size).

Also, don't be too restricted by the idea that you're using .8 as a margin. For one thing, even if you specify 1" margins, depending on your printer, that doesn't always translate into exactly one inch on the printed page. But the biggest thing to remember is that these are GUIDELINES, not laws. Use them in combination with your common sense based on your particular situation.

Good luck!

[icerose]

Change the line spacing (you don't have to just use single or double -- you can set the actual point size).

Also, don't be too restricted by the idea that you're using .8 as a margin. For one thing, even if you specify 1" margins, depending on your printer, that doesn't always translate into exactly one inch on the printed page. But the biggest thing to remember is that these are GUIDELINES, not laws. Use them in combination with your common sense based on your particular situation.

Good luck!

Thanks Scribbler,
It hadn't even occured to me to change the line spacing. I changed it to 1.9 and it made it the perfect 25 lines per page. So now I have a romance with 80,000 words (word processor count) 356 pages 89,000 words (250 style) that looks better than what it was doing.

Thanks again so much, I really appreciate it. I feel like such a newbie lol. I am not done with this novel yet, I have quite a bit to add and a 100,000/400 page goal to come close to. (According to Harper Collins Avon guidelines, as I plan on submitting to them.)

Anyway I am rambling. Thanks again!

Sara

[SheliaRudesill]

Please explain why publishers want the formula for a word count rather than an actual word count?

You can link me to Uncle Jim's thread if word count is covered there.

Thanks!

[aruna]

Please explain why publishers want the formula for a word count rather than an actual word count?

You can link me to Uncle Jim's thread if word count is covered there.

Thanks!

I don't know about Uncle Jim's thread but the question came up inthe Ask the Agent thread. Here is the page; it's discussed fairly thoroughly, with yet another method suggested.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525&page=24&pp=25

[James D. Macdonald]

The interesting thing for wordcount for publishing is that it doesn't care about words. It cares about the amount of paper that'll be used.



This line:

We the people of the United States in order to form a more perfect union

takes up exactly as much paper as this line:

"No!"


Ink is cheap. Paper is expensive. Remember that and much will become clear.

[SheliaRudesill]

So, why does word count matter? Why don't publishers ask for line count and page count instead? Guess I'll go read the thread mentioned by aruna. Thanks for posting it!

Shelia

[aruna]

Don't mention it! While you're visiting, why not drop into the Office Party, to the Change One Letter game. Good for a laugh!

[Jamesaritchie]

So, why does word count matter? Why don't publishers ask for line count and page count instead? Guess I'll go read the thread mentioned by aruna. Thanks for posting it!

Shelia

You can't count lines because some pages, such as the beginning and ending of chpaters, have only a few lines on them, but still take a full sheet of paper to print. Even if there's only a single line on the last page of a chapter, that page still requires the publisher to use a full sheet of paper to print that line in the published book.

[Cheryll]

Okay... I'm starting to understand this word count thing. I think. LOL

I was using the "tools" option with Word, which gave my novel a total word count of a little over 120,000 words. But if I use the "page" calculation method, which would be roughly 430 pages x 250 gives me a total of around 108,000 words. Big difference.

Not sure if that's right, but anyways...

My question is about writing contests that require a maximum word count/limit. Do you count EACH word in your submission, or can you do the page calculation method. How reliable is Word's count calculation?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Cheryll

[Aconite]

My question is about writing contests that require a maximum word count/limit. Do you count EACH word in your submission, or can you do the page calculation method.
Unless the contest rules say otherwise, assume they're following standard publishing practices and go by page count method. For publishing purposes, it does not matter how many actual words you use to tell the story. What matters is how much paper it takes to print them. Forget about the Word Count function. For your purposes, it's useless.