Milan to Chicago in Seven Hours.

[Mistook]

Here's an interesting problem. I have a character who needs to get from Milan Italy to Chicago Illinois. He needs to get from door to door in the space of seven hours.

I've researched supersonic flight a bit, and technically it's possible to get from Milan to Chicago in as little as four hours - certainly in five. The problem is that there is no such thing as a concord flight between these two destinations, much less at the time of night my man needs to take flight.

I could re-arrange dates and times in the story to make this move more believable - even having him take a conventional flight, but to do so will put a lot of other symmetry in the plot out of wack.

How possible or believable is it that this guy (he's a millionaire) could charter a private flight aboard a military-style supersonic jet fighter or other supersonic aircraft?

[maestrowork]

Don't worry.... Dan Brown has his characters flying from Boston to Geneva in 1 hour in a super-secret aircraft (Angels & Demons). If his readers can believe that... ;)

Actually, it's not unusual to go from Milan to Chicago in seven hours. I know it took about 7 hours from New York to Paris in a regular jet. So I believe it's totally possible...

[katiemac]

Don't worry.... Dan Brown has his characters flying from Boston to Geneva in 1 hour in a super-secret aircraft (Angels & Demons). If his readers can believe that...

Just a note, but almost every single person I know who read Angels and Demons had something to say about the unbelievability about that particular flight, especially since it picked him up at Logan airport. (We're in the Logan area.)

[BlueTexas]

Just a note, but almost every single person I know who read Angels and Demons had something to say about the unbelievability about that particular flight, especially since it picked him up at Logan airport. (We're in the Logan area.)

My husband flew from Milan to Chicago, by way of Zurich, in about 14 hours.

[E.G. Gammon]

Writing is all about making the unbelievable - believable. While chartering a direct, seven-hour flight from Milan to Chicago is pretty unbelievable, all you have to do is add enough details to make it believable. The fact that the guy is a millionaire is a great start. He would have advantages regular people wouldn't - since he's loaded. You could research extensively all of the supersonic jets to be accurate, but for something like this, I would just make it up. It's what we writers are good at. Unless the flight itself is incredibly important to the story, I wouldn't stress too much about it. Just create a supersonic jet that will go from Milan to Chicago in seven hours, throw in a couple details to back up the "creation" and be done with it. If readers are invested in the story, something small like that won't turn them away - it wouldn't turn me away, anyway. (JMO)

[raffaella]

Since all Concorde flights were suspended, I bet lots of people would be glad to put one of those planes to work for the right price, especially if your character can plan it ahead.

I think 7 hours is reasonable in terms of time spent flying (one way is 2 hour quicker than the other because they fly over the Pole on a shorter route, cannot remember which though), but today there’s no longer the direct flight Milan-Chicago (unless they reinstated it recently), so if your guy uses commercial airlines you have to add a stop somewhere (Zurich, Frankfurt, London, Rome).

I think Private jets are a good alternative: no fix time schedule and most of the readers have never taken one, so they cannot be too picky about how it can take your protagonist one less hour to get to destination. Plus, even regular flights can travel faster to make up for a delay if they are allowed to, so I don’t see any reason why a private jet couldn’t technically do it.



Hope my rambling helps some…

[A.REX]

The problem is that there is no such thing as a concord flight between these two destinations, much less at the time of night my man needs to take flight.


There are now:) ... (there are no 'Commercial carriers' making that flight but) Your guy is a millionare with either the ca$h or the right connections to get the Concord back on the runway. Hell, he could even have it remodled and recarpeted for that matter... fully stocked bar, hottub?? hmm. You get the idea.

Retired military aircraft are also capable of that flight, but be careful about which ones you choose, there is potential for the lack of sufficient fuel problem there...

Also, with the right connections available to our gentleman millionare, current military or experimental aircraft available that will make that flight.

Have him come up with limited burst (due to airframe and external skin friction heat weakening) ramjet aircraft and let your guy make it in 17 minutes instead of 7 hours :D

[Andrew Jameson]

Don't forget that FAA regulations apparently prohibit commercial supersonic flight over land in the US. Cite (http://books.nap.edu/html/commercial_supersonic/ch2.html)U.S. Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs), however, prohibit commercial flight at greater than Mach 1 over the United States and require that commercial supersonic aircraft, such as the Concorde, that fly to and from the United States impose flight restrictions to ensure that they do not "cause a sonic boom to reach the surface within the United States" (14 CFR Part 91).Which, I imagine, would make it rather pointless to schedule SST runs into the interior of the country, if one was a commercial carrier.

[astonwest]

http://www.wcrl.ars.usda.gov/cec/java/lat-long.htm
Distance between Milan and Chicago is about 4000 nm

Here is the fastest business jet in the world (actually, the fastest civilian aircraft at Mach 0.92, with the demise of the Concorde)...
http://citationx.cessna.com/range.chtml
It would probably have a range of around 3500 nm (just realize your character is going to have to bring someone with him, two pilots required)...so probably one stop to refuel.

(and I've heard that in flight testing, this plane actually went over Mach 1.0...)

The first site states the trip from NY to London is roughly 3000 nm.
The second states the Citation X can make the trip in around 6 hours.
Not sure if that's accounting for a favorable wind or not...
but I think you'd probably be able to convince the casual reader it could be done in seven with this plane.

Unfortunately, I don't think any military supersonic jets have range enough to go across the ocean unassisted (unless your character has some pull to get some aerial tankers and the know-how to accomplish the task a few times).

[astonwest]

Don't forget that FAA regulations apparently prohibit commercial supersonic flight over land in the US. Which, I imagine, would make it rather pointless to schedule SST runs into the interior of the country, if one was a commercial carrier.

With the Concorde, they stayed subsonic until they got over the ocean, and then went supersonic.

Depending on the story...if it was set in the future, it may be possible to convince the reader that new methods of controlling the sonic boom (which is the reason for the FAA regulations) have been devised. There is talk that this is actually going on (being researched) by some aircraft manufacturers.

If one could control the sonic boom, then it's very possible the FAA may change the rule...again, depending on the story.

[Mistook]

Thanks everybody. These are all great suggestions. :)

I hadn't thought about the lack of fuel on a military jet. Another friend of mine tells me that such a plane would have to be refueled so many times in mid-flight that it would make the whole journey pointless.

This story takes place in 1994, so Concordes were still in regular use. He'd still have to charter his own private flight on one, convince them to pick him up in Milan, etc. There must be ways to make this seem plausible. Maybe British Airways has a few set asside for just such requests, or something.

As for the sonic boom, I'd have to look into that more. The plane would already be at Mach2 by the time it hits the states, and I've read they fly so high that conflicting traffic wouldn't be much if any a problem on the way to Chicago.

Would it make a boom as it RETURNED to SUBsonic speed? If not then the only obstacle left is getting clearance to land from the tower at O'Hare. Keep in mind. He doesn't need to return at supersonic speed. He's got plenty of time to take a regular flight back to Milan when his visit is overwith.

[aspiringwriter]

Hey it's your story....do what you want with it... That's the beauty of writing stories/screenplays; they are your idea and you can do anything you want to with them.... Go for it.

[Jamesaritchie]

Here's an interesting problem. I have a character who needs to get from Milan Italy to Chicago Illinois. He needs to get from door to door in the space of seven hours.

I've researched supersonic flight a bit, and technically it's possible to get from Milan to Chicago in as little as four hours - certainly in five. The problem is that there is no such thing as a concord flight between these two destinations, much less at the time of night my man needs to take flight.

I could re-arrange dates and times in the story to make this move more believable - even having him take a conventional flight, but to do so will put a lot of other symmetry in the plot out of wack.

How possible or believable is it that this guy (he's a millionaire) could charter a private flight aboard a military-style supersonic jet fighter or other supersonic aircraft?

Don't forget the time the plane spends waiting to take off, and then waiting to land, and then getting from the airport to wherever the character is going.

[Cathy C]

You might also ask yourself if you're moving the plot along too quickly. We had that problem with one book, and the editor called it to our attention. She said while it was an exciting section, it was too much so -- it moved at such a breakneck speed that it dragged the reader's attention away from the plot.


Downtime isn't a bad thing in a plot. Letting the character have a 14 hour flight via Milan, as BlueTexas suggested, might let him/her breathe for a moment. The flight doesn't have to be detailed in the plot, but losing a day to reality is sometimes an even more effective "panic button."

Just a thought: :D

[aruna]

[QUOTE=Mistook]Here's an interesting problem. I have a character who needs to get from Milan Italy to Chicago Illinois. He needs to get from door to door in the space of seven hours.

QUOTE]

This question may be irrelevant and/or obvious and I may be stupid asking it - but have you taken the time difference into consideration, or do you mean exactly what you say - seven hours flight?

Because if you consider the time difference it's a whole new ball game.

[Mistook]

[QUOTE=Mistook]Here's an interesting problem. I have a character who needs to get from Milan Italy to Chicago Illinois. He needs to get from door to door in the space of seven hours.

QUOTE]

This question may be irrelevant and/or obvious and I may be stupid asking it - but have you taken the time difference into consideration, or do you mean exactly what you say - seven hours flight?

Because if you consider the time difference it's a whole new ball game.


The time difference is key! Milan is seven hours ahead of Chicago. So our man is last seen in Milan at 10PM on the 26th, and is next seen in Chicago at 10PM on the 26th.

Because most people don't think in terms of time zones, or can't calculate them without consulting charts, it seems impossible to everybody that our man can be in both places at once. Reports of him in Chicago are discounted as fantastical, but we later learn that it's possible.

This is the intended "beauty" of this part of the sub-plot.

[aruna]

[QUOTE=aruna]


The time difference is key! Milan is seven hours ahead of Chicago. So our man is last seen in Milan at 10PM on the 26th, and is next seen in Chicago at 10PM on the 26th.

Because most people don't think in terms of time zones, or can't calculate them without consulting charts, it seems impossible to everybody that our man can be in both places at once. Reports of him in Chicago are discounted as fantastical, but we later learn that it's possible.

This is the intended "beauty" of this part of the sub-plot.

Aha! I like that sort of thing!

[Jamesaritchie]

[QUOTE=aruna]


The time difference is key! Milan is seven hours ahead of Chicago. So our man is last seen in Milan at 10PM on the 26th, and is next seen in Chicago at 10PM on the 26th.

Because most people don't think in terms of time zones, or can't calculate them without consulting charts, it seems impossible to everybody that our man can be in both places at once. Reports of him in Chicago are discounted as fantastical, but we later learn that it's possible.

This is the intended "beauty" of this part of the sub-plot.

I wouldn't count of people not seeing through this instantly. Certainly the police, and anyone used to traveling, think in terms of time zones. Jet lag is caused by time zone differences, and hundreds of thousands of people suffer from this every day.

You don't really need charts. Anywhere in Europe is at least five hours ahead of chicago, and "arriving before you leave" was common with SST travelers going from London to New York.

I don't think many people would take being in Milan and Chicago at 10 on the the 26th as fantastic. The police certainly wouldn't, nor would anyone who's spent much time on jets, or who even thinks for a minute.

Or even someone who drives much. I can go back and forth an hour in time with a five minute drive. I can be in two states at the same time on the same date, or commit a crime in a neighboring state, and then be back home fifty-five minutes before the crime is actually committed. I don't think this would fool anyone, either.

If I do this during the witching hour, I can actually commit the crime a day early.

[TheNightTerror]

Here's an interesting problem. I have a character who needs to get from Milan Italy to Chicago Illinois. He needs to get from door to door in the space of seven hours.

I'd go with him getting a private flight, too. He quietly hires a pilot to fly a supersonic jet, they fly sub-sonic over land, supersonic over the ocean. If it happens at an odd time of the night, when there was no scheduled flight that could've gotten him there, it might throw people for a little while. ;) He'd definitely be found out, eventually, but he might have a tiny bit of time before it happens.

[Joni Holderman]

I think the question is not "Could it happen in real life?" but "Can I make it plausible to my readers?" :idea:

How about: Dirk, a friend from college who's now a hotshot Navy or Air Force test pilot, always bugging Hero to ride along?


They refuel in Greenland (Ireland and New York, if you must) and land at Ft.Sheridan (closed 1997ish) in suburban Highland Park.


Don't those military pilots break the sound barrier 'on training maneuvers?' (Translation: any damn time they want to? :) )


Ft.Sheridan was primarily used to transport prisoners to Ft.Leavenworth, and VIPs to the Midwest, so the staff was used to hush-hush mystery visitors and Hero avoids customs or a paper trail. It's more secure and closer to downtown than Midway or O'Hare. Dirk has a helicopter standing by (heliport closed 1998) to buzz Hero to Meigs field (closed April, 2003) on the lake right downtown, into a waiting limo.


Hero correctly points out that he couldn't have been in Chicago. Even if the flight to O'Hare only took 7 hours, taxiing to the gate, customs, and driving downtown would add another 2 hours, minimum. Checked baggage would add 40 minutes to an hour. There was some inclement weather that day, so flights were delayed an hour, and traffic another hour. (Love my hometown, but O'Hare experiences flight delays every time somebody sneezes, resulting in horrendous traffic.) Besides, his hotel in Milan was holding his passport the whole time! Now all your obstacles make Hero's contention he was in Milan more credible.


(I would love it if the millionaire was delayed because he didn't have exact change- 40 cents back then- for the O'Hare toll booth and couldn't get across traffic to the lane with an attendant. Alas, no toll booth from Ft.Sheridan or Meigs.)


In reality, the runway at Ft.Sheridan is too short, and you don't have enough fuel. You can invent a secret prototype plane, or you can ignore these glitches and endure the eye-rolls of military pilots, who will read the book anyway.

[Mistook]

[QUOTE=Mistook]

I wouldn't count of people not seeing through this instantly. Certainly the police, and anyone used to traveling, think in terms of time zones. Jet lag is caused by time zone differences, and hundreds of thousands of people suffer from this every day.

You don't really need charts. Anywhere in Europe is at least five hours ahead of chicago, and "arriving before you leave" was common with SST travelers going from London to New York.

I don't think many people would take being in Milan and Chicago at 10 on the the 26th as fantastic. The police certainly wouldn't, nor would anyone who's spent much time on jets, or who even thinks for a minute.

Or even someone who drives much. I can go back and forth an hour in time with a five minute drive. I can be in two states at the same time on the same date, or commit a crime in a neighboring state, and then be back home fifty-five minutes before the crime is actually committed. I don't think this would fool anyone, either.

If I do this during the witching hour, I can actually commit the crime a day early.


Yes, you are right. This particular case doesn't involve a crime or call any attention to most of the types of character's you've mentioned. I don't want to spoil too much, but our millionaire is a rock-star on a european tour. He is growing weary of the lifestyle and considering quitting the tour.

He escapes to Chicago for a day to "slum it" and hang-out with regular people as he did before his unexpected rise to fame. He's soul searching, and in Chicago, he's in disguise. A few locals are suspicious about his similarity to the famous star, but are thrown off by the seeming impossiblility of the idea.

He imparts information to them which amount to trade-secrets of the industry and is later found-out by higher-ups in the industry, who conspire to have him killed.

The idea is that the witnesses who talked to him in Chicago won't be believed by anybody, thanks to the star's own cleverness in covering up the unlikely trip. It will be up to others in the story to prove that their accounts are credible.